Team Fortress 2

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Vaniver
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Vaniver » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:02 pm UTC

I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Awia » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:11 pm UTC

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Jar'O'Jam » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:29 pm UTC

Valve underestimated the interest in the update. The page was unreachable long before the blog post came.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Awia » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:59 pm UTC

Aaaand the first weapon is announced, on the same page.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Ishindri » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:27 am UTC

I'll be very interested to get my hands on the Frontier Justice. First instinct was that it was a bit powerful, but when I think about it, halving the magazine capacity is a fairly strong mitigating factor. I think I'll be using it regardless, though.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby CombustibleLemons » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:25 am UTC

Ishindri wrote:I'll be very interested to get my hands on the Frontier Justice. First instinct was that it was a bit powerful, but when I think about it, halving the magazine capacity is a fairly strong mitigating factor. I think I'll be using it regardless, though.

When do you get the crits though that's my question. when the engie runs out just use that opportunity to destroy the senrty.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Ishindri » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:57 am UTC

Presumably they're immediately added to your 'reservoir' after the sentry kills something or is killed. I wonder if there will be a way to track the number of crits you have in reserve.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Phen » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:34 am UTC

http://www.teamfortress.com/engineerupdate/wrenchlog/

RIght now, you can get a golden wrench through crafting. There's about 60 left, I think. As far as I know, it's random when you try to craft. Unfortunately I didnt get anything :(
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby SoapyHobo » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:39 am UTC

That's not very surprising, considering there are (according to the steam stats page) around 30,000 people playing TF2. With 60 left to get you have a 0.2% chance of getting one when you craft something.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Jar'O'Jam » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:09 am UTC

SoapyHobo wrote:That's not very surprising, considering there are (according to the steam stats page) around 30,000 people playing TF2. With 60 left to get you have a 0.2% chance of getting one when you craft something.

Slightly higher since not everyone is crafting stuff.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Awia » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:20 pm UTC

But still extremely bad odds all the same.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Phen » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:45 pm UTC

The cold reality of statistics does nothing to console me.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Jar'O'Jam » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:57 pm UTC

Phen wrote:The cold reality of statistics does nothing to console me.

An unintended pun about consoles not getting yet another update ? :)
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby guyy » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:45 pm UTC

SoapyHobo wrote:That's not very surprising, considering there are (according to the steam stats page) around 30,000 people playing TF2. With 60 left to get you have a 0.2% chance of getting one when you craft something.


It's even worse than that. TF2stats has a page listing when the wrenches appeared, and how many other items were created in the meantime. Based on that, there's at least 10 items generated every second. Even if only half of those are from crafting (which is probably too low, since people are crafting like crazy right now)...that's around 1,296,000 crafted items over the next few days, only 55 of which are wrenches. So it's more like a 0.005% chance of ever getting one if you craft as many items as the average person. Which may be a lot, since some nutcases people crafted all their items trying to get a wrench (and failed).

Not something worth betting on. :P But hopefully the regular items for all us non-lottery-winners will be good.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Phen » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:47 pm UTC

guyy wrote:
SoapyHobo wrote:That's not very surprising, considering there are (according to the steam stats page) around 30,000 people playing TF2. With 60 left to get you have a 0.2% chance of getting one when you craft something.


It's even worse than that. TF2stats has a page listing when the wrenches appeared, and how many other items were created in the meantime. Based on that, there's at least 10 items generated every second. Even if only half of those are from crafting (which is probably too low, since people are crafting like crazy right now)...that's around 1,296,000 crafted items over the next few days, only 55 of which are wrenches. So it's more like a 0.005% chance of ever getting one if you craft as many items as the average person. Which may be a lot, since some nutcases people crafted all their items trying to get a wrench (and failed).

Not something worth betting on. :P But hopefully the regular items for all us non-lottery-winners will be good.

Well, I did. Had a whole backpack full, now I cut down to the essentials. :P
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby guyy » Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:10 pm UTC

Phen wrote:Well, I did. Had a whole backpack full, now I cut down to the essentials. :P


A bunch of people crafted all their items, got no wrench, then went off to the Steam forums to whine about how Valve made them lose all their items by making the wrench. It's that last part that truly makes them nutty. :P

Come to think of it, it's actually a 0.005% chance each time you craft...which is slightly better, but still pretty hopeless.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby broken_escalator » Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:16 pm UTC

I dunno, its probably just a window opens up every x amount of time, and in that window you truly have a chance to get a wrench. A window makes more sense to me because they can control how many wrenches leak out per hour/day/minute. If that is the case then its even lower than that since you're wasting time when the window isn't open.

