Draw Mohammad Day

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Hawknc, Zamfir, Prelates, Moderators General

Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Ixtellor » Thu May 20, 2010 12:48 pm UTC

(The other thread is about Pakistan -- I thought this was more relevant and to the point)

'Everybody Draw Mohammed Day'

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/05/ ... ammad-day/

[
Spoiler:
quote]Everybody Draw Mohammed Day!" began last month as the brainchild of a Seattle-based cartoonist named Molly Norris, who was appalled by Comedy Central's decision to censor an episode of "South Park" that depicted Muhammad in a bear costume.

As a way to protest the network's decision -- which came after an Islamic extremist website warned of retaliation against the show's creators, Matt Stone and Trey Parker -- Norris created a poster with likenesses of Muhammad as a domino, a teacup and a box of pasta.

She declared May 20 "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day!" -- and her efforts quickly went viral, spawning several Facebook pages with thousands of followers dedicated to the event. [/quote]

While I am generally against dickish behavior, I think that freedom of speech needs to triumph in this case. I was a big supporter of Maplethorp and the right to create anti-christian art, so I must be in favor of the right to draw and present Mohammad.

I hope it is a big success and we can finally break this taboo and not let a religion dictated to the rest of us what we can and can't say/think/express.
The Revolution will not be Twitterized.
User avatar
Ixtellor
There are like 4 posters on XKCD that no more about ...
 
Posts: 3059
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:31 pm UTC

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Glmclain » Thu May 20, 2010 12:54 pm UTC

Made this first period, I believe my History teacher is helping me support this.

Image

To all people who are offended by this, some words of wisdom: I disagree with what you're saying, but I will die for your right to say it
You Samoans are all the same! You have no faith in the essential decency of the white man's culture!
User avatar
Glmclain
 
Posts: 443
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:51 pm UTC
Location: Cape Cod MA.

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Indon » Thu May 20, 2010 12:56 pm UTC

I've already drawn Mohammed and will be posting my beautiful artwork (a stick figure with a caption of THIS IS TOTALLY MOHAMMED) on Facebook later today.
So, I like talking. So if you want to talk about something with me, feel free to send me a PM.

My blog, now rarely updated.

Image
User avatar
Indon
 
Posts: 4433
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:21 pm UTC
Location: Alabama :(

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Cynical Idealist » Thu May 20, 2010 1:22 pm UTC

Indon wrote:I've already drawn Mohammed and will be posting my beautiful artwork (a stick figure with a caption of THIS IS TOTALLY MOHAMMED) on Facebook later today.

I find your avatar particularly amusing, given the discussion in the other thread.
The internet removes the two biggest aids in detecting sarcasm:
1)The tone of voice
2)the assumption that the other person is sane
Elvish Pillager wrote:See? All the problems in our society are caused by violent video games, like FarmVille.
User avatar
Cynical Idealist
 
Posts: 1124
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:48 pm UTC

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Moo » Thu May 20, 2010 1:38 pm UTC

I disagree with what you're saying, but I will die for your right to say it
At this sort of sentiment in general, rather than just one poster:

The point of freedom of speech is to ensure that people of a democratic nation can be critical of their leaders without fear of retaliation. It's a big-picture sort of concept, not just a whiney "I should be able to say whatever I please BWAAAH". When the only possible outcome of your expression is offense, harping on about about your freedom to do it rather misses the point of that freedom, in my opinion.
Proverbs 9:7-8 wrote:Anyone who rebukes a mocker will get an insult in return. Anyone who corrects the wicked will get hurt. So don't bother correcting mockers; they will only hate you.
User avatar
Moo
Oh man! I'm going to be so rebellious! I'm gonna...
 
Posts: 5949
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:15 pm UTC
Location: Beyond the goblin city

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Le1bn1z » Thu May 20, 2010 1:57 pm UTC

Moo wrote:
I disagree with what you're saying, but I will die for your right to say it
At this sort of sentiment in general, rather than just one poster:

The point of freedom of speech is to ensure that people of a democratic nation can be critical of their leaders without fear of retaliation. It's a big-picture sort of concept, not just a whiney "I should be able to say whatever I please BWAAAH". When the only possible outcome of your expression is offense, harping on about about your freedom to do it rather misses the point of that freedom, in my opinion.


