Mafiaballs [Newbie]: Mafiaballs Win

[arduous]

Well, I'm the fifth player to post since the miller claim, so once the other 6 post we can assume that Misnomer is the miller. As for what the doctor should do, I'd suggest not discussing it. Ultimately, what we want the doctor to do is protect whoever the scum target. That's not going to happen if the scum know who he/she is protecting. I'm going to leave it at this: Doctor, protecting the miller is a good idea. As a confirmed townie, they won't be lynched and therefore the mafia want to kill them. Also, protecting somebody else is a good idea. Miller isn't a power role, so losing it isn't too harsh, and the miller is less likely to be killed as they are a prime target for protecting.

All in all, don't do what the town tells you, protect who you think the scum will kill. It could be the miller, it could be somebody else.

[_infina_]

Wow BN, if you're not scum, you just gave them a reason to pick you apart. Also, I noticed that OMGUS after I posted it. The power roles should not make themselves so noticeable, I have already got a good idea who you are. You don't want to be killed N1, now do you, and if I have noticed you, the scum won't take to long to catch on to you. There are three of them to pick up on the signs, they do not have just one vantage point to find you. I picked up on you not soon after the game started. My lynch the miller idea is if we have no better choice, and it gives the scum one less place to hide. Right now it is just that, an idea that can be picked apart for discussion. The more discussion that goes on, the easier it becomes to pick out scum while losing fewer townies. I also like picking apart plans to see all the ways they can go wrong.

ninja'd

Picking apart the doctoring the miller, I find that it may be useless, as scum could use it as wine later, if they needed it to hide in. Not doctoring the miller leaves a target wide open that the scum can kill without it being stopped. Not talking about it and having the doctor decide who to doctor privately leaves the scum guessing the most.

[ElectricHaze]

Wow BN, if you're not scum, you just gave them a reason to pick you apart. Also, I noticed that OMGUS after I posted it. The power roles should not make themselves so noticeable, I have already got a good idea who you are. You don't want to be killed N1, now do you, and if I have noticed you, the scum won't take to long to catch on to you. There are three of them to pick up on the signs, they do not have just one vantage point to find you. I picked up on you not soon after the game started.

Let me summarize "BN it is a bad idea to make it obvious if you are a power role because you will be NKed. BN I THINK ITS QUITE OBVIOUS YOU ARE A POWER ROLE." First off, I don't know what you caught there, but I didn't catch any tells. Secondly, that post is amazingly anti town.

My lynch the miller idea is if we have no better choice, and it gives the scum one less place to hide.

And you are still defending lynching a confirmed townie as a decent choice. I don't understand how scum could hide there or how this could ever be better than ANY other option.

Vote: _infina_
For the most confusing analysis ever(Aside from maybe TLC, no offense to you tlc, but you confuse the hell out of me), and making terribly anti town statements, and bad suggestions.

[_infina_]

I never said BN was a Power role, nor did I mean to imply it. Let me fix how it should read.

Wow BN, if you're not scum, you just gave them a reason to pick you apart.
Also, I noticed that OMGUS after I posted it.
The power roles should not make themselves so noticeable, I have already got a good idea who you are. You don't want to be killed N1, now do you, and if I have noticed you, the scum won't take to long to catch on to you. There are three of them to pick up on the signs, they do not have just one vantage point to find you. I picked up on you not soon after the game started.
My lynch the miller idea is if we have no better choice, and it gives the scum one less place to hide. Right now it is just that, an idea that can be picked apart for discussion. The more discussion that goes on, the easier it becomes to pick out scum while losing fewer townies.
I also like picking apart plans to see all the ways they can go wrong.

ninja'd

Picking apart the doctoring the miller, I find that it may be useless, as scum could use it as wine later, if they needed it to hide in. Not doctoring the miller leaves a target wide open that the scum can kill without it being stopped. Not talking about it and having the doctor decide who to doctor privately leaves the scum guessing the most.

The miller is a no-alternative choice. If there is NO ONE BETTER to lynch, only then do I consider it a possibility.I don't like it happening but my thoughts can run together, producing things like that. I do NOT think BN is a power role, and will not name that who I think is. That would be the reason that you didn't catch tells from BN.

[Two-Fry]

Posting to confirm that I am not the miller
FOS: Infina
I see many good reasons to lynch Infina, however I'm going to hold of on my vote for two reasons:
First, he has been known to spread wine and play anti town while turning up town in the end
Second, Not everyone has posted since misnomers claim; leaving open the possibility of a miller counterclaim

Infina does seem like the best lynch in absence of a counterclaim though, so as soon as everyone has posted I'll upgrade to a vote.

[arduous]

Hey, blackfuse81 is a friend of mine irl. He's tried posting a couple times but it tells him his post needs to get reviewed by a mod before it goes through. phlip, is there anything you can do to get his account unflagged or something?

