The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

[Dr Ug]

Hmm, yet another thread I've been neglecting...

Regarding the deliberately playing badly idea (and I realise it was for interest, rather than a suggested playstyle). When this happens (and to my knowledge it's only happened once), Zerker was effectively banned from the boards. He basically deliberately played like an obvious jester, no matter his role (and even in open setups where there was no jester). This, whilst on paper may be an effective strategy as it hides any other 'tells, is actually a bad strategy in a community where if you play like this, we won't play with you any more. I'm pretty sure someone who deliberately lost as scum consistently, the same thing would happen - we wouldn't play with them any more.

Regarding Amy, the stats she presented to support her "I'm awesome, you should always just follow me" are misleading. For one, she is better at reading some people compared to others. Secondly, she was basing this on her opinions from her notebooks, not from those she stated in-thread (and at some point if I have a spare few hours I may redo her stats based on in-thread stated opinions), and ignored stated opinions when she was playing scum.

The argument that she shouldn't be allowed to play (either officially, or via self-sensorship) is silly. This argument can always be applied to the best player at any game. But if we remove the best player, we then have a new "best player", who then by the same logic should also be removed from the game, until Zerker is left playing by himself - which would be no fun for anyone, including him because noone would vote for him, and he'd lose his self-imposed jester win condition.

I second the call that people should build on Amy's reasoning to improve their own playstyle - it's definitely what I do when I play in games with her. It is annoying that often she doesn't provide reasoning, but again I second bio's argument that when this happens, she should be forced to spell it out, rather than everyone blindly following her.

I get the feeling that the stats she presented "proving" how good she was, was more of an attempt to not have to do just that - but I maintain that overall this is scummy behaviour. But if the majority if the players are happy to blindly follow her statements as fact, she won't change her playstyle. But this is also why I find her hard to read - I see her as scum in every game, because she issues opinions as fact, with little to no reasoning to back them up.

This behaviour at least partly developed (probably) due to her being town a ridiculously large proportion of the time during her early playing (again I wasn't here for this, but I have heard about it / read about it) - as a result she was the anti-mega, i.e. always town. And worse than that - she was always town with a good scumdar, so people learned to trust her.

The problem with that is the same as betting red after a string of red in roulette. It is stupid, and shows a misunderstanding of probability. Amy has the same chance of being scum as the rest of us. And when she is scum, you can be sure she's using her super-scumdar to help scum, not town. She frequently picks the power roles when she is scum, and tells her scum-mates early, even if she isn't able to stay alive much as scum.

As for Newbies being "assumed town", the fact is there are very few newbies who can play as perfect town. Most will give off scumtells by accident - and as a result most newbies end up being in the possible town / possible scum group. As a result it is also usually quite difficult to have "confirmed scum" in newbies, as you can never tell if they're newbie town messing up. I do think playing newbie games first can be beneficial, but this is difficult when there is only one newbie game going at once (at most), and signups are usually only once per month, or probably less frequent than that.

I know I didn't play any newbie games - and by the time the first newbie game happened after I started playing, I was already past the 3-4 game threshold for being considered a newbie. But I never could resist signing up for a game that interested me - even if I should have waited for a newbie game. I think I was lucky in that I played town for my first 5-6 games - unfortunately this cannot be implemented as a rule or policy, obviously. Still, I got quite a lot out of "jumping right in", and my first game was very non-standard ("Snakes and Ladders, lovers edition") which combined mafia with snakes and ladders, and everyone was in a lover pair. Far from a standard game.

Anyway, I think I've used up my wall-o-text quota for today, so I'll end my rambling there.

[Van]

Wizardry V2:

Spoiler:

Hm. I'm vaguely annoyed that if I had bothered to queue my potions earlier, Lataro would've just suicided for nothing.

I have some thoughts, and one of them is definitely "and that is balanced relative to other L2 spells how?" I'm pretty sure you guys had to forsee that question coming, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. Having said that, if your post in any way includes the words "it is balanced because the caster dies", I will point out that Wish, duplicating Lataro's casting or a similarly worded one just jumped to the single most valuable spell in the game, period. Regardless of my role, if I am going to be lynched, it makes absolute sense to want to take someone I find scummy with me. Obviously there's a huge scum advantage there because they actually know who isn't on their side, but the point still remains.