Actually, not just their leaders, but also critical of one another, critical of major institutions, critical of social mores and norms, critical of religion, critical of philosophy, critical of the arts, critical of public policy of any kind, critical of public employees, critical of private business and interests, critical of ideas in general and critical of the existence of reality.

These are all crucial targets of free-speech, without which we are entirely and abjectly unfree. If we are unfree to criticise religion, then we are back in the 1600s, where the Dutch or English could arrest you for doubting the Trinity. We are back in Rome, where questioning the Pope was a felony. We are back in Arabia, where doubting the truthfulness or sanity of Muhammed was a crime. We are back in Athens, where Socrates was executed for questioning the sacred and the glorified.

We should not allow religious institutions to exempt themselves from criticism, by any means. Not by law, of course, but also not by intimidation or social pressure. Criticism is a public duty, as much as it is a right. And it becomes doubly a duty when someone tries to limit this freedom.
Krong writes: Code: Select all
transubstantiate(Bread b) {
Person p = getJesusPersonInstance();
p.RenderProperties = b.RenderProperties;
free(b);
}
Le1bn1z
 
Posts: 832
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:27 pm UTC

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Moo » Thu May 20, 2010 2:05 pm UTC

I never proposed anyone shouldn't be allowed to express their freedom; simply that only because you can is not to say you have to. I interpret the situation differently from you; "We should not allow religious institutions to exempt themselves from criticism" as opposed to "religious institutions would really rather be exempt from ridicule, even if under the guise of free speech".
Proverbs 9:7-8 wrote:Anyone who rebukes a mocker will get an insult in return. Anyone who corrects the wicked will get hurt. So don't bother correcting mockers; they will only hate you.
User avatar
Moo
Oh man! I'm going to be so rebellious! I'm gonna...
 
Posts: 5949
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:15 pm UTC
Location: Beyond the goblin city

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Indon » Thu May 20, 2010 2:36 pm UTC

Cynical Idealist wrote:I find your avatar particularly amusing, given the discussion in the other thread.


The only logical conclusion of such a line of thinking is the LOLMohammed.

"I made you a religion, but then I eated it."
So, I like talking. So if you want to talk about something with me, feel free to send me a PM.

My blog, now rarely updated.

Image
User avatar
Indon
 
Posts: 4433
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:21 pm UTC
Location: Alabama :(

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Kayangelus » Thu May 20, 2010 2:46 pm UTC

Indon wrote:
Cynical Idealist wrote:I find your avatar particularly amusing, given the discussion in the other thread.


The only logical conclusion of such a line of thinking is the LOLMohammed.

"I made you a religion, but then I eated it."


Totally made my day... now, if only I could draw, I could participate in today with LOLMohammeds...
Kayangelus
 
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:37 am UTC

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Woofsie » Thu May 20, 2010 3:03 pm UTC

eatedreligion.jpg


It could be better, but this is what I got with 5 mins in paint.
There's real poetry in the real world. Science is the poetry of reality. ~Richard Dawkins

You can't trust everything you read on the internet. ~Abraham Lincoln
User avatar
Woofsie
 
Posts: 702
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:11 pm UTC
Location: Ireland

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Maduyn » Thu May 20, 2010 3:04 pm UTC

Okay let me ask this question.

If i put a picture up of Ronald McDonald and just post a caption that he is the prophet Mohammad Is that still offensive? Even though clearly it is not Mohammad?
I was once asked why i am a pacifist.
I simply said "Because I have finally understood what it is to die"
User avatar
Maduyn
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:37 pm UTC

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Weeks » Thu May 20, 2010 3:08 pm UTC

ITT: We are dicks for no reason at all

EDIT: Not that I'm in favor of any side. I think it should be ok to do this within the law, but it's not ok to offend people just because you can.
Last edited by Weeks on Thu May 20, 2010 3:11 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Magnanimous wrote:If it begs you to switch browsers, would it be Internet Implorer?
(he/him/his)Image
User avatar
Weeks
Hey Baby, wanna make a fortnight?
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:41 am UTC
Location: Panama (the country)

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Glmclain » Thu May 20, 2010 3:11 pm UTC

I believe so, I think it's any depiction no matter how random. The cartoon that started the movement was random kitchen products all yelling "I am the Prophet!"
You Samoans are all the same! You have no faith in the essential decency of the white man's culture!
User avatar
Glmclain
 
Posts: 443
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:51 pm UTC
Location: Cape Cod MA.

