Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Chai Kovsky » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:21 am UTC

I mean, in space the Falcon would cream Serenity, but what about in an environment like St. Albans, where piloting skill and maneuverability clearly matters? It may be a draw in that situation because Serenity would be able just to get away or the Falcon would crash; it's not nearly as suited for planetary maneuvers because it's optimized for interstellar travel.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Berengal » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:39 am UTC

The Serenity is a big ass cargo ship. The falcon is a corvette, or in other words, a big ass fighter ship but still a fighter. The falcon could maybe even fit in the Serenity's cargo hold. I don't think the Serenity could outmanuver the Falcon.

Han shot first, but Mal seems to have the same tendency. I'm favoring the "getting drunk and picking a fight with some Aliance/Empire sympathizers" hypothesis.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby kwub » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:35 pm UTC

River Tam goes batshit insane. Kills them both effortlessly.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby ian » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:37 pm UTC

Chai Kovsky wrote:I mean, in space the Falcon would cream Serenity, but what about in an environment like St. Albans, where piloting skill and maneuverability clearly matters? It may be a draw in that situation because Serenity would be able just to get away or the Falcon would crash; it's not nearly as suited for planetary maneuvers because it's optimized for interstellar travel.


The falcoln is heavily modified and just as much a fighter as a freighter. I'm not sure why you think Serenity would be able to get away (to where?) or why the falcoln would crash. It's not as suited for planetary maneuvers as interstellar travel, but then Serenity isn't as suited for planetary maneuvers as it is interplanetary maneuvers. Serenity can't run, it can't hide, and the Falcoln has quad laser cannons that are going to rip to bit bits with one shot.


Timequake wrote:Ship battle: Really, this would be tough to compare. If they were both alone, then neither would be able to shoot (Serenity has no guns, the Falcon's guns aren't accessible from the cockpit(correct me if that part is wrong)) or do much to outmaneuver each other (Serenity's bag of tricks like the Crazy Ivan from the pilot episode require someone in the engine room, and the Falcon's strength isn't so much outmaneuvering other ships as it is safely flying through dangerous areas). So, we'll assume that both have their crew. (For the Falcon, this means both guns are occupied, presumably by Luke and Chewie) Wash is a far better pilot than Han. Serenity can outmaneuver the Falcon easily, especially with Wash and Kaylee working together. However, they'd have trouble avoiding the guns, which are more accurate and have a higher rate of fire than any ship Serenity has come up against (mainly Reavers, very few of which can keep up a steady barrage of gunfire, and even fewer of which can actually hit anything). I'd have to go with Solo in this one, because Serenity doesn't tend to fare well against significant firepower (disabled at the end of the battle on Mr. Universe's world).


1. The Falcoln's guns can be used from the cockpit, as can whatever missiles or torpedos it is currently armed with.
2. The Falcoln's maneuvability is very high, see the escapse from Hoth in Empire taking on two ISDs and the voyage through the second death star. It is far higher than anything that is suggested for Serentiy, which is after all a cargo ship, and much larger than the Falcoln.
3. I've seen nothing to suggest Wash is a better pilot than Han, and if we are including the books I'd say the weight is on Wash to provide evidence he's up to Han's standards rather than the other way round.
4. See 2, there is no way it can outmaneuver the Falcoln. Go fly it through a death star and see how far it gets.
5. You're correct about the guns, power outputs in star wars are ridiculously high and I doubt any ship in Firefly would survive very well, shielding is pretty much non-existent in Firefly as far as I know? And hulls don't appear to be made of anything special and are meant to be realistic, which means the Falcoln's laser's rather unrealistic energy levels are just going to punch right through.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby 2Hectic » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:58 am UTC

While the spaceship battle rages above...

