[Normal] Frogzombie - Town win

[tastelikecoke]

post edit too late: *night kill not a lynch*

My guess is if a player turns to a frogzombie, no information will be revealed about him.

[Dr Ug]

I seriously read Instigation as investigation... thus my confusion when I first read that flavour. So we still have a group that claims to be good, and probably is. The possiblility of them both having a kill is still there though. I think either multiple scum-kills (either 2/night which would be strong, or perhaps a single use kill on top of the regular?) or a SK is more likely.

It would be nice to know the alignment of the frogzombies... Despite suggestions from the mod to the opposite, surely the non-reading of spoilers and the non-revelation of alignments suggest that their role in the game is not over yet...

I do agree that TLC's vote hopping is very suspicious. His posts so far today haven't done much to quell my suspicion.

My guess is if a player turns to a frogzombie, no information will be revealed about him.

Hmmm Deep.

Also, even in the voting posts he was very non-commital as Mr K pointed out.

A quick look at the other dead players (will look in more detail later when I have more time):
BXM was suspicious of TLC, Two-fry and Van.
Roadierich didn't really do much, FoS'd KK x 2 (without voting), not really suspicious of anyone else (except NaR and TLC very early on).

The combination of all of the above means I will:

FoS: TLC

This will probably become a vote later, but I am no where near ready for this day to end yet, and would like to hear more from TLC first.

[tastelikecoke]

I know vote hopping is going to make me suspicious, but it's mainly response for weiyaoli's complaint that I voted for no reason at all. My vote's a bit unjustified because I just want the day to end.

any way role specs:
So either:
Double Night Kill by Mafia - we have a lot of unknown roles here, I don't think much for a DoubleNK. My guess is there are roles such as:
SK or Vigilante - usually SKs explain why there are two deaths, (zombification in this case)
Killer Masons - I don't know the proper term, maybe the masons can NK people they believe are mafia.

[mister k]

so, looking at the four who failed to vote

DL- lurked all day, turned up and said he was going to post, then didn't, and thus failed to vote. Certainly not pro-town.

Lataro- bit of game spec, spoke vaguely in favour of a tlc lynch, then gave a large attacking post on tlc... and then voted. Ooops. Apparently I just got that wrong. Accusatin withdrawn..

Mpolo-
game set up murbling, a bigger game setup speculation, all fine (I consider such things fairly neutral, as its an easy thing for scum to do),
agreed with me on a suspicion based post on Van, tlc and infina,
a post refusing to commit to clear suspicion,
a post complaining against the nature of a lurker lynch
a post telling people not to lurk
Asked for KK to speak up
Asked for dp to speak up, and was fine with KK and tlc as long as they kept playing sensibly
promises more the next day
doesn't like the bandwagons, won't vote.

I appreciate not liking either wagon and not voting, but mpolo completely fails to commit to anything day 1. Definitely suspicious to me.

Jayshu-

Agrees with NAR
Agrees with Lataro
makes a joke that tlc is a jester
Defends tlc, and claims that rolespeccing is pretty much finished with (having not contributed much!)
Points out a suspicious post by KK
Agrees with Van, hasn't got much to say

So a failure to commit to much here, or even say that much. however, vitally, Jayshu did pick up on a scummy thing that KK did. While its not impossible for scum to do so, it does make Jayshu less likely to be in frogmafia in my mind, but could still be an independent of some kind.

So of those, mpolo probably feels the worst to me, although DL is up there for lurkiness.

Next up, will look at what KK got up to.

[Not A Raptor]

My hypothesis as to why the frogzombies are separated and there is a rule regulating the reading of spoilers for those who have been zombified is that there is possibly a dezombifying agent present in this game that has yet to use his powers. This is good because it is (effectively) a resurrector. If you exist, do not claim!

[weiyaoli]

Since the lynch made KK dead. I think that means town's lynch is safe from whatever role the frogzombies play.


The 2 NKs must mean there was a vig or SK kill, or as Felltir said, both mafia have a kill somehow. Or just that the mafia have 2 kills but that is frightening! Since there was no differenciation between the two, there isn't any way of telling really.

Since they are dead for all game's purposes, I'd assume that just simply means they can't vote or be voted against. I'll test that now:

Vote: RR

They must do something though if they are on a seperate list.... :/ grr I would have thought we would have known more about them come D2 but I guess not.

I know vote hopping is going to make me suspicious, but it's mainly response for weiyaoli's complaint that I voted for no reason at all. My vote's a bit unjustified because I just want the day to end.

But that isn't a reason to votehop just because I pointed out that your reasoning was a bit iffy for a vote, especially on a bandwagon that was picking up steam so you could just jump on it. You should have at least expanded on why you thought KK was scum other than just I WANT THE DAY TO END! given in your first post.


@mister k
mpolo did vote at the end of the day. literally right at the end.

[mister k]

whoops. OK, well suspicion down graded, but still hovering around. So just jayshu and DL failing to vote then?

[Lataro]

read closer. I did vote...

[Lataro]

ack, didn't see this page, just saw upto your last post on the previous, never mind that comment.

As to who to look towards next, I think we need to take a look at who defending KK D1, and perhaps cross those names with those who had some kind of disagreement with the FZ choices. That may yield some kind of connection.

[mpolo]

I admit that I was very iffy about the Krazyer Kate vote, but in the end, I hammered for lack of a better target. I'm obviously quite happy with the result.

Current thoughts:
I'm pretty sure misterk is town.
DarkLoink is always hard for me to read, but he has posted rather little and didn't vote.
We still need to hear more from dotproduct.