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Indon » Thu May 20, 2010 3:11 pm UTC

Maduyn wrote:Okay let me ask this question.

If i put a picture up of Ronald McDonald and just post a caption that he is the prophet Mohammad Is that still offensive? Even though clearly it is not Mohammad?


The point is that the islamic extremists who consider the depiction of their prophet by non-muslims to be offensive are missing the point - that point being that Islam is about the reverence of Allah, not the prophet, and that if muslims started putting Mohammed places it could confuse that.

There is zero chance that anyone would worship Ronald McDonald as Mohammed. Unless you're making a statement that the Islamic religion was delivered to muslims by a clown (and depending on how you do it, that might be a reasonable message to take from such a picture), no sane, intelligent muslim would be offended.

And that's the point - for everyone to draw a depiction of Mohammed that only idiots will hate.

Edit:
Weeks wrote:EDIT: Not that I'm in favor of any side. I think it should be ok to do this within the law, but it's not ok to offend people just because you can.

I'll go into a bit more depth into the intent of the day.

Basically, some muslim extremists are making death threats and such to non-muslims who depict Mohammed.

The idea is for so many people to personally depict mohammed that muslim extremists can no longer make credible threats against each and every one of them.

This is not offending people just because we can. This is offending people out of solidarity against threats to kill them.
So, I like talking. So if you want to talk about something with me, feel free to send me a PM.

My blog, now rarely updated.

Image
User avatar
Indon
 
Posts: 4433
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:21 pm UTC
Location: Alabama :(

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Maduyn » Thu May 20, 2010 3:25 pm UTC

Image

Is this good?
Attachments
motivator8160bc1c03270a822b89bb831c835bd631fea22b.jpg
I was once asked why i am a pacifist.
I simply said "Because I have finally understood what it is to die"
User avatar
Maduyn
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:37 pm UTC

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby simdude » Thu May 20, 2010 4:02 pm UTC

I have very deep reservations about this day.

I am very much for sending a strong, unique, unified message to violent extreemists who are very much in the wrong in trying to censor people, especially with violence. This is an important thing to do.

However, my concern is that the day is giving a platform for more than just people speaking out against extreemists but gives people a way to further "other" and already "othered" group. Immagine if you will that an equally fundamental and violent Christian organization made death threats over a similar situation. Would there still be the same sort of backlash? I'm not certain. I would hope so, but I can't convince myself there would be. I do think the key difference would be that the focus would be on the extreemists and not the religion itself.

I'm not saying that's a reason not to hold this "protest" but I'm not certain enough in my convictions that it is a good thing that will not be doing harm to people along the way in the form of increasing the "otherness" of Muslims in the US.
simdude
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 7:39 pm UTC

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Naurgul » Thu May 20, 2010 4:23 pm UTC

I think the underlying problem with this affair has more to do with proportionality than free speech. On one hand, there's the fact that people who belong to a religious group find a specific picture offensive and argue that others should never draw the picture in question in order to respect them. On the other hand. there's the fact that a few of them believe that violence is the appropriate response to drawing such pictures. It's the latter that troubles me way more than the former.

While "Draw Mohammad Day" does show that people won't let these threats terrorise them (which is important too, don't get me wrong), they do nothing to let the extremists know that threats of violence is not an acceptable civilised response to offence. Not only is this thing useless to discourage them, it aggravates them further.

So, I kinda see the point but I'm fairly certain it isn't addressing the root cause of the problem.
Praised be the nightmare, which reveals to us that we have the power to create hell.
User avatar
Naurgul
 
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:50 am UTC
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Indon » Thu May 20, 2010 4:50 pm UTC

simdude wrote:I'm not saying that's a reason not to hold this "protest" but I'm not certain enough in my convictions that it is a good thing that will not be doing harm to people along the way in the form of increasing the "otherness" of Muslims in the US.


That's a good point - I think we can work to fight that just by calling out if a picture of mohammed is okay in and of itself or not.