In terms of a gun/hand battle, no ones has taken situational advantage into account. Han's "first shot" against Greedo and Mal's two against Dobson and the Operative both involved lulling the target into letting their guard down. Han managed to engage Greedo into a conversation, and although Greedo had his blaster out already, Han tricked him into lowering his guard, allowing his quick-draw to succeed. In Mal's encounter with Dobson, Dobson was not wary of an attack from Mal's quarter, and Mal managed to open the cargo door, shot Dobson in the face (the FACE!!!) while still walking, without Dobson pulling the trigger, and not miss a stride. And Mal's duel against the Operative was initiated when Mal opened fire before the operative was even able to blink.

In my opinion, Mal wins the quick-draw battle against Solo.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Chai Kovsky » Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:57 pm UTC

You also have to look at the relative training of the opponents: both Mal and Han succeeded in a quick-draw, but the Operative should have been more capable of avoiding the shot than Greedo. Both Mal and Han won their quick-draws, but Mal's opponent was more difficult to get the surprise on.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby 2Hectic » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:38 pm UTC

Next we should a debate on which one of them could drink more....
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Mimi » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:35 pm UTC

Well, to me the "who would do better in a gunfight" boils down to aim, not who draws fastest. Mal has amazing aim (in Serenity (the movie, not the episode) when he hits that guy being taken by Reavers? That was crazy.) and Han doesn't really show it.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby headprogrammingczar » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:14 am UTC

2Hectic wrote:Next we should a debate on which one of them could get more quoted on the internet.

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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Chai Kovsky » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:30 am UTC

Mimi wrote:Well, to me the "who would do better in a gunfight" boils down to aim, not who draws fastest. Mal has amazing aim (in Serenity (the movie, not the episode) when he hits that guy being taken by Reavers? That was crazy.) and Han doesn't really show it.

The issue of aim vs. draw is entirely dependent on distance. Both of them are just fine at point-blank, so the faster draw would be the important factor. At a greater distance or in more difficult shooting situations, Mal's greater aiming skill would become more relevant.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby ian » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:33 pm UTC

2Hectic wrote:While the spaceship battle rages above...

In terms of a gun/hand battle, no ones has taken situational advantage into account. Han's "first shot" against Greedo and Mal's two against Dobson and the Operative both involved lulling the target into letting their guard down. Han managed to engage Greedo into a conversation, and although Greedo had his blaster out already, Han tricked him into lowering his guard, allowing his quick-draw to succeed. In Mal's encounter with Dobson, Dobson was not wary of an attack from Mal's quarter, and Mal managed to open the cargo door, shot Dobson in the face (the FACE!!!) while still walking, without Dobson pulling the trigger, and not miss a stride. And Mal's duel against the Operative was initiated when Mal opened fire before the operative was even able to blink.

In my opinion, Mal wins the quick-draw battle against Solo.

Chai Kovsky wrote:You also have to look at the relative training of the opponents: both Mal and Han succeeded in a quick-draw, but the Operative should have been more capable of avoiding the shot than Greedo. Both Mal and Han won their quick-draws, but Mal's opponent was more difficult to get the surprise on.


So Mal is better on the quick draw because of who he fought? Uh...

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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:04 pm UTC

Sorry, is this even a competition? Lets observe the Solo method of flirtation:
Annoy, harass, pester, bully, somewhat forcibly seal the deal.
Lets observe the Reynolds method of flirtation:
Annoy, harass, pester, respect, admire, protect, be protected by, and oh hey, we are in love. Well, where do we go from here?

Mal wins. On every front. That's not to say Solo isn't cool, but he's entirely a product of 80's action heroes. His vulnerabilities are even masked in his lack of vulnerability (torture? carbonite? meh. Malcolm fucking DIED!). Mal is the product of developed story telling and a more mature writer who had history to work with. Sure, Solo set a good beginning to the space rogue, but Mal represents its current pinnacle.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Chai Kovsky » Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:37 pm UTC

ian wrote:So Mal is better on the quick draw because of whom he fought? Uh...

Look, Superman just broke that pencil, but crack!, I just broke this plank of wood! I am stronger than Superman!

Do you see?