[phlip]

OK, so we have our miller claim, and so far everyone except meaty, nyssa and blackfuse have posted and not counter-claimed. Looks pretty good, though obviously we should wait for those three to also post before we trust anything.

infina is pinging me badly on pretty much every post he makes... I'm going to need to go through some of his other games to get a baseline for his natural scum-seeming-ness, and see if he's being any more scumtastic than normal... but pending that, major FoS.

On other notes:

Hey, blackfuse81 is a friend of mine irl. He's tried posting a couple times but it tells him his post needs to get reviewed by a mod before it goes through. phlip, is there anything you can do to get his account unflagged or something?

I think the way it works is he'll be in that group until he makes a post in a forum which counts for postcount. The mod-review option applies to new users with a postcount of 0. Get him to make a post in ICT or something, and he should be fine.

I also meant to ask, did the guards in the Spaceballs movie actually wear red shirts? I don't recall them, if so. Is it just a comical nod by Dr. Ug to Star Trek?

I watched my copy of Spaceballs again... looks like there are no Druish guards in the movie at all, red-shirted or otherwise. Very little of the movie takes place on Druidia anyway.

[meatyochre]

Hey, blackfuse81 is a friend of mine irl. He's tried posting a couple times but it tells him his post needs to get reviewed by a mod before it goes through. phlip, is there anything you can do to get his account unflagged or something?

Yeah he won't be able to post until his first 2 posts have been mod-approved. recent change for new accounts to prevent overspamification

I think that an infina lynch makes more sense than a miller lynch. We know with a high degree of certainty (in absence of a counterclaim) that the miller is town. Therefore, he shouldn't/won't be copped because the result would be known with a high degree of certainty.

We don't know whether infina is town (I also see that he's spreading wine already, this doesn't seem likely to change). Why would we lynch the miller when we could pick pretty much anyone else (even at random) and have a 1/11 chance of hitting scum? As opposed to a 0/11 chance by lynching the miller.

FoS: infina (for poor analysis from a statistical point of view, and continually pretending to know more than he does)

[<nyssa>]

Posting to say I'm also not the Miller. I'm pretty happy with believing Misnomer from the looks of it. And uh, if we're happy with the fact that he's the Miller, and we know the Miller is town, why would we lynch him? That makes no sense Infina. There will always be someone better to lynch, for a start, even just picking randomly we have a chance of hitting scum, whereas if we lynch the miller, we've just killed one of our own. Also, and I'll have to reread BigNose's posts to be sure, but he didn't ping me as seeming too scummy, to be honest. Infina, if he *is* a town power role, and scum hadn't picked up on it yet, you kinda just said "Woo scum look over here NK this one!". You do realise that what you write here can be read by everyone, right? And your 'fixed' version of that post doesn't look much better. At the moment a better person to lynch would be you. Even if you are town, and are just doing your usual dreadful D1 play, where you get yourself lynched and then turn up town, if the choice is between lynching the miller, who is confirmed town, and lynching you, who is possibly town and spreading wine, then I'm pretty happy to go with you.

[meatyochre]

oh fkbeans, I guess I should have said 0/12 for the miller lynch.

statistical criticism irony

[Two-Fry]

Actually, it's a 3/8 chance of hitting scum :p

[phlip]

Yeah he won't be able to post until his first 2 posts have been mod-approved. recent change for new accounts to prevent overspamification

Not 2, just 1. But I think that, as ever, posts in FG don't count.

[meatyochre]

Actually, it's a 3/8 chance of hitting scum :p

ugh. thanks.

So! FoS: meatyochre for being bad at statistics. I need to take my own medicine, apparently.

(kidding, obviously)

[_infina_]

Posting to say I'm also not the Miller. I'm pretty happy with believing Misnomer from the looks of it. And uh, if we're happy with the fact that he's the Miller, and we know the Miller is town, why would we lynch him? That makes no sense Infina. There will always be someone better to lynch, for a start, even just picking randomly we have a chance of hitting scum, whereas if we lynch the miller, we've just killed one of our own. Also, and I'll have to reread BigNose's posts to be sure, but he didn't ping me as seeming too scummy, to be honest. Infina, if he *is* a town power role, and scum hadn't picked up on it yet, you kinda just said "Woo scum look over here NK this one!". You do realise that what you write here can be read by everyone, right? And your 'fixed' version of that post doesn't look much better. At the moment a better person to lynch would be you. Even if you are town, and are just doing your usual dreadful D1 play, where you get yourself lynched and then turn up town, if the choice is between lynching the miller, who is confirmed town, and lynching you, who is possibly town and spreading wine, then I'm pretty happy to go with you.

Talking about BN was a single sentence.Why don't you people seem to get that? Now I will make it a little longer.

Spoiler:

Next:

From a Townie point of view, I can understand the reason to claim and can't condemn it.

Does this imply that you are not normally looking at things in this game from a townie point of view?

LOL no. I was just stating that I had 2 points of view, the meta-gaming view and the Townie view.
I sometimes look at the game from a scum point of view, mainly when I am scum (obviously), but also when I am Town.
It's good to think 'what might scum do?'.

