Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

[Nyarlathotep]

In my humble opinion the greatest American produced cartoon on television today. Hands down. The animation is gorgeous, the plot is engaging, the world is well-constructed, the characters are all lovable in their own wacky ways... mmmmmm <3

Any idea when the new season starts? I can't wait.

Also, Toph is amazing.

[kcr]

Oh man, I really like this show. It's so much smarter than most cartoons, and heck, most live-action tv. I'm excited for the third season too, but I'm not sure when it starts. There's a preview for it on youtube though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yvhgiKK74A&eurl=

[Nyarlathotep]

Argh, I just realized I'm going to be in Japan when the new season starts. Sadness!

[Mighty Jalapeno]

I've seen one episode, but it was... surprisingly good. I know SFA about the series, though, so I might get into it in a few months / years, when I can get DVDs, or when it starts over.

[une see]

I love this show! One of my favorites...mainly because I want to be a bender, so hard.

*cough* Anyways. I think it manages to blend in so many different genres really well: humor, action, romance, etc. If it was just a serious ass-show, then it definitely wouldn't be as good.

Meanwhile, that trailer...was interesting. I couldn't really see what was going on half the time, but from the looks of it, things are about to get serious. I think season three's coming in...September maybe? Or October. Not really sure.

[Swordfish]

This is a pretty awesome show. I was a bit skeptical at first, but my roommate was able to knock that out of me... good thing too.

My favorite thing about this show is the fighting. Each of the elements is based off of an actual martial art, and the styles were matched up quite nicely. Tai Chi for water bending was an especially good match in my opinion (though that might have something to do with the fact that, of the arts that bending uses, I'm most familiar with Tai Chi).

The use of bending is also well integrated into the art. It's not like a Dragon Ball Z thing where you point your hand at someone for the specific purpose of shooting something at them. It's like they're performing an actual useful strike and the bending is a byproduct of their attack.

And that trailer was awesome, my roommate was just freaking out about it when I sent him the link.

My favorite character has got to be Iroh (his voice actor died ). He's such a laid back guy that when he gets down to fighting, it's awesome. Last episode of Water comes to mind: "Whatever you do to that fish I will unleash on you ten-fold!"

Anyway, awesome show (did I use awesome enough?). Can't wait for season three.

[Belial]

My favorite thing about this show is the fighting. Each of the elements is based off of an actual martial art, and the styles were matched up quite nicely. Tai Chi for water bending was an especially good match in my opinion (though that might have something to do with the fact that, of the arts that bending uses, I'm most familiar with Tai Chi).

Indeed. It also makes the fights really pretty.

Random Trivia: Did you notice that Toph uses a completely different style from the rest of every earth bender ever?

...Because I sure as fuck didn't, until somebody pointed it out.

[Swordfish]

Random Trivia: Did you notice that Toph uses a completely different style from the rest of every earth bender ever?

...Because I sure as fuck didn't, until somebody pointed it out.

Correct, Earth Bending is Hung Gar, and Toph does Chu Gar Praying Mantis.

Something I forgot to add in my last post. As much as I like the anime FullMetal Alchemist, the element bending in Avatar (earth, most specifically) is everything the fighting in FullMetal should have been.

[2DMan]

I have so much love for this show, really well made, developed characters and the combat/Bending stuff is (as many have noted) awesome.

On the FMA point, though, Bending is very different from Alchemy. I rather liked the Alchemy that FMA used, although there were times when it felt too close to the magic it wasn't supposed to be instead of the science it was (even ignoring the whole 'nearly free energy from the Gate' factor for the moment). Bending is still way cooler, though. Watching the various Benders wield their elements is so stylish. I'd say my favourite of the combat styles has to be Aang's, because of that really neat way he stands right up against the opponent, then simply twirls around them. Awesome.

[__Kit]

LOL Just reminds me of a guy in my class today doing water-bending.

[Belial]

Something I forgot to add in my last post. As much as I like the anime FullMetal Alchemist, the element bending in Avatar (earth, most specifically) is everything the fighting in FullMetal should have been.

You know, you're the second person I've known to compare Avatar with FMA.

The first was some jerkoff at an anime convention, who saw our cosplay group walking past and decided to mouth off that Avatar was just a cheap ripoff of FMA.