For instance, Maduyn's picture. That's... a pretty evil picture of Ronald McDonald to pick, there. The idea is that an innocuous picture of Mohammed would be offensive for no reason. A picture of something evil that says "this is mohammed!" rather implies that you're saying mohammed is evil - in this case, evil Ronald McDonald.
So, I like talking. So if you want to talk about something with me, feel free to send me a PM.

My blog, now rarely updated.

Image
User avatar
Indon
 
Posts: 4433
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:21 pm UTC
Location: Alabama :(

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Aetius » Thu May 20, 2010 6:04 pm UTC

simdude wrote:Immagine if you will that an equally fundamental and violent Christian organization made death threats over a similar situation. Would there still be the same sort of backlash?


Yep. It was called the Enlightenment.

In the spirit of this thread: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... reinky.DTL
Aetius
 
Posts: 1098
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:23 am UTC

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Le1bn1z » Thu May 20, 2010 6:23 pm UTC

Aetius wrote:
simdude wrote:Immagine if you will that an equally fundamental and violent Christian organization made death threats over a similar situation. Would there still be the same sort of backlash?


Yep. It was called the Enlightenment.

In the spirit of this thread: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... reinky.DTL


Yep. Many of the most effective Enlightenment critics were the irreverent ones. I'm thinking now of Voltaire (esp. with Candide) and Denis Diderot, the Atheist Darling, (esp. with Rameau's Nephew and D'Alembert's Dream) Rameau's Nephew, in particular, is hillarious and a very easy read. Mandeville's Fable of the bees was also pretty good. And who can forget Rabelais's Gargantua.

Let's not also forget the power of absurdist and semi-absurdist theatre in undermining the Communist ethos in Czechloslovakia and other Communist states, from the 1960s through the 1980s.

This is the sort of thing that works, as far as criticism goes. It's taken as "offensive" because it desanctifies its targets, exposing them as sordid or ridiculous. It allows communication of ideas not well expressed through simple argumentative prose, because such prose continues to legitimise the target to ridicule.

What's ultimately offensive to such people is the notion that there are those who consider their worldview illegitimate. I am always wary of such people. In their heart of hearts, they believe themselves to be the world's natural masters.
Krong writes: Code: Select all
transubstantiate(Bread b) {
Person p = getJesusPersonInstance();
p.RenderProperties = b.RenderProperties;
free(b);
}
Le1bn1z
 
Posts: 832
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:27 pm UTC

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby jestingrabbit » Thu May 20, 2010 6:53 pm UTC

It also worked because it came from within the cultures that its deriding, spoke their language, and understood the subtleties. Crappy photoshops of muhammad with a bomb in his turban do none of those.
ameretrifle wrote:Magic space feudalism is therefore a viable idea.
User avatar
jestingrabbit
 
Posts: 5600
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:50 pm UTC
Location: Sydney

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Texas_Ben » Thu May 20, 2010 7:00 pm UTC

I am particularly tickled by the many pictures of protests against "draw muhammad day" in which the protesters are holding signs with stuff like "death to your freedom of speech" and the like. As they exercise their freedom of speech.
Texas_Ben
 
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:34 am UTC
Location: Not in Texas

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Indon » Thu May 20, 2010 7:21 pm UTC

jestingrabbit wrote:It also worked because it came from within the cultures that its deriding, spoke their language, and understood the subtleties. Crappy photoshops of muhammad with a bomb in his turban do none of those.


Some Enlightenment stuff did boil down to that, just for christianity, though.
So, I like talking. So if you want to talk about something with me, feel free to send me a PM.

My blog, now rarely updated.

Image
User avatar
Indon
 
Posts: 4433
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:21 pm UTC
Location: Alabama :(

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Crius » Thu May 20, 2010 7:43 pm UTC

Do non-fundamentalist muslims get offended by depictions of Mohammed as well as the fundies?

While I wholly support giving the finger to violent extremists, it seems like this would have would have a lot of collateral damage - plenty of non-violent muslims are sure to be offended, even non-fundies would likely find "suicide bomber Mohammed" and "evil Ronald McDonald Mohammed" in bad taste.
User avatar
Crius
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:27 pm UTC

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Kizyr » Thu May 20, 2010 8:32 pm UTC

Crius wrote:Do non-fundamentalist muslims get offended by depictions of Mohammed as well as the fundies?