Yes, but here's the problem: we only have one piece of evidence apiece, hardly enough to make an informed decision as to who is better at quick-draw. We do however, know that Mal succeeds at a higher-level quick-draw than does Han. Han, perhaps, would also succeed at that level, but we don't know because we have no canonical evidence. You cannot conclude from the given information that Mal is better at it than Han, but can maintain that Mal has demonstrated more skill.

There's plenty of evidence, on the other hand, demonstrating Superman's strength relative to yours.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby ian » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:21 am UTC

Go read some expanded universe and get back to me.

edit: hmm, that was maybe too harsh. however, There's plenty of evidence demonstrating Han's ability out there. If we are just going on the films, well then imagine what I said before about me and Superman was in a film. From that you could maintain I have demonstrated more strength, but not conclude I was stronger as you say. Yet there have been posts in this thread saying Mal is the better shot, I'm just saying you can't possibly know, which you seem to agree with.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Xbehave » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:58 am UTC

Chai Kovsky wrote: It may be a draw in that situation because Serenity would be able just to get away or the Falcon would crash; it's not nearly as suited for planetary maneuvers because it's optimized for interstellar travel.
Didn't Han fly it straight into a big worm, that my friend is F'ing awesome. I've only just started on firefly but Solo is more like Jayne than Mal, whereas Mal is unlikely to kill somebody unless necessary, Han isn't bothered by such ethics and would just shoot. So it all depends how the fight is started and where it is, if Mal can steal Han's gun before Han reaches for it then... Mal would still probably lose the fist fight, come on Han may not be a great fighter but most episodes of firefly I've seen start with the firefly crew losing a brawl.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby cephalopod9 » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:22 am UTC

Pa-Patch wrote:Crew fight is easily Mal. We don't have any reason to think a light-saber would be much protection against bullets, and definitely wouldn't cut it if he was shot at from both sides at once. Even if he was bullet-proof I still give River some pretty good odds, given that Luke has never really shown himself to be very good at fighting outside of deflecting lasers. The rest of the crew is a simple matter of multiple trained soldiers with guns versus an ape with a crossbow. Mal's side has a medic among their non-fighters, too.
What are we counting as "crew"? Princess Leia is a good shot, and seems like a decent match for River's intuition and mysterious powers. Simon could probably outsmart Luke, or else appeal to non-violence*. Chewbacca seems stronger than Jayne, and could probably take at least one gunshot wound. I picture them brawling for a while, then maybe getting drunk. Book tries to convert Obi-wan, and Zoe is preoccupied with breaking up arguments between Wash and Yoda (or maybe Zoe gets kidnapped by Ewoks)**. Meanwhile, Kaylee, Inara and the droids braid each others' hair and trade nail polishes.

Han approaches Mal brooding over a drink in a shady bar. They both casually get a feel for their surroundings as they chat. Mal notices Solo start to reach for his gun, and kicks a table at him pinning him against a wall. Han gets free before Mal can shoot him, they grapple briefly and are both disarmed, and... um, Mal's shirt gets torn. Then... there's more shooting.
The problem is it's all to dependent on the parameters of the fight.And because it all to quickly devolves into slash fiction...

*I can't make them fight, If I picture them together, they end up cuddling.
**there's an uneven number of main characters that I can think of.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:33 pm UTC

cephalopod9 wrote:Chewbacca seems stronger than Jayne, and could probably take at least one gunshot wound. I picture them brawling for a while, then maybe getting drunk. Book tries to convert Obi-wan, and Zoe is preoccupied with breaking up arguments between Wash and Yoda (or maybe Zoe gets kidnapped by Ewoks)**. Meanwhile, Kaylee, Inara and the droids braid each others' hair and trade nail polishes.


This made me laugh. I can see Wash and Yoda getting into a shouting match in which Wash speaks like Yoda and Yoda uses Wash metaphors.

