Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

[Keldaran]

Well, Exams are coming up and i will have time to design a logo for the church, but i think that flag designs should be submitted then nominated then voted in existence

[She]

In the spirit of Qiusquamism the flag should really be some template that's easily recognizable, but has a blank space in the middle where pretty much anything can fit. This would also require a lot of different flag to be made (with assorted objects like fruits, ducks, pens, silhouettes, smileys, bombs, bob-ombs, window panes, rhombi... you get the idea) which would cycle randomly so you never know what you get. But that's a bit too much work so we should decide on something that really gets across the notion of "this could be anything, really, We just picked this particular thing for no reason in particular." Like a broom or a clothes hagner or some other inconspicuous household object.

[squareroot]

Maybe a picture of a cardboard box filled with miscellanea?

[Keldaran]

i am thinking a cube floating in a void.

[kerfuffleninja]

I picture the god of nothing in particular as a guy with a beard in flowing robes, shrugging and saying "meh."

Edit: Maybe the most appropriate flag would just be a plain white piece of fabric then. Otherwise, we could just keep hitting "random article" on wikipedia and adding pictures of whatever comes up until the flag is full.

[skellious]

perhaps we should just make something then change it whenever we feel like it it could be a "thing" we do like posting "it's 12:18pm on a sunday in july, and the holy cat of knowledge is in the dog house, so the flag must be changed to a picture of a scateboarding hippo - here endeth the lesson" then change it to said flag :p

[Keldaran]

Spoiler:

spoilered for big

how does this look?

EDIT: also as the church i will change it every 2nd and 4th Tuesday of each month as those are our holy days

[e^iπ+1=0]

I just clicked random a bunch of times on wiki. Most of the articles didn't even have pictures. Then I came to an article which had this image and I rather liked it:

[Keldaran]

i like it to, it could be the kingdom crest?

[e^iπ+1=0]

Well it's currently Szeged's coat of arms, but yes, we could probably borrow it.

[Keldaran]

hmm, this brings up a thought i had earlier, maybe each house could have a crest we use to denominate the holdings on the map?

EDIT:
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5122/onlinemapxz5.jpg
this could be the map of the new kingdom?
it would be very nice if randall would let us use it

[e^iπ+1=0]

Well if we're going that route, the easier image to use would be http://xkcd.com/195/

[skellious]

can we PLEASE make our own content? We can use other stuff for now but id like to see it replaced with custom content eventually.

[e^iπ+1=0]

Yeah, I guess you're right. Custom content would probably be best.

[Keldaran]

well, my intention was, we use the map of social communities as our map of the globe, and we raise an island of munroevia (read shop) and create a smaller map to represent it in more detail

[skellious]

oh, i guess that could work. I jsut really enjoyed making that last map and would like to make another one

[kerfuffleninja]

perhaps we should just make something then change it whenever we feel like it it could be a "thing" we do like posting "it's 12:18pm on a sunday in july, and the holy cat of knowledge is in the dog house, so the flag must be changed to a picture of a scateboarding hippo - here endeth the lesson" then change it to said flag :p

I like this idea, combined with king E's "blank space in the middle" idea, combined with Keldran's change it on holy days idea. Perhaps we could have one flag, with a blank space in the middle that gets changed on holy days.

Ps- Nomic 6.0's half-birthday is Wednesday, June 30, 2010! Surely, we could organize some sort of festivities for this.

[skellious]

leave it to the church to orgaise a festival!

[kerfuffleninja]

I vectorized a section of http://xkcd.com/709/, and used it as a basis for a flag. The random object of the arbitrary time period could be placed in the middle of the burst there, where the burning bush would otherwise be located.

This is my proposal for a flag. Thoughts? Attached is an example of this procedure, using a rubber duck.

[skellious]

Proceed

[Levi]

I think it might be best to make the object gray and white so it doesn't clash with the rest of the flag.

[skellious]

I think it might be best to make the object gray and white so it doesn't clash with the rest of the flag.

Something like this?

[She]

How's that court coming along?

[skellious]

slowly... im afraid it's been... caught in the post *ba-dum ting!*

[kerfuffleninja]

I think it might be best to make the object gray and white so it doesn't clash with the rest of the flag.

Or we could change the flag's color scheme to match the object. I can post the svg Monday if you'd like.

Edit: Never mind, I can post it now! Here is an example of the flag recoloring. The forum doesn't let me upload svgs. The blank flag can be found on the wiki at File:Munroevia_flag.svg.

[skellious]

YYYYEEEEESSS

MORE OF ALL OF THIS PLEASE I shall make some too

[Levi]

On Munroevia

Each quarterland shall have a number (including zero (0)) of the following resources, though not multiples of the same type:

• Food
• Gold
• Wood
• Stone
• Metal

Each quarterland shall have one (1) of the following types of terrain. Each terrain provides a modification to armies' statistics when on that terrain. This modification is noted by the terrain types on the list. A percentage value refers to the chance and army will win a battle.

• Mountainous: 1/2 Speed, +25%
• Hilly: +10% A/D
• Swampy: 1/2 Speed, -15%
• Desert: -10%
• Wooded: +15%
• Icy: 1/2 Speed, -15%
• Snowy: 1/2 Speed, -20%
• Grassy
• Water: Impassible
• Shallow Water: 1/2 Speed, -10%
• Bridge

Each quarterland shall have some amount of population, starting with 1 and gaining another every week on Saturday up to a maximum of five (5).

A map of Munroevia, depicting all these characteristics along with all the locations mentioned in the Law, capitals, and any buildings which have been built, shall be drawn by the official Cartographer, appointed by the King at court, and given a page on the Munroevia Wiki (henceforth referred to as "the Wiki"). The map shall also show which quarterlands are held by whom. The Cartographer may resign or be impeached by the King at court.

There shall be a page on the Wiki containing a list of all players ("players" refers to anyone playing the game, including the King, the Pope, and anyone without land holdings) and their holdings (resources and armies). Negotiations for trade may be conducted through Private Messages, but the final trade must be announced in the Munroevia thread. Armies, resources, and quarterlands may be traded. Buildings may be rented for any amount of time and for any number or armies, resources, or quarterlands. The negotiations for renting may also be held through Private Messages, but must be announced in the thread. In order to trade or rent, there must be a path, unblocked by any hostile armies or land held by a player who refuses to allow passage, between the capital city of every player involved in the transaction.

Alliances of any form between players are at the players' discretion.

After the map is drawn, each noble shall choose a quarterland on which his capital city is to be built, starting with the player holding the most land and ending with the player holding the least (only players holding land may do this). Players shall take turns, in the same order as when choosing capitals, choosing up to three quarterlands to be their own, until they have selected the number of quarterlands they own. Quarterlands selected must be adjacent to quarterlands previously selected by the player selecting (the quarterland on which a player's capital has been built has been selected by that player) unless this is impossible, in which case the player may select unselected quarterlands from anywhere on the map.

An Architect shall be appointed by the King at court. This Architect shall design buildings which can then be built by any player who holds land. The Architect may resign or be impeached by the King at court.

Armies may take one (1) action per turn. Moving and attacking count as one (1) action, but no other combinations of actions count as a single action. Armies must be built at a player's capital or some building that the Architect designs. Up to three (3) armies may exist on the same square. Quarterlands may be captured by an army if there is no population on the quarterland the army is on. An army may kill one (1) population per day. No more than one (1) population per quarterland may be killed per day.

Armies cost 1 Food, 1 Metal, and 1 Gold. They cost 1 Gold of upkeep per week, to be deducted each Saturday. One army may be built per army-creating building per day. Armies may move up to four (4) squares per day, unless obstructed by terrain. Armies may not move diagonally. When armies battle, there is a 50/50 chance that either will win, unless affected by terrain. The losing army is destroyed. When multiple armies are battling, the losing side loses one (1) army.

This is a petition and it is signed by yours truly. I probably missed something important, but here it is.

[skellious]

you have not defined how many squares armys can move, how the combat result is determined, how the army can kill population (since if they occupy the square it has their own population, and if they dont they cant kill them) and probably some other stuff, but I like and support everything here.

[She]

Points of interest:
- The randomisation of battle outcome lacks in several ways. Firstly we don't know how, when and who are going to roll the dice, and secondly we don't know what kind of dice (or random.org) to roll. Thirdly we don't know for certain what happens when "two armies have 50/50 chance to win" is modified by "+10%". Is that percent units, so that the chance is 40/60, or is it percentage, meaning 10% of 50=5 thus 45/55? Or maybe even 55/50 since the other army isn't affected? And fourthly, the other army is affected, that's the problem; armies battle when one enters the other's quarterland, so both armies get the same bonus all the time.
- This is one big rule, at least when compared to the ones currently in the Law. Following tradition is not mandatory, but I'd prefer this split up in several rules, and maybe even wach rule split up in several bullet points to keep in style. Also some concepts do well by being defined on their own. For instance, the wiki deserves a rule of its own rather than just a "by the way" clause in the resource rule - "right, we also use this wiki to keep track of all this stuff."
- The secondary apportion of land, i.e. Nobles handing it to vassals, isn't really acknowledged. It should at least be mentioned that the noble has full power over which quarterlands comprises whose fief and that vassals treat land like nobles. Also there's already a word for player in the definition you include: Citizen is already defined elsewhere.

I like all the gameplay you include, but will not support this version, mostly because of the incomplete fighting system but also due to the other points raised.

[skellious]

oh yer when i said support it wasnt an official i support THIS version :S

She I think he intends that the terrain bonus for the tile the attacking army is comming FROM modifiys the attacking army and the defenders are modified by the defending tile.

[She]

That's probably what he meant, yes, but the petition doesn't really support that. In fact it never explicitly states when two armies can battle (as far as I can see at least) but hints at the version where one army has to move into another's area. It does this by mentioning moving and attacking as one action. At least to me it feels more natural to say that if you mean that you move into the other army's area and then attack, rather than getting to move up next to the army, attack it from one quarterland away, and then when the other army is dead simply stay put in the land next to it. Armies generally can't fight over a distance of a quarterland (okay, that's an area measurement, but you get what I mean).

[skellious]

they fight on the boarder, it's based on the Civilization combat system as far as i can see. Yes this is unclear and requires refinement, but an admirable start none the less. when I am well again I shall participate more in the actual writing of systems.

[e^iπ+1=0]

The court is now in session!

Many citizens have declared support for She's petition and none have declared opposition to it. Thus it is passed.

No one has declared (official) support for Levi's petition and She has declared opposition to it. Thus it is not passed. [Good start, but it needs work. Work on it for the next court.]

Also, I declare that the subsections of Law 102 should be re-lettered.

Law:

Spoiler:

100.
a) e^iπ+1=0 is the King. The King has absolute power, with the exception of being bound by the following rules.
b) The king shall keep a list of citizens, which must include anyone who has posted since the last court and may include anyone who has ever posted in this thread.
c) Some citizens are nobles, and shall be noted as such by having their names emboldened on the list. The king may only award or remove noble status as allowed by the law.

101.
a) The Kingdom of Munroevia measures 50 quarterlands of fine land, which is apportioned among the nobles as their counties. It is never split into smaller parts than quarterlands.
b) The Monarch shall keep a list of each noble's land entitlement, and may change these entitlements when holding court. Only nobles may own land, but vassals may rule part of a noble's land for them as their fiefdom.
c) The Monarch does not hold any land apart from their Palace, the Capital city and the immediate surrounding area, which shall be regarded as the Monarch's county for the purposes of all references in law to a citizen's county or fiefdom. The size of this land is static and has no bearing on the Monarch's ability or right to rule.

102.
a) Court shall be held at least once a month but no more than three times a week.
b) Court is held for one day and may not be held again for a clear day after the ending of the last session.
c) The Monarch holds court by declaring "The court is now in session".
d) Court order proceeds in the following manner;
i) The Monarch examines the proportion of citizens who have declared themselves in favour of and against each petition, with regard to the proportion of land they control.
ii) The votes of nobles are weighted according to the total size of their county, including any fiefdoms within them. The votes of vassals are weighted according to the size of their fiefdoms.
iii) If the proportion of land in favour is found to make up greater than 2/3 of the votes, the Monarch is bound to pass the petition into law or otherwise act upon it.
iv) If the proportion of land in favour is found to make up less than 1/4 of the votes, the Monarch may not pass the petition into law or otherwise act upon it.
v) The Monarch now signs and publishes the revised law of the land.
vi) The monarch now publishes the latest SUMMARY OF THE LAW generated by Lord Kerfuffleninja.
vii) The Monarch may now reapportion the land among the nobles. E then publishes the list of all citizens, which includes who is a noble and all nobles' land entitlement. A noble holding land may not have his holdings reduced to less than 1 quarterland. A Noble not owning any land may be removed from the ranks of nobility. A vassal ruling a fiefdom of at least 5 quarterlands can, if their master has given their agreement, be ennobled receiving their previous fiefdom as their county. If a noble's county is reduced to smaller that the total size of the fiefdoms within it, those vassals within the county with the largest fiefdoms shall have their fiefdoms turned into counties until this problem is resolved.
e) One day after Court was declared it closes, and in the time until the next Court citizens may write petitions and declare their stance on petitions.
f) Stance is declared in a manner such that it is unambiguous as to a citizen's support of the petition.
g) Citizens who do not wish to support a petition may abstain or declare their objection to it.

103.
a) The name of this kingdom is Munroevia.

104.
a) A citizen who is not a vassal or a noble may become the vassal of any noble by accepting an offer of a fiefdom from a noble and swearing them an Oath of Fealty. They are then granted the specified amount of land as their fiefdom.
b) A noble may have their land divided among several vassals, and may keep parts of it under their personal rule.
c) Nobles may tax their vassals in any way they so choose.
d) A vassal may break their oath and give up their fief at any time, in order to solicit offers from nobles for a new fiefdom. A noble may release a vassal from their service, causing em to cease to be a vassal, at any time.
e) Nobles may trade land between them freely. If a noble's county size decreases so that their vassals cannot rule as much land as they used to, the noble is responsible to reapportion their land as soon as possible. Neither the noble nor their vassals can vote until this has been done.
f) Vassals to the same noble may trade land between them.
g) The King should not without good reason change the land entitlement of two nobles who have traded land between them.

105.
a) If a noble is removed from the list of citizens, their county is transferred to the citizen e has named as their successor. If that citizen is not a noble, all their previous Oaths are voided and e is ennobled. If such a citizen does not exist, the citizen who has been the former noble's vassal for the longest time is appointed. If no such vassal exists, the Monarch shall appoint a citizen when next holding court.
b) If a vassal is removed from the list of citizens, their fiefdom is returned to the noble.

106.
a) Any Citizen may pen a petition when court is not in session. However, a petition is not official until it has been signed by a Noble or powerful vassal who is willing to put eir fame and standing behind the suggested changes. A posted petition indicated as finished by its writer may be signed by anyone controlling at least 5 quarterlands; this person is thereafter known as its Grantor. When a petition is passed, its Grantor is moved one step upwards on the list of citizens; when it is rejected e is moved one step downwards.

A Summary of the Law 06.04.10.pdf

(826.52 KiB) Downloaded 45 times

List of citizens:
Raptortech97: 20 ql
Skellious: 15 ql
Kerfuffleninja: 15 ql
She (vassal under Kerfuffleninja): 6 ql
Eggdudeguy (vassal under Skellious): 5 ql
Levi (vassal under Kerfuffleninja): 5 ql
Squareroot (vassal under Skellious): 5 ql
King e^iπ+1=0
Keldaran
Tastelikecoke [required by Law 100 subsection b, or I'd leave him off]

[kerfuffleninja]

You had to do it that way? You couldn't just make She's new law 103? Hear that? That's the entire wiki, groaning in pain.
I'll update the law list and Template:LOTL, but I am not changing/moving all those pages. Someone else can be my guest.

[e^iπ+1=0]

I already renumbered the laws last court, before the wiki was created. Not my fault if you copied an out of date version of the Law. The only thing that should have needed to be changed is that I re-lettered the last couple points of Law 102 and added the new Law 106.

[kerfuffleninja]

I already renumbered the laws last court, before the wiki was created. Not my fault if you copied an out of date version of the Law. The only thing that should have needed to be changed is that I re-lettered the last couple points of Law 102 and added the new Law 106.

Well, my bad then. I just looked through the court posts and copied the latest one, neglecting the "I renumber the law" post below it. My deepest apologies to our great king.

[kerfuffleninja]

My brain is unable to digest this warfare system when no law numbers are specified. Literally. My brain just stops. I need a tl;dr. Or something.

I pen the following petition:
That law 107 be enacted, to read as follows:
107.
a) The national flag is to be changed the second and fourth Tuesdays of every month.
i) A list of potential flag candidates is to be kept at http://myexactthoughts.com/nomic/index. ... Candidates
ii) All flags are to be based upon the template at http://myexactthoughts.com/nomic/index. ... a_flag.svg
iii) Every second and fourth Tuesday of the month, Keldran shall choose that flag from the list of candidates which most tickles his fancy. He shall than upload a 100 pixel wide copy of that image to http://myexactthoughts.com/nomic/index. ... t_flag.png. This now becomes the flag of the arbitrary time period.

That law 108 be enacted, to read:
108.
a) The wiki is located at http://myexactthoughts.com/nomic/
b) The wiki should be kept up to date with the current version of the law.

Edit: Damn you, filters, and your adding quotes around the world literally. And making it lowercase.

Oh, yes. I sign this petition and vote for it. Bam.

[She]

I would vote for both of my masters petitions, but I'm afraid they're not valid. For no good reason court is still considered to be held for 24 hours, and before it closes no petitions can be written.

[102.e) One day after Court was declared it closes, and in the time until the next Court citizens may write petitions and declare their stance on petitions.]

[skellious]

I support Lord K's petition.

Edit: Lady She ninja'd and said I cannot do this. I keep forgetting that. I put that type of rule in back when petitions could be edited during court and became fixed after court. now the system has changed so they are not valid (and therefore fixed) until backed by a noble, there is no reason to still have this rule... (unless anyone can name one?) and so i think we could remove it. any thoughts?

[kerfuffleninja]

Why do we still have that rule? When I validly repost my petition, I'm fixing that too.