[Mini] Somnambulist Amnesia - Game Over: The Town Wins

[Not A Raptor]

I'm not hammering vector. I believe the survivorclaim. Why, after the realname fracas? Well, mostly it's because of this resignedness. That's the sort of thing I'd pull when I'd be up against the wall, by which time I'm pretty much telling the truth (or refusing to elaborate on some things). The real name bit does escape me. There doesn't seem to be a legitimate reason behind it... though, as survivor, not necessarily adhering to strictly towny play is an option, if willing to seem like a useful pawn to the mafia... in which case a lynch only makes sense as a "this person might as well be a scum supporter" move. It could also have been somebody searching for something -anything- to talk about to appear active and useful, and then defending it to the death when confronted about its implications. Given vector's playstyle, it's that last possibility that makes the most sense. I wouldn't lynch.

[vector]

Actually, it was just because I was interested in what the damned names did. I don't support the scum. When given half a chance, I ally with town because, simply speaking, it's a heck of a lot easier to scumhunt than it is to sit around just... surviving. Town games are fun, and scum games are just kind of stressful.

So. There you have it.

[mpolo]

vector's claim is actually surprisingly believable. I could see there being an independent in the setup, and I suppose, in normal gameplay, he would be looking to get his hands on a kill to support whichever side seems to be ahead. It would be really funny/ironic if he were a "serial killer" who isn't guaranteed to keep a kill because of the switchers -- funny from the outside, tragic for him, since it's practically impossible to win as an SK even with a working kill function.

The interest in the RealNames is the point where I'm still not convinced completely. At least for me, having no information whatsoever about the names (other than my own, of course), I immediately wrote it off as something not particularly interesting to me. Until the mod starts saying, "Everybody with a last name starting with Kratzold (a fictional letter in the fictional Zulbeti alphabet -- can't be too careful about accidentally breaking the no-name-claiming rule) gets a free investigation", I was content to leave it as just another piece of information. But Vector got really interested. It could be that he is telling the truth, and he just grabbed onto the one non-standard piece of information that he received in his email, and tried to get as much out of it as possible.

Elvish Pillager's idea that the names are connected with the scum's way of passing information to one another was for me like a flash of light in the darkness. Suddenly it made sense that we had names to protect, at least in general -- in a certain sense, it would have been enough that the scum had names to do this, and the rest of us needn't have been bothered with it.

Mister k said that he would be looking at Elvish Pillager if this lynch didn't work out, but this idea was rejected because the scum don't know one another. Another possibility, which at the moment I am not particularly standing behind -- just want to mention it, is that Elvish Pillager is scum, and therefore knows why the RealNames are important, and so came out with this theory to get an easy lynch on someone who he suspects of not being scum for one reason or another.

That said, I am leaving my vote where it is for a few reasons:

1) With his claim, vector is only marginally helpful to us as town. He would drop us as soon as the chips were down for us, even if he would likely be a good townish player in the early days of the game. If it were to get to 2 mafia, 2 town, and him, for example, he might very well jump ship.
2) If we switch targets now, vector is left swimming in a huge lake of wine, and we are going to spend the whole game wading in and around it.
3) The argument that I have created against EP seems to be quite weak to me. I have seen nothing else in his play that would indicate scumminess.

mister k has that air of scumminess about him, and I am not willing to just write it off as "he always seems scummy", but because he always seems scummy, the bar is a little higher. I've been involved in lynching him as a townie too many times. (Which is convenient for him if he happens to be scum, but I can't do much about it.)

[BigNose]

I actually DON'T believe Vector and here is why:
We are all supposedly suffering from Amnesia, so about the only thing we are likely to 'know' from our PM's is our RoleName (not RealName) and whether we are a Scientist or not.
While I don't disagree that a Survivor role is possible, I am not sure that you would have been told that in the PM and therefore, no-one would know and therefore Vector is lying.

We are close to lynch, so I won't vote at the moment, so as to get the converstion going on this point.

Vector: I am close to voting on you.

And I am totally the best daytime miller ever.

And here is another!

[vector]

... I was informed that I was an independent survivor. That is all. Vote me, don't vote me, that's your choice--but I'm not lying, and really have nothing to gain from doing so.

[RoadieRich]

Votals:
Misterk: 1 (Vector)
Vector: 5 (Dr Ug, mpolo, misterk, roband, Misnomer)

13 players survive, 7 to lynch.