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

The mods decide the power of a wish based on exactly what will happen as a result of it. In this case, I'm assuming they made Shield block the effect because they thought a suicide bomb spell was balanced, but a double suicide bomb spell wasn't. If you had had shield up, it would probably not have saved you, because the mods would not make the wish be "suicide for nothing".

I agree that Wish is the most valuable spell in the game, though, for exactly that reason: Its effect shouldn't be better than a level 2 spell's effect when it works, but the mods have explicitly said that its effect will always be beneficial to the caster, where the other spells don't have that guarantee (e.g. fireballing someone with a shield, Revelationing someone with Deceive Spell)

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

More or less correct. Krong wasn't going to die. If he hadn't had a shield he would have been drained a spell maybe. In terms of balance we try to keep it around the same as level 2. Your death for the death of another is strictly worse than fireball, making it a daykill brings the power level up considerably, taking away the role reveals lowers the power level vs a normal daykill, etc. etc.

There's also a little bump from the wish itself. Saying I want to be sucked into a black hole along with these people, gets you a little power reward versus Kill me Van, and that other person, which would likely get you a less powerful wish. If the wish is way overpowered, for example if Lataro had say asked for you and Krong to simply be killed without sacrificing himself, the wish would probably have been almost entirely detrimental to him.

Basically making a wish is gamble, if you are creative, specific, and walk a fine line between just right and overpowered, mods are in a good mood, etc. it can be really useful. If not it could be weak or flat out detrimental.

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Hm. I don't really agree with your thinking there, but in truth it doesn't really matter: I don't get a say, and I'm not at all interested in making a fuss over it anyway the whole thing just functioned like a vastly sped up night process. Lataro was lynched, and I was NKed: more or less exactly what I expected to happen when I claimed, except I didn't get to fireball anyone else In truth, this is probably slightly more beneficial to town, because it prevents two magic missiles.

For now, I'm going to go play some Dwarf Fortress (since I don't have to analyze anyone, woo) and turn off my brain. I am looking forward to seeing if my suspicions were right and a final thought dump later, but for now: amazing game, guys. seriously.

Lataro, this would probably make for the start of a beautiful feud. You have to admit it's a very classical setup! Ah, well.

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Oh man, I've been playing Dwarf Fortress for the last 12 hours...

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Van cancels Drink Potion: interrupted by Black Hole.

[Brooklynxman]

It was a fast game that challenged expectations, that everyone seemed to enjoy. It was deceptively simple, and that is what I think we lack right now. We can add all the layers of complexity that we like to games, but thinking through those layers is tiring, in "vanilla" everyone was happily doing only one job. Trying to find scum by post analysis. (Except the Neurosurgeon and those that she fixed...)

Though I suppose I crafted it to be as close as possible to my ideal game, so I might be biased.

No.

[ameretrifle]

Hi NaR! You remember that bunny you like so much? I think he has made a friend!

Oh for christ's sake don't look at me like that. Yes, this one has eyes. It is a perfectly normal plushie from a perfectly normal pattern I got on the internet and I made *sure* to give it eyes, just for you.

I hope the attachments work. If not, let me know so I can upload his adorable mug to photobucket:

Spoiler:

See? Eyes, dammit!

At first I don't think Bunnie liked him very much.

Spoiler:

Haters gonna hate but bunnies gonna... shank?

I really was worried for a moment.

Spoiler:

high noon

But then it worked out okay!

Spoiler:

kiss me you tentacled eldritch fool

And now they are bestest friends.

Spoiler:

All you need is love~

Anyway, I just thought you would like to know how your favorite "cosmic horror" is doing~ See you in Scrubs!

[Not A Raptor]

*twitch*

[Brooklynxman]

I will not laugh I will not oh screw it.

Ultimate win.

[Dr Ug]

I do not want to see their offspring... Ok I do want to see their offspring... (and NaR's response to said offspring)


Only 10 spots left in Buffy Mafia - you don't want to miss this one - it's going to be HUGE (well, large* anyway)

* large = 26 players

[AngrySquirrel]

Uhm, so hi guys.