We spent the rest of the con trying to figure that one out. Is there some parallel that I missed? I admit I'm only passingly familiar with FMA, but I didn't see any.

[Swordfish]

I think the comparison comes from the fighting, at least it does for me. Alchemy when used in combat could be kinda of similar to bending in Avatar. The thing about Alchemy is that the Alchemists could pretty much do anything they could imagine with any material that they wanted, including fire, earth, air, and water. So combat in FMA often took the form of more or less throwing these and more materials (most often fire and earth) at each other and could resemble bending. In particular, a favorite move of the main character was to created giant spikes or pillars out of the ground and hurl them at his opponent.

The main problems about the action in FMA is that:

A) There wasn't enough of it. A 50 episode series and I can only think of maybe three good fights.

And

B) Alchemy was rarely well integrated into the fighting. Often times it was simply used to make a weapon for the fight (such as the Ed turning his steel prosthetic arm into a sword). When it was actually utilized against an opponent it was often done very clumsily and didn't fit in with the flow of the fight. Also that move would usually signify the end of the fight.

Avatar, however, has the bending very seamlessly integrated into the fighting, and, as such, there's always a rock in the air, or fire shooting at someone, or something like that. The fights also just look better because they have a martial arts consultant. The characters look like they know what they're doing when it comes to fighting, which is a feeling I only got from a choice few characters in FMA (Al to be most specific).

[Belial]

Indeed.

I think one of my favorite fights in the series has to be the one in the Bato episode, where Zuko and Aang are standing on the rim of a well, and fighting around in a circle on the edge. Almost the entire fight is composed of blocks and redirections, with bursts of wind and fire going off in different directions. It just looked *awesome*.

[Nyarlathotep]

Aang's style is my favourite. I've always been a fan of misdirective combat and Air is my favourite element, so... glee.

I don't like Earthbending, but I do love Toph's style.

It's interesting to me, becuase when I used to take Taijutsu we actually did separate techniques into four elements. I was always a Wind-Water person, which is all about being where the opponent isn't, and using the opponent's motions against them.

[Kawa]

In my second semester freshman year, my boyfriend played in an Avatar-based D&D campaign. (Custom classes for each type of bender, plus a Druid who swears she isn't a Druid! Really!) Due to some bad rolls in the first session my boyfriend then became rather perpetually emo. Poor thing.

[Belial]

Aang's style is my favourite. I've always been a fan of misdirective combat and Air is my favourite element, so... glee.

In contrast, I am such a huge fan of firebending, I can't even explain.

[2DMan]

Aang's style is my favourite. I've always been a fan of misdirective combat and Air is my favourite element, so... glee.

Total agreement. Airbending rocks all things. Or, y'know, airs all things.

I think the comparison comes from the fighting, at least it does for me. Alchemy when used in combat could be kinda of similar to bending in Avatar. The thing about Alchemy is that the Alchemists could pretty much do anything they could imagine with any material that they wanted, including fire, earth, air, and water. So combat in FMA often took the form of more or less throwing these and more materials (most often fire and earth) at each other and could resemble bending. In particular, a favorite move of the main character was to created giant spikes or pillars out of the ground and hurl them at his opponent.

I don't really agree. Alchemy is much more combat-limited than Bending and much less fluid, so it simply wouldn't be possible to wield it in combat as perfectly as the Benders do. With alchemy you must be in (sometimes indirect) contact with that which you're transmuting, and you can't really transmute it continuously as it attacks. Also, the act of transmuting requires full attention and can't really be worked into the middle of a martial arts move. They're very different styles - Bending is like a handgun in a martial arts fight, while Alchemy is like a rocket launcher. You can work a pistol into your close combat duelling, but to use the rocket launcher you've gotta back off and aim carefully (neither of these are meant in terms of firepower, by the way, only in terms of the way they can be used).

[Spot]

The animation is gorgeous, the plot is engaging, the world is well-constructed, the characters are all lovable in their own wacky ways... mmmmmm <3

I agree with this in every way. The new season starts September 21.

Indeed.

I think one of my favorite fights in the series has to be the one in the Bato episode, where Zuko and Aang are standing on the rim of a well, and fighting around in a circle on the edge. Almost the entire fight is composed of blocks and redirections, with bursts of wind and fire going off in different directions. It just looked *awesome*.