While I wholly support giving the finger to violent extremists, it seems like this would have would have a lot of collateral damage - plenty of non-violent muslims are sure to be offended, even non-fundies would likely find "suicide bomber Mohammed" and "evil Ronald McDonald Mohammed" in bad taste.

Yes.

Most of the content of this thread is in extremely poor taste, as it comes across as being offensive solely for the sake of being offensive. Plus, it furthers and encourages the "othering" of Muslims in the US and elsewhere, since at its core the message is "oh look how silly these people are being offended by imagery".

That's the only comment I'll make regarding the content of this thread.

Finally, there's an image of Mohammed carved in the Supreme Court, along with other famous lawgivers (Moses, Hammurabi, King John, Augustus Caesar, etc.). There's some reticence about that from most US Muslims who're aware of it, but given that it's a well-intentioned sculpture, you don't see the same kind of revulsion as more recent depictions. The chief problem has been that most recent depictions of the Prophet by non-Muslims that have gained fame/notoriety have been intentionally offensive. KF
~Kaiser
Image
User avatar
Kizyr
 
Posts: 2070
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:16 am UTC
Location: Virginia

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Weeks » Thu May 20, 2010 8:58 pm UTC

Indon wrote:The idea is for so many people to personally depict mohammed that muslim extremists can no longer make credible threats against each and every one of them.

This is not offending people just because we can. This is offending people out of solidarity against threats to kill them.
Umm, ok, but not all Muslims made death threats, yet many might be offended by these actions, as Crius and others said. Also I don't see how making more people do this will reduce the threat...if anything, doesn't this give them more of a reason to hate us?
Magnanimous wrote:If it begs you to switch browsers, would it be Internet Implorer?
(he/him/his)Image
User avatar
Weeks
Hey Baby, wanna make a fortnight?
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:41 am UTC
Location: Panama (the country)

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby meatyochre » Thu May 20, 2010 9:26 pm UTC

Enlightenment critics were intelligent and satirical. Comparing this event to that is farcical. A few may have noble intentions but for the most part, this is just engaging in offensiveness for its own sake.

DAMN YOU, INTERNET! (insert penny arcade image with blackboard depiction of internet + normal person = raging asshole)
Dark567 wrote:"Hey, I created a perpetual motion device"

"yeah, but your poster sucks. F-"

Image
User avatar
meatyochre
 
Posts: 1524
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:09 am UTC
Location: flying with the Conchords

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Maduyn » Thu May 20, 2010 9:42 pm UTC

Indon wrote:
simdude wrote:I'm not saying that's a reason not to hold this "protest" but I'm not certain enough in my convictions that it is a good thing that will not be doing harm to people along the way in the form of increasing the "otherness" of Muslims in the US.


That's a good point - I think we can work to fight that just by calling out if a picture of mohammed is okay in and of itself or not.

For instance, Maduyn's picture. That's... a pretty evil picture of Ronald McDonald to pick, there. The idea is that an innocuous picture of Mohammed would be offensive for no reason. A picture of something evil that says "this is mohammed!" rather implies that you're saying mohammed is evil - in this case, evil Ronald McDonald.



I did an evil Ronald cause you said the point of not depicting him was so that he would not be worshiped instead of Allah/god.
So the idea is that it would be evil of said Mohammad to want to be worshiped.
I was just trying to do as you said
Indon wrote:"And that's the point - for everyone to draw a depiction of Mohammed that only idiots will hate."

I guess i failed then.
I was once asked why i am a pacifist.
I simply said "Because I have finally understood what it is to die"
User avatar
Maduyn
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:37 pm UTC

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Dark Avorian » Thu May 20, 2010 10:52 pm UTC

I have to agree with crius and the others. There is fine line between protesting your freedom of speech and just doing stuff that offends people. If you are trying to make a point by drawing a respectable depiction of Mohammed just to make a point about free speech, I'll support that. If you are trying to make a comment about how Muhammad isn't supposed to be the focal point of the worship, then do that. But if you're just doing it to be offensive, just doing it to say "hur, hur, I is an invincible member of the civilized western world and i will use offensive stereotypes to show barbaric muslims the error of their ways" (and even if you have good intention that often is kinda what you're doing) then I will let you do it, but be sure I will berate you for it until it crawls back to it's cave.
The 62-foot tall statue of Jesus constructed out of styrofoam, wood and fiberglass resin caught on fire after the right hand of the statue was struck by lightning.


meatyochre wrote:And yea, verily the forums crowd spake: "Teehee!"
Dark Avorian
 
Posts: 547
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 10:48 pm UTC

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Xeio » Fri May 21, 2010 12:04 am UTC

So, did facebook censor/delete the facebook group now...?