BN's most recent post first. Not a thing that would say to me that BN was a power role. A little bit defensive, but not overly so.

Spoiler:

WOW.
Lots of input, nice to see.

Regarding the Miller role-claiming, on a personal/meta-gaming basis, I would prefer the Miller not to role-claim because that loses some of the mystery of the process of playing the game. From a Townie point of view, I can understand the reason to claim and can't condemn it.
If the Miller claims, then either if there is a counter-claim, we (potentially) lose 3 Town for 1 scum (2 x lynch, 2 x NK), or if not, then we lose 1 Townie (NK) and have to consider who else to lynch D1.
Should the Doctor save the Miller if he is the only claim? The Doctor should be aiming to save the cop, but at D1, that is an unlikely target, so probably for N1, Doctoring the single-claim Miller is probably correct.
The problem with that is that the scum now have a greater chance of getting the Doctor or Cop, as the Miller gets written off the NK list.
Certainly, if the scum claim Miller, then the real Miller MUST counter-claim and hope he avoids the lynch.

On other points:

Alright...I'd say we probably have a godfather, knowing the set-up. Dark Helmut would probably be some sort of...roleblocker of sorts. There are probably 6 vanil-
Yeah. So open set-up. This is my confirming, I don't really have much to comment on as of yet. But cool.

Please make sure you do comment. One thing I do and will push on, is lack of posts and lack of content.

Finally, I need to look more into the Arduous/Infina back and forth.
This isn't a turbo.

I will be away from 31/07 to 08/08. I may get chance to get a quick post in that time.

BN's only other post, his first one. Against the miller claiming, like me, only he gave a differing reason. Nothing to make me suspect a single power at all. Scummy, maybe, but not a power role.

Next, if I was scum, why would I continue to do things to make me stand out? The goal of scum is to hide, correct? I'm just a little to easy to find stuff in each post. Although, this would be my first time getting lynched for something I did. It might be fun. Lets try it.
Vote:_infina_

That should make it
_infina_ - 4 (arduous, blackfuse81, ElectricHaze, _infina_)

[Two-Fry]

Okay then. Seeing as a miller counterclaim seems pretty unlikely at this point, I'll go ahead and
Vote: Infina
Can we get votals please?

[phlip]

Next, if I was scum, why would I continue to do things to make me stand out? The goal of scum is to hide, correct? I'm just a little to easy to find stuff in each post. Although, this would be my first time getting lynched for something I did. It might be fun. Lets try it.
Vote:_infina_

I... um... what? But... what?

Do I really need to go into details about how... exceptionally daft that idea is? In so many different ways? In just that quoted paragraph alone? Even leaving aside all the other exceptionally daft things you've done so far in the thread (which includes pretty much every daft idea in the book).

I think infina's unofficial votals there are right, so we're at hammer-3 now. [ninja-edit] With Two-Fry's we're at hammer-2 [/ninja-edit]. We're still waiting on blackfuse to post after the miller claim, and he hasn't posted much at all, because of the post approval thing, which will hopefully be sorted soon... I know in my first newbie game, D1 ended before I had a chance to do anything substantial at all... I'd rather not inflict the same thing on another new player... and I'll repeat what's been said by others: that this isn't a turbo game, and if the day's a bit longer before the vote finishes, we lose nothing.

So I won't vote just yet, if only blackfuse a chance to chip in. If it wasn't for that, my vote would definitely be on inf right now.

[blackfuse81]

Checking in nothing much to say but Im not miller

[arduous]

Well, blackfuse informed me he has a post pending saying that he is not the miller. I guess that wraps that up.

[Dr Ug]

Votals:

_infina_ (5): Arduous, blackfuse81, ElectricHaze, _infina_, Two-Fry
12 players remaining, 7 to lynch

[phlip]

That's good to know. Yay, sense of completion.

Well, that's the only real thing that was stopping me, so...
Vote: _infina_
(I believe that's Hammer - 1... next vote ends it all)

[phlip]

EBWOP: Did someone declare "everyone ninja phlip day" or something? Now the mod is getting in on the action...

[BigNose]

Well, blackfuse informed me he has a post pending saying that he is not the miller. I guess that wraps that up.

No offense Arduous, but until Blackfuse does state in thread, I'll take that with a single salt crystal.

@Infina
The self-vote only puts you in the same league as Zerker2000 and we know that he is now a persona non grata for quite a few people.
I would like to know what role you think I am. If you are scum (which I am inclined to believe), then you have effectively pronounced my death sentence (in thread, as opposed to in Night PM's), if you are Town, that was crap play.

I will withold my vote for now. I am forced to vote by end of next RL day (I will be away for 1 week).
This is a newbie game, so here's your chance Infina.

[tastelikecoke]

Self-voting is suicide for most of the time. Infina's self vote is interesting though.

Next, if I was scum, why would I continue to do things to make me stand out? The goal of scum is to hide, correct? I'm just a little to easy to find stuff in each post. Although, this would be my first time getting lynched for something I did. It might be fun. Lets try it.