I think Kaylee and Chewie would have a lot to mull over one another's respective engine rooms, and Inara would eye Leia's metal bikini jealously.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Powerintheverse » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:41 am UTC

Mal would shoot first. Han would jerk his head to the side in an unnatural way and then shoot Mal righteously proving he was a good guy who was only defending himself and not a badass smuggler.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Brooklynxman » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:46 am UTC

I was going to mention for crew chewy tears everyone but river apart. Then last post. Yeah, Han and Mal would get along to well to ever fight.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby chameleon » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:49 am UTC

LittleKey wrote:....the guy was cryogenically frozen and lived through it.


Aren't you supposed to live through it? Kind of the point of doing it.

Uriel wrote:...and mal isn't even a pilot....


Isn't he piloting the Serenity at the end of the film due to Wash getting skewered? That said, there isn't enough material to rate his ability.

Berengal wrote:The falcon could maybe even fit in the Serenity's cargo hold.


No way.


If it's one on one with no ships or crew, then I have to say Mal. There's just way too much evidence that shows he's more than capable in a fire or fist fight, and he has an enormous capacity for pain.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Spokomo » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:22 am UTC

Ok, so it seems to boil down to this;

Gunfight = Undetermined
Melee = Mal > Han
Spacefight = Han > Mal

I agree with the spacefight. Using the fact that the Serenity is a transport as a disqualification for the fight is unfair. Firefly(Serenity) class ships and the YT-1300(Millennium Falcon) serve the same primary purpose. You cannot rule out one section of a fight just because one of the teams has better equipment.

Not so sure about the Melee. Are we talking about a fist fight or any fight with melee weapons? I am not saying I am taking Han's side, but I am just not sure who would win. Han managed to keep himself out of melee in the movies, but he does have training in combat just like every Imperial Officer.

Gunfight. This one is a very close call. I think it is equally likely that either one would win, and that they would kill each other. They are both legendary for their pistol skills. Maybe Mal shows his a little more in the Series/Movie, but keep in mind the technology for making the movies is a lot better now. The EU books put Han as a much better marksmen/gunman than the movies.

A few other things I would like to debate;

Everyone seems to be forgetting in the Empire Strikes Back when Han got tortured by Darth Vader. DARTH VADER!! I appreciate the Russian Space Mafia, but they don't really stand up to the Dark Lord. So don't count Han out in Pain Tolerance.

As far as a crew battle goes, 2 things need to be defined; time line, and crew.

Time line, because the Star Wars characters grew and changed much more drastically than did the Firefly/Serenity characters. For example, if using Luke in the fight, is it A New Hope Luke, Return of the Jedi Luke, or EU New Jedi Order Luke. Each of them have vastly different abilities and skills.
As for crew, I personally consider the crew of the Millennium Falcon to be Han and Chewbacca, and the crew of the Serenity to be Mal, Zoe, Wash, and Kaylie. Everyone else were passengers. As such, I contend that the overall winner would be the crew of Serenity. Numbers have a huge play in this. I believe that Mal and Han would probably kill each other, shooting at exactly the same time. Jayne would be obliterated by Chewbacca, and Zoe would probably down him afterward. If she (and Wash and Kaylie) were unable to kill Chewbacca in the fist salvo (unlikely, but possible) Chewy would probably kill Zoe before they could take him down.

Apologies for this being so long.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby bobjoesmith » Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:31 pm UTC

lest we forget, Han solo was a long long time ago and mal is long long time after

meaning we have to let han and his tech age a few eons and then let them battle (he can stay as fit tho)
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:06 am UTC

Does Indiana Jones count? Or is that just Han Solo in the future, sort of, kind of?
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Magnanimous » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:55 pm UTC

Han definitely stands a chance against Mal, but River would drain his body of blood in 8.6 seconds. (Given adequate vacuuming systems.)
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Pesto » Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:16 am UTC

FrankManic wrote:I'm pretty sure they would get along famously, wander off to a canteen to get drunk, then go rob the local government something fierce.

I think they'd probably have a relationship like Han and Lando. They'd get along great, but they're too independent to be able to work together and would probably end up double crossing each other in some way, but still remain on good terms.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Obscure Omen » Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:13 am UTC

Spokomo wrote:I personally consider... the crew of the Serenity to be Mal, Zoe, Wash, and Kaylie. Everyone else were passengers.