Here's the cache

And an article http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/05/20/facebook-apparently-briefly-removes-everybody-draw-muhammed-page/ Though as of this post, it isn't up, so I don't know about that "briefly" thing.
User avatar
Xeio
Friends, Faidites, Countrymen
 
Posts: 4811
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:12 am UTC
Location: C:\Users\Xeio\

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Dark Avorian » Fri May 21, 2010 1:06 am UTC

Well, to be honest, Facebook is a company owned social networking site so saying "OH we haz teh free speeeech" is wrong, it's their site, they can censor you if they damn well want to.
The 62-foot tall statue of Jesus constructed out of styrofoam, wood and fiberglass resin caught on fire after the right hand of the statue was struck by lightning.


meatyochre wrote:And yea, verily the forums crowd spake: "Teehee!"
Dark Avorian
 
Posts: 547
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 10:48 pm UTC

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Isaac Hill » Fri May 21, 2010 2:29 am UTC

The tourist materials for the frieze at the Supreme Court apparently state the figurebears no resemblance to Muhammad. I understand and support a government entity taking great pains so as not to offend any of the citizens it represents, but individuals in a free society cannot be under the same restrictions.

I don't have Facebook account to post this to, but I did draw a stick figure Mohammed in a bear suit when the South Park episode aired. Spoilered, as in the South Park thread, so no Muslim inadvertently looks at it.
Spoiler:
Image
The inclusion of his child bride isn't meant to be a criticism, I just needed an aspect of his life that I could actually draw, and a little pink bow is about the limit of my abilities. I don't see a problem with the marriage itself, since marrying age was much lower in his time, and it was common for marriages to take place primarily as a way to strengthen bonds between two communities, which a prophet would have to do. Plus, he had parental consent, and if that was good enough for Ted Nugent, it's good enough for Mohammed. The fact that he married the girl and made an honest woman tween out of her makes him a far better moral example than those sluttly, slutty priests. One of those sick bastards appears to have molested around 200 deaf boys which is not only horrifying, but the weirdest damn fetish I've ever heard of.

The Mohammed as clown discussion inspired this:
Spoiler:
Image
Alleged "poems"
that don't follow a rhyme scheme
are not poetry
User avatar
Isaac Hill
 
Posts: 361
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:35 pm UTC
Location: Middletown, RI

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby LuNatic » Fri May 21, 2010 7:18 am UTC

Le1bn1z wrote:
Moo wrote:
I disagree with what you're saying, but I will die for your right to say it
At this sort of sentiment in general, rather than just one poster:

The point of freedom of speech is to ensure that people of a democratic nation can be critical of their leaders without fear of retaliation. It's a big-picture sort of concept, not just a whiney "I should be able to say whatever I please BWAAAH". When the only possible outcome of your expression is offense, harping on about about your freedom to do it rather misses the point of that freedom, in my opinion.


Actually, not just their leaders, but also critical of one another, critical of major institutions, critical of social mores and norms, critical of religion, critical of philosophy, critical of the arts, critical of public policy of any kind, critical of public employees, critical of private business and interests, critical of ideas in general and critical of the existence of reality.

These are all crucial targets of free-speech, without which we are entirely and abjectly unfree. If we are unfree to criticise religion, then we are back in the 1600s, where the Dutch or English could arrest you for doubting the Trinity. We are back in Rome, where questioning the Pope was a felony. We are back in Arabia, where doubting the truthfulness or sanity of Muhammed was a crime. We are back in Athens, where Socrates was executed for questioning the sacred and the glorified.

We should not allow religious institutions to exempt themselves from criticism, by any means. Not by law, of course, but also not by intimidation or social pressure. Criticism is a public duty, as much as it is a right. And it becomes doubly a duty when someone tries to limit this freedom.


Drawing a picture for the expressed intent of offending someone isn't criticism, its arseholism.
Cynical Idealist wrote:
Velict wrote:Good Jehova, there are cheesegraters on the blagotube!

