Newbie Transformers Mafia: Game Over - Fail Mod is Fail.

[Krong]

Aaggh lots of posts...
Unvote while I read them

[_infina_]

EBWOP: Whoops...misread one of the rules, missed the PM part, thought it was just:
Don't post verbatim or quote from your role, paraphrasing is fine.

Messed that one up. If I'm mod-killed, it is game over.
Sorry.

[jayhsu]

Town is modkilled and town proceeds to lose. Oh well.

Gg aardvarki. I really trsuted you ;]

[_infina_]

Aardvarki, you screwed up, had you not done that roleclaim, you would have been safe for a while I believe. I had absolutely no suspicions about you, and I don't think anyone else did either.
And to all I apologise for my newbie mistake.

[jayhsu]

Let's see. If we modkill infina, town will then vote aardvarki. mafia gets a NK, assuming they succeed it's

2 town, 2 mafia tomorrow.

If doctor is right, then it's 3 town, 2 mafia,

then town votes EH,

mafia gets another NK. If successful, mafia wins. If not, we are 2 town 1 mafia, and the town has to figure out who the last is.

I guess the game is salvageable....

[_infina_]

Let's see. If we modkill infina, town will then vote aardvarki. mafia gets a NK, assuming they succeed it's

2 town, 2 mafia tomorrow.

If doctor is right, then it's 3 town, 2 mafia,

then town votes EH,

mafia gets another NK. If successful, mafia wins. If not, we are 2 town 1 mafia, and the town has to figure out who the last is.

I guess the game is salvageable....

Won't happen unless my vote still counts for tonight.

[Krong]

*Sigh*

Not sure what to think here. I'm going to just skip over infina's role quote for now, since if it's true and the mod takes action, we've already lost unless the doctor picks right. Let me just try to untangle other things a bit (this is mostly for myself)...

We've got two pairs of counterclaims:

EH - weiyaoli (Arcee, cop)
Aardvarki - infina (Bumblebee, vanilla town)

I see little reason at LYLO for a townie to be lying about their role, so one in each pair is scum.

The three unclaimed players are:
KrazyerKate
Krong
jahysu

It's almost certain that among the three of us, one is doctor, one is scum, and one is vanilla town. Therefore, NONE OF US SHOULD CLAIM (except the scum player, of course ). If one of us does claim a specific vanilla townie, the scum will immediately know who the doctor is and kill them tonight.

Now... I'm going to have to cut this short since I need to be somewhere in 5 minutes, but it sounded like the analysis around who could be scum given the possibility for a speedlynch was pretty useful. It's not an experiment I think we want to repeat, though, so I'd suggest we don't try to restart the bandwagon or start any new ones until we all have had a chance to think about the scenarios involved. (Read this as: Aaagh, I don't have time to think about this, please slow things down!)

[jayhsu]

Actually krong, you're wrong, Infina is right, above you: If he's modkilled, the scum equal the town in votes and town loses.

gg all.

[superdemongob]

Do you want me to quote the role PM? I will do so if you wish. As a matter of fact, Here it is:

You are Bumblebee, a Vanilla Autobot.
You are pro-town.

Although you have no special powers, your vote is an important and powerful tool.
Use it wisely.

And if you look at my earliest posts, I paraphrased my role's motto, taken from the flavor text.
Unvote
Vote:Aardvarki

Yea guys, lets just call it a day.
can't not modkill him but then can't seal the games outcome like that.

sorry i messed up this game at several points big time.
i'm definitely going to stick to DMing D&D games.
i know you guys are not happy but all i can say is sorry.
fail mod is fail.

[jayhsu]

Hey it's okay, it's your first try, right? I think silknor could give you advice sometime - maybe you should mod with him?

I think a good rule is: if you're unsure whether to give information, don't.

[ElectricHaze]

Oh well. I would have liked to see how things would have turned out if _infina_ hadn't slipped up like that. I think it's good experiance all around though. You didn't do a bad job modding, you just need to seriously read your posts several times before submitting them as I'm sure you've noticed that what you say and how you word it can have a serious effect on the game.

GG everyone.