Sorry, about disappearing so abruptly and leaving the vanilla game in such a mess. Lots of things just went really wrong all at once.

Still going quite a bit in and out of the hospital and dealing with some other stuff as well, so won't be around much, and not reliable at all. I just wanted to apologize.

Sorry.

[Mavketl]

I don't think you need to apologize, circumstances were pretty much out of your control. And really, if there is ever a conflict between Important Life Stuffs and Mafia, it's pretty clear which one should always have priority, anyway.

Good luck with dealing with crappy things!

Vanilla:

Spoiler:

Grah, frustration. I have a pretty strong feeling about who the scum players are, I just don't see a way to convince people to kill them. Right now the lynch seems to be going between two people I'm pretty sure are townies (with the two scum happily voting for them).

I need some mad skillz and I need them now!

[Aardvarki]

Wizardry (Response to Van, players cannot read):

Spoiler:

Van, here's the way I saw it:
Let's say Lataro had cast Invisibility instead of Wish. Town proved last time around that they weren't going to kill invisibility off of a more-or-less confirmed scum. Town would be forced to lynch someone other than Lataro. Lataro MIGHT have died during the night, he may not have. You probably would have been NKed.

With invisibility:
Town can't lynch Lataro D3
Van probably Dies N3
Lataro might Die N3, but would be lynched D4
Sorcs get a Magic Missile

With Wish:
Town can't lynch Lataro D3
Van Dies D3
Lataro Dies D3
Sorcs don't get Magic Missiles
Krong loses a Shield, but becomes a nearly-confirmed townie

Compared to casting Invisibility on himself, Lataro's Wish had almost exactly the same outcome. Honestly, I think the outcome for town was BETTER than the outcome if Lataro had cast invisibility, all things considered. The way I see it, every day that passes, town's chances against the Sorcerers slips lower and lower. If both Sorcerers are still alive D5, I do not think town stands a snowball's chance in hell, even if both mafia are killed.

I think if you had a shield on you before the wish Van, we would have drained some spells from both you and Krong but let both of you live, and would probably have done so without informing town of Krong's identity.


To address one note by Elvish Pillager, regarding Wish "always being beneficial for the caster" - If you ask for a Wish that is similar to an Evocation spell, but your target has a Shield active, it will block your Wish. If you ask for a Wish that is similar to a Divination spell, but your target has Deceive Spell active, I will probably return you incorrect results. When I told you that wish would "always be beneficial", I meant that "We won't fuck you over when you cast a wish". It's entirely possible that nothing good happens as a result of a wish. Realistically, the first wish had very few positive benefits for the Scum, even though it was a scum wish.

Lataro's alternate wish, before he decided on the 'Black Hole' wish, was "I wish for the portal to send the next person to go though it to this room three days into the future alive and well." If he had used this as his wish instead, there is absolutely no way we would have granted it as he wanted it. What we would PROBABLY have done instead is still killed him, but not revealed his role until D6. We probably would have tried to make everyone THINK that Lataro got his wish exactly as asked for, too, until we revealed his death flavor. We'd probably have had a little bit of fun with it... Something like on the D6 morning flavor "You find a broken and crushed corpse of Lataro on the ground. He must've re-appeared in this room, alive and well, but he must've re-appeared near the ceiling, 50 feet up, and fallen to his death. Shame he didn't have 'Feather Fall' prepared!" I think that would've been more fun, and more in line with what we wanted "Wish" to do in the first place.

As it's been used in this game, Wish made more significant events occur than the regular spells, but each event was no more beneficial for one side or the other than a second-level spell. In fact, I believe both wishes were slightly less beneficial for the caster than a different second-level spell would have been. If Lataro had a Consume Magic prepared instead of his first wish, he could have drained NaRs Invis and stolen a spell for himself to use, leading to NaR's lynch but netting himself a level-one spell... Plus, at the time of the first wish, many townies had used up their spellcasts for the day already, the Wish allowed all of them to cast spells during N2 that they wouldn't have been able to cast during N1, a net positive for the town. If Lataro had an invisibility prepared instead of his second wish, he could have possibly stayed alive to D4 with essentially the same kills taking place.