This is, for some reason, one of the funniest things I've read today.
User avatar
LuNatic
 
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:21 am UTC
Location: The land of Aus

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Gelsamel » Fri May 21, 2010 7:35 am UTC

We need a 'good' reason to say something before we're free to speak?
Death is the final sorrowful parting from which there is no return. But hope is not yet lost, for there is a simple incantation, a spell of transmutation that brings about the reversal, that permits escape from the infinite well.

"I was here with you"

That is my golden truth.
User avatar
Gelsamel
Lame and emo
 
Posts: 8200
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:49 am UTC
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby smw543 » Fri May 21, 2010 7:37 am UTC

Dark Avorian wrote:Well, to be honest, Facebook is a company owned social networking site so saying "OH we haz teh free speeeech" is wrong, it's their site, they can censor you if they damn well want to.

Well then, I guess it's a good thing he didn't say anything even remotely suggestive of that.
Spoiler:
LE4dGOLEM wrote:Now you know the difference between funny and sad.
Ubik wrote:But I'm too fond of the penis to let it go.
gmalivuk wrote:If you didn't want people to 'mis'understand you, then you probably should have tried saying something less stupid.
User avatar
smw543
 
Posts: 1248
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:45 am UTC
Location: Orlando, Florida

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Moo » Fri May 21, 2010 7:50 am UTC

Gelsamel wrote:We need a 'good' reason to say something before we're free to speak?
Need? No. But to be wilfully offensive without a reason is a bit of a dick move.
Proverbs 9:7-8 wrote:Anyone who rebukes a mocker will get an insult in return. Anyone who corrects the wicked will get hurt. So don't bother correcting mockers; they will only hate you.
User avatar
Moo
Oh man! I'm going to be so rebellious! I'm gonna...
 
Posts: 5949
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:15 pm UTC
Location: Beyond the goblin city

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Lazar » Fri May 21, 2010 8:03 am UTC

Moo wrote:
Gelsamel wrote:We need a 'good' reason to say something before we're free to speak?
Need? No. But to be wilfully offensive without a reason is a bit of a dick move.

The reason is that it was the drawing of Mohammed in particular that elicited so many death threats and attempts at suppression - thus the participants consider the making of these drawings to be a defiant statement in support of free speech. It needs to be viewed in the context of the Jyllands Posten and South Park controversies, which raised the question of whether free speech will be limited by the threat of extralegal retaliation.
Spread the word on menus nationwide!
User avatar
Lazar
Landed Gentry
 
Posts: 1285
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:49 pm UTC
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Moo » Fri May 21, 2010 8:45 am UTC

True. Which is why I started in this thread in general terms rather than this specific incident, but I have blurred the two a bit since. I do see a lot of the points being made but I fear a lot of participants will still see this as "lol religion is for idiots now let's try and offend them because it's funny", missing the intent of the creators. Doesn't invalidate the concerns that have been mentioned, though.
Proverbs 9:7-8 wrote:Anyone who rebukes a mocker will get an insult in return. Anyone who corrects the wicked will get hurt. So don't bother correcting mockers; they will only hate you.
User avatar
Moo
Oh man! I'm going to be so rebellious! I'm gonna...
 
Posts: 5949
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:15 pm UTC
Location: Beyond the goblin city

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby Nordic Einar » Fri May 21, 2010 8:49 am UTC

I still find it hard to believe that drawing Muhammad will ultimately influence either the Extremists who'll continue to make threats over this sort of thing, or the companies who'll "protect" their employees with censorship. Ultimately the only outcome I see days like this having are marginalizing and offending moderate/liberal Muslims and continuing to other their culture.

Further, I guarantee you a whole fuck lot of people who drew Muhammad yesterday did it for no reason other than to be a cunt to Muslims. Which doesn't really help this situation out all that much.
Nordic Einar
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:21 am UTC

Re: Draw Mohammad Day

Postby el_loco_avs » Fri May 21, 2010 9:09 am UTC

Proposed solution:

make it into: draw nice cuddly depictions of Mohammed day.

?
You go your way.
I'll go your way too.
User avatar
el_loco_avs
 
Posts: 1296
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:14 pm UTC

Next

Return to News & Articles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests