[MINI] Hospital Mafia: And the victory goes to...

[Flying_Cookie]

Votals
4 Vox (mpolo, keeneal, Lataro,Sir_Elderberry)

And so the patients gathered in the main hall. Most of them merely shrugged when asked who they thought was part of the Mafia, but those who did offer suggestions decided on Vox.
After a few minutes of searching, they found Vox asleep in a corner, and wrapped a tube around her neck, strangling her.

It is now Night.

[jayhsu]

Is uh, this still going?

[Lataro]

This is a pretty long night for only 2-3 scum..

[Flying_Cookie]

Apologies, I have been struck by sickness. In theory this should start up again tomorrow.

[Brooklynxman]

Apologies, I have been struck by sickness. In theory this should start up again tomorrow.

Not playing, eating popcorn, but the irony* of the mod of a hospital game being struck by an illness is too great to not point out.

*For certain non-dictionary definitions of irony

[Flying_Cookie]

In the morning, those that where able gathered around Vox's body, and searched it for identification, eventually finding the keys to the computer room in her pocket.

Looking around, the members of the hospital then noticed that Keeneal and Jayhsu where missing. After some frantic searching, they found their bodies in their respective rooms, both dead, and their life support machines unplugged.

At that point the Intercom went on:
"Vox, Keeneal and Jayhsu all died last night. Our records say that; Vox was the director of the hospital, with the ability to turn off one persons life support every even numbered night, Keeneal was a member of the local Mafia, and Jayhsu was the nightly doctor, who after visiting a patient, locked the door, preventing them from leaving.
Seven more to go, good luck."

[jayhsu]

Welp i'm dead. I was probably too overt.

[Van]

Interesting. that was N1, so that wasn't Vox that killed Keeneal. Vox was the director, so probably town, and thus a vig. Based off the old flavor of "two or three people that like to kill" (iirc), we probably have 1 SK and 1 mafia left.

[Vox Imperatoris]

Sorry I hadn't been posting. I'd been really distracted by things in real life. But it seems I'm dead now, anyway.

[mpolo]

"At least one person holds the key to the computer room": This suggests to me that either (1) there is a deputy director (vig) who killed on odd nights -- explaining the extra death yesterday or (2) there is a deputy director (vig) who inherited the keys after Vox's death (which might mean an additional death tomorrow, as it would be an even night) or (3) some sort of bad-guy computer room hacker (SK) or (4) this threat/opportunity is gone with Vox's death.

"At least two people really like to lock doors": Jayhsu was one of these. We still have (at least) one doctor/roleblocker around.

"Two or three people like to kill people": Since one mafia is dead, we have maximally two direct killing roles (I presume the director doesn't count here). Either one SK and one mafia, or two mafia (but this requires that the other computer room person was active and had a kill last night)

"At least one has a college degree": No sign yet -- presumably some sort of cop, as the doctor and vig roles are claimed

"At least one person wants one": No sign yet. -- presumably some sort of deputy, I guess

There are seven of us:
2 college/college wannabe
1 doctor/doorlocker
2 divided between mafia and SK
2 divided between vanilla/computer room/power unmentioned in the flavor

[Flying_Cookie]

Its been about a day again, lets see some posting going.
Deadline Thursday.
May be removed if posting increases.

[Sir_Elderberry]

Right, sorry, I've been busy today, but I have actual news-news in the form of extra information. I got a PM during the night, which basically said that I was walking around and heard someone shouting. They said that they were stuck because their door was locked from the outside, that they were going to come out but that then they saw me with an Uzi and stayed inside. I have no clue where the Uzi thing comes from. Nothing in my role suggests guns, and all the killing so far has been via disconnected life support. Point is, I think this suggests that the other "person who enjoys locking doors" is a roleblocker, locking people in their rooms, rather than a doctor.

[zerker2000]

So why would you have an Uzi exactly?

And I think we've already guessed the "roleblocker" part.

[Sir_Elderberry]

So why would you have an Uzi exactly?

And I think we've already guessed the "roleblocker" part.

Absolutely no idea. I asked if I really had an Uzi or if that was just something the guy said, and the mod waffled. And I think that there's more to this than just the roleblocker part. Rather, it seems like there are two different kinds of door-locking. One's a doctor (who locks the door as he leaves the room) and someone else locks the door from the outside, trapping people. So I think doctor and roleblocker are separate rather being combined.