[_infina_]

Can we get a list of who was who?
I know I was Bumblebee
Silknor was Optimus Prime
TLC was Ironhide
and a reasonable assumption that weiyaoli was Arcee

[ElectricHaze]

Autobots present:
Ratchet - Doctor (I think it's Jaysu)
Arcee - Sane Cop (Weiyaoli)
Optimus Prime - Vanilla Townie (Silknor)
Bumblebee - Vanilla Townie (_infina_)
Prowl - Vanilla Townie (I think KrazyerKate)
Ironhide - Vanilla Townie (tastelikecoke)

Decepticons Present:
Megatron - Godfather (Aardvarki)
Lockdown (no pun intended) - Roleblocker who's role blocks don't really work. (Krong)
Lugnut - Vanilla Goon (ElectricHaze)

[_infina_]

Autobots present:
Ratchet - Doctor (I think it's Jaysu)
Arcee - Sane Cop (Weiyaoli)
Optimus Prime - Vanilla Townie (Silknor)
Bumblebee - Vanilla Townie (_infina_)
Prowl - Vanilla Townie (I think KrazyerKate)
Ironhide - Vanilla Townie (tastelikecoke)

Decepticons Present:
Megatron - Godfather (Aardvarki)
Lockdown (no pun intended) - Roleblocker who's role blocks don't really work. (Krong)
Lugnut - Vanilla Goon (ElectricHaze)

Alrighty then, I hadn't pegged any of you as mafia/Decepticons from the beginning. I was completely wrong, but TLC helped you stay under the radar, more or less, as did I with my suicidal tactics.

[jayhsu]

Yes, I was doctor.

[Aardvarki]

That's really a shame.

Infina, you're right, I wasn't under any scrutiny at all when I claimed. That's what made false-claiming then such a good strategy. No one expected me to lie about anything. And after the way your D1 claim was received, I did a good job of convincing the town that you were lying. Even without my false claim, I could have gone to D3, lynching EH and gotten off without anyone suspecting anything of me. We'd probably have won D3, when we would have convinced everyone that a townie was scum. Technically, I only needed to convince one person (then all the scumbuds quickhammer), and I have a feeling Weiyaoli had some suspicions already that I could have exploited. However, I figured I'd rather go all-in and try a false-claim for the win on D2, rather than let it drag out and risk possibly messing things up or Weiyaoli picking out the second scumbud. I felt pretty good that even with my false-claim and when Weiya shot it down, that I'd still be able to recover for a win on D3. Thus, Weiyaoli would waste his next investigation or two on me and/or a townie. I was the Godfather, so an investigation on me wouldn't have gotten the town anywhere.

I honestly thought my original false-claim post was strong enough to win it with just that - I really hadn't even considered the possibility that Weiyaoli would have a good comeback. That threw me for a loop, but I was still (in my opinion) doing a good job of keeping the heat off of my scumbuds. EH was more or less toast (and I had really considered just hammering him to end D2 and just get on with the game), but I thought I stood a decent chance with the mod slip-up that I might be able to pull out a perfect game. Yes, I was being cocky, but I thought it would work well. Apparently, it was working!

Sorry, Jay. All's fair in love and mafia though. Hopefully, no hard feelings? I figured by mentioning the 1959 game (where no one believed me and we almost lost because of it) enough times, you'd think "Oh man, he's in EXACTLY the same situation!" and fall headfirst into my story.

[Aardvarki]

EBWOP: I redacted all of the unknown roles/names from my previous post, but it seems EH already posted the roles, so I didn't really need to.

I was pretty sure I could get weiya to fall into thinking me and Jay were scumbuds (I know he suspected me as soon as I started talking about how EH could've been the real cop, so then I just got buddy-buddy with Jay and was hoping come D3 or D4, Krong could talk Weiya into voting for Jay)

That was a fun game. Yes, slightly imbalanced from the start (though the mid-game change and the mod post to start D2 basically condemning EH might have evened it up), but still fun.

I would have targetted Jayhsu with my NK the first night if I knew there was not going to be a roleblocker. I had a feeling he was the doctor from the start (well, it was either him or Krayzer after the mess that went down D1, everyone had given themselves up except those two and silknor, but I was almost certain silky was vanilla from the way he played), but I figured if we had a roleblocker, I should just get rid of the most experienced player first because there'd be no cop results - so yes, you were exactly right with your thoughts infina.