We have two night-kills that convert people into frogzombies (rather than just killing them). Clearly one of them is a mafia kill. The other is more questionable. We also have the disadvantage that night kills don't reveal any information.

I have a stupid two-day course on a new administrative system (which seems designed to create more work for me and prevent my delegating tasks) and am just checking in quickly before bed. Expect tomorrow to be similarly light…

[frogman]

No votes.

[mister k]

eh, so tlc two fry dark loink and maybe mpolo are on my suspicion list right now. As mentioned, someone needs to have a look at KK's posts to see if she gave any tells away. I might get time to do so later. We shall see.

[tastelikecoke]

Vote: RR

Mod: Can you vote Frogzombies?

I know vote hopping is going to make me suspicious, but it's mainly response for weiyaoli's complaint that I voted for no reason at all. My vote's a bit unjustified because I just want the day to end.

But that isn't a reason to votehop just because I pointed out that your reasoning was a bit iffy for a vote, especially on a bandwagon that was picking up steam so you could just jump on it. You should have at least expanded on why you thought KK was scum other than just I WANT THE DAY TO END! given in your first post.

In the unvote post I wrote an admittedly short explanation why, because it was hypocritical, and I have suspicions on dotproduct. After 2 days, the KK lynch already gone for so long. I thought "It's time to revote" and pushed the votal into 8.

I don't know about the textbook definition of votehop, but I voted for the same person, and in the 2 day period I unvoted, no one did vote anyway.

[jayhsu]

Hey guys, I've been pretty busy, sorry for the lack of posts.

Anyway, I'm somewhat surprised that KK was really scum. I guess that really is a scumtell (bandwagoning early in a game with little explanation). Of course, TLC did it too, so it's about 50-50 in my book.

On that note, I am suspicious that TLC would vote KK on the same principle that he was lynched on in another game. Maybe it's meta, but that seems inconsistent to me.

The last three to vote KK were TLC, Lataro and Mpolo, in that order. Also noteworthy is that Mpolo thought it necessary to vote even though KK had the vast majority of votes. I don't have the time right now to search for a modpost stating that a majority of votes would be the lynch (on which subject, Mod can you confirm or deny this?), but I do find that scum often bandwagon near the end to gain town cred (also perhaps indicated in mpolo's post above).

I'm going to wait for the mod answer before analyzing more.

[weiyaoli]

I guess we can't vote for frogzombies afterall.

I think that means they probaly have a less important role than we thought afterall or at least a role that means they are not worth considering in days since we effectively can't vote for them and it seems like they can't vote for us.

[mpolo]

The most annoying thing about the zombies is that we get no information to analyse off of them. That means that our day lynches are more important than ever, as the only new information we get is from those -- that is, lurker lynches are less useful than usual. I'm going to have to do some re-reading to be able to contribute anything new. But I can hardly think straight at the moment. More tomorrow.

[frogman]

I don't have the time right now to search for a modpost stating that a majority of votes would be the lynch (on which subject, Mod can you confirm or deny this?)

A majority of the players voting for someone will result in a lynch. If a deadline is set and then reached, the player with the most votes will by lynched. If there is a tie, a coin will be flipped.

[_infina_]

How about this:

Both MAFIA have a kill.

Is this a statement of fact, or is it a guess. If the Masons have a kill, I would think it would be a kill, not make a frogzombie, because they hate the frogzombies.
Well, in any case, I have a feeling you are town. My big twinges are still TLC and NaR. What it is about them exactly I cannot tell. Although with BXM a frogzombie, I am starting to suspect Van. That might have been the Mysterious Association of Frogzombie Instigation Advocates trying to frame Van, which makes me suspect NaR even more. I shall hold my vote for now, until the some of the rest of the town can weigh in on this.

FoS: NaR

[weiyaoli]

How about this:

Both MAFIA have a kill.

Is this a statement of fact, or is it a guess. If the Masons have a kill, I would think it would be a kill, not make a frogzombie, because they hate the frogzombies.
Well, in any case, I have a feeling you are town. My big twinges are still TLC and NaR. What it is about them exactly I cannot tell. Although with BXM a frogzombie, I am starting to suspect Van. That might have been the Mysterious Association of Frogzombie Instigation Advocates trying to frame Van, which makes me suspect NaR even more. I shall hold my vote for now, until the some of the rest of the town can weigh in on this.

FoS: NaR

What are your reasons for suspecting NAR and for that matter Van?

[Dark Loink]

Well, since I'm...have been lurking, I'll go do this, although I can't say I have the best scumdar-

As mentioned, someone needs to have a look at KK's posts to see if she gave any tells away. I might get time to do so later. We shall see.

And I think I am biased by that fact that KK was scum...so bear with me here.

Spoiler:

FIRST!

My last game didn't go too well, so I probably won't be any better prepared for this one. I'm new, so I'll be looking to the more experienced players for advice. It looks like analysis can get pretty complicated.

This was an opening post, not too much to read into...I don't think. Looking to experienced players for advice? KK was scum...

and I assume the F. is M.A.F.I.A. means frog?

Massive Amphibious Frogs In America?

MAFIA anagram talk. Not really important.

I don't know, but it's been 5 days since he logged in.

edit: oh, I thought we were just repeating ourselves.

About SDG, this isn't important.

So do we lynch the AWOL guy because he isn't here to defend himself, or do we act as if he's innocent until he comes back because even is mafia he won't be casting any nighttime votes?