I dunno, Is this infina's attempt to spread wine? Infina's defenses are too obnoxious to sound townie.

Some late response:

Mea culpa. The impression I got from past games was that a Miller either needs to claim early on the first day or not claim at all. And since there seemed to be such an early clamour for the Miller to reveal, I thought I'd best do so.

This is my first time playing with a miller, so I'll appreciate that wisdom.

Surely lynching a player on the town's side is more of an anti-town move?

Of course lynching the miller is outrageous. But doctoring the miller wouldn't make sense. scum needs to NK the doctor and the cop, not the miller.

[Dark Loink]

Next, if I was scum, why would I continue to do things to make me stand out? The goal of scum is to hide, correct? I'm just a little to easy to find stuff in each post. Although, this would be my first time getting lynched for something I did. It might be fun. Lets try it.
Vote:_infina_

That should make it
_infina_ - 4 (arduous, blackfuse81, ElectricHaze, _infina_)

what.
I...what.
If he were scum, a better idea would have been talking the others out of it...if he were town a better idea would have been the exact same thing.
I have no idea what this is. If it is some sort of ploy to make us afraid to lynch him because he is acting like this, um...I'm not sure what I want to do. Why would you do this as any faction ever?(jester aside, but then you made them afraid to lynch you.) Because having a facination with screwing up and getting lynched to the point of self lynch...
Why?

Anyways,
If we don't get answers, I'm going to hammer in a few hours. Because that will at least clear up something. But I will be gone for a few hours, then I can discuss more of what has happened. But the self vote is what caught my eye. I am now confused.

[ElectricHaze]

Next, if I was scum, why would I continue to do things to make me stand out? The goal of scum is to hide, correct? I'm just a little to easy to find stuff in each post. Although, this would be my first time getting lynched for something I did. It might be fun. Lets try it.
Vote:_infina_

I am now 99% certain you are scum. This has been so different from your normal play it's obvious. Other than a retaliatory vote you haven't cast about nearly the amount of Votes/FoSes that you normally do. You haven't blatantly hinted about your role, or claimed even though you've done it as soon as you were FoSed or voted for in every game I've ever played with you in. Also your strats are just plain bad for the town, rather than just the usual not well thought out plans you normally give, plus you are sticking to them more tenaciously then you normally do when people explain to you why they are bad for the town.

If I could vote for you again I'd do it.

[<nyssa>]

I..err...what? Honestly, a girl goes out for a few hours and misses all the action!

Anyways,
If we don't get answers, I'm going to hammer in a few hours. Because that will at least clear up something. But I will be gone for a few hours, then I can discuss more of what has happened. But the self vote is what caught my eye. I am now confused.

I really badly want to vote, this being my first game and all, but also because of that I want to hear as much explanation of scenarios and posts as possible. So I'd like to wait until Dark Loink is back so I can hear what he has to say. I'm not interested in anything Infina has to say anymore.

[BigNose]

I..err...what? Honestly, a girl goes out for a few hours and misses all the action!

Anyways,
If we don't get answers, I'm going to hammer in a few hours. Because that will at least clear up something. But I will be gone for a few hours, then I can discuss more of what has happened. But the self vote is what caught my eye. I am now confused.

I really badly want to vote, this being my first game and all, but also because of that I want to hear as much explanation of scenarios and posts as possible. So I'd like to wait until Dark Loink is back so I can hear what he has to say. I'm not interested in anything Infina has to say anymore.

I second this.

I would also like the Hammer NOT to be dropped until more have had a say.

Also, because:
a) Revenge would be sweet (soz Infina)
b) I am away from Sat to Sun (8 days), so want to miss as little as poss.

[_infina_]

Unvote
FoS: BN, Two-Fry

Revenge, looking at it from a townie point of view? I may wear a red shirt, and as such expect to die, but revenge isn't for the town. Having to look at it from a town point of view means you are not playing as town. I was trying to look at things from a scum's point of view, my goal being to extend the day as long as possible by generating discussion. Two-fry, you voted in a post with little content. EH, this is not a turbo, so I didn't have everything I wanted to do my suspicions. If scum are caught off guard, the chance they may slip up increases. I need more to look at on BN for a full analysis on why he is pinging me. He would be my top choice, followed closely by two-fry.

[arduous]

Well, blackfuse informed me he has a post pending saying that he is not the miller. I guess that wraps that up.

No offense Arduous, but until Blackfuse does state in thread, I'll take that with a single salt crystal.

I totally understand. Also, his post has since popped up just before mine.

Next, if I was scum, why would I continue to do things to make me stand out? The goal of scum is to hide, correct? I'm just a little to easy to find stuff in each post. Although, this would be my first time getting lynched for something I did. It might be fun. Lets try it.
Vote:_infina_

I am now 99% certain you are scum. This has been so different from your normal play it's obvious. Other than a retaliatory vote you haven't cast about nearly the amount of Votes/FoSes that you normally do. You haven't blatantly hinted about your role, or claimed even though you've done it as soon as you were FoSed or voted for in every game I've ever played with you in. Also your strats are just plain bad for the town, rather than just the usual not well thought out plans you normally give, plus you are sticking to them more tenaciously then you normally do when people explain to you why they are bad for the town.

If I could vote for you again I'd do it.

This post summarizes my exact sentiments.

[meatyochre]

scumtells from infina, emphasis mine:
1)

Why don't you people seem to get that?

(Sounds like he is talking to "you town people" from an outside perspective.)
2) votes for himself because it will be "fun". Mud, wine, slime, pondscum. You're pinging my scumdar so hard already.
3) Claims that because he's doing things to stand out, he can't possibly be scum because scum would try to blend in better. Well, infina's playstyle has been exactly like this in every game, regardless of role.
4)

I may wear a red shirt, and as such expect to die, but revenge isn't for the town.

He's roleclaiming vanilla town here. Claiming is bad unless special circumstances (like all the miller jazz). Could be telling the truth, could be desperately trying to prevent a lynch on himself, could be scum. Inconclusive but still obnoxious.
5) Unvotes for himself. More pondscum.

vote: infina

This should take us to hammer -1 with his unvote. I have no problem with ending D1 sooner than expected. infina's all over the place and my scumdar is humming like mad.

[_infina_]

Vote:_infina_
and there is the curtain for the roleblocker. Goodnight BN.

[Dr Ug]

Rather quickly after Lone Star proposed (well, ordered is probably a more appropriate word) the lynch mob be formed, said mob set upon _infina_, despite his protestations, and left him dangling from a nearby tree. (As you would expect, trees are quite common and easy to find on Planet Druidia). Strangely, they decided not to look for any identifying features (like whether he was really wearing a red shirt or not) until the next morning.

_infina_ has been lynched. His role and alignment will be revealed in the morning.

It is now Night. Day will start as soon as I have all night actions sent in. Mafia don't forget to include me on your PMing (there are no listeners in the game, but I like to listen in, and put them in the game log).

For clarification, if there are questions about the roles / setup, please put them in bold so I don't miss them. There seemed to be a question of the mafia's kill disappearing with the death of Colonel Sandurz - this would not be the case. All 3 scum need to be dead (and the game thus over) for the mafia kill to be gone.

Votals:

_infina_ (8): Arduous, blackfuse81, ElectricHaze, Two-Fry, phlip, meatyochre, _infina_

[Dr Ug]

They all awoke the next morning, and realised that someone should probably check out who _infina_ was. They rushed outside to the lynching tree, and lowered his body to the ground. How they missed the ridiculously sized helmet is anyone's guess.

_infina_ was Dark Helmet, mafia roleblocker.

They quickly waited for the celebration to be ordered by Lone Star, but as they looked around, they noticed that he was nowhere to be seen. They quickly ran to his room, and found is dead body lying on the floor. He appeared to have been beaten to death with a large stick.

Ardous has been killed. He was Lone Star, Town Cop.

Day 2 starts now. 10 players remaining, 6 to lynch.

[Two-Fry]

Well, with Infina out of the way, I'd like to call attention to the other player who was pinging me as scum yesterday.

Spoiler:

I don't know about your claim Misnomer, We could had had a little D1 chat first before roleclaiming, so pings of scum might have been clearer. But we can't go back in time can we?

Suggests miller should not have claimed. Slightly Scummy/Neutral

So arduous and infina argued with each other, and Bignose had probably said everything about miller claims. I think the miller should claim. I don't know what will we do after that.

After expressing doubts about the miller claim, says that the Miller should have claimed after all. Can't you make up your mind? Slightly Scummy

Isn't keeping the miller alive an anti-town move? It provides a lot of wine.

Suggest having the miller alive is bad, which is just plain wrong. Scummy

We could just ignore the miller and hope that the miller acts townie enough so he isn't copped. It's good meta-game-wise too.

Anyway that's some thoughts for me.

And appears to change his mind about miller again. Scummy

Spoiler:

Self-voting is suicide for most of the time. Infina's self vote is interesting though.

Next, if I was scum, why would I continue to do things to make me stand out? The goal of scum is to hide, correct? I'm just a little to easy to find stuff in each post. Although, this would be my first time getting lynched for something I did. It might be fun. Lets try it.

I dunno, Is this infina's attempt to spread wine? Infina's defenses are too obnoxious to sound townie.

The first line appears to suggest that the self vote was not Scummy? It looked pretty scummy to me, and everyone else. Slightly Scummy

Some late response:

Mea culpa. The impression I got from past games was that a Miller either needs to claim early on the first day or not claim at all. And since there seemed to be such an early clamour for the Miller to reveal, I thought I'd best do so.

This is my first time playing with a miller, so I'll appreciate that wisdom.

Surely lynching a player on the town's side is more of an anti-town move?

Of course lynching the miller is outrageous. But doctoring the miller wouldn't make sense. scum needs to NK the doctor and the cop, not the miller.