Yes. YES. That was crazy cool! The action in Avatar is always intense and very engaging; it's never "just another fight scene" like a lot of other shows. Also, I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but the music in the fight scenes is especially good and adds a lot to the overall excitement. I'm talking about that fast strumming of a string instrument.

[PatrickRsGhost]

I don't really watch the show, but the few episodes I have seen, or portions of episodes, I liked. I may have to sit down and watch a few full episodes to really reach a verdict.

[Belial]

Also, I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but the music in the fight scenes is especially good and adds a lot to the overall excitement. I'm talking about that fast strumming of a string instrument.

The music in general is just *awesome*. They do dramatic really well.

I agree with this in every way. The new season starts September 21.

During the meet-up weekend.

I will be retreating back to my room and catching one of the inevitable reruns on saturday. This is not in question.

I don't really watch the show, but the few episodes I have seen, or portions of episodes, I liked. I may have to sit down and watch a few full episodes to really reach a verdict.

As it *is* a story with a defined arc, I'd suggest starting from the beginning.

[Belial]

Bump!

I will be retreating back to my room and catching one of the inevitable reruns on saturday. This is not in question.

Apparently, it *should* have been in question, because I totally missed it. I torrented it later, though

Has anyone else been catching the new season? Any musings? Make use of spoiler tags as necessary.

-I'm *really* digging on the continued duality and place-switching between Aang and Zuko, with the final season bringing Aang to where Zuko was in the first season, humbled and defeated, but bound and determined to regain his honor; and vice versa with Zuko returned and celebrated, but riddled with doubts in himself.

-As for the whole Zuko good/evil issue, I'm really hoping he's verging towards a good character. It occurs to me that he is in the ideal position to completely *wreck* the fire nation when the Day of Black Sun arrives. "Oh look. Firebending doesn't work. Remind me who in this family knows how to fight with *anything* other than fire? What's that? It's just me? Oh good."

-I'm also digging the power arc on the characters. As we near the end, Toph and Katara are just *ridiculous* in power. It's starting to remind me of a middlingly high-level D&D campaign, and that makes me smile

-Jesus Christ, Azula is better at this subterfuge thing than Zuko is. The way she set him up was genius.

[Jesse]

I am watching the entire first series, it is so good. Everyone go watch this.

[kcr]

Two episodes into the new season and I still love it. Tonight was great.

Aang the dancing maniac is so cute, and the music both in the school band and dance party scenes was great. Sokka with facial hair is amusing, Toph keeps on being a badass, Katara didn't really do much but her new Fire Nation look is awesome. Her and Aang I guess are the official couple now, I guess? Not surprising. The Fire Nation school kids were adorable. I loved that one girl, and the kid who kept hiding in his collar, like some sort of turtle... XD.

Azula's an excellent villain-so so darkly brilliant. And Zuko continues to be a jerk, but I love him and am waiting for his redemption. He and Mai are cute, if a bit unbelievable. Annnnd, last but not least, because he is my favorite character ever, poor Iroh. I hope he gets back into the action soon, and reconciles with Zuko as well.

[Belial]

-"I love you when you hate the world!"
"I don't hate you"
"I don't hate you either"
::sloppy makeouts::

PURE WIN. Fuck you, Zutara fandom.

-During the Iroh scene, my roommate felt the need to say, in Iroh's voice, "I wonder....if I should tell him...my voice actor is dead...."

-I'm really not sure what to make of Iroh. I would have expected him to perk up when Zuko said he needed advice.

-In light of recent events, I will need to start referring to people as "hotman". Anachronistic slang from a fictional universe in a children's show for the win

[une see]

Wait, what? The new season of Avatar began already?? Wow, I totally missed this.

I thought it was going to premiere in the beginning of next year...?

Dammit! I actually have a lot of work to do. But of course I'm going to not do any of it and catch up on the Avatar episodes I missed!

Edit: Just watched the first two, and I loved it!

When did Zuko and Mai get together though? Seems a little sudden, but oh so sweet. And Aang and Katara=yes.

Sokka's hilarity value just keeps increasing...and the dancing was awesomesauce. Although Aang with hair...a little weird.