[Aardvarki]

S_E, It's certainly possible that we have two different types of doorlockers, however, according to F_C's updated intro post on page 1, jayhsu (the doorlocker who died N1) was listed as a "Roleblocker". Thus, if there is another door locker and the two are different, the other one must be the doctor. I'm personally leaning towards both of them being the same, and their ability being either roleblocker or jailkeeper (RB+Doc).

Also worth noting, on the updated intro post, Vox is listed as a "Serial Killer". What strikes me as odd is that Serial Killers are normally independent, but Vox only had a kill every other night. A standalone SK with only a kill every other night stands almost no chance of winning. This makes me agree with mpolo's suggestion that maybe there's another who kills on odd nights.

I think an important question here is whether they are aligned with the town or independent. I think it's a fair assumption that the N1 kill on Keeneal was the work of either a Vig or SK, and if there's an Odd Night SK who was paired with Vox, that could really go either way. The only thing we have to go on is the fact that it says "Serial Killer" instead of "Vigilante". Vox's death flavor doesn't really indicate whether he was town or independent so we don't have anything to go on there.

Thoughts?

[weiyaoli]

Wow this has died a bit. With a deadline on Thrus... :/

I have exams on Wed and Thrus. I'll try to get on on Tuesday though.

[Sir_Elderberry]

If Vox is listed as SK, I think we have to assume anti-town. That's standard notation for xkcd mafia, although some variant stuff could be in effect. If that's the case, then a two person mini-scum faction makes some sense as far as odd-even goes, but the problem is that it makes the real scum faction rather small. If we have three scum, two SKs, that leaves five townies--meaning town starts out without a majority. I dunno, that seems a little unreasonable.

[Aardvarki]

If Vox is listed as SK, I think we have to assume anti-town. That's standard notation for xkcd mafia, although some variant stuff could be in effect. If that's the case, then a two person mini-scum faction makes some sense as far as odd-even goes, but the problem is that it makes the real scum faction rather small. If we have three scum, two SKs, that leaves five townies--meaning town starts out without a majority. I dunno, that seems a little unreasonable.

I agree that's unreasonable. However, what makes you just ASSUME there's a three-person standard scum faction in addition to a two-person independent? Do we have some sort of proof that the mafia started off as three people? What would be wrong with a 2-person scum faction in a 10-player game? I'm pretty sure standard teams for a vanilla-ish 9 player game are 7/2 - though I know this game is far from Vanilla.

The original discussion of the flavor was that there were 2-3 "people who like to kill people". If we interpret this to mean people with NKs, then 2 SKs + 1 Mafia NK makes sense and tells us nothing about the size of the mafia. If we interpret this to mean 2-3 mafia members, then we have 2-3 mafia members. I don't see what makes you immediately jump to assuming three, rather than two, especially when discussing the existence of a separate scum/independent faction.

Unless of course, you know something we don't... FoS: S_E

I agree that you're right that a 3-player scum team would be too strong given the existence of a 2-player independent team in a 10-player game. I would think that with 2 independents, the scum faction would likely have to be 2 people. The fact that you immediately jumped to the assumption that there are 3, however, could be evidence for the existence of a 3-player scum team (if you are on it, you'd know exactly how many people it has). A 3-player scum team would likely mean one of the following:
1) Vox was an independent, by himself, with a moderately underpowered ability. (Serial killers acting alone are already very difficult to win with - a lone SK with only an "every other night" kill would be almost impossible)
2) Vox was aligned with the town, regardless of the fact that his role is listed as "Serial Killer"
3) Town is underpowered in this setup

Of the three, I don't particularly like any of these options. One is unlikely because the way I see it, if Vox was independent (which is my assumption based on the "SK" label on the intro post) and only had an "every other night" kill, there is likely another independent with another "every other night" kill, for balance's sake. Two is unlikely because, as S_E said, Serial Killer is standard notation for an independent faction in these fora. Three is also unlikely because of balance reasons.

If I HAD to choose one of these options, I would go with Option 1. I am personally leaning towards the original setup being 6/2/2, however 6/3/1 is certainly possible.

I'm going to go back and re-analyze S_E's posts from D1. I don't like the Uzi flavor, I don't like the assumption of three scum (with no real evidence to back it up).

[Lataro]

Sorry I've been kinda quiet here, have been busy with other games. I've not really had much to say because there hasn't been much to go over D2 so far, however, going though my third re-read in the last couple days turned up this gem...

keeneal:
Decent activity and discussion. I'm more confident he is town than anyone else so far.