Another just plain incorrect statement. Like arduous said, the doctor should protect whoever they think is most likely to be NK'd, and the miller was a good guess because scum do want the miller deadSlightly Scummy

Overall: Scummy
I don't want to start a bandwagon without having any discussion first, but TLC is looking pretty scummy to me.
FoS: TLC

[tastelikecoke]

Defense of me.
Is it really bad to switch to ideas? Vote-hopping is a scumtell, but ideahopping.

Another just plain incorrect statement. Like arduous said, the doctor should protect whoever they think is most likely to be NK'd, and the miller was a good guess because scum do want the miller deadSlightly Scummy

I get some explanation, but if arduous said to the doctor that they should protect the miller, then the mafia won't NK the miller since town's going to protect him. Mafia would at most try to kill cop or doctor. Killing a miller isn't really better than NKing vanilla towns.

The first line appears to suggest that the self vote was not Scummy? It looked pretty scummy to me, and everyone else. Slightly Scummy

I thought that self-vote is like his last act to act zerker-like townie. I haven't been reading this days since next day is final exams day.

I hope you even consider this defense since I won't be able to this week.

I really hate how I always post in mafia just to defend my posts. I guess bad players won't enjoy mafia well.

[Misnomer]

Right, time to have a stab at this analysis malarky...

*dons tinfoil hat*

I think one of the questions we need to consider is at what point did Infina decide he was throwing in the towel? I get the impression that his first vote for himself was a genuine gambit to try and save his skin. What's not so clear is his motives for his next action...

Unvote
FoS: BN, Two-Fry

Revenge, looking at it from a townie point of view? I may wear a red shirt, and as such expect to die, but revenge isn't for the town. Having to look at it from a town point of view means you are not playing as town. I was trying to look at things from a scum's point of view, my goal being to extend the day as long as possible by generating discussion. Two-fry, you voted in a post with little content. EH, this is not a turbo, so I didn't have everything I wanted to do my suspicions. If scum are caught off guard, the chance they may slip up increases. I need more to look at on BN for a full analysis on why he is pinging me. He would be my top choice, followed closely by two-fry.

The fact that he unvoted, then so quickly hammered himself afterwards, suggests to me that by this point he had already given up. In which case, what was the purpose of his post? If I were in his position, I'd have used it to attack at least one of my fellow scum, so as to allow them to appear as anti-scum as possible when my role was finally revealed. Which of course puts Two-Fry and BigNose in the spotlight.

Two-Fry's analysis post of tastelikecoke struck me as a little off - I'm not sure either of the quotes in the second spoilered section really add much to the scumminess accusations. He has some good points about the miller comments though.

BigNose strikes me as more suspect - one of the things that's pinging me was what struck me as a surprising amount of antagonism between Infina and BN. BN's "Revenge would be sweet" comment struck me as very odd, and I can't help but get the impression that the two were deliberately trying to distance themselves from each other. It's possible of course that this is some infamous rivalry between the two that I don't know about, in which case somebody please correct me. Overall though, it stikes me as odd so...

FoS: BigNose

[Dark Loink]

Well. Roleblocker is dead, but so is cop. So...alright night I guess, as godfather and miller now mean nothing. Although now...time to find scum the old fashioned way.
Big nose? Fine, this is the second page, so I can probably get a few people done.
First off-order of people voting for infinia:
1.(early one) Arduous
2.blackfuse51
3.Electric haze
4.infinia ( Still a bit confused at that)
5.Two fry
6.Philip
5. Unvote by infinia
6.meatyochre
7.infina
Well then.

Infinia was scum roleblocker, and Arduous was the cop.
I was hesitent to vote until I got back, I was gone that day. When I did come back, he was lynched.
I'm going to look at...<nyssa>. Why not.
So, <nyssa>'s posts:

Spoiler:

Rightio, well, this is my first mafia game, but thankfully I'm familiar with the flavour and its a completely open set up, so that should help. As for comments, I'm not sure there's much to say as yet, but its interesting that we have a miller, I've never seen that role before, someone who comes up scum when they're actually town.

Role speculation about having a miller. First game with a miller, okay, this post would be said..as someone town or scum. Somewhat neutral.

The false cop problem is two-fold. No counter-claim, and a false cop can lead the town against one of its own, or off from another scum. A counter-claim will out the real cop to scum, and will allow the scum to nk the cop, if he is not the one lynched. Losing even 1 town is unacceptable, so the doc had better be good. I strive for perfection.

ninja'd x 2

Did you read Diablo Mafia. If you did, you would see why I am wary of cops. The first sentence was my condemning it. Someone claiming miller now will just lead to lynching them, and otherwise the cop would declare them scum for them to claim, opening the scum up a chance at a kill. And I was thinking more along the lines of the GF false claiming. Confirming miller? Are you serious? What if both non-GF scum claim miller? Did you think of that? I think you are the scum.