Poor Iroh. He's such a tragic character. He feels betrayed by the one person in the world who he still loved/loved him, namely Zuko. I hope there will be a Zuko/Iroh revolution sometime soon, wherein Zuko busts Iroh out of prison, and they kick ass. (What else?)

Meanwhile...Azula has got to be one of the best villains ever created. She's so smart, and ruthless, and just all-around bamf. (That setting up Zuko thing was genius.) I hope she doesn't make a stupid mistake soon, as all villains seem to do after a while.

[Belial]

Meanwhile...Azula has got to be one of the best villains ever created. She's so smart, and ruthless, and just all-around bamf. (That setting up Zuko thing was genius.) I hope she doesn't make a stupid mistake soon, as all villains seem to do after a while.

Spoiler:

One could argue that she's already made a stupid mistake. She's controlling Tai Lee and Mai almost exclusively through fear, when she *knows* she has a moment of total weakness upcoming. I can see them turning on her pretty fast as soon as she's no longer a threat, and they would have been her *only* hope of surviving Black Sun since they're both skilled non-bender combatants.

Allowing (and even encouraging) Zuko and Mai to get together was a pretty huge mistake, too, as Zuko is one of the biggest threats to her (since he has some non-bending combat skill as well, and is of questionable loyalty), and letting him seduce one of your bodyguards is a bad call.

Now, what I want to know is, what the *fuck* happened to Suki and the Kyoshi Warriors?

[kcr]

Spoiler:

Mai is definitely going to turn on her at some point. That evil glare when she interrupted the Zuko-Mai makeout session has to mean something.

I'm hoping that if Suki and the other warriors were injured/dead we would've heard about it by now. But they really need to make an appearance soon.

This new spoiler code thing is freaking awesome.

[cephalopod9]

ooh, I missed the second episode. How do I do this "torrent" thing? (I didn't see them on turbo-nick, but the website kind of gives me a headache).

Spoiler:

The season premier was so sad. The characters are all so great.

I think Zuko wants to be good, he just doesn't know how. You have to take into consideration how he's grown up. I mean it's his family, his country and his identity.

Did you notice the turtle-ducks? they like Zuko, but run away from Azula. She's pure evil. But again, it's at least partly her environment, and it's a pretty realistic/beleivable pure evil.
I think it's more than outright fear that keep Ty Lee and Mai around. Even if it's mostly fear, there seems to be some loyalty and friendship under there somewhere. I mean, they grew up together, and beyond that Azula's royalty. How many girl's would seriously turn there backs on a princess that easily? Sure it's easy to say just leave her, but not only is she extremely charismatic, there's some pretty deeply rooted ties.
I don't know about Mai and Zuko. Makes more sense than Katara and Zuko so far. I think Katara tries too hard to be motherly for that to work, and they've both got loads of emotional baggage. Also, it would make sense that Azula would want Mai and Zuko together, because it's kind of like getting Zuko to settle down. Y'know?

[Okita]

Spoiler:

Mai is definitely going to turn on her at some point. That evil glare when she interrupted the Zuko-Mai makeout session has to mean something.

I'm hoping that if Suki and the other warriors were injured/dead we would've heard about it by now. But they really need to make an appearance soon.

Spoiler:

Or it could just be that Mai is under orders from Azula to "entice" Zuko. I mean, I doubt Azula would like one of her personal attendants to go to the side that she knows is going to end up getting screwed pretty soon.

[Belial]

Spoiler:

Or it could just be that Mai is under orders from Azula to "entice" Zuko. I mean, I doubt Azula would like one of her personal attendants to go to the side that she knows is going to end up getting screwed pretty soon.

Spoiler:

Orders or no, though, it's been made pretty clear in flashbacks and such that Mai has feelings for Zuko, even if they're just silly crush feelings. Of the two lackeys, she's also the one Azula has the least hold on from what I've seen: Tai Lee is scared of Azula, Mai is just along for the ride and mildly averse to being set on fire. I'd call her a wildcard.

[une see]

Whoo! Spoiler tags! Totally didn't even notice we had these.

Spoiler:

I don't think Ty Lee or Mai would actually turn on Azula that quickly. Definitely not Ty Lee, but perhaps Mai since she and Zuko seem to be getting all hot and heavy, and if Zuko doesn't end up "betraying" Azula on the Day of Black Sun, I will be severely disappointed.