This goes without saying that this is scummy(KK WAS scum) but that makes you wonder what it is. Does that mean that KK was hoping for an easy lynch, or trying to defend him with wine?

Useless activity, but activity none the less.

I thought we were supposed to lynch the least-active players first, not the most-active.

Let's vote! I want progress!

That's a very mafia-like thing to say, isn't it? Rushing along a lynch? I won't vote because last game convinced me that he's just stupid, but even if he is townie I don't want anyone around who is too eager to bandwagon.

Now then...same as the other thing, intend on lynching none active people. And then saying TLC is being scummy because of bandwagoning...the question is how to think of this. This doesn't hurt TLC's record to me *(KK was scum) yet doesn't help. This could just being trying to contribute, which is likely. I doubt this is scum distancing...there was nothing on KK, and nobody against TLC. It wouldn't make sense at this point in time.

I'm not inactive because I'm not paying attention, I'm inactive because I don't want to speak unless I'm sure I have something to add. Being an active player is a lot tougher than I thought it was.

I suppose the people I'm most inclined to vote for right now are Mister K and tasteslikecoke. Mister K's post here just sounds off to me. I don't know how much I can trust my gut when it comes to this game though, so if I'm the only one with that hunch then it's probably best to ignore it. I'm not the only one that is getting confused by tasteslikecoke, so maybe that's the best vote. I'd much rather go with the rational "hard to figure out what's going on with this guy so we should get rid of him" than the emotional "something doesn't sound right here".

The whole situation revolving around Van has me confused, so I'm not going near that until we get some more information about the parties involved.

More about TLC, and a bit about Mr.K. Talking about how she is trying to look more active in her posts...a scumtell, but it feels a bit odd to say that when we know. Scum wants to look town, town wants to lynch scum. Scum is going to be trying more. Some people are naturally townie, but as mafia its more important.

Since nobody seems to have a better idea, I'm going to go ahead and vote.
Vote: TastesLikeCoke

And now a vote. Wow. Lots of going against TLC, because it was easy. A lot of people were doing it at the time.

*sigh*, I was worried that'd make me look scummy.

Someone said I wasn't being active enough earlier, and there's been one or two 24-hour periods now where there was absolutely no discussion, so I thought I'd be a bit more aggressive in voting so we could keep the game moving. Van earlier looked to me like he was just trying to break the ice, but several people pounced on him, and it looks like a similar thing's happening to me. I guess I'll lurk more, be patient, and let the experienced players work it out.

Now KK has votes...Saying I was being "aggresive to be active, I guess I'll lurk..." Kinda giving up, this doesn't really defend anything. Except Van. It does somewhat. Not quite enough for any sort of connection yet (if I were to consider someone scum, I'd look at their posts as well ) but just something I noticed.

Oh, and I'll
unvote Tastelikecoke
because this post looks a lot more reasonable now that I'm the one getting antsy.

And then suddenly unvotes. As if to say (okay, I'll back off now) and unvotes TLC. The post in question, if you were wondering, was this

Let's vote! I want progress! I want progress fast!
IGMEOY: Van
FoS: Van
Vote: Van

Thoughts?

I think that was what I was trying to say in my first post. I think it makes sense to have a Necromancer in a game full of zombies.

And then Roadie rich did a post by post up to this point. Probably similar to this, except for the we now know KK was scum.

I'm leaning more toward TLC's innocence because being impatient seems less scummy to me due to recent events. I can relate to TLC wanting to count the votes, move on to Day 2, and get some new information. However, rushing to vote is apparently a great way to freak people out, and that discomfort with eager voters threatened Van first, then TLC, and now me. I'm still not clear whether that discomfort is a good thing or not, which is why I kind of flip-flop on the issue. Who's worse for the town, impatient people leading votes prematurely, or quiet people not doing or saying anything?
Anyway, that's what I meant by 'lurking', that I'm going to be a bit more wary of pushing any votes unless I'm absolutely certain that the person is scum. It's a loaded word, and I shouldn't have used it. It seems like the rest of you guys dislike people on the "premature votes" end of the spectrum more than the people on the "discussing but not really acting" end. When I voted I was aware of this, and I thought it might come back to bite me later in the game. I just hadn't thought it would come back so soon. In the future, I'm going to try to tone back the impatience a bit.

But only a bit. I do think that we should choose somebody despite not having nearly enough information. It doesn't look like the game was going anywhere before I voted.

There's a lot of information provided, even in a mislynch. Remember that for the majority of players, it's not about winning yourself, it's about helping your team win, even if it does mean taking a bullet (or a rope aroud the neck).

I had hoped to survive a bit further than just day 1 so I could learn more about how the game works, but I agree with the logic here. When my lynch result comes up "town", the rest of the group will have something to base further discussion off of. It looked like TLC was the best candidate for lynch-testing (hence my vote), but I guess if I'm looking more suspicious, that's fine. Either way, one of us is just going to be glad it was the other guy.

Hm. Interesting. This talks about playstyles, erratic vs careful.
One thing I have to say has already been said

Townie how? Looks more like track covering to me. How often have you seen the "When I come up as town..." argument before?

Again, a lot of talk about TLC. But...again, I do not believe this is scum distancing. Saying she can't vote without the person being absolutely scum wouldn'y make a whole lot of sense (you rarely KNOW the person is scum...well, at least on D1.) as scum it seems to however, set up an excuse. Again, perhaps I'm reading too much into this, KK was scum, we know. I should probably pick a living player next time.

Quick post while I have time. I just got a new job recently (yay!) so my schedule's going to be changing. I don't have as much spare time to think about Mafia, so in-depth posts will take longer. I'll still skim posts, answer direct questions, and other things that I can do in ten minutes, but reading and processing will be a bit tougher. I'd like to try my hand at analyzing some people, but for now I'm probably going to spend most of my time here reading through the votes and making sure I don't get lynched. I can't analyze if I'm dead.

Quick Questions.

Yeah, there's a lot of unknowns. If KK is getting minibussed, would she know enough about mafia yet to not panic and go super defensive? etc

I'm still getting to know the lingo of the game (had to google FOS earlier). What's minibussing? I assume it's similar to band-wagoning.
I don't think I'm really invested enough in the game right now to be capable of panicking. At the moment I'm more annoyed than anything. Is freaking out bad form because it disrupts the discussion, or is it just a scum tell?

Alright then...asking about bussing, and saying that she can't post as much, asking things...I don't think there is too much here, honestly. There could be, but I can't see too much that hasn't been addressed.

And I'm going to jump on the bandwagon because HOLY SHIT 2 FRIGGIN WEEKS
Vote: KrayzerKate

I want to get this day pass by.

So right now I'm getting the sense that one of two things is happening. One, the game was getting stagnant when I voted for TLC, but I was the only one that was getting impatient about it. Now that other people are coming to the same realization, the bandwagon against TLC has kind of died down, so I'm the person to vote for if you want to end Day 1 and get on with the game. A second possibility is that TLC is mafia, and thus his fellow mafia members didn't want a bandwagon forming against him. Now that a townie is in a similar situation, pushing a bandwagon doesn't seem like such a bad idea for scum, and they're jumping on. I don't have the time to go back and see who voted for what, but I'm willing to bet that the people that voted for TLC are a different group from those that are voting for me.

Now KK gives a post making accusations against Two-fry and TLC. I'm going to feel like i'm repeating myself here, this is KK defending herself, and again, I don't think by distancing. Noticing that the groups were different is interesting, and I think we should look into that...KK used it to defend, perhaps we can draw something from it.

Hypothetically speaking, am I allowed to vote for myself?

Near the end, giving up pretty much. I think. Or just wondering. This opened a jester possiblity, but, of course, she wasn't.




ALRIGHT THEN. in short- I think Krazyer Kate is scum!
...
Well, this opens up a few things. What I find interesting is KK noticing bandwagons for TLC and KK were for the most part done by different people. That is something to look into, perhaps. That is really most of what I get from this, as I don't believe, as I've said before, that KK was trying to distance herself from others in these posts.So I didn't get too much from this, but I may not have spent enough time or thoughts on it. I will try to look at another player and/or the bandwagons for TLC and KK. But this is all the time I have for now.

[Two-Fry]

So basically what you're saying is

I think KK was scum, and not to friendly with TLC. Of course this could be scum distancing so that doesn't really tell us anything

So... A long ass-wall of text, which boils down to something we already know, and some pretty weak/meaningless analysis
Well excuse me for saying so, but that doesn't exactly contribute much to the game. In my mind, you still retain semi-lurker status.

[felltir]

How about this:

Both MAFIA have a kill.

Is this a statement of fact, or is it a guess. If the Masons have a kill, I would think it would be a kill, not make a frogzombie, because they hate the frogzombies.
Well, in any case, I have a feeling you are town. My big twinges are still TLC and NaR. What it is about them exactly I cannot tell. Although with BXM a frogzombie, I am starting to suspect Van. That might have been the Mysterious Association of Frogzombie Instigation Advocates trying to frame Van, which makes me suspect NaR even more. I shall hold my vote for now, until the some of the rest of the town can weigh in on this.

FoS: NaR

It's just a theory. I reckon you're right, it doesn't make sense for GMAFIA (good mafia) to make a frogzombie...

[_infina_]

Dr Ug, would you make one of those analysis posts I hear you do on NaR please, I want to be able to place my finger on what it is that strikes me as scummy about him, other than the BXM being turned into a frogzombie thing.

Spoiler:

How about this:

Both MAFIA have a kill.

Is this a statement of fact, or is it a guess. If the Masons have a kill, I would think it would be a kill, not make a frogzombie, because they hate the frogzombies.
Well, in any case, I have a feeling you are town. My big twinges are still TLC and NaR. What it is about them exactly I cannot tell. Although with BXM a frogzombie, I am starting to suspect Van. That might have been the Mysterious Association of Frogzombie Instigation Advocates trying to frame Van, which makes me suspect NaR even more. I shall hold my vote for now, until the some of the rest of the town can weigh in on this.

FoS: NaR

What are your reasons for suspecting NAR and for that matter Van?

Van was the only one to go after BXM, and NaR went after her. NaR would want to frame Van if he was scum.

[Not A Raptor]

Dr Ug, would you make one of those analysis posts I hear you do on NaR please, I want to be able to place my finger on what it is that strikes me as scummy about him, other than the BXM being turned into a frogzombie thing.

Spoiler:

How about this:

Both MAFIA have a kill.

Is this a statement of fact, or is it a guess. If the Masons have a kill, I would think it would be a kill, not make a frogzombie, because they hate the frogzombies.
Well, in any case, I have a feeling you are town. My big twinges are still TLC and NaR. What it is about them exactly I cannot tell. Although with BXM a frogzombie, I am starting to suspect Van. That might have been the Mysterious Association of Frogzombie Instigation Advocates trying to frame Van, which makes me suspect NaR even more. I shall hold my vote for now, until the some of the rest of the town can weigh in on this.