[Elvish Pillager]

Nothing to gain? NAR is actually advocating not lynching you based on the claim. Your claim seems somewhat believable, but it could also be a risky (and under the circumstances, what else is there?) scum gambit, since the closer to lynch you are when you claim, the more believable it is.

Since a survivor lynch is now the worst-case scenario, I'm leaving my vote where it is (well, technically it's not on you right now, but you get the idea.)

[BigNose]

Unfortunately, that potentially leaves us with 'who do we vote for now' scenario.

I think I will vote for Vector, just not yet (see previous post), which includes hammering her if necessary, partly because of my disbelief of her 'Survivor' call, but unfortunately, lynching her would also help clear up the WIne surrounding her at.

(Must wait for others: Vote: Vector. Resist, RESIST!)

[roband]

I now understand why Vector didn't want a non-lynch today - as a Survivor, that's only stringing the game out longer and is no help at all.

I agree with the previous posts about the possibility of wine later on in the game and the problems that will come with it.
As it is, I think that any non-town lynch is a positive lynch, unless we feel that Vector can help us scum-hunt.

For now, I will
Unvote

and see what others have to say.

[felltir]

I have to say, (quickly, I'm at work) that a claim like that, and resignedness, is how I always play when about to be lynched, and here's the big bit whether I am actually scum or not.

This means that I think we can't trust Vector's claim at all.

will go through all posts and analyse later.

may really case I think.

[felltir]

ebwop

may really make a good case

[vector]

I have to say, (quickly, I'm at work) that a claim like that, and resignedness, is how I always play when about to be lynched, and here's the big bit whether I am actually scum or not.

This means that I think we can't trust Vector's claim at all.

That is your meta. Don't apply it to me. I'm sure that you can think of plenty of people who wouldn't resign themselves to being lynched, can't you?

So stop indulging logical fallacies and fight the good fight, not the convenient one.

I now understand why Vector didn't want a non-lynch today - as a Survivor, that's only stringing the game out longer and is no help at all.

Or maybe I'm playing with town and honestly think a no-lynch would be bad for us.

I will keep on saying this as many times as I have to: I meant everything I've said and have been playing for town. I understand, of course, that you may not believe me--but I want it on the record.

[Elvish Pillager]

Hmm, it just occurred to me that we don't actually know this:

Mod: Is every player required to submit a night target, or can a player forgo their action? And, just out of curiosity, can a player target themselves?

[RoadieRich]

All players must submit a target each night, which can be themselves. This will be edited into the OP. Your target must be alive at the start of the night.

[vector]

Replacement needed.

[Dr Ug]

Seeing as a lynch here is inevitable I would argue against a replacement.

[vector]

Fine. Lynch me, but you aren't getting any responses.

[Not A Raptor]

Let it be known that when Vector turns up survivor, I was right.

[felltir]

Mhmm. Well, I was going to analyse Vector more here. But I honestly don't see the point now.

Vote: Vector

Analysis of Dr. Ug! You're nearest to this post, so here is my analysis of you! (Due to a lot of posts, I've left out the useless ones.)

Spoiler:

Okay, now that I know about that: the presence of the mirrors is totally annoying. For instance: In normal games, a vig kill is slightly beneficial to the town because it is guaranteed not to hit the (town) vig. Here, instead of being guaranteed not to hit the vig, it's guaranteed twice as likely to hit the vig as it is to hit any other player. That *does* have the interesting consolation that it would keep the kill ability forever out of the hands of any scum switchers (to whom it's presumably more useful)... This might be a discussion for D2, though, because right now no one has any clue whether they have the kill power or not.

Mod: Can a mirror reflect the scum NK?

Aw, you stole my question.

I was going to guess that a mirror might forward anything they were targeted with to whomever they targeted, but I guess the mod text rules that out (that, and if two mirrors target each other the game divides by zero...)

Hmmm. I think that might have been the first game of mafia that could have ended in a BSOD!

Ok, speculation time.

3X Switchers - word of Mod already explained.
2X Mirrors - word of Mod already explained.
2X Cops - standard, sanity not guarranteed. I do think MoA (also welcome back MoA, we missed you!) had a good idea about claiming if it seems your role is no longer cop, although this is open to abuse by the scum.
2X Blockers - I would assume these = roleblockers.
2X Killers - Get kills. This:

However town and indie kills can - and will - kill anyone.