Zutara was always a pretty retarded pairing. More logical than some, but less logical than many others. Katara/Sokka < Zutara < Kataang, for example. I actually did read a Katara/Sokka fanfic once, which just blew my mind. *shakes head sadly*

But yes, what did happen to the Kyoshi Warriors? If Suki actually died, Sokka's going to get the biggest "protect all females" complex (which he kind of already has), and it would just suck.

[Belial]

Zutara is especially retarded because the creators have said it will never, ever, ever happen. In fact, when questioned, they said "I think you have to worry more about Appa and Momo getting together"

Spoiler:

As for the Kyoshi warriors, in the earth king episode, Ty Lee said they "beat them up and took their clothes", which gives me hope that they're still alive, since she didn't say "killed them". So... ::fingers crossed::

[cephalopod9]

Spoiler:

.... Am I the only one who does not know what happened to Zuko's mom? I know that it was sad, but I don't remember/ didn't notice if they explained or not.

[Belial]

Spoiler:

It wasn't explained. She just "went away".

One theory circulating is that, after Firelord Azulon decreed that Ozai's son would be killed to teach him a lesson for disrespecting Iroh's loss, that Ursa stepped forward and sacrificed herself instead of Zuko. *That* revelation would do a lot for convincing Zuko that his family are dicks.

It's also possible she just *left*, because her family are evil. Either way.

[Okita]

Spoiler:

It wasn't explained. She just "went away".

One theory circulating is that, after Firelord Azulon decreed that Ozai's son would be killed to teach him a lesson for disrespecting Iroh's loss, that Ursa stepped forward and sacrificed herself instead of Zuko. *That* revelation would do a lot for convincing Zuko that his family are dicks.

It's also possible she just *left*, because her family are evil. Either way.

Spoiler:

Funny plot twist. Zuko's mum teaches Aang how to bend Fire. But I think we all can see how awesome it would be if Iroh was the teacher.

[SteelDraco]

Spoiler:

It wasn't explained. She just "went away".

One theory circulating is that, after Firelord Azulon decreed that Ozai's son would be killed to teach him a lesson for disrespecting Iroh's loss, that Ursa stepped forward and sacrificed herself instead of Zuko. *That* revelation would do a lot for convincing Zuko that his family are dicks.

It's also possible she just *left*, because her family are evil. Either way.

You know, that’s interesting. That’s not how I saw that at all.

Spoiler:

I think Zuko’s mother killed Firelord Azulon. All this plays out in the backstory of the episode “Zuko Alone.” Here’s the sequence of events that we get there. I’ll skip my speculation for now, and just describe what actually happens on screen.

1. Iroh’s son is killed in the Siege of Ba Sing Se. He abandons the war, and returns home in disgrace.
2. As a result of his brother’s actions, Ozai, Zuko’s father, suggests that he should be the next Firelord, since Iroh’s bloodline has ended.
3. Firelord Azulon is offended by this presumption, and declares that Ozai will pay a price, and will know his brother’s pain.
4. According to Azula, Azulon orders Ozai to sacrifice HIS first-born son, as Iroh did. That’s Zuko. As with anything that Azula says, this is not to be trusted, but it does fit in with everything else that happens in the episode.
5. That night, Zuko’s mother comes to him, obviously sad. She tells him that whatever happens, she loves him, and that he’d have to be strong. And then she leaves.
6. The same night, Firelord Azulon dies. Before he dies, he declares that Ozai will be the next Firelord, instead of Iroh.
7. Zuko’s mother disappears. She’s barely mentioned again, but there is a strong current of dislike from Ozai to Zuko from that point on.

This sequence of events suggests to me that Zuko’s mother killed Firelord Azulon, in order to protect her son from Azulon’s anger at Ozai. I think she found out that Azulon was about to publicly order Ozai to kill Zuko as a punishment. She realized she had to act, because she knew that Ozai would do it, since he preferred his daughter, Azula, anyway.

This part is particularly pure speculation, but I think it fits – I think that Ozai killed his wife just after she killed his father. He might not have known who it was, though. I think he came into his father’s rooms, and saw someone stabbing or poisoning Azulon, and he blasted them dead on the spot. Only after this did he realize what he had done. In an attempt to salvage things, Ozai says that he was there when Azulon died ‘of natural causes,’ and that his deathbed wish was that Ozai be the next Firelord.

So he gets what he wants – kind of. His wife is dead, though, and he can’t ever explain what happened to her to anyone. If he really loved his wife, the guilt over her death would explain why he hates Zuko so much. After all, if it wasn’t for Zuko, he would still have his wife, and his favored child would be the heir. We’ll see how well this theory survives, now that we’re getting into more family stuff with Ozai, Zuko, and Azula in Season 3.

[Belial]

Spoiler:

Okay, *that* would be awesome, and I kindof hope you're right. Not sure about Ozai killing Ursa, she could just as easily have run off and never been seen again after the murder. But I really like the idea of her killing Azulon. This theory pleases me.

See, I had assumed that Ursa had either left, or sacrificed herself, and that *Ozai* had pulled a Commodus-from-Gladiator, killed his father, and had himself declared firelord. Your theory...clicks together a lot more neatly.

[Swordfish]

Spoiler:

Okay, why do so many people have a Zuko and Katara pairing in their heads? They might have had one "moment" where she offered to heal his scar, but Katara doesn't do well with guys who turn out to be dicks (i.e. Jet). Anyway, I've enjoyed both of the episodes so far, and I really liked when Aang and Katara went to dance and basically just sparred.

Anyway, does anyone else have a feeling that, when the time comes for Aang to fight the Fire Lord, it'll be Fire Lord Azula, not Ozai?

[une see]

Spoiler:

Okay, why do so many people have a Zuko and Katara pairing in their heads? They might have had one "moment" where she offered to heal his scar, but Katara doesn't do well with guys who turn out to be dicks (i.e. Jet). Anyway, I've enjoyed both of the episodes so far, and I really liked when Aang and Katara went to dance and basically just sparred.

Anyway, does anyone else have a feeling that, when the time comes for Aang to fight the Fire Lord, it'll be Fire Lord Azula, not Ozai?

Why do so many people have a Snape/Hermione pairing in their heads? Because they're fucking insane.

Many, many, many pairings in fanfiction are completely illogical and so, so wrong. Zutara just happens to have *one* instance that maybe supports it, so people go crazy over it. And it's not incest or anything, so. All good. (Although the Sand siblings pairing for the Naruto fandom seems to be pretty popular...)

Spoiler:

I really hope Azula kills her father. That'd be badass. Although they seem to have a pretty good relationship. Maybe Azula actually...loves her father??? *dies of shock* Actually, has anyone noticed that, other than the setting up Zuko thing by telling Ozai he killed Aang (which was genius), Azula's actually been kind of nice to her brother? Weird, I know.

What I want to know is...why did the Aang Gaang get Fire Nation clothes if they were just going to keep on living in that cave? I mean, now they can't, of course (busted by the principal!), but if they were still going to be living in a cave...there was really no point in disguising themselves.

I foresee this chain of events. First: taking Fire Nation clothes. Next: taking a Fire Nation house. Finally: taking the Fire Nation!

[cephalopod9]

How do I watch episodes I missed? :waves arms erratically:

Spoiler:

Azula was also "being nice" to him when she was trying to capture him and bring him back on her ship. She knows family is important to him, and she's going to use that to her advantage. In short, it's a tarp.

I'm wishing I were less ignorant of Asian mythology and stories.
A food deal of the speculation so far sounds sort of like Shakespearian tragedy and other western stuff, and I can't tell if that's appropriat or not.

Is it just me, or do they like to toy with us? What's-his-name, sensitive earth bender boy and his father were "taken by the Fire Nation", and were later rescued from a prison ship. Meanwhile Sokka and Katara's mom was "taken by the Fire Nation" and I'm pretty sure she died. I have to say, it's pretty great story telling. I loved the parralel structure in 3-1.
Poor Zuko. He's like an anti-villian; he's good, but on the wrong side.

Zuko and Katara could possibly, maybe, sort of, kind of, be a couple some day, but yeah, there's no real reason to think it'd happen anytime soon.

What about Toph and Sokka? I kind of think that's been hinted at, a little bit, that Toph likes him, but I guess it could be in a best friend or big brother kind of way...