FoS: NaR

What are your reasons for suspecting NAR and for that matter Van?

Van was the only one to go after BXM, and NaR went after her. NaR would want to frame Van if he was scum.

While that would be possible, it's also possible and (statistically speaking) far more likely that BxM was killed because he has a reputation of being good at playing mafia. Indeed, as there were two kills over the night, there's no real reason to assume that the BxM kill was the mafia's at all! If there exists a SK, hitting BxM would be the optimal move for him. It offers two choices of people to frame (Van and I), and can easily be blamed on somebody else. Personally, I would welcome one of Dr Ug's analyses right about now. It might dispel some falsehoods.

I've just realized, though, that I don't exactly have a good read on infinia. Far from being a lurker, his posts have been scattered throughout the thread. Some jive well, and some do not. I'll make a few notes right now.

- He has suspected the same people since at least page 3.
- He spilled the wine (as pointed out by felltir) on page 3.
- Was terse when talking about RR, after he voted for him. Not much reason given. Then again, he was a lurker at the time.
- At the end of page three, suggested that something wasn't right and hopped on the TLC lynchwagon.
- Was mistaken about whether players were in the game or not (deficit of information and correction, or excuse to post little content?)
- Suggested a random lynch on page 4. What the hell? Oh, this was the post before the first vote was laid on KK as well.
- On page 5, admitted not paying much attention to the game, placed an IGMEOY on KK. Scum waiting to see if the lynch was going to happen?
- On page 6, came up with a list of four players he thought was scummy. Gave reasons for two. This is one of the few townish tells I got.

I must say, I don't think I can trust him at the moment.

FoS: -infina-

[_infina_]

Dr Ug, would you make one of those analysis posts I hear you do on NaR please, I want to be able to place my finger on what it is that strikes me as scummy about him, other than the BXM being turned into a frogzombie thing.

Spoiler:

How about this:

Both MAFIA have a kill.

Is this a statement of fact, or is it a guess. If the Masons have a kill, I would think it would be a kill, not make a frogzombie, because they hate the frogzombies.
Well, in any case, I have a feeling you are town. My big twinges are still TLC and NaR. What it is about them exactly I cannot tell. Although with BXM a frogzombie, I am starting to suspect Van. That might have been the Mysterious Association of Frogzombie Instigation Advocates trying to frame Van, which makes me suspect NaR even more. I shall hold my vote for now, until the some of the rest of the town can weigh in on this.

FoS: NaR

What are your reasons for suspecting NAR and for that matter Van?

Van was the only one to go after BXM, and NaR went after her. NaR would want to frame Van if he was scum.

While that would be possible, it's also possible and (statistically speaking) far more likely that BxM was killed because he has a reputation of being good at playing mafia. Indeed, as there were two kills over the night, there's no real reason to assume that the BxM kill was the mafia's at all! If there exists a SK, hitting BxM would be the optimal move for him. It offers two choices of people to frame (Van and I), and can easily be blamed on somebody else. Personally, I would welcome one of Dr Ug's analyses right about now. It might dispel some falsehoods.

I've just realized, though, that I don't exactly have a good read on infinia. Far from being a lurker, his posts have been scattered throughout the thread. Some jive well, and some do not. I'll make a few notes right now.

- He has suspected the same people since at least page 3.
- He spilled the wine (as pointed out by felltir) on page 3.
- Was terse when talking about RR, after he voted for him. Not much reason given. Then again, he was a lurker at the time.
- At the end of page three, suggested that something wasn't right and hopped on the TLC lynchwagon.
- Was mistaken about whether players were in the game or not (deficit of information and correction, or excuse to post little content?)
- Suggested a random lynch on page 4. What the hell? Oh, this was the post before the first vote was laid on KK as well.
- On page 5, admitted not paying much attention to the game, placed an IGMEOY on KK. Scum waiting to see if the lynch was going to happen?
- On page 6, came up with a list of four players he thought was scummy. Gave reasons for two. This is one of the few townish tells I got.

I must say, I don't think I can trust him at the moment.

FoS: -infina-

The random lynch had approximately the same chance of hitting scum d1, and it might have had a better chance if KK wasn't so new. I follow my gut, as it is more often right than wrong. I must say, that is rather heavy for a single FoS. I wonder what you would do if I stepped it up.I will wait and see if Dr Ug will analyze you as I asked before deciding my vote.

[tastelikecoke]

I don't see why infina concluded that NaR is scum, Van only joketelled BxM, I don't suspect Van because of that. Neither would I suggest a complicated reason that Van is framed by NaR. infina's already assuming NaR is scummy.

Infina has always bugged me a lot, lynching random people at D1, then saying "I am testing you" and bandwagons. I wouldn't doubt this is another one of his "tests."

NaR on the other hand, has been joking around with Van in D1. We have no information whether BxM is scum or not, So we can't tell if NaR was framing Van for Nking town or scum. Infina's suggestion isn't likely in the first place.

[Not A Raptor]

I don't see why infina concluded that NaR is scum, Van only joketelled BxM, I don't suspect Van because of that. Neither would I suggest a complicated reason that Van is framed by NaR. infina's already assuming NaR is scummy.

Infina has always bugged me a lot, lynching random people at D1, then saying "I am testing you" and bandwagons. I wouldn't doubt this is another one of his "tests."