Vote:arduous

Look, the way it stands at the moment, the cop can't trust his own investigations, there's always the chance of him hitting the miller or the godfather, who's investigation results are reversed. So it's helpful to town for the miller to claim, then if we only have one claim, we know who the miller is and can effectively cop scum. If we have two claims, we pick one to lynch, and whatever happens we will end up knowing who the miller is (whether he's alive or not), having lynched a scum member and being able to trust any further investigations that come up scum. More than two claims would just be silly - even if we happen to lynch the real miller on the first night, we then know who the other two non-GF scum are. I don't think they would do that. Infina, I think you're protesting a lot. I also can't see a scenario in which we don't lose any town.
Also I managed to be ninja'd a lot by phlip. My argument runs the same, but his is better written .

First off, saying that miller claiming gives our cop less confusion, and keeps them from claimed when finding townie. Yeah. That makes sense. Infinia was being rather scummy then. Townieish post, although you could probably find somethings wrong with it.

Posting to say I'm also not the Miller. I'm pretty happy with believing Misnomer from the looks of it. And uh, if we're happy with the fact that he's the Miller, and we know the Miller is town, why would we lynch him? That makes no sense Infina. There will always be someone better to lynch, for a start, even just picking randomly we have a chance of hitting scum, whereas if we lynch the miller, we've just killed one of our own. Also, and I'll have to reread BigNose's posts to be sure, but he didn't ping me as seeming too scummy, to be honest. Infina, if he *is* a town power role, and scum hadn't picked up on it yet, you kinda just said "Woo scum look over here NK this one!". You do realise that what you write here can be read by everyone, right? And your 'fixed' version of that post doesn't look much better. At the moment a better person to lynch would be you. Even if you are town, and are just doing your usual dreadful D1 play, where you get yourself lynched and then turn up town, if the choice is between lynching the miller, who is confirmed town, and lynching you, who is possibly town and spreading wine, then I'm pretty happy to go with you.

Yeah. This post makes sesne, again. Going after infinia with...every reason to. Lynching a confirmed townie=a bad idea.

I..err...what? Honestly, a girl goes out for a few hours and misses all the action!

Anyways,
If we don't get answers, I'm going to hammer in a few hours. Because that will at least clear up something. But I will be gone for a few hours, then I can discuss more of what has happened. But the self vote is what caught my eye. I am now confused.

I really badly want to vote, this being my first game and all, but also because of that I want to hear as much explanation of scenarios and posts as possible. So I'd like to wait until Dark Loink is back so I can hear what he has to say. I'm not interested in anything Infina has to say anymore.

I was mainly seeing if infinia would give an agruement, explination, or something...but he didn't. This post is pretty much waiting, a few of us did that.

All in all, although I probably didn't look that hard, it is early, <nyssa> is seeming townie enough to me.

[phlip]

Oh hi daytime, I didn't see you there.

So infina turned out to be scum to the surprise of noone, and we're minus the roleblocker and the cop. Not the best trade ever, losing the cop will hurt, but I think we're still ahead now. I'm too tired to figure out the actual numbers, but it feels like 1 for 1, even a power role, is a win, if less so than it could be.

In general it looks like most of day 1 was either infina trying to throw mud around and people calling infina for trying to throw mud around. While there's often some information to be gotten from how the votes fall when the scum is lynched, I don't think there's much there in this time... I'm not even sure I'd characterise the lynch as a bandwagon... the votes kept racking up not because they were convinced by other voters, but because they were convinced by infina's bad play.
But it seems we've already made it to the "pick people at random and analyse them to death" phase of the game, so I'll give it a shot. Random number generator picked DL, so I'll go through his.

Spoiler:

Alright...I'd say we probably have a godfather, knowing the set-up. Dark Helmut would probably be some sort of...roleblocker of sorts. There are probably 6 vanil-
Yeah. So open set-up. This is my confirming, I don't really have much to comment on as of yet. But cool.

Contentless confirmation post with a touch of humour. Neutral.

Says he has nothing to say yet, implying he'll have more to say later.

Spoiler:

Wow, thats a lot of posts. In...about 11 hours. Wow. Are you sure this isn't a turbo game?
Anyways, a lot of posts, which is good-something to comment on. Now here is my reaction to pretty much the entire game so far.

Millers: A problem, in basicly any game. That claim always comes with wine, and can not come without, unless only a godfather is left.
Follow the cop is not impossible-when the cop finds scum, or if the roleblocker is...dead. Then there should not be a problem, but still, there are such things as false claims. So, you always have to really pay attention and think about cop claims, because there is always a good chance of a false one. Yet there is a good chance of a real one as well.

Is there a suggestion to follow the cop? I must warn you to be wary of any cop claims. I was NKed because of a false cop claim that I wanted to test. I disagree with having the miller claim. To much wine will follow. Just two miller claims will give the mafia enough time to pick off Yogurt and Lone Starr, leaving you with not much to go on.