Also wish i could see the update+comic, but its filtered at work ;;

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby SoapyHobo » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:10 pm UTC

Seems like a really good way of making people get rid of their items to increase demand when they roll out trading in this update.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Phen » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:54 pm UTC

I agree about that. Cleans stuff out. My backpack was full of useless items anyway.

The website claims that there's no limit to the number of wrenches that can be released in a day and that it's done to be "fair" to all timezones. So, make of that what you will.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby EdgarJPublius » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:18 pm UTC

SoapyHobo wrote:Seems like a really good way of making people get rid of their items to increase demand when they roll out trading in this update.


Ha, I already got rid of my items to craft my Fancy Fedora!

except now I don't have anything to craft to try to get a golden wrench...
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Phen » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:10 pm UTC

One in my server got wrench number 48.

GODDAMN YOU, IT IS MINE BY RIGHT.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Ishindri » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:34 am UTC

http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=4034

Day 2: The Wrangler! Allows the Engineer to control his sentry manually. I'm definitely looking forward to this. Also the pictures and names of the Engineer achievements, and a new payload map.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby PCal » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:52 am UTC

The wangler doesnt seem that useful but it might be an upgrade to the pistol. However with two engies if the wangler lets you shoot stickies you might be able to build an invincible nest but it seems more like something fun to use then useful

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby mmmcannibalism » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:37 am UTC

PCal wrote:The wangler doesnt seem that useful but it might be an upgrade to the pistol. However with two engies if the wangler lets you shoot stickies you might be able to build an invincible nest but it seems more like something fun to use then useful


It seems to me this will make spies even more necessary to fighting engineers; they will have to switch weapons and disabling their sentry to fight off whoever saps them.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:45 am UTC

What, making a level 1 sentry fire like a level 2 and be as hard to kill as a level... 4.5? isn't worth anything? It will be amazing in arena, if it can be aimed fairly easily.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Vaniver » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:49 pm UTC

I wonder if the Wrangler will make it so sentries can fire past their normal autotarget range?
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby ProZac » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:57 pm UTC

I wonder if you have to be in sight of the sentry to take control, or can you sit safely within the confines of the starting area and control it from there.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Rakysh » Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:14 pm UTC

The Wrangler seems to me to be a big ol' "BACKSTAB/HEADSHOT PLOX!" sign. Assuming you can't move while using it. I like the idea of the shotgun, I think. A pissed engi going on a rampage after his 20 kill sentry gets sapped would be pretty cool.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Xeio » Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:27 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:I wonder if the Wrangler will make it so sentries can fire past their normal autotarget range?
Well, I don't recall how far the bullets travel (they generally hit their mark), but missles seem to fly some unspecified distance past max range when fired if they miss.
Rakysh wrote:The Wrangler seems to me to be a big ol' "BACKSTAB/HEADSHOT PLOX!" sign. Assuming you can't move while using it. I like the idea of the shotgun, I think. A pissed engi going on a rampage after his 20 kill sentry gets sapped would be pretty cool.
Sure, but you can now spy check with your sentry... :P

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby CombustibleLemons » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:02 pm UTC

When I first saw the wrangler I thought you just shot at people with the wrangler to control it. But what you guys describe is much better.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Awia » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:14 pm UTC

We'll see who's right on Thursday/Friday.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby thc » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:34 pm UTC

Tbh, the wrangler seems pretty overpowered. One of the best options against sentries was the ability to "edge" it, using the slight delay in firing to shoot at it, then retreat behind a wall. The ability to fire indefinitely at corners means that a well coordinated engie defense will probably only be beaten by a buttload of ubers.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Vaniver » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:38 pm UTC

thc wrote:The ability to fire indefinitely at corners means that a well coordinated engie defense will probably only be beaten by a buttload of ubers.
It seems like ammo concerns will still be a problem, unless a dispenser is able to supply a wrangled sentry, and the three seconds it's disabled are ample time to charge in.