This brings up two good points:

1) What is the definition of "crew"? Is it whoever has a definite job on the ship and is directly under the captain's command, or just whoever the captain considers to be his crew? In the former case, it seems to me that Book, Simon (pre-Serenity), Inara, and River (pre-Serenity) would be ineligible, since Inara rents out the shuttle, making her independent from Mal and his orders (in theory), and Book, Simon, and River are all technically passengers. In the latter case, everyone on Serenity would be "crew."

2) Are we talking about pre-Serenity or post-Serenity? Assuming we use the former definition of "crew," there are definitive changes in the ranks between the series and the movie. While Inara and Book were already disqualified for being independent of Mal/a passenger,
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Simon and River would have to be added to the ranks, since River is given a permanent position on the ship, implying that Simon would then stay on to be their official doctor. Not to mention Wash would be gone, and since we never actually see River show off her piloting skills, there's no way of knowing how well she compares to Wash, which then can potentially cast doubt into the space-fight.

I think we can all agree that whether or not River is able to participate in the battle can change the result drastically. (Or, at least I hope it can. Otherwise arguing this point would be beyond useless.)

This really shouldn't be this complicated. (Or perhaps I'm just nit-picking a bit too much.)
Also, I'm not going to even attempt to enter this debate beyond a discussion of semantics and the like; I know nothing about Han Solo, as blasphemous as it may seem.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Rubys » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:35 am UTC

Mal vs Han is irrelevant.
I want to see Luke vs River.
There's that comic about "River Tam beats up EVERYONE", right?
Well, this would be similar, but ten times better.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby -.Mateo.- » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:41 pm UTC

Rubys wrote:Mal vs Han is irrelevant.
I want to see Luke vs River.
There's that comic about "River Tam beats up EVERYONE", right?
Well, this would be similar, but ten times better.


Luke vs River:
The Force is nothing next to the power of a crazy teenage girl. Oh, and telepathic. crazy telepathic teenage girl

Mal vs Han:
I'd say Mal. But I now realize I have no arguments, I just know in my heart he is better. Oh. something horrible has happened. I think I might have just found god.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby BlackSails » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:10 am UTC

Han obviously has some talent with shooting things. Otherwise he would not have been chosen to lead a commando strike force against the death star shield facility.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby FuzzyPanda » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:56 am UTC

I'm going to take this argument outside skills and into the types of characters Han and Mal are:

While Serenity is a character driven story about the crew of a ship, Star Wars is a plot driven story about Luke Skywalker and his journey from outer rim farm boy to Jedi Knight. Star wars characters live and die depending on whether or not the plot needs them while the serenity crew must stay on the ship or the very nature of the story is changed. This breaks down with the movie "Serenity" which is plot driven, can be ignored as "Serenity" was a movie BASED on "Firefly" (if the reader disagrees, he or she must consider that one of the defining aspects of "Firefly" is as a sci-fi western, something not acknowledged by "Serenity"). Due to the nature of these two stories Malcom Reynolds must stay alive whereas Han is permitted to die. The "Firefly" plot must conform to Captain Reynolds and his crew while Han must conform to the plot of "Star Wars". Just as Captain Kirk will always outlive a Redshirt, Malcom Reynolds would outlive Han Solo if they were pitted in a fight.

Having considered that Mal must win in a fight with Han, we should now consider how they would actually interact:

Mal is a trained soldier and an honest man who has been pushed into a situation in which he survives by smuggling materials past the Alliance. Han is depicted as a dishonest character who found the easiest way to profit to be smuggling. From this we may assume that the honest Mal would be unlikely to respect the rogue Han. However, before assuming this we must älso remember that Mal hired Jain straight out of a highway robbery and, in the pilot episode, was able to trust Jain with his life. Despite his honesty, Mal is perfectly willing to associate himself with brigands and so if introduced to Han under favorable circumstances could form a friendship. The reader who believes that Han may be unwilling to trust Mal should consider that Han does not choose friends based on honesty, but on the basis of experience and distrust of the authorities. If Mal were to decide to trust Han, Han would be häppy to have such an ally.