[Weeks]

Just wanted to point out that, while you may be discouraged to mod another game, it would be cool if you learned a bit more about it and tried again. It's nice to have games with a variety of mods. =)

[_infina_]

I think after I try my hand at another game that I might try modding a game, and I even have a setup ready.

[_infina_]

Actually, If you want, I could throw it on the queue for you, to make up for my mistake. But only if you want it.

[superdemongob]

Alright guys, you're all very encouraging so thank you and i most certainly have learned whats what.

for one thing, if players want to post, they can do it themselves

maybe Batman Mafia next but only after a month of reading other games.

[Silknor]

Was a fun game.

Don't judge SDG too harshly, all mods make mistakes, I know I've made my share of them too.

I'm going to start signups for another newbie game now, since I strongly feel there should always be a small one up for new players who want to join our community.

[Krong]

Yeah, I'm sorry for my post in the spoilers being a little harsh. I was kind of thinking other people had given you bad advice, and that was really what bothered me. Still love you, man (in a totally manly sort of way).

But yeah, all mods make mistakes*. It's actually pretty hard not to when you get into the game -- you kind of have to consciously distance yourself from it when posting, or force yourself to be more distant by doing something like prewriting your flavor posts. Modding (usually called mayoring) Mafia in real life is even tougher for this -- you've got to have a poker face, be able to control a very talkative crowd, and not forget things like who the various targets were. Really easy to make mistakes in situations like that, although if you do slip up, chances are only a few people notice, unlike on here.

*Of course, this isn't true for Weeks and me. Nope, we've never made a mistake and never will...


---


As for the game itself, hopefully you guys got a good introduction. The recent talk about figuring out mafia based on who would have hammered was definitely a good idea, especially since we had a bit of a plan to wait until one of you misvoted and then speedhammer if possible. weiyaoli, I think you revealed yourself unnecessarily, since TLC was pretty much doomed anyway, but you definitely made a good choice in your cop investigation. I was very worried of being copped after whatever happened today, actually, especially since there was some feeling I was lurking (still not my fault if I can't post during the workday!)

Anyway, GGs, hope you all stick around for whatever game's starting up next!

[tastelikecoke]

Autobots present:
Ratchet - Doctor (I think it's Jaysu)
Arcee - Sane Cop (Weiyaoli)
Optimus Prime - Vanilla Townie (Silknor)
Bumblebee - Vanilla Townie (_infina_)
Prowl - Vanilla Townie (I think KrazyerKate)
Ironhide - Vanilla Townie (tastelikecoke)

Decepticons Present:
Megatron - Godfather (Aardvarki)
Lockdown (no pun intended) - Roleblocker who's role blocks don't really work. (Krong)
Lugnut - Vanilla Goon (ElectricHaze)

Here's my little deduction experience after I dead.

Spoiler:

Too late for me to even judge, but after I assume _infina_'s role is townie, weyao or EH is either cop or falseclaimer, and since EH is scummy the whole role list is set down like that. EH as a roleblocker isn't logical since he will probably wield a role block than counterclaim, EH is not godfather too since he was scum in weyaoli's radar, so he's a goon. KrazyerKate can't be roleblocker since his predecessors are lurkers, his only scum role can be godfather. Jayshu is less scummy, krong, aardvarki and KK has neutrality, but after the final laydown of Aardvarki's scrutiny he's scum for sure, And I thought Krong was a predecessor of lurkers so he's not a rb as well, but that's wrong part anyway. That leaves KK and Krong as who scum, and Krong is the more friendly choice.

[weiyaoli]

I suspected Aardvarki after his falseclaim. I thought he was the other goon though so I was going to investigate him since he was really brave in falseclaiming.
I must admit I thought jayhsu was the godfather. He made a mistake early on D2. He assumed that EH was the mafia goon, which of course only the mafia and I could know since I dont think I said that in my results. Sorry jayhsu!

Here's the offending parts of my pms that confused me greatly (Since game is over I might as well quote them):

Ah okay, it was just this bit in particular:

Each night you may choose one person to investigate. you will be told this person's alignment and role.

As well as this:

Electric Haze is Lugnut, the Mafia's Vanilla Goon.

So uh yeah, I was justified in saying a sort of rolecop.... :/ If infina didn't pm quote, I would have lead the Aardvarki lynch D3 with my innocent result, pretty sure he was the godfather because infina in no way seemed scum to me, especially after a few dodgy posts early D2. It would have been better without the role claim Aardvarki. You seemed to switch targets D2 too much for me. It was EH since he looked doomed early D2. Then the rolecop bit came and you switched to me because you thought you could get a lynch on me. Then the claim came so yeah I wasn't too inclined to believe it.

EDIT: If I survived N2 and N3 which would have been likely if EH was lynched because then I'm obviously town. I would have investigated aardvarki and then jayhsu. If jayhsu survives to D4, I'm at least 70% confident that I would have picked Krong out over KK and infina. However I doubt I would have survived to LYLO. I assume jayhsu was the nk target though for tonight since KK was neutral in everyone's lists, I was protected and infina was kept in so he looked more scummy. Then we lynch Aardvarki, 3-1. I assume I go because the doctor died so 2-1 LYLO. If Krong was convincing enough he might manage it for KK but infina was pretty much confirmed town at that point so I think town was likely to win this.

DOUBLEEDIT: @Krong I thought about not claiming, indeed I even posted it into a spoiler! But after my terrible experience in 1959 as cop.... :/ so yeah I wanted protection as well as counterclaiming TLC. I thought sending in my investigation was pointless at one point and nearly didn't at all! But luckly I reread and sent one just in case for EH. Sdg should have just quoted my pm which would have distanced sufficiently. Using my pm, it came from me so obviously he wasn't doing anything but passing it on.

[Aardvarki]

@Weiya:

Yeah, I assumed you were telling the truth about your rolecop ability. When you said it was a rolecop, I flipped out and went to SDG, because a rolecop (even if godfather would have returned a town role) would be disastrous for the Godfather. That's when he posted that it was just a standard cop, so I figured I'd use that as evidence against you, since everyone was using SDG's slip-up saying you were the cop as evidence against EH. Turnabout is fair play and all.

(Reasoning behind rolecop being disastrous for the Godfather is as follows:
If he gives you the role on everyone else, but only says "Town" for me, it's OBVIOUS I'm the Godfather.
If he had chosen a random town role to give you for me, there was a 4/6 chance he would have given you a role that was already claimed/dead, which again would have been obvious.
If he had chosen a random town role from the two unclaimed (Ratchet/Prowl), there's a 50% chance that it would have been Ratchet, and we were about to kill Ratchet that night. That would have made it obvious.

I was going to PM SDG and specifically request that the rolename Bumblebee to be given if I was copped, but he said it was not a rolecop, so I dropped it there.

You guys are right, that the false-claim I made D2 was probably not the best strategically. However, if we had just let Jay hammer EH, the game would have been far less interesting. I figured by false-claiming that I could spice things up and maybe get a chance at winning a perfect game (without having any mafia lynched). I already felt I could win it without a lot of challenge if I let it play out, as before my claim, my hunch was that I was the most townie looking player in the game, aside from Weiyaoli (and I'm pretty sure that was accurate). Smart, cautious play would have led to a fairly easy mafia win (in my opinion), but I don't think it would have been nearly as interesting. I play this game more for fun than to win (though winning is always nice), so I went the more interesting and fun route.

My NK order WITHOUT the role-claim would have been Jayhsu N2, Weiyaoli N3.
My NK order WITH the role-claim would have been KK N2, Jayhsu N3, Weiyaoli N4. I feel pretty confident I could have gotten either Jayhsu to put his vote on _infina_ D3, or Weiyaoli to put his vote on Jayhsu D3. If any of you had misvoted at all D3, Krong and I were going to quickly hammer for the win. The reason for changing the order was because I felt there was about a 30% chance of KK being the doctor (70% for Jay), and I felt I had the best chance of convincing Jay to mis-vote D3.

I was almost certain that if you had an "innocent" result on me, I could have convinced Jay that _infina_ was the Godfather, not me, and gotten him to misvote. The ONLY thing I was worried about was you lying about the result on me and claiming you got a "scum" result. That would've been an incredibly ballsy move (and one which I don't think you were considering), but I'm positive it would have worked.

As stated before, If I had known the roleblocker was going to be cancelled, I would have NKed Jayhsu N1, as he was my prime suspect for the doctor. I only went with Silknor because I assumed that the town would have nothing at all to go on besides their collective intellect, and Silknor had the most games under his belt, so I felt he was the most likely to pick out the scum.