Yeah, you could have two engineers wrangling sentries on the same spot, and trading off, but if you have two engineers per choke point I don't think the wrangler makes it significantly less penetrable.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby thc » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:59 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:
thc wrote:The ability to fire indefinitely at corners means that a well coordinated engie defense will probably only be beaten by a buttload of ubers.
It seems like ammo concerns will still be a problem, unless a dispenser is able to supply a wrangled sentry, and the three seconds it's disabled are ample time to charge in.

Yeah, you could have two engineers wrangling sentries on the same spot, and trading off, but if you have two engineers per choke point I don't think the wrangler makes it significantly less penetrable.

I'm thinking about payload and capture maps where you often get 5+ engies running around. You'd only need one or two engies running around refilling ammo, and actually, you'd realistically, you'd only need one or max two wranglers to counter edging completely.

ANYWAY, theorycraft is theorycraft. I guess we'll see soon enough :)

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Xeio » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:13 pm UTC

thc wrote:Tbh, the wrangler seems pretty overpowered. One of the best options against sentries was the ability to "edge" it, using the slight delay in firing to shoot at it, then retreat behind a wall. The ability to fire indefinitely at corners means that a well coordinated engie defense will probably only be beaten by a buttload of ubers.
Sentries do have ammo, this isn't "Fire indefinately", it's a lot, but not infinite. I also thing you underestimate how accurate sentries are in general (the biggest issue is their missile missing, but even that can be negligible). Also, sentries are paper thin, even with an additional 60% hp, that means that without a second engineer helping you repair/reload, your sentry will be extra vulnerable (and probably toast the first time you disengage since 3 seconds is a lot of time).
thc wrote:I'm thinking about payload and capture maps where you often get 5+ engies running around.
If you play servers that allow more than 4 engineers on ANY map, you deserve to fail on offense.

But, you make a good point about the theorycraft (theoryfortress?), we shall see.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Ishindri » Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:33 am UTC

Day 3: Valve is fucking with our heads. A new map, tantalizing hints of the new wrench, and a hidden link indicating MOVABLE BUILDINGS.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Xeio » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:18 am UTC

I wonder what happened to Watchmaker|'s profile. It was linked at the bottom of the page, but it didn't seem particularly relevant to anything. Now the profile doesn't exist.

Also, did you guys see that someone (either person #26 or #27, I don't remember exactly) destroyed their wrench yesterday?

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby EdgarJPublius » Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:33 am UTC

Ishindri wrote:Day 3: Valve is fucking with our heads. A new map, tantalizing hints of the new wrench, and a hidden link indicating MOVABLE BUILDINGS.


Movable buildings actually makes a lot of sense. The over-all theme of the updates has generally been changing how classes play and sort of shoring up their weak spots, and the earlier posts that mentioned ideas for the engineer update specifically seemed to be about giving the engineer some more mobility. Buildings that would allow the engineer to leave his nest didn't do so well, but a mobile nest might be a better way to achieve a similar ultimate goal.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:51 am UTC

Xeio wrote: Also, sentries are paper thin, even with an additional 60% hp, that means that without a second engineer helping you repair/reload, your sentry will be extra vulnerable (and probably toast the first time you disengage since 3 seconds is a lot of time).

Uh, the shield absorbs 66% of incoming damage. The sentry effectively has 3 times its usual health. Imagine one wrangled sentry with another engi repairing it and realise you probably need to one hit it with 8 stickies or it isn't going down. Solution of course being to kill the engis themselves, but it's powerful nonetheless. Especially when it fires at double the speed, it might be rather difficult to aim or even have those sticky bombs survive.

As for movable buildings, the fact that it's a level 2 sentry is almost certainly a clue.

Also 2 more payload maps? Nice.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby SoapyHobo » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:09 am UTC

Xeio wrote:I wonder what happened to Watchmaker|'s profile. It was linked at the bottom of the page, but it didn't seem particularly relevant to anything. Now the profile doesn't exist.

TF2 Blog wrote:[The Golden Wrench] isn't the only melee slot item the Engineer's getting...just a bonus!
Watchmaker|'s Profile wrote:Yes, the WrenchMaker| joke has been made.
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Not relevant to anything?

EDIT: Almost forgot:
http://www.teamfortress.com/engineerupd ... ionaryman/
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