To conclude: If pitted together in a fight, Han conforms to the needs of the plot which conforms to the needs of Mal - allowing for Mal to necessarily win in any form of combat. However, despite their different reasons for being smugglers and outlaws, Mal and Han would be compatible as friends or allies. Thus, depending on how they meet, Mal could either defeat Han or befriend him.

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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby bobjoesmith » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:38 pm UTC

FuzzyPanda wrote:I'm going to take this argument outside skills and into the types of characters Han and Mal are:

While Serenity is a character driven story about the crew of a ship, Star Wars is a plot driven story about Luke Skywalker and his journey from outer rim farm boy to Jedi Knight. Star wars characters live and die depending on whether or not the plot needs them while the serenity crew must stay on the ship or the very nature of the story is changed. This breaks down with the movie "Serenity" which is plot driven, can be ignored as "Serenity" was a movie BASED on "Firefly" (if the reader disagrees, he or she must consider that one of the defining aspects of "Firefly" is as a sci-fi western, something not acknowledged by "Serenity"). Due to the nature of these two stories Malcom Reynolds must stay alive whereas Han is permitted to die. The "Firefly" plot must conform to Captain Reynolds and his crew while Han must conform to the plot of "Star Wars". Just as Captain Kirk will always outlive a Redshirt, Malcom Reynolds would outlive Han Solo if they were pitted in a fight.

Having considered that Mal must win in a fight with Han, we should now consider how they would actually interact:

Mal is a trained soldier and an honest man who has been pushed into a situation in which he survives by smuggling materials past the Alliance. Han is depicted as a dishonest character who found the easiest way to profit to be smuggling. From this we may assume that the honest Mal would be unlikely to respect the rogue Han. However, before assuming this we must älso remember that Mal hired Jain straight out of a highway robbery and, in the pilot episode, was able to trust Jain with his life. Despite his honesty, Mal is perfectly willing to associate himself with brigands and so if introduced to Han under favorable circumstances could form a friendship. The reader who believes that Han may be unwilling to trust Mal should consider that Han does not choose friends based on honesty, but on the basis of experience and distrust of the authorities. If Mal were to decide to trust Han, Han would be häppy to have such an ally.

To conclude: If pitted together in a fight, Han conforms to the needs of the plot which conforms to the needs of Mal - allowing for Mal to necessarily win in any form of combat. However, despite their different reasons for being smugglers and outlaws, Mal and Han would be compatible as friends or allies. Thus, depending on how they meet, Mal could either defeat Han or befriend him.

-Summer Glau


translation: han would lose cause the plot doesnt need him thus the authors could kill him. however mal could possibly be han's friend based off both's backgrounds.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Stay_Puft_marshmallows » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:42 pm UTC

Let's imagine a plausible confrontation: they both want the same cargo, and -surprise!- almost walk right into one another as they approach it. It begins with words. Mal is the cleverer, but Han's got the swagger and the Wookiee. It looks like Solo claims the prize, but Mal distracts him and makes off with it. Neither's a trigger-happy moron, so the only way this ends in death is by accident - in Han's case he regrets it but pretty much shakes it off. In Mal's case, he gets REALLY mopey about it.

Constructing a 2-player game, each player can die or live.

Han dies, Mal dies: no one wins

Han dies, Mal lives: Mal depressed, does not win

Han lives, Mal dies: Han slightly perturbed, wins.

Han lives, Mal lives: Mal wins by making off with the cargo

(fourth outcome dependent on Han not having backup capable of disabling Serenity. Falcon could only destroy it and Han's not a sociopath)
text goes where?
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Woopate » Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:29 pm UTC

Results 1 - 10 of about 4,110,000 for Han Solo. (0.19 seconds)


Results 1 - 10 of about 2,490,000 for captain malcolm reynolds. (0.28 seconds)


American Idol style, Han Solo wins.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby HermanBlount » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:30 pm UTC

When the Millennium Falcon is captured by the Death Star, Han proceeds to fight his way down to the detention level. He then fights his way back to the docking bay and escapes with his ship.

When Serenity is captured by an Alliance Cruiser, Mal promptly surrenders.

This particular example makes Mal more comparable to C3PO.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Argency » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:20 am UTC

FuzzyPanda wrote:I'm going to take this argument outside skills and into the types of characters Han and Mal are:

While Serenity is a character driven story about the crew of a ship, Star Wars is a plot driven story about Luke Skywalker and his journey from outer rim farm boy to Jedi Knight. Star wars characters live and die depending on whether or not the plot needs them while the serenity crew must stay on the ship or the very nature of the story is changed. This breaks down with the movie "Serenity" which is plot driven, can be ignored as "Serenity" was a movie BASED on "Firefly" (if the reader disagrees, he or she must consider that one of the defining aspects of "Firefly" is as a sci-fi western, something not acknowledged by "Serenity"). Due to the nature of these two stories Malcom Reynolds must stay alive whereas Han is permitted to die. The "Firefly" plot must conform to Captain Reynolds and his crew while Han must conform to the plot of "Star Wars". Just as Captain Kirk will always outlive a Redshirt, Malcom Reynolds would outlive Han Solo if they were pitted in a fight.

Having considered that Mal must win in a fight with Han, we should now consider how they would actually interact:

Mal is a trained soldier and an honest man who has been pushed into a situation in which he survives by smuggling materials past the Alliance. Han is depicted as a dishonest character who found the easiest way to profit to be smuggling. From this we may assume that the honest Mal would be unlikely to respect the rogue Han. However, before assuming this we must älso remember that Mal hired Jain straight out of a highway robbery and, in the pilot episode, was able to trust Jain with his life. Despite his honesty, Mal is perfectly willing to associate himself with brigands and so if introduced to Han under favorable circumstances could form a friendship. The reader who believes that Han may be unwilling to trust Mal should consider that Han does not choose friends based on honesty, but on the basis of experience and distrust of the authorities. If Mal were to decide to trust Han, Han would be häppy to have such an ally.

To conclude: If pitted together in a fight, Han conforms to the needs of the plot which conforms to the needs of Mal - allowing for Mal to necessarily win in any form of combat. However, despite their different reasons for being smugglers and outlaws, Mal and Han would be compatible as friends or allies. Thus, depending on how they meet, Mal could either defeat Han or befriend him.

-Summer Glau


-Summer Glau


For a moment my heart leapt, but then my brain caught up. Now I'm just depressed.

Oh, and Mal wins. Wash has the final say on this one:
MAL
He's insane.

ZOE
I know it.

WASH
I mean... you've told the damn
stories. Saved you in the war. But
I... I didn't know...

ZOE
You mean Mal?

Wash nods.

WASH
He's crazy.

She looks at him, not sure if he's in shock or making any sense at all.

WASH (cont'd)
He wouldn't break, Zoe. And he kept
me from... I wouldn't have made it.
Gonna be a blank slate, gonna wear a white cape.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Arancaytar » Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:51 pm UTC

crazyjimbo wrote:Mal would start on a witty and very amusing speech. All attention would be on him and we'd all be thinking how cool and awesome he is. A few chinese expletives later and we'd be in love.

Han would shoot him.

(But Mal would still be cooler.)


But on DVD, Mal would shoot first.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Arancaytar » Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:56 pm UTC

Argency wrote:
FuzzyPanda wrote:I'm going to take this argument outside skills and into the types of characters Han and Mal are:

While Serenity is a character driven story about the crew of a ship, Star Wars is a plot driven story about Luke Skywalker and his journey from outer rim farm boy to Jedi Knight. Star wars characters live and die depending on whether or not the plot needs them while the serenity crew must stay on the ship or the very nature of the story is changed. This breaks down with the movie "Serenity" which is plot driven, can be ignored as "Serenity" was a movie BASED on "Firefly" (if the reader disagrees, he or she must consider that one of the defining aspects of "Firefly" is as a sci-fi western, something not acknowledged by "Serenity"). Due to the nature of these two stories Malcom Reynolds must stay alive whereas Han is permitted to die. The "Firefly" plot must conform to Captain Reynolds and his crew while Han must conform to the plot of "Star Wars". Just as Captain Kirk will always outlive a Redshirt, Malcom Reynolds would outlive Han Solo if they were pitted in a fight.

Having considered that Mal must win in a fight with Han, we should now consider how they would actually interact:

Mal is a trained soldier and an honest man who has been pushed into a situation in which he survives by smuggling materials past the Alliance. Han is depicted as a dishonest character who found the easiest way to profit to be smuggling. From this we may assume that the honest Mal would be unlikely to respect the rogue Han. However, before assuming this we must älso remember that Mal hired Jain straight out of a highway robbery and, in the pilot episode, was able to trust Jain with his life. Despite his honesty, Mal is perfectly willing to associate himself with brigands and so if introduced to Han under favorable circumstances could form a friendship. The reader who believes that Han may be unwilling to trust Mal should consider that Han does not choose friends based on honesty, but on the basis of experience and distrust of the authorities. If Mal were to decide to trust Han, Han would be häppy to have such an ally.

To conclude: If pitted together in a fight, Han conforms to the needs of the plot which conforms to the needs of Mal - allowing for Mal to necessarily win in any form of combat. However, despite their different reasons for being smugglers and outlaws, Mal and Han would be compatible as friends or allies. Thus, depending on how they meet, Mal could either defeat Han or befriend him.

-Summer Glau


-Summer Glau


For a moment my heart leapt, but then my brain caught up. Now I'm just depressed.


Summer Glau wouldn't spell him "Jain".

(... unless it were a code, like "älso" and "häppy".)
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby nowfocus » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:51 am UTC

He's doing the thing from the xkcd comic.

Remember we are comparing Malcom Reynolds v Han Solo, not Serenity versus the Millenium Falcon.

Which begs the question: beyond a really fast ship and some decent shots, what does Han really do in the star wars movies? He's never up to anything particularly clever beyond cutting open a beast to sleep in, and never has an awesome plan. Mal is consistently having to do more with less. He talks his way out of situations, he finds ways to even up unfair odds (see the final space battle of serenity), and he can actually win a hand to hand fight on his own. He's willing to sacrifice himself for his crew, and has actually been in a real war.

Now I ask you - who would you rather have on your crew - without their ship?
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Zarq » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:12 am UTC

nowfocus wrote:He's doing the thing from the xkcd comic.

Remember we are comparing Malcom Reynolds v Han Solo, not Serenity versus the Millenium Falcon.

Which begs the question: beyond a really fast ship and some decent shots, what does Han really do in the star wars movies? He's never up to anything particularly clever beyond cutting open a beast to sleep in, and never has an awesome plan. Mal is consistently having to do more with less. He talks his way out of situations, he finds ways to even up unfair odds (see the final space battle of serenity), and he can actually win a hand to hand fight on his own. He's willing to sacrifice himself for his crew, and has actually been in a real war.

Now I ask you - who would you rather have on your crew - without their ship?



Hmm:

Mechanic:
Hairy beast vs. extremely cute girl

Fighting:
guy who can move some stuff with his mind and can handle a lightsabre vs. Crazy (hot) girl who can kill you with her brain and can handle an axe AND a sword with ballerina-like grace

Pilot:
"I know" vs. "And we shall call this land... "This Land" "

Miscellaneous Entertainment:
Stuck up princess vs. space prostitute trained in the ways of love


Yeah, I'm going with the Firefly crew.
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Re: Malcom Reynolds vs Han solo

Postby Stay_Puft_marshmallows » Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:11 pm UTC

This is like arguing over whether you prefer the Isley Brothers version of Twist and Shout or the Beatles version. Two artists' take on the exact same material, and which one you prefer is entirely a matter of taste.
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