When you read it in that light, I hope you understand and agree that Wish is essentially balanced with the other spells, in that the net positive effect for the casting team is never greater than if a different spell had been used instead.

[Van]

Wizardry (Response to Van, players cannot read):

Spoiler:

When you read it in that light, I hope you understand and agree that Wish is essentially balanced with the other spells, in that the net positive effect for the casting team is never greater than if a different spell had been used instead.

Wizardry V2:

Spoiler:

I don't know if you caught my sort of abrupt about-face between the "wtf yo" and "s'all good" posts, but in the first I was just annoyed that I died. I liked this game, and I was rather sad that it was "over" After a little reflection, I realized that I was dangerously close to jackassery over something I'd intentionally done fully expecting something very similar to happen.

Any disagreement I have largely stems from me not liking unformulaic abilities, e.g. something that targets multiple people and ignores defenses on some of them (which is what I thought occured at the time). On the other hand, that's a bit like complaining that my meal was served with a complementary 10lb gold fly in my soup, so yeah, pass on that

I don't mean to keep gushing over Wizardry (well, maybe a little), but it is about as close to my ideal game as I think it is possible to get, and it goes without saying I would really really appreciate a PM if you get around to running another Wizardry game (or similar setup) If I can manage to pull myself away from DF somehow, I still needwant to finish my commentary...

[Adacore]

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

I'm only now realising just how crazy-dangerous the sorcerers are going to be if we don't find them soon. With free reign on spell selection, and assuming they've been conservative with casting in the early game they're going to be able to do utterly insane things once the majority of townies are low on spells. A saturation magic-missile barrage, for example - if both sorcs somehow decided to start that tomorrow, we could have 6 magic missiles a day, which would batter through our defences very quickly. Or if a sorc was cornered, he could cast invisibility on himself for 4 days in a row, say, while sending out his free magic missile each night and relying on quickened shields to defend himself. The flexibility presented by not having to define spell picks combined with the awesome power of having 12 total slots is very, very scary.

[Lataro]

Wizard V2:

Spoiler:

You are missing the most important thing Aardvarki.

I died on my terms, and got to do something crazy. I call that a win.

[Sungura]

To all games I am in: I will not be around Friday through Sunday of this week. I'm going to Canada! To an xkcd meetup! WEE!

[Sungura]

North Pole

Spoiler:

I am having so many troubles figuring out the last scum. Weyoli? Dr Ug? maybe Lataro? The later two are usually scummy though. Any more than normal? I dunno. I think the problem is, other than matkavl EVERYONE IS ACTING SO FREAKIN SCUMMY. >_<

And, the horrible logic abounds. I just. Wow. Know what? I hope they lynch me tomorrow. Serves them right. _infina_ and I give them two of three scum DAY FREAKIN ONE and we do two scum lynches in a FREAKIN ROW (i'm assuming it will be a mister k lynch) and they still think I'm scum? HA. I just. I don't know what even. Farblgubler.

Vanilla

Spoiler:

Hmm looks like we will get a Big Nose lynch. This is bad for me tomorrow though...I'll be wrong twice, you know it'll get blamed on me both times >_> because it totally takes just one person to lynch someone >_>

North Pole & Vanilla

Spoiler:

See, this is what get so dang frustraiting for me. In North Pole, poor logic and assumptions of me being scum after giving them two scum in a row, day 1 and day 2. Yes, _infina_ helped yesterday. And yes, it takes everyone to lynch. But still, they are blaming me for leading, and then blaming me for being scum and leading them in lynching scum? I don't get it.

Then let's look at vanilla. I am scum there, btw, in case you've missed it. I'm just playing it like I see it though. Name was the most scummy yesterday, BigNose is the most today, with Lataro coming close behind impo. Anyway, say this BigNose lynch goes through. Awesome. But, I was the first to vote name, and the first to vote BigNose. So I will get called out for bad scumdar and assumed scum. Yes, correctly assumed, but I will get the sole blame for it and no one else who voted both will be looked at, which is again a logic fail.

I can cite many a game too where I will be wrong once or so, and right the rest of the game, or right for a bit then wrong once, and as soon as I am wrong, it's "Oh shit she's scum lynch her she's wrong". Again, just logic fail.

If I'm not killed N1, the town is actually usually my biggest detriment.

You want Amy meta? fine, have it. Normally, my "reasons" are weak because i pick out scum based on slight phrasing nuances that are hard to explain, I've tried, and people don't believe me and say I have no reason for my vote. But, these slight nuances and "vibes" if you will are the ones that are right, "actual evidence" tends to surface later, if they are left alive, which I can add, but the initial is the slight variances. When I'm forced to a position where I need a lot of "actual evidence" it is much more likely I am wrong because doing that forces me to look at exactly not the nuances, but the "hardcore" issues.

I've said this before in this thread. And I'm saying it again. And it probably still doesn't make sense to most of you.

[Brooklynxman]

I don't think you need to apologize, circumstances were pretty much out of your control. And really, if there is ever a conflict between Important Life Stuffs and Mafia, it's pretty clear which one should always have priority, anyway.

Good luck with dealing with crappy things!

Mafia should win, right?

[Elvish Pillager]

Wizardry (Response to Van, players cannot read):

Spoiler:

When you read it in that light, I hope you understand and agree that Wish is essentially balanced with the other spells, in that the net positive effect for the casting team is never greater than if a different spell had been used instead.

Wizardry

Spoiler:

"The net positive effect for the casting team is never greater than if a different spell had been used instead" still doesn't give you a balanced Wish, though. Even if a cleverly constructed Wish is slightly less useful than a similar existing spell, preparing Wish gives you a huge advantage in flexibility. If I were to run this game, I'd make the guideline be "about the strength of a L1 spell".

On the other hand, the performance of Wish in *this* game makes it seem balanced... the second one was effectively Shieldbreaker

As an aside, I don't think Invisibility is worthwhile for scum (and hence, I think that Lataro's second wish wasn't much use.) Anyone protected by Invisibility is almost certainly going to be lynched the next day, so it just switches the lynch target for the current day and the next. Sure, it allows the protected player to cast spells that night - but at the cost of casting a level 2 spell. It's still worthwhile for the Lich (because their spells for the night include an additional recruit) and the Sorcerers (because they can cast it a lot of times, and only have one player to protect).

A more effective strategy for scum would be to cast Invisibility on a townie with a few votes on them. Although I guess that means that audacious scum could claim that their own invisibility was a frame-up.

[Dr Ug]

I don't think you need to apologize, circumstances were pretty much out of your control. And really, if there is ever a conflict between Important Life Stuffs and Mafia, it's pretty clear which one should always have priority, anyway.

Good luck with dealing with crappy things!

Mafia should win, right?

Obviously.

[ElectricHaze]

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

I <3 Wish.

[Dr Ug]

North Pole:

Spoiler:

Amy is really pinging me more than usual in this game. But I seriously struggle to tell when she's towny acting scummily, or scum. I don't like the way b.i.o has come to her defence, but I also am concerned about Mr K's activities. He was acting quite suspiciously, and really hasn't made much of a defense.

My pick is still Mr K as Mafia B / Amy as the other mafia A, but b.i.o may actually be the mafia B member...

Wizardry 2.0:

Spoiler:

The loss of the evil alchemist followed by lataro's implosion is not helping our cause. The lynch from D1 was probably the best possible outcome for us, as it means we don't have a cult to contend with (unless he miraculously got a recruit off during the 30 second N1). I think I need to try to out the sorcerers - that should allay the suspicion that I am one myself, and hopefully imply me being town, rather than mafia.

[ElectricHaze]

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Have thought some more. I think I will wish. I have my reasons. If you'd like to hear them, I'd be happy to oblige ;]

Cast Wish: I wish to repent for my sins and join the Town, as a force for Good, and to retain my sorcerer spells, abilities and powers, so that I may aid the town to the best of my ability.

Let's see how this goes.

Prime example of ridiculous game-breaking wish. Also, has led to the most amusing wish result yet!

[Dr Ug]

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

That seriously seems uber-broken, but maybe there is more to it. I have complained via PM to the mods, and been told that my worries are neeless - still, being able to convert both SKs to town with the ability to keep their powers... seriously?

[ameretrifle]

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Have thought some more. I think I will wish. I have my reasons. If you'd like to hear them, I'd be happy to oblige ;]

Cast Wish: I wish to repent for my sins and join the Town, as a force for Good, and to retain my sorcerer spells, abilities and powers, so that I may aid the town to the best of my ability.

Let's see how this goes.

Prime example of ridiculous game-breaking wish. Also, has led to the most amusing wish result yet!

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

For us lazy popcorn-eaters, could I ask exactly what was the catch? ;D

[ElectricHaze]

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

That seriously seems uber-broken, but maybe there is more to it. I have complained via PM to the mods, and been told that my worries are neeless - still, being able to convert both SKs to town with the ability to keep their powers... seriously?

Wizardry(No one playing can read):

Spoiler:

What you think happened is not what we said happened. You are making a lot of assumptions here. If people take the time to read the flavor and how we granted that wish you should be able to figure it out. Also, Jayhsu isn't really helping himself with how he is reacting to the results. Hehe.

[Krong]

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Assuming that Wish worked as advertised, I'd be kicking myself right now if I were sorcerer without Wish. Note to self for future games -- join town, by any means necessary.

Of course, there's a little to be wary about. Lataro's Wish #1... well, I'm not sure what his intended effect was, but it wasn't that, though it was along the lines of "weird things with time". Lataro's Wish #2 basically worked, but was vulnerable to shielding. Jayhsu's Wish... ???

[Not A Raptor]

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

That seriously seems uber-broken, but maybe there is more to it. I have complained via PM to the mods, and been told that my worries are neeless - still, being able to convert both SKs to town with the ability to keep their powers... seriously?

Wizardry(No one playing can read):

Spoiler:

What you think happened is not what we said happened. You are making a lot of assumptions here. If people take the time to read the flavor and how we granted that wish you should be able to figure it out. Also, Jayhsu isn't really helping himself with how he is reacting to the results. Hehe.

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Are you going to spit it out, or am I going to have to wait until the end of the game to see what happened?

[ElectricHaze]

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

That seriously seems uber-broken, but maybe there is more to it. I have complained via PM to the mods, and been told that my worries are neeless - still, being able to convert both SKs to town with the ability to keep their powers... seriously?

Wizardry(No one playing can read):

Spoiler:

What you think happened is not what we said happened. You are making a lot of assumptions here. If people take the time to read the flavor and how we granted that wish you should be able to figure it out. Also, Jayhsu isn't really helping himself with how he is reacting to the results. Hehe.

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Are you going to spit it out, or am I going to have to wait until the end of the game to see what happened?

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Aren't we an impatient one... Of course you're going to have to wait.

[Brooklynxman]

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

That seriously seems uber-broken, but maybe there is more to it. I have complained via PM to the mods, and been told that my worries are neeless - still, being able to convert both SKs to town with the ability to keep their powers... seriously?

Wizardry(No one playing can read):

Spoiler:

What you think happened is not what we said happened. You are making a lot of assumptions here. If people take the time to read the flavor and how we granted that wish you should be able to figure it out. Also, Jayhsu isn't really helping himself with how he is reacting to the results. Hehe.

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Are you going to spit it out, or am I going to have to wait until the end of the game to see what happened?

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Aren't we an impatient one... Of course you're going to have to wait.

Wizardy:

Spoiler:

Quote pyramid away. Tell us. You know you must. At least pm us.

[Not A Raptor]

Scrubs:

Spoiler:

I'm running off of a lot of short "Idiot has a point" posts, now.

[ameretrifle]

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

That seriously seems uber-broken, but maybe there is more to it. I have complained via PM to the mods, and been told that my worries are neeless - still, being able to convert both SKs to town with the ability to keep their powers... seriously?

Wizardry(No one playing can read):

Spoiler:

What you think happened is not what we said happened. You are making a lot of assumptions here. If people take the time to read the flavor and how we granted that wish you should be able to figure it out. Also, Jayhsu isn't really helping himself with how he is reacting to the results. Hehe.

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Are you going to spit it out, or am I going to have to wait until the end of the game to see what happened?

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Aren't we an impatient one... Of course you're going to have to wait.

Wizardy:

Spoiler:

Quote pyramid away. Tell us. You know you must. At least pm us.

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Plush Cthulhu demands it.

C'mon, at least give us vague, douchebaggy hints. You want to gloat. You know you want to. ;D

[Dr Ug]

Goddammit. I hate when I start a quote pyramid that I can't read...

[Lataro]

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

That seriously seems uber-broken, but maybe there is more to it. I have complained via PM to the mods, and been told that my worries are neeless - still, being able to convert both SKs to town with the ability to keep their powers... seriously?

Wizardry(No one playing can read):

Spoiler:

What you think happened is not what we said happened. You are making a lot of assumptions here. If people take the time to read the flavor and how we granted that wish you should be able to figure it out. Also, Jayhsu isn't really helping himself with how he is reacting to the results. Hehe.

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Are you going to spit it out, or am I going to have to wait until the end of the game to see what happened?

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Aren't we an impatient one... Of course you're going to have to wait.

Wizardy:

Spoiler:

Quote pyramid away. Tell us. You know you must. At least pm us.

Wizardry:

Spoiler:

Plush Cthulhu demands it.

C'mon, at least give us vague, douchebaggy hints. You want to gloat. You know you want to. ;D

Wizard:

Spoiler:

C'mon, as the only other caster of wish, I deserve to know the outcome!

[Misnomer]

Wizardry2

Spoiler:

”Cyrnfr Zbq, tenag zl jvfu!” - Someone has cast Wish.

I wish to repent for my sins and join the Town, as a force for Good, and to retain my sorcerer spells, abilities and powers,

As the Sorcerer rambled on about his Wish, the mods stopped listening (not that they were really paying attention in the first place) and the room fell silent (except for that guy who won't stop talking and realize that wishes have a maximum length)...

Wish Granted.

Suddenly, a bright white glow enveloped one of the group, lifting him high into the air. A column of light shot down from the sky, temporarily blinding everyone present. As the light faded, the one in the center could clearly be identified. By the power of the light, Jayhsu is drained of his essence and made anew so that his journey can begin for a new set of goals.


Jayhsu's alignment has been changed. His win condition has been updated. Yee-haw!

Coward! Traitor! INFIDEL!

I'm hoping there's some massive bastardry at work here, because if he has become town then that really does make me sad. A townie sorceror would only need to make it to the endgame and kill everyone in order for town to win - and killing everyone would be easy enough if he chose the right feats. I'd be tempted to wish to join scum in order to balance things out, but from the looks of things the act of wishing would reveal my identity, so little would be achieved... I might look into it...


Also,

Leaning Town:
Misnomer - Posts seem reasonable. Though they're a bit timid and noncommittal, this seems to match his usual playstyle.

Mission acomplished!

[Adacore]

Wizardry2:

Spoiler:

I'm not sure I've ever seen a game with so many spoilers. And I've been in some games with a lot of spoilers.

Also, I'm mega-surprised if Jayhsu was actually allowed to get away with that wish unaltered by the mods. If that wish were possible then surely everyone in the anti-town factions could just have made it D1 for an instant 'everybody wins' scenario. It unbalances the game somewhat against the remaining scum and sorc, I'd think.

Perhaps it's more an indication of just how screwed we, as town, are that the wish was allowed? Maybe the remaining evil wizards and sorc are among our 'most trusted townies' list? THIS GAME IS CONFUSING. But this time, not because of the spell complexity.

[Mavketl]

Vanilla:

Spoiler:

Oh god THANK YOU Silknor for that Lataro vote. I was starting to think it was never going to happen and now things seem to be moving in the right direction finally. This was a nice thing to wake up to today.

[Misnomer]

Mafiaballs:

Spoiler:

Assuming that BN is telling the truth, it looks like it's going to be between DL and Nyssa - and of those two, Nyssa is certainly the one who should be lynched. I'll be annoyed if DL turns out scum though, because it would essentially be a win by lurking.