NaR on the other hand, has been joking around with Van in D1. We have no information whether BxM is scum or not, So we can't tell if NaR was framing Van for Nking town or scum. Infina's suggestion isn't likely in the first place.

Are you saying that he's not even wrong?

[tastelikecoke]

Yes, similar to the string theory.

[Van]

Hi. I've been obnoxiously busy with work, and haven't done anything except work and sleep for over a week now, but in theory I am off tomorrow night, so I can get caught up and maybe even post something useful!

It'll be cool.

[mister k]

humm. So we have lurky DL posting a long post in which he can't decide whether tlc is scum or not. I admit that KK's actions are slightly conflicting, and really depend on how much new scum she was being like- new scum would probably do their best not to vote for their scum buddies, but then she flip flops enough that she might be trying something clever.

Infina's theory is pretty whacked, and also dude... analyse him yourself? Go through his posts and write a little on each- you don't have to quote each one if you don't want to. So yeah, bit strange. I'm a little worried that tlc and infina's slightly strange play style is throwing me off in both games, however, so I'm probably gonna look elsewhere for the lynch.

That said, I don't actually know who I'm gonna vote for. I think I'll try for a vote tomorrow.

[weiyaoli]

My analysis on infina split into 3 sections for time reasons.

P1-3:

Spoiler:

Hmm... wonder if this will do anything.
Join M.A.F.I.A

Pregame so not really worth much since I doubt he got his role by then.

Spoiler:

So we have a group of masons, and a mafia it appears. I'm guessing three and three for them, leaving twelve other unknowns. not much to talk about other than that right now.
Lataro, you're SDG's replacement, or that's what I'm guessing from your post.

Doesn't really give any reason why he is guessing 3 and 3 for them. He seems pretty confident as well for that guess which came out of nowhere though especially since that was the first and only thing he says apart from asking is lataro is SDG's replacement.

Spoiler:

That would make sense, possibly the zombies post at night time since the pretext said about "the zombies might hear you."

zombies are allowed to still post after they die, that I don't get, the zombies are after all, undead.

It makes sense, but how does one wind up a zombie, and then how does one get rid of said zombie? We will probably find out more about this on D2. But correlation does not imply causation, but it does waggle its eyebrows suggestively at it.

Suggests that we will know more about frogzombies today. A suggestion that he does know more about how this works than we do but I think that was only him saying we will find out more, not we will know how they work by D2.

Spoiler:

OK, reading the flavor again, it appears one must be a living frog first, which may suggest cult or the evil mafia doesn't kill, but instead turns people into frogs. Then, when they are killed, they become frogzombies.
on another note, van, you have become my number one day one suspect for voting using highly faulty logic.
FoS: Van

More rolespec on frogzombies and since the spec was wrong it does seem to now suggest that he probaly doesn't know anything about the zombies although it could be a bluff.
However does seem to take Van's jokey/discussion vote on BxM seriously but not enough to vote.

Spoiler:

I would like to see how TLC would play as mafia, and for all we know, he might be one. It would be good for future reference.
Van, your cunning use of the flavor perturbs me, to this I say #552. You are obviously using the flavor for your BXM argument. The townies "know" correlation equals causation, but this seems like a scum trick to appear town in the beginning.
Van and NaR are most likely either both pro-town or both anti-town. I would highly doubt one of them being pro-town and the other anti-town. Scum arguing is a great way for them to distance themselves, giving a greater chance of winning in the end.
IGMEOY:NaR

Suspicious. Obivously having taken the joke post seriously but how does voting for someone as a joke make anyone appear TOWN? It also doesn't mean anything scumwise for now, an debate on flavour sure but not enough to link them. However it does link BXM in the way that he followed NAR's reasoning without giving his own and NAR and distances BXM and Van. Also I'm sorry if I missed this post being jokey but it doesn't seem overtly so. You're jumping on Van for the smallest points like for the "correlation = causation" bit in the flavour as well.

Spoiler:

I would like to see how TLC would play as mafia, and for all we know, he might be one. It would be good for future reference.
Van, your cunning use of the flavor perturbs me, to this I say #552. You are obviously using the flavor for your BXM argument. The townies "know" correlation equals causation, but this seems like a scum trick to appear town in the beginning.
Van and NaR are most likely either both pro-town or both anti-town. I would highly doubt one of them being pro-town and the other anti-town. Scum arguing is a great way for them to distance themselves, giving a greater chance of winning in the end.
IGMEOY:NaR

Wait, what? They're most likely aligned because they disagreed with each other? Christ, if thats a scum tell everything is! I get the argument, but I'm not sure its particularly strong enough to link both of them quite yet!

I understand that, but from all the d1's I have read through, or the few I have played through, the seem to be on the same side. Generally, there seem to be two townies, mostly vanilla, who start at each other day one. Of course, any scum who had noticed this could do the same thing, hiding one of themselves in the ranks of the town, being looked over for other players on d2. That would be risky, because the person who didn't get lynched could be watched very closely on d2, at least until something else was found that appears to be scummier. It is a bold move, and is generally perpetrated by townies only. I am watching them, but for now, unless a better reason than the fight between them is given.

A bit of meta here and he is right to watch them because the fight doesn't make them town either but his posts so far have all seem to be about this fight and nothing else except for rolespec which is easy for scum to do. It does seem extreme though.

Spoiler:

Sorry, unintentional habit. RR seems to be lurking a little too much. I think I saw just two posts from him, neither had any content. If I am wrong, please correct me.
Vote: RR

Other bit was him saying how to correctly spell his name. A vote for RR over other lurkers though especially as RR had at least remarked on the situationa little unlike milkybee.