This is about the only thing I've found that really points to a link to keeneal and another player. Calling him as the one you are most confident is town, when he turned up scum seems kinda fishy. It's not much admittedly, however, right now, I'm not seeing much to go on at all, so..

FoS: weiyaoli

As for S_E's PM. I find it odd, and quite confusing. First, the content of it is suggesting that he was doing something last night with an uzi. While this seems kinda cut and dry, the fact that he posted it without any reason other than to inform everyone of an odd message he got last night, I'm not sure what to make of it. If he were scum, why would he do that?

IGMEOY: S_E

I'm almost starting to think this is some kind of secret bastard game.

Vote: F_C

[Sir_Elderberry]

I'm not saying three-person-scum is a given, just that it's a fairly standard idea for a mini. In addition, we know that there is a mafia, as one of them has been identified, apparently separately from the SKs. It just seems like that's a ton of antitown.

As for S_E's PM. I find it odd, and quite confusing. First, the content of it is suggesting that he was doing something last night with an uzi. While this seems kinda cut and dry, the fact that he posted it without any reason other than to inform everyone of an odd message he got last night, I'm not sure what to make of it. If he were scum, why would he do that?

For town, information is power. It's a game of an informed minority vs. an uninformed majority. I made that information available because I saw no reason to keep it to myself. Again, thing is, nothing about guns or uzis or anything appears in my role or flavor, which isn't violent in any way, so it confused me. I thought revealing it might give town new avenues of investigation.

[Flying_Cookie]

Votes
Lataro: 1 (Lataro)
7 people... 4 to lynch.

[Lataro]

Votes
Lataro: 1 (Lataro)
7 people... 4 to lynch.

Okay, voting for the mod put a self vote on me so..

Unvote

This appears to be a bastard game on some level, I haven't figured out the depths yet though.

[zerker2000]

Okay, voting for the mod put a self vote on me so..

You dare to accuse The Computer of Treason! I'm rubber, you're glue. Votes bounce off me, stick to you!

[keeneal]

*snicker from beyond the grave*

[mpolo]

Argh! I had almost forgotten about this game.

Maybe the other computer person is something different from Vox (Vox uses the computers to shut off life support, and someone else does something else with them), because otherwise, the scum/indies seem way too powerful. Although since Vox's power only worked on even-numbered nights and there were two deaths last night, there are some problems here. I guess that means 1 SK and 1 mafioso left, but I'm hesitant to count on that.

Sir Elderberry would be somewhat suspicious for walking around at night while carrying an Uzi, but since he was willing to reveal the information, I'm thinking that he's town and some sort of security guard. But the whole sequence of events is strange -- the person who was locked into the room said he was going to come out until he saw Sir_Elderberry, but then the door was locked? Something smells funny here. Perhaps S_E is trying to give us information without revealing himself, but the weirdness gives me a bad feeling.

All in all, I'm confused.

Summary of today's posts:

Spoiler:

Van -- points out that Vox didn't make the 2nd kill last night.
myself -- tries to guess how many of what roles are around
Sir_Elderberry -- strange "sleepwalking Uzi-carrier" post
zerker2000 -- asks about the Uzi
S_E -- has no idea what the Uzi meant. Thinks that doctor/roleblocker are separate roles.
Aardvarki -- reads the original post, decides that doorlockers are likely both roleblockers, possibly doc+roleblock; notes that Vox was not a vigilante, and was of unknown alignment
weiyaoli -- notes the deadline, doesn't post (promised for Tuesday)
S_E -- Says SK is antitown, speculates about antitown players left
Aardvarki -- long post on antitown players, notes that S_E seems to have pretty concrete ideas that there were initially 3 mafiosos, doesn't like the Uzi flavor, is worried about balance
Lataro -- weak link from weiyaoli to keeneal, confused by S_E, votes F_C
S_E -- says he doesn't know how big the mafia is, but it's often 3 in a small game; wanted all info on the table
Lataro -- wasn't allowed to vote the mod

The good news is that everyone has posted at least once. The bad news is that there is very little content going around. Most of it is trying to squeeze information out of the day start information.

Van has had only one post, and that very short. (Though an important observation)
zerker2000 had two posts -- one a clarification question to S_E, one a joke post.
we're still waiting for weiyaoli to post the promised content.

