So I'm trying to teach myself bass guitar. Advice?

[sillybear25]

First off, I realize most people just call it a bass, but, this being xkcd, I wouldn't be surprised if I had some double-bass players show up to give me advice. =P
Also, I definitely want to teach myself. I'm a college student, and I'm spending enough money on tuition and housing as it is, so I definitely don't need to be spending any on lessons.
Finally, I already have some musical knowledge, so I'm not starting from nothing. I play the trombone, so I can read music, and I have a basic knowledge of "musicality." I also have a very (very!) basic knowledge of the guitar, though this will be the first stringed instrument that I really learn to play.
In summary: I read music and I've never learned a stringed instrument, but I have an understanding of how the thing works.

Basically, I'm looking for advice on where to start. What should I be doing to improve my technique? How can I improve my mental association between frets/strings and actual notes? Any advice would be appreciated.

EDIT: To clarify/reword/change what I'm asking, I really need to know which things I should be working on, rather than how. I know it's all going to come to practice and repetition, I just need to know what I should be practicing and repeating.

[Antimatter Spork]

I wouldn't be surprised if I had some double-bass players show up to give me advice. =P

This would have been me, actually.

To be honest, when people ask questions like this I always try to encourage them to get a teacher (even though you say that's out of your budget, I feel like I should say this). A lot of things in music are not easily picked up if someone's not actually there showing you. Text sources, in particular, are really bad at conveying what something should sound like.

That said, I'll try to answer what questions I can.
To improve your technique: I don't really know what to tell you for this, since proper technique is one of the things that it's so essential to actually have a teacher for. If you're going to teach yourself, you have to be extremely careful with technique, since improper technique can easily lead to performance related injuries (think carpal tunnel or tendinitis) down the line. Watch closely (and really study) videos of people who have very good technique and try to really analyze and understand their motions. Don't try to do what they do at full speed right off the bat, slow everything down and make sure you're doing the motions right. Pay close attention to what your body is telling you, if something seems stressful, figure out a different way to do it. If you really want good technique, it shouldn't feel like you're exerting yourself or tensing any muscles, that sort of thing will provide big problems down the road (especially if you try to play quickly).

Improving mental association between strings/notes: The only real way to do this that I'm aware of is to learn a lot of music and really practice reading at sight. Get an etude book or something (I know there are many for upright that, while not designed for the bass guitar, would provide you with material which is primarily what you want here, but there are probably bass guitar oriented ones as well) and read through them. Do it with a metronome at a tempo you're comfortable with, and don't let yourself get hung up on one note until you get it right, focus on staying with the tempo and moving, since otherwise it will stay a thinking thing and not an instinctual one.

[sillybear25]

Well, thanks for the advice anyway; I had the feeling I'd get an answer like that, so I guess this sort of thing kind of carries over regardless of the instrument. Re: technique: I have watched a few instructional videos online, so I do have something to go on. Overall, I guess I just need a push in the right direction. I think that, to clarify the original question, I need more guidance on what exactly I should be working on, technique-wise, since pretty much everything comes down to either practice and repetition or watching/listening to someone who knows what they're doing. I think I'll add that to the OP.

[hawkmp4]

I play double bass and bass guitar
Two pieces of advice I can give without actually being there and showing you...
Respect the difference between a guitar and a bass guitar. A bass needs to be played as a bass and a guitar as a guitar. Don't try to take what you know from guitar to bass.
Also- play fingerstyle! Later, if you really really want to, you can start playing with a pick. I'm generally against playing with pick but definitely do not start with a pick. Playing fingerstyle allows you to feel how changing your angle, where along the string you pick, etc. affect your tone. This is important.

Oh. One more thing. You're NOT going to hurt the bass- try to push the string with your picking finger through and out the other side of the bass. Putting more force into it gives a much better tone and much better consistency.

[TheAmazingRando]

Practice scales. This seems boring but it does wonders as far as intuitively knowing where different notes are and where to go from where you're at. I play standard guitar, not bass guitar, but every time I find myself in a creative slump I check out a scale I'm not particularly familiar with it and focus on it for days, trying to see how many riffs I can get out of it. By the time I get tired of it and can't come up with something new, I've got dozens of different patterns that are now intuitive to me, and the muscle memory to go back to it whenever I want.

[AzraelBlack]

Don't settle for using a pick firstly.

Using your fingers opens up so much more possibilities. Using your fingers means that you have a variety of tones and playing styles suited for different styles of music.

Don't be afraid to even use three fingers in your finger tehcnique. I do, and it's an invaluable tool to my playing style. Just remember to always anchor your hand which means resting your thump on either a string or the pick up.

Also with your fret hand, try to use the one finger per fret rule. Which basically means, when your in a position, of four frets, using one finger for each fret no matter which string you're using. Keep your thumb placed behind the neck in the middle of the position.

And finally, just have fun playing. I've never bothered to sit down and practice scales over and over again. I just play all the time, my bass is constantly on me and my technique is great. Just have fun, don't turn playing bass into a chore, keep it as leisure an fun, you'll always get better if you keep playing.

[sillybear25]

First off, I'd like to say that I've actually had this bass about a year now, and noodled around on it on and off, but this is the first time I've dedicated myself to actually learning to play it. That said, I have some responses to your helpful advice:

Re: Pick vs. Fingers: I've tried it both ways, and I really prefer playing fingerstyle anyway. I don't really like the sound or feel of a pick, so I guess that's a good thing considering you're all advising against it. AzraelBlack said something about using more than just 2 fingers; before I actually looked into learning proper technique, I just kind of used whatever finger was most convenient, so I'm kind of already doing that.

Antimatter: I like your suggestion of using an etude book; given that the written range of the bass and trombone start at the same point (excluding trigger and pedal tones, not that you string players would necessarily know about those ), I might even be able to use some of my trombone etude books until I get around to buying a bass one. It's not ideal, but at least it's something to play.

hawkmp4: I totally respect the difference between the two instruments; the whole reason I picked up the bass was because I picked up the guitar and didn't totally like it. I knew that the playing style for the bass was significantly different, so I decided to try that instead.

[Antimatter Spork]

Antimatter: I like your suggestion of using an etude book; given that the written range of the bass and trombone start at the same point (excluding trigger and pedal tones, not that you string players would necessarily know about those ), I might even be able to use some of my trombone etude books until I get around to buying a bass one. It's not ideal, but at least it's something to play.

Pedal tones own and are pretty awesome.

The bass sounds an octave lower than written though, so it's not really a direct range correspondence, and I know that on the upright bassist it's possible to play a considerably wider range than most trombonists that I know can get on their instrument (though I've seen some people do completely ridiculous things with a trombone).

Also picks are good for a few uses, but if you can't play a bass without one you're doing it wrong.

[Midnight]

Honestly, the best way to associate fret/string coordinates or positions or whatever with actual notes is, in my mind, tablature. if you're reading a c major scale as written on music, that's sort of abstract compared to

|------------------2--4--5--------------
|---------2--3--5-----------------------
|---3--5--------------------------------
|---------------------------------------

and then you begin to associate that 3 at the start and that 5 at the end as "C".


But that could just be me--I only learned to read music in the past year or so, really. started with tab and playing by ear. i mean, i knew scales and could play chord changes in the school's jazz band, but I never actually got to reading the parts until fairly recently.

[hawkmp4]

I guessed you did because you tossed away guitar, but nothing hurts my ears more than a guitarist at heart trying to play bass xD
Tabs- Good to learn. I think that I learned my intervals on the bass and how they sound more by reading lots of tabs than reading sheet music.
Scales- Learn and understand the modes of the major scaled. Don't learn Dorian as a separate scale from Ionian. The way I was taught was to start at A on the E string. Go up Ionian, down Dorian. Up Phrygian, down Lydian. Up Mixolydian, down Aeolian. Back up Locrian and down Ionian, ending an octave higher. This is essentially playing all the modes in one key. Your ear will thank you for this. And you'll start to see patterns in music.
Play the scales in thirds. Don't pause at the top or bottom, and only play the top and bottom note once. It's difficult to get used to but this is a much better way to help your playing than traditional scales. The finger movements are much more like something you would see while you're actually playing. It's relevant.

[Antimatter Spork]

I hate tabs, but I really think that has more to do with my experience with the sort of people who read tabs and don't read standard notation than anything else.

Still though, if you can already read standard notation there's really no reason whatsoever to start using tabs.

[hawkmp4]

I hate tabs, but I really think that has more to do with my experience with the sort of people who read tabs and don't read standard notation than anything else.

Still though, if you can already read standard notation there's really no reason whatsoever to start using tabs.

Besides the fact that quite a bit of music is not strictly in one key, or any key for that matter. Chromaticism in popular music does not lend itself to standard notation.
That, and writing and sharing in tablature is much more convenient. Sure you CAN use programs like Finale to create images of the sheet music...
But why do that when it's faster to write it down in tabs and type it up in notepad/whatever-you-like-to-edit-plain-text-with?

A lot of pretentious people will whine about using tabs. You know standard notation. You won't be using it as a musical crutch- go for it.
Besides, if there's a song you want to play, and someone you know doesn't know how to play it, you'll need to learn tabs anyway.

[Antimatter Spork]

I hate tabs, but I really think that has more to do with my experience with the sort of people who read tabs and don't read standard notation than anything else.

Still though, if you can already read standard notation there's really no reason whatsoever to start using tabs.

Besides the fact that quite a bit of music is not strictly in one key, or any key for that matter. Chromaticism in popular music does not lend itself to standard notation.

This is just wrong, there's nothing in contemporary pop that is in any way beyond what is conventional in standard notation. There is music that goes beyond what standard notation is capable of, but it's not pop music.

That, and writing and sharing in tablature is much more convenient. Sure you CAN use programs like Finale to create images of the sheet music...
But why do that when it's faster to write it down in tabs and type it up in notepad/whatever-you-like-to-edit-plain-text-with?

Because tabs are an inferior form, since there's no real good way to notate rhythm, and they don't contain the harmonic implications that standard notation does. If I write up a lead sheet, I can give a copy of it to every member of (for example) a combo and they'll all be able to play the tune. If I write guitar tab, the drummer, keyboard player, singer, horn player, etc. won't know what the fuck unless they also play guitar.

A lot of pretentious people will whine about using tabs. You know standard notation. You won't be using it as a musical crutch- go for it.
Besides, if there's a song you want to play, and someone you know doesn't know how to play it, you'll need to learn tabs anyway.

I really don't see how that's true at all. I know a lot of musicians, most of whom don't play guitar or bass. With a few exceptions (most of whom are 10 years old), they can all read standard notation proficiently. The only ones who can read tabs are the guitarists.

[Midnight]

guh i wrote this huge response about how standard notation is better than tab but overall way less convenient for any beginning musician unless you're starting the instrument to play classical or jazz and you have money to buy sheet music or some kind of music library at your college that would allow you to borrow copies of songs.

However, as it goes, I hit backspace to replace a word and totally lost the page. ugh. regardless, the point stands. plus, if you already know musical notation, which you do from your trombone experience, it doesn't hurt to diversify--plus tab is the most logical and easy to learn system in the world, hehe.

the other thing i was going to add, in regards to technique, was to look for technique-teaching videos on youtube. if those aren't to your liking, just watch this over and over again. This man is your new god now, and you would kill a kitten for that bass.

[Antimatter Spork]

If you wanna play jazz invest in a Real Book, it's pretty cheap (for sheet music) and it's a really great resource to have for any musician.

[Midnight]

If you wanna play jazz invest in a Real Book, it's pretty cheap (for sheet music) and it's a really great resource to have for any musician.

a fifth edition is your best bet but they're tricky to find--they're the most complete one before copyright lawyers cracked down on the company, so everyone wants to get their hands on one. A cheaper and easier alternative is the sixth edition, which is the current one as far as I know; i have it and so does my bass teacher.

[sillybear25]

If you wanna play jazz invest in a Real Book, it's pretty cheap (for sheet music) and it's a really great resource to have for any musician.

I looked it up and got a Wikipedia result; it would indeed be a good investment, especially since, if I lose interest in the bass, I could still use it as trombone music. To quote Wikipedia, it sounds like "an indispensable resource for all aspiring and current jazz musicians." I will definitely look into getting my hands on one.

EDIT: It seems it's really easy to get digital copies of the fifth edition...
>_>
<_<

[hawkmp4]

I hate tabs, but I really think that has more to do with my experience with the sort of people who read tabs and don't read standard notation than anything else.

Still though, if you can already read standard notation there's really no reason whatsoever to start using tabs.

Besides the fact that quite a bit of music is not strictly in one key, or any key for that matter. Chromaticism in popular music does not lend itself to standard notation.

This is just wrong, there's nothing in contemporary pop that is in any way beyond what is conventional in standard notation. There is music that goes beyond what standard notation is capable of, but it's not pop music.

That, and writing and sharing in tablature is much more convenient. Sure you CAN use programs like Finale to create images of the sheet music...
But why do that when it's faster to write it down in tabs and type it up in notepad/whatever-you-like-to-edit-plain-text-with?

Because tabs are an inferior form, since there's no real good way to notate rhythm, and they don't contain the harmonic implications that standard notation does. If I write up a lead sheet, I can give a copy of it to every member of (for example) a combo and they'll all be able to play the tune. If I write guitar tab, the drummer, keyboard player, singer, horn player, etc. won't know what the fuck unless they also play guitar.

A lot of pretentious people will whine about using tabs. You know standard notation. You won't be using it as a musical crutch- go for it.
Besides, if there's a song you want to play, and someone you know doesn't know how to play it, you'll need to learn tabs anyway.

I really don't see how that's true at all. I know a lot of musicians, most of whom don't play guitar or bass. With a few exceptions (most of whom are 10 years old), they can all read standard notation proficiently. The only ones who can read tabs are the guitarists.

Yes, you CAN notate popular music with standard notation perfectly well. I'm saying it's EASIER to do it with tabs for bass or guitar. Having every other note an accidental doesn't really help readability though.
Yes, tabs don't give as much information as standard notation. That doesn't mean they're not incredibly useful in the right circumstances. They're a supplement to a recording or hearing someone else play it. Or just a reminder to yourself as to how you fingered a certain section.
Obviously, tab doesn't work in every case. Obviously, tab won't work for a horn section. No shit. It works for guitar and bass. (And other stringed instruments that aren't common enough that I feel the need to mention)
And what I meant by needing to learn tab anyway is...
Well. Find me a copy of the sheet music for any rock song for free. Now find me a tab version. The latter is a LOT easier.

EDIT: @Sillybear- A digital copy is nice, but if you really find yourself getting into this you'll probably want a print version. Especially for charts, it's nice to be able to write whatever you want all over it. Then you don't have to worry about printing out a particular song you need or having a computer when you play. Just a thought.

[achan1058]

Yes, you CAN notate popular music with standard notation perfectly well. I'm saying it's EASIER to do it with tabs for bass or guitar. Having every other note an accidental doesn't really help readability though.

This is even more wrong than everything that precedes it. There is a thing called a key signature in standard notation, you know. And no, pop music don't have much chromaticism, so the key signature will fit it perfectly well. At worse they might have a key change or 2, but you can get away with a key signature change if necessary. The real reason I can think of to learn tabs is because other people write in tabs.

[Antimatter Spork]

Yeah if you're notating tonal music (outside of maybe Wagner) and you've got an accidental on every other note, you're doing it wrong.

And generally for most rock songs it's really easy to find lyrics + chords without too much trouble, but even that is no good for someone who doesn't know the song (trust me on this one, I'm speaking from experience), since there's no indication of rhythm, meter, or phrasing (which you still don't have in tabs). Standard notation also has pretty easy ways to notate fingering and which string to play a given note on (since string players have been doing that for literally hundreds of years). Pretty much the only advantage to tabs is that they're easier to use electronically if you don't have software like sibelius or finale (though since you can do standard notation with a LaTeX extension or any number of other open-source alternatives (like lilypond), there's not even any real reason to do that).

Furthermore, there are quite a lot of rock/pop music published as lead sheets (or fake book type things), but I suppose if you really want to rip off the musicians you're covering and deprive them of what little royalties they actually get from publishing their music, go ahead and pirate tabs on the internet, sure.

[sillybear25]

I'd rather this not devolve into a "Tabs vs. Notation" war. I can read both, and I understand the advantages and disadvantages of both. I plan on using both. If you want to debate the merits of tabs and standard notation, please start a separate thread.

@hawk: I know I'll want to get a printed copy to play off of later, but for now, I'm doing my playing in a dorm room in front of my computer, so a digital copy is perfect for the time being.

@Antimatter: I actually have a whole book of scores for several pop/rock songs at home (Rolling Stone's 1000 greatest songs, the 1970's-1990's volume, in case you're curious) that I just remembered. I could totally use that.

[Antimatter Spork]

Yeah sorry, I kinda got sucked into a tabs v. notation derail there. I think I'm a little bitter from having been in a situation where I'm expected to form kids into a decent jazz combo and the guitarist and the bassist can't read music, so...

[hawkmp4]

@hawk: I know I'll want to get a printed copy to play off of later, but for now, I'm doing my playing in a dorm room in front of my computer, so a digital copy is perfect for the time being.

Ah. Then perfect
Oh. This is overlooked by many people (including me for far too long) but is very important. Learn to maintain and adjust your bass. Action, pickup height, intonation. Especially intonation. I didn't know that that could even be adjusted for years. Learning how to do that well is very much worth it. You COULD take it to a technician but that's not worth the money.