Spoiler:

About RoadieRich's post:
It pings me that he wagons with everyone the NaR is scummy. He might as well just said "Yes I agree too!" or "This post generally agrees with everyone."

About Infina's vote:
It's not enough for a vote however, Besides, He's probably just busy modding another game ( [Experimental Mini] Life and Death: Constitutional Democracy in Mafia ). infina's vote is too hasty, like always.

It may be so, but the game is in signups, so there shouldn't be too much to do right at this point, maybe some minor tweaking. My vote is to pull RR back into the game, so it can get moving a little faster. RR was the only one I noticed doing basically nothing, but there may be others doing the same.

Says the vote was a discussion vote and I'll admit I wasn't exactly actively participating at that point but really there were many more people other than RR except for the fact that RR happened to post before he finished. Seems like trying to start a bandwagon for lurking.

Spoiler:

I sense bastardry. keeneal is not a player, and frogman is the only listed mod.
My count puts it at:
TLC - 3 (NaR, dotproduct, KrazyerKate)
RR - 1 (_infina_)
Something ain't kosher here.
Now I think I want the wine gone, so I can search for any more bastardry.
Unvote
Vote:TLC

That makes it 4 votes on TLC.

A bit confused about keeneal as the vote counter and his mistake. But then jumps on the TLC wagon reason similar to everyone else.

CONCLUSION:

Spoiler:

I'll probaly say that his posts were pretty confusing throughout especially his extreme stance on NAR and Van. Only focused on RR as a lurker unlike mister k who gave a list a few posts above even. Slight scum ping so far but not enough to warrent a FoS or a vote just yet especially since this isn't all of his posts.

[_infina_]

Maybe I shouldn't make myself such an easy target for scum. I might survive to day 3 without mod assistance then.

[Van]

I have an urge to randomly say this: DNL looks awesome, but despite the fact I'm not playing and can read spoilers, I have absolutely no clue what is going on in that game. k!

I'm leaning to SKs, having the MAFIA lynch a good dose of two people would be really frustrating, so either an anti or pro town SK/vig.
Unless the masons are SK masons, so they can turn people who they think are mafia into frogzombies too, their motto too is to "surrender to fz overlords".

The possibilities are endless!

Do you post while drunk Y/N

It would be nice to know the alignment of the frogzombies... Despite suggestions from the mod to the opposite, surely the non-reading of spoilers and the non-revelation of alignments suggest that their role in the game is not over yet...

Yes, this. But I seriously cannot figure out what their role could be. If they're specifically singled out as zombified and then start posting again later, um. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I find talking zombies to be suspicious (and somewhat scummy). The only thing that would make sense is if they are somehow un-zombified (as NAR later suggests) which would be a...weird mechanic? I mean, it'd reduce the "special thing" this game has going to "NKing is a several day role/postblock", which I would not describe as particularly noteworthy.

Speaking of

My hypothesis as to why the frogzombies are separated and there is a rule regulating the reading of spoilers for those who have been zombified is that there is possibly a dezombifying agent present in this game that has yet to use his powers. This is good because it is (effectively) a resurrector. If you exist, do not claim!

Yeah, what he said. Also, if there are any cops or doctors, it'd be great if you didn't claim too. This post bugs me, though the intent (speculation) is good, the ending is just unusual. Gah, maybe I am just suspicious of NAR now.

@mister k
mpolo did vote at the end of the day. literally right at the end.

whoops. OK, well suspicion down graded, but still hovering around. So just jayshu and DL failing to vote then?

Why is mpolo less suspicious for casting an 11th hour hammer vote? Nothing short of Bob Dole descending from the heavens with a platter of pizza rolls would've saved KK at that point, and even if he hadn't voted at all, she would've still been lynched. IMO, it is neutral at best, and only because it was some activity.

Although with BXM a frogzombie, I am starting to suspect Van. That might have been the Mysterious Association of Frogzombie Instigation Advocates trying to frame Van, which makes me suspect NaR even more. I shall hold my vote for now, until the some of the rest of the town can weigh in on this.

FoS: NaR

Meh. If I was going to go after BXM, I'd do it in a somewhat more subtle way than having "Vote: BXM" in my sig for two weeks and then doing it in the same game I wrote up a rather long "let's lynch BXM!" D1 post. By subtle, I mostly mean something like I'd post "Now, Brooklynxman, prepare to meet thy doom!!! TBH, I hate you for bringing this up, as I'd honestly already discarded their NK choice, I mean, it's a very obvious target, and just makes things horribly muddy. It could be someone trying to frame me, but that's pretty obvious, so we'd think of that right off, which means it could be someone trying to frame NAR. And thus you see the problem. It boils down to: BXM was a perfect target. An intelligent player, fairly unsuspicious, and in a position that stirs up mud on multiple groups.

Actually, it occurs to me that I'm assuming BXM was the mafia (scum) target. So I step back and look at both the people we lost, and honestly, neither one of them look particularly suspicious. If I had to go out on a limb and assign a townie rating to both of them, I think I would put RR a bit higher than BXM, which would make him a better target for scumkill, except for the mud potential. RR seems unusual to me. Admittedly, he didn't participate a ton, but I don't see much that would have made him a target for a vig/SK. If the second kill was also scum (oneshot?), it could jive, I guess...