It's hard to really accuse anybody of lurking, because we're all more or less guilty there. But it would be nice to get some more posting going, particularly from these three.

[weiyaoli]

Yeah sorry, my internet was down most of the afternoon, eating up all the free time I had. I'll try to get on tomorrow if my internet is better though.

Sorry guys.

[Van]

Woo. Am have been absurdly busy lately.

I got a PM during the night, which basically said that I was walking around and heard someone shouting. They said that they were stuck because their door was locked from the outside, that they were going to come out but that then they saw me with an Uzi and stayed inside.

Well, this is weird. It seems moderately pro-town to mention this, though I guess you had no way of knowing if you were the only recipient. I guess there's always the option of lynching you to see if the message you said you got was lying or not. Which doesn't really make sense, but hey.

We seem to be waffling back and forth as to Vox's status, my thought is that since he was the new director, he'd almost certainly be town. Since no one has tried, though...
Can we have a more specific alignment on Vox?

1) Vox was an independent, by himself, with a moderately underpowered ability. (Serial killers acting alone are already very difficult to win with - a lone SK with only an "every other night" kill would be almost impossible)

This is really unlikely, imo. It'd be almost impossible for him to win. If there was a second member on his "independant team", that's like having a second mafia, and probably overpowered vs town, even if they didn't know who their partner was. IMO, the most likely option is that Vox was a town vig, and shared access to the computer room with someone else... possibly a second half-vig, possibly an entirely different role. If F_C answers my question above, that'd clear up a lot of needless mud here.

This is about the only thing I've found that really points to a link to keeneal and another player. Calling him as the one you are most confident is town, when he turned up scum seems kinda fishy. It's not much admittedly, however, right now, I'm not seeing much to go on at all, so..

FoS: weiyaoli

Calling him out for this isn't a huge issue, fingering someone not-scum as strong town is logical: it makes them more likely to like you and paints suspicion on them when you die. I'm suspicious of him, but for a different reason. I'm probably being obnoxiously hypocritical here, but IIRC, weiyaoli has been in several other games that I've read and has always taken a very active, very analytic role in them. This game, he's been fairly silent and lurky with the exception of one post. He also unvoted Vox before the deadline, which.. I'm not sure is an indicator of anything, it was honestly too close to deadline for it to really have an effect. I don't really have a lot to go on here, and weiyaoli says he "might" be able to post tomorrow, so consider this a motivator:

Vote: weiyaoli

[Flying_Cookie]

Vox was an independent serial killer.

[mpolo]

Hmm... The time is rapidly running out, and I won't be around for the rest of today. Which means I have to vote based on practically no information.

vote: weiyoali

There was the tenuous link with keeneal, combined with extreme lurkiness (although he says that this was due to Internet outage. Presumably I can still get here to move the vote if he gets back, as there is another day or so left.

[weiyaoli]

Yeah, the reason I have been lurky today is because of exams this week and last week and the only free time I had yesterday my internet was down.... :/

That said, I don't see how saying at the very start of D1 that I thought keeneal was the person I was most confident was town makes me scum. At that point I didn't really have anything to go on so as keeneal was the most active person I was more confident he was town than anyone else, which isn't saying very much as I put a whole load of people as neutral or as leaning town/scum.

I'm almost starting to think this is some kind of secret bastard game.

Any reasons you think this? I don't see there being any reason so far to suggest this except for the mod vote landing on yourself but that's obvious since you can't vote for the mod anyway.


As for the Uzi PM. S_E could have just not posted it on thread for us to see if he wanted to hide it. Although he could be trying to be open in case the pm was caused by an action of a player.

[Lataro]

Yeah, the reason I have been lurky today is because of exams this week and last week and the only free time I had yesterday my internet was down.... :/

That said, I don't see how saying at the very start of D1 that I thought keeneal was the person I was most confident was town makes me scum. At that point I didn't really have anything to go on so as keeneal was the most active person I was more confident he was town than anyone else, which isn't saying very much as I put a whole load of people as neutral or as leaning town/scum.

I'm almost starting to think this is some kind of secret bastard game.

Any reasons you think this? I don't see there being any reason so far to suggest this except for the mod vote landing on yourself but that's obvious since you can't vote for the mod anyway.


As for the Uzi PM. S_E could have just not posted it on thread for us to see if he wanted to hide it. Although he could be trying to be open in case the pm was caused by an action of a player.

As I said, I don't think that post where you said you thought he was the most townie was much at all. Just that so little has been said that can be analyzed, that as small as it is, in three re-reads, it's what jumped out at me as the closest thing to anyone linked with keeneal. I didn't vote on it because it wasn't much.

As for why I am starting to suspect this is a bastard game. I have no real evidence yet so I'm reluctant to spill a boatload of wine into the situation, but it has to do primarily with this game's setup, not because the vote for the mod went on me. As of now, I need to wait for more information to confirm my suspicions before I'd be willing to spill that boat of wine.

[Flying_Cookie]

Votes
weiyoali: 2 (Van, mpolo)
7 people... 4 to lynch.
Deadline tomorrow.

[weiyaoli]

I don't like the lynch atm. Obviously partly because it's me but also because so many people are lurking. Only 2 people have voted, and only a few people have posted recently especially in mind of the deadline. This is supposed to be a mini.... :/

I guess I'll vote one of them:

Vote: zerker

[Aardvarki]

This game feels like it's full of lurkers. Though, I've been lurking more than I should be too - really, it seems like everyone is guilty of it. I think that seems like a problem with closed setups.

I'm not a huge fan of a Weiya lynch on so little evidence, but the link between him and Keeneal is one of the very few pieces of evidence we have against ANYONE - mostly because everyone is lurking.

The only other people I feel one way or the other about are S_E and Lataro. S_E for the Uzi flavor, which most people have agreed was a townie action by sharing; and Lataro for suggesting he knows more than the rest of us but not sharing his information. Unfortunately, none of these feelings is strong enough to justify a vote.

I must say, I'm quite disappointed that we really don't have anything to go on here.

[Lataro]

That's the problem Aardvarki, I don't KNOW. I suspect something.

It's not that I have more information exactly, it's that I've got a bad feeling about something and don't have any facts to back it up yet. It would do town absolutely no good at all for me to say what I think is going on, without being able to prove it.

When I have any kind of evidence at all to support this bad feeling, I'll share it, but until then, all it would do is create confusion and could easily lead to a town loss.

[Flying_Cookie]

Votes
weiyoali: 2 (Van, mpolo)
zerker2000: 1 (weiyoali)
7 people... 4 to lynch.

With the day nearing to a close, the number of those who gathered to discuss who they thought should be killed was even smaller, eventually being decided by just two people. Without much enthusiasm, they gathered up some cords, and made a noose for weiyoali to swing from, and went off to bed.

[Lataro]

Can we get/start getting a deadline on nights?

[Flying_Cookie]

The Next Morning, the patients gathered around weiyaoli's body, and began to search through it for some clues to his identity. They didn't have to look long, finding that he was a card carrying member of the local Mason organization. A bit more searching revealed nothing, except that Lataro was missing! Oh Noes!
They found the clown laying face up on his bed, dead, with his life support unplugged. How horrible!

Just like the day before, the Intercom went on:
"Your slowing down, only two people died last night. Try and pick up the pace again, or you'll be stuck here much longer than you could want to be. Well, I suppose its time to broadcast the results of your fun. First, Weiyaoli was a member of the Masons. Tsk. Tsk. Second! Lataro was a member of the local Mafia.
Five more to go, good luck."

[mpolo]

As Lataro did yesterday, I now have a feeling that something funny is going on. (If I had been paying attention, I would have been convinced of that yesterday.) In particular, I strongly suspect that there are no masons around who would recognize weiyoaoli as one of their own. That is, our roles as revealed are not related to our roles as we act them out.

I think that we are all mental patients who are acting like what we think we are, but actually we are something else altogether. As a result, I'm going to come out and say --

I think that I am mafia, and keeneal and Lataro were not on my team, while weiyoaoli was (I was hoping that some movement in the game would have allowed me to move my vote from the weak weiyoali bandwagon, but lethargy kept me stuck where I was voting.)

I have no idea where to go with this, as I no longer know what my win condition is.

[Van]

Wait, what?

You thought you were mafia with weiyoaoli? I'm assuming you could communicate. Were you told you were mafia? Did you have a NK?

I could actually see this making sense. From memory, keeneal was also announced as scum, right? And promptly after that is when Lataro said this had to be a bastard game. It's a stretch, but a realistic one, that the mafia were told they were masons and vice versa. On the other hand, all we have is your word, and some facts we're trying to make fit the situation. Jester, maybe? Seems odd to lay low and then wait until D3 to try and get lynched, but.