Who knows, maybe I'll be nk'd and the decision will be taken out of my hands.

And on a related note, anybody object to me hosting the next Newbie game? I've been meaning to start hosting games, but feel I should probably do a simple open setup before inflciting my more insane ideas on the forum. Will probably use a basic F11 setup, or something similar to it - at any rate, all the roles and mechanics will be standard.

Nb: Oh yeah, and I intend to commit the ultimate heresy and make it werewolf themed.

[Elvish Pillager]

Wizardry2

Spoiler:

”Cyrnfr Zbq, tenag zl jvfu!” - Someone has cast Wish.

I wish to repent for my sins and join the Town, as a force for Good, and to retain my sorcerer spells, abilities and powers,

As the Sorcerer rambled on about his Wish, the mods stopped listening (not that they were really paying attention in the first place) and the room fell silent (except for that guy who won't stop talking and realize that wishes have a maximum length)...

Wish Granted.

Suddenly, a bright white glow enveloped one of the group, lifting him high into the air. A column of light shot down from the sky, temporarily blinding everyone present. As the light faded, the one in the center could clearly be identified. By the power of the light, Jayhsu is drained of his essence and made anew so that his journey can begin for a new set of goals.


Jayhsu's alignment has been changed. His win condition has been updated. Yee-haw!

Coward! Traitor! INFIDEL!

I'm hoping there's some massive bastardry at work here, because if he has become town then that really does make me sad. A townie sorceror would only need to make it to the endgame and kill everyone in order for town to win - and killing everyone would be easy enough if he chose the right feats. I'd be tempted to wish to join scum in order to balance things out, but from the looks of things the act of wishing would reveal my identity, so little would be achieved... I might look into it...


Also,

Leaning Town:
Misnomer - Posts seem reasonable. Though they're a bit timid and noncommittal, this seems to match his usual playstyle.

Mission acomplished!

Wizardry (for Misnomer after they die or the game ends)

Spoiler:

AHA! The players may not be so quick, but I had you pegged as a sorc. My biggest piece of evidence was this post:

So much for hoping things seem clearer in the morning...

The speed at which Lataro self-destructed seems odd, but I guess its possible that he was concerned his wish would be rejected of he left it any later. Anyways, it seems safe to conclude that he was the evil wizard, as there'd be no advantage in any of the other evils falseclaiming, and a sorceror would not have given up so quickly.

Krong is pretty much confirmed town now, as for him not to be the remaining alchemist, both him and Van would need to have lied, which wouldn't fit with Lataro's self-destruction.

Jayhsu's analysis posts are similar to the ones he did in Wizardry 1, so his behaviour seems consistent enough. It doesn't of course rule out him being scum trying to appear townie, but there's nevertheless no obvious change in playstyle.

Who got rid of Dr Ug's magic missile?

It was just the right combination of neutral tone, fairly uninsightful observations, and a bit of needless mentioning sorcerer strategy. It just really doesn't sound like you're trying to help town with this post (but also not trying to deliberately mislead them about other players - hence a sorcerer rather than mafia).

I did also have the advantage of having read some spoilers and thus known that some other players *weren't* sorcerers.

[Adacore]

Vanilla:

Spoiler:

Well, so long as Mavketl holds her nerve, they should have this one. She really is very good at this stuff. Yays!

Also, she indirectly brings up an interesting point for the big debate above - a townie who is absolutely amazingly awesome-good at finding scum is going to be in trouble when they get a scum role, as their failure to explicitly nail scum in the first couple of Days would be seen as a solid scumtell. This compounds, of course, the issue I mentioned earlier that scum would be trying to kill off such an analytical mastermind if they were town. If such a player gets to D3 without either (a) successfully accusing at least one scum player or (b) being killed to death by the mafia, they're probably scum themselves and should be lynched.

[b.i.o]

Vanilla:

Spoiler:

Well, so long as Mavketl holds her nerve, they should have this one. She really is very good at this stuff.

Vanilla

Spoiler:

Yeah really.

[Elvish Pillager]

Vanilla:

Spoiler:

Also, with only one scum and a self-protecting doctor left, the town caaaan't loooooooose