Makes me think that there will be a town and independent kill, and that the scum kill is not a "power" (I guess so that it can't be stollen by a switcher?). Unless this refers to the possibility of both independent and town gaining a power through switching. The wording does seem to imply that we start off with both town and independent having a kill, however.
1X Watcher - Get's told who else targetted their target (+/- their action), sometimes confused with trackers who see who their target targetted (+/- their action). Being told their action is probably unlikely in this mechanic as it would provide too much information.
1X Vanilla - I wonder if this could be "Vanilla"

As for who the scum would be, it depends on if the mafia kill is done by another mechanism (which we will probably know after N1).

If they have their own special kill: Vanilla, Switcher, Blocker; otherwise three of: Vanilla, Switcher, Blocker, Killer.

This is going to be quite an complex game, and I'm looking forward to it. Seems like it could get quite confusing with three switchers...

Reasonably useful, lengthy post about the possible setup, speculation about the scum powers. Neutral.

Expanding on that, I almost think it may be worth employing the dethy strategy of targetting the person after you in the list. It saves the chance of multiple people targetting the same person, and makes it easier for people to work out what role they are. The kill will be difficult to interpret depending on if there is an independent NK (likely a SK), and the scum almost definitely at least start with a kill - so they're unlikely to follow our plan. Still, it is worth considering.

I think this comes up with the dethy plan (which I like, but which scum can very easily fuck with, as he noted). Neutral/town.

When I said "expanding on" it was referring to a mass claim idea. I was not suggesting we should employ mass cop claim and explicit targeting at the sometime, but that it may be a superior mass claiming strategy. They both have their weaknesses - scum can narrow down their targets based on a cop mass claim - there will be claimed results that they know are faked (by being wrong).

The similarity with dethy is that everyone has a role but they don't know what it is. Helping people work out their power is helpful totown, but the downside with open targeting is that we are helping scum to find power roles. But we are doing that to some degree with any mass claim strategy, and i am surprised no one has raised the issues with mass cop-claiming . This has been raised many times in the past, and usuallybeen discarded as anti town (except in dethy)

Arguments for and against mass claiming, comparing with dethy. Neutral/town.

An individual scum player doesn't know who the other scum are, doesn't know who the town players are, and doesn't know whether they themselves are a godfather (i.e. a Mirror).

This is a very good point. I hadn't put two and two together on that point.

I am in favour of a mass cop-claim, and retract my suggestion of open targetting. With this point mass cop-claim is much more beneficial.

Comes out in favour of mass cop-claim, as it seems bad for scum. Town.

Attack something for some other reason.

He hadn't posted.

1. Lurking: scum more probable.
2. Lurking: beneficial to town to question and involve in game.
3. Lurking: can examine post-drawing-out behavior to find out if he just retreats back into his burrow when I'm done with him.

He does indeed need to defend himself, because if he doesn't I will do whatever I have to to get him lynched. That does assume some personal clout, of course, but I tend to think I'm convincing enough.

I was not arguing that your specific attack was bad, but that your proposed general strategy was. I agree that mister k has some defending to do. I just don't like explicitly random votes (which your vote on mister k was not, but your vote on Misnomer was).

As for the difficulty of town results - there are so many chances for false town results they are almost meaningless - but real scum results are meaningful, and probably worth the sacrifice of a cop. Mass-results claim allows the potential of getting more than one scum result from a single cop. If we alter your scenario slightly:

N1, Alpha is a cop. He inspects Beta and gets a truthful scum result.
D2, he says "Beta is scum. I have been a cop since N0."
N2, he becomes a switcher.
D3, he says "Gamma is town. I have been a cop since N0."
N3, he swaps with the cop again. He targeted delta, but didn't get a result (I'm fairly sure switchers are processed last)
D4, he says "Delta is town. I have been a cop since N0."
N4, he inspects Epsilon and gets a truthful scum result.
D5, he says "I am really a cop, and I have two scum results so we should lynch those people because we are at LYLO. Those scum are Alpha and Epsilon. Also I didn't get a result on N2/3 either because I was blocked or I was swapped, then swapped back in. I targetted Gamma and Delta N2/3, so if they were a cop and lost it that night, they should be able to back up my claim."

A lot of discussion of the random vote here, and then an argument for mass claiming. However, to me this hypothetical situation seems unlikely to REALLY occur... but because all discussion here seems to be townish, town/neutral.

EXTREME AMOUNTS OF ANTI RANDOM POSTS GO HERE. TOWN.