And then I come to the _infina_/NAR... thing. I'm not really sure what to call it. _infina_ posts a short blurb on why he thinks NAR is suspicious, and NAR essentially does a huge OMGUS. I went through NAR's reply a bit, and while it mostly seems okay:

Was mistaken about whether players were in the game or not (deficit of information and correction, or excuse to post little content?)

shows NAR was just using post history and/or is trying to paint _infina_ in a bad light. What actually happened:
keeneal, votekeeper, posts votals If you skip to that post, _infina is not the only one confused, he's actually the 3rd to reply to it by saying "I sense bastardry. keeneal is not a player, and frogman is the only listed mod." Both posts surrounding _infina)_'s, before and after, belonged to NAR. That, to me, seems to rule out a whoops.

Aw, hell. I'mma just cut this essay short and follow my gut: _infina_, I'm with you on NAR and DP being scum.
Vote: Not A Raptor

p.s.:
Dark Loink, might I suggest a living player next time so we can more accurately ascertain if you are offering anything to the game (e.g. declaring KK is scum is not useful at this point )
dotproduct has not posted in two weeks. Can we get a modprod replacement?

[mister k]

interesting. NAR as scum. Certainly the vote is evidence of this

I'm going to have to agree with the KrazierKate crowd: that vote did seem like inexperienced scum hopping on a bandwagon..

Good news, KK. We have a better idea. Bad news (for you): It's you.

Unvote

Vote: KrazierKate

Basically joining in on the bandwagon, and the third vote. Its fast off the mark, but with smart scum (and if NAR is scum, NAr is smart scum), this could easily be that move. The do not claim in bold thing pinged me in a weird way- its really quite an obvious piece of information. Uh so...

suspicious of: Infina, NAR, DL, oh and weiyaoli! Such a long night that I'd actually forgotten about this. Weiyaoli just didn't commit to anything all day- a problem mpolo had too, but weiyaoli just had very little to add. I'm going to assume past me had something going on, and

vote weiyaoli

[tastelikecoke]

Do you post while drunk Y/N

no, In fact I'm a minor. I guess I should stop playing mafia, it's getting me drugged.

I have a gut feeling that dp is scum, but the way he is lurking, No speculation can be taken from him besides his D1 posts, here:

Spoiler:

My Awesome Frog Instructional Adventure


"7. Once I say that it's nighttime, do not post in the thread AT ALL. This is fine, although the zombies might hear you."

Does this mean we can do analysis/accusation type posts during nighttime?

I don't know, but it's been 5 days since he logged in.

I gotta agree with PE here, it seems like we would have recruiting masons. As for other unusual roles, lets make an attempt:

fly - survivor


Uh... yeah, I can't think of anything else that has to do with the theme, so I'm guessing most of the roles will be relatively standard.

Role specs and others, weird speculation about survivors.

Spoiler:

When I saw the word milkybee my stomach grumbles.

Nothing else in that post?
Are you serious?


Along with the wine from earlier, that gets me to

Vote: tastelikecoke

Bandwagon at me. I'm OMGUS at this one.

Spoiler:

(responding to modprod)


Brook, what exactly happened between your fos and your vote to make you change?

I'm not liking the KK lynch, although tlc and possibly bxm are the only people I would prefer to see lynched.

Also, here's a pure wifom question for Van:
Would you have posted that theory if you were scum?

He doesn't like the KK lynch, perhaps scummy after we know that KK is scum. But dp hasn't given any thoughts after d2. he posts at very scarce time intervals.

[frogman]

dotproduct has not posted in two weeks. Can we get a modprod replacement?

Yeah, okay.

1 Not A Raptor - Van
1 weiyaoli - mister k

[_infina_]

You see Van, it is the fact that it would look ridiculous for NaR to NK BXM that it is the exact reason I suspect him. It is a sort of think that is like "how can I seem so suspicious to not be suspicious" kind of thinking. To go through my logic, I had to first suspect you, and then go to NaR's attack on you for your vote. Quite simple, at least it seems so to me.
Vote: NaR

[Not A Raptor]

You see Van, it is the fact that it would look ridiculous for NaR to NK BXM that it is the exact reason I suspect him. It is a sort of think that is like "how can I seem so suspicious to not be suspicious" kind of thinking. To go through my logic, I had to first suspect you, and then go to NaR's attack on you for your vote. Quite simple, at least it seems so to me.
Vote: NaR

Except that now you're reasoning based on wine.

[Dr Ug]

I apologise for my absence, I have come down with the flu. If I feel better today I may get to that analysis that was requested of me, but it's unlikely to be today.

[dotproduct]

So, yeah, I managed to completely lose track of how long it had been since I had posted.

- He spilled the wine (as pointed out by felltir) on page 3.
- Was terse when talking about RR, after he voted for him. Not much reason given. Then again, he was a lurker at the time.
- At the end of page three, suggested that something wasn't right and hopped on the TLC lynchwagon.
- Was mistaken about whether players were in the game or not (deficit of information and correction, or excuse to post little content?)
- Suggested a random lynch on page 4. What the hell? Oh, this was the post before the first vote was laid on KK as well.
- On page 5, admitted not paying much attention to the game, placed an IGMEOY on KK. Scum waiting to see if the lynch was going to happen?
- On page 6, came up with a list of four players he thought was scummy. Gave reasons for two. This is one of the few townish tells I got.

I must say, I don't think I can trust him at the moment.

FoS: -infina-

I must say, this post really doesn't sit right with me.
It's like NaR wanted to seem like he was doing an analysis while mostly just picking out the bad parts.

Vote: Not A Raptor


I'm also think mister k has a point, and will look back at weiyoli's posts now.