Yeah. False cop claims happen. If we had cop claims from people, it get confusing, but interesting. But right on the next post

[snip]

And now we have this. Infinia says he was night killed because of a false cop claim. Was he townie in that game? Because...trying to make cops seem scummy is not a good townie move. While I agreed with some of the points, this did seem a bit much like making the cop untrustworthy, in one of his first posts. So I can see why you think this is scummy.

[snip]

OMGUS. Great. This opens discussion though...so my thoughts on this.
Again, he immidetly votes the guy who voted him. Not the towniest behavior...but infinia isn't the towniest person, far as I know.
If both scum claimed miller. I suppose it is possible. This post has good points but...

[snip]

...Still uneasy, honestly. Saying he doesn't want this to be one of those D1 arguements...which is making him and arduous both being the townies who start arguing. Townies dieing are acceptable losses-as long as scum loses in the end. The point is not to survive, it is to kill the others. Keeping all of the townies alive is ideal, but a near impossible ideal. If we all worry about all townies surviving, then we won't take risks, in getting scum killed. Sometimes you need to die to prove a point, sometimes you being agressive lynches scum but makes you seem scummy. You can, but you have to accept the fact of townies dieing for a town win. But, anyways, on to the next one

[snip]

wow. Big. This post makes sense, I agree with what he is saying, for the most part. Of course, infinia saying that both scum could claim is a possibity. But if both scum claim, the miller would claim too. Then we would have 3, and scum would be utterly screwed. So if that did happen, it would be a VERY good thing. We'd lose a townie and two scum. For a non-miller townie to claim miller would...not happen.

[snip]

...was he really suggesting to lynch the miller D1? Really? After saying they shouldn't claim, now saying we can lynch them? Although the arguement is...somewhat sound. Scum could NOT use "I'm the miller, really!" As an excuse. Although right now I wouldn't suggest it. Unless we get multiple claims.

[snip]

Well, here we are. Miller claimed. Again-if there is a miller, who is not misnomer, claim. I understand even scum may try to counter-claim, but then...we have maybe scum and a miller dead. Not the most bad trade.

And I'll look at some other posts later, but this has taken enough of my time for now.

Nested analysis quotes snipped for length to avoid recursion when this post inevitably itself gets quoted by someone else's analysis... I can just see that exploding horrifically.

A lot of stuff here... a touch on millers, but this was after all the discussion and the miller claim had already happened, so not much to say. A little bit on FTC too. Several posts of infina's trashed, which is entirely reasonable. Agrees with me on miller claiming, an action which I can't objectively rate without invoking some kind of anti-OMGUS. More infina-trashing. Finally, noting that the miller claim happened, and reiterating the call for a counterclaim if it was false.

I'm in two minds about this... on one hand, it's an entirely reasonable townie post, but on the other, suspecting infina rapidly transcended the townie/scummy axis and became merely "observant". But on the third hand, as I mentioned, that the post focused almost entirely on infina was hardly limited to this post, or just DL.

Says he's run out of time, implying he'll have more to say later.

Spoiler:

:|

Next, if I was scum, why would I continue to do things to make me stand out? The goal of scum is to hide, correct? I'm just a little to easy to find stuff in each post. Although, this would be my first time getting lynched for something I did. It might be fun. Lets try it.
Vote:_infina_

That should make it
_infina_ - 4 (arduous, blackfuse81, ElectricHaze, _infina_)

what.
I...what.
If he were scum, a better idea would have been talking the others out of it...if he were town a better idea would have been the exact same thing.
I have no idea what this is. If it is some sort of ploy to make us afraid to lynch him because he is acting like this, um...I'm not sure what I want to do. Why would you do this as any faction ever?(jester aside, but then you made them afraid to lynch you.) Because having a facination with screwing up and getting lynched to the point of self lynch...
Why?

Anyways,
If we don't get answers, I'm going to hammer in a few hours. Because that will at least clear up something. But I will be gone for a few hours, then I can discuss more of what has happened. But the self vote is what caught my eye. I am now confused.

Reaction to infina's bizarre self-vote, and pretty much the only sane reaction to take - one of utter confusion.

Says he's short on time, saying he'll have more to say later.

Spoiler:

Finally This (it's directly above this post, I'm not going to quote it here).

Reasonable analysis of nyssa, which I'll agree with. Kinda shallow analysis, but I can't fault him for that, I'm doing the same in this very post. I'm not convinced there's really enough to work with for a thorough analysing yet.

Doesn't say he's out of time and will have more to say later, thus breaking with tradition.

All in all: neutral vaguely leaning town, but not really enough out there yet to call.

Incidentally, is the new thread subject a reference to anything? I don't recognise it from the movie...

[Dr Ug]

Incidentally, is the new thread subject a reference to anything? I don't recognise it from the movie...

More accurately it should have been "Father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate / Former roommate's cousin's uncle's brother's son suicide pact", but there is a limit on the title length for threads .

[phlip]

Oh, right, 'cause the deaths were Dark Helmet and Lone Star. Duh. Half-asleep-me is even less cluey than I thought.