Hmmm I like EP's thinking regarding Vector. I do not, however like Felltir's. Except for the fact that scum aren't supposed to know who each other are, I'd be seeing this as scum throwing other scum under the bus. Felltir's points are much weaker than EP's argument, and unfortunately vector's defense regarding the real names doesn't gel for me:

My hope was that, should we be able to present our "real names" in some fashion, we would be able to find out ... something. Maybe there's a correlation between our starting powers and our names. Maybe the scumteam is full of names that sound the same, or similar. Maybe one name is role and the second is alignment, and so on, and so forth. Frankly, though, I'm not good at making these kinds of gigantic behavioral machine... things. What I am good at is finding patterns in data. My hope was that there would be some way to transmit the data, so that I could work with it; asking about different methods helps me highlight what parts of the names are significant.

It just doesn't really fit for me, and I am very suspicious this was scum trying to fish for a way to identify the other scum.

Vote: vector

You may be surprised, but this is, I think, a really fair analysis of mine and EP's analysis. (My analysis was pretty weak even by my standards, due to the rush it had to be prepared in.) The point about evasively bussing scum is valid. But at this point, we have to bear in mind that scum know only themselves, and no-one else. Although, I have to say that, you may not agree, but this seems to me that scum should be playing as real, diligent town, actually looking for scum, on D1. D1 means, sadly for us, the chances of getting real scum on such little data is not great (although Vector seems a good bet to me) and so scum have nothing to lose, really, from trying hard to get themselves in as town in our heads.

A few posts about real names here, and then...

Maybe it's because I'm busy being attacked over here. The answer to aggressive play over here seems to be to tell the aggressor their playstyle is detrimental and lynch them. Being passive and wishy-washy appears highly functional in this context.

This is not why I am voting you, at least. I pointed out why I think your playstyle is suboptimal, but did not vote at that time. And even then, it was only the random vote I had a problem with. I actually quite like the aggressive play, and sometimes I play the same sort of game (not always, otherwise there might be a pattern that someone could pick up on ) I could see that you would push this playstyle no matter your role, as it's how you think the game should be played. I'm voting you because asking for a way round claiming realnames is scummy.

I feel like getting at vector for one thing he said may be a reach. That said, he's been pinging me all game, in a way he doesn't so much in Buffy, and I'm willing to lynch him. If he turns up town I think I'd look a bit askew at elvish pillager though.

vote:vector

You're deflecting onto pillager for a behavior found in yourself. How as "he" been pinging you all game? How is this an adequate attack of any sort? How is this ANYTHING but a bandwagon vote?

I agree this post by mister K does look a bit off. So does his next one:

And I am totally the best daytime miller ever.

"Yes, please ignore any tell I give off - I always do this as town". That's almost enough for me to switch votes...

I can also see the point against misnomer.

This:

Are you that afraid of attacking me? Seems like y'all are afraid that if you put up any real argumentation, I might just fight back and show you for the naked emperors you are.

I have said why I am voting you, and yes - as you said - I don't think you'll be able to convince me otherwise. Your actions just seem too scummy to me.

I do like the behaviour of posting all your opinions when you're about to be lynched. This is very towny behaviour, and others should learn from it. If it wasn't for my feelings on the realname, I'd almost consider switching to Mr K.

Leans towards a towny feel for Vector because of the strong defense, but is still against due to the problems with looking for the real names. Advocates sharing all opinions if likely to be lynched. Town.

That's about it.

Verdict: Town.

[ThinkSweet]

Can I be replaced please?

Sorry everyone, I just don't have enough time to play properly in 3 games atm

[mister k]

hmm, haven't posted in a while here. Vectors lynch is inevitable, but just a point- if vector had claimed town, we totally wouldn't believe him, but if he claims survivor we suddenly do? That doesn't make a terrible amount of sense to me.

[Elvish Pillager]

I guess Lataro will be getting the rest of their hundred super mod points. I hope this means we'll get input from the former ThinkSweet soon.

What about Entropy? Entropy hasn't posted (anywhere) for a few days.

[BigNose]

Unfortunately, if Vector is replaced, the Wine surrounding her is too deep.

I think this is lynch, so that we can go on and hopefully only need the 1 replacement.

Vote: Vector

Sorry Vector, this is as much Meta, as it is Game.

[Elvish Pillager]

That's L-1, I think. Let's wait for ThinkSweet to be replaced, and for their replacement to catch up, before hammering. (They'll have to catch up anyway, since they'll need to submit a night target with everyone else, so hammering won't speed things up - it'll just cut off discussion.)

[MasterOfAll]

Hey all. I just got back from my trip to Zion, Bryce, Arches, and Canyonlands National Parks and so should be able to regularly contribute again.

I have only browsed all the posts that have been made since the last post I made, but it seems like we are really close to the end of D1. So, while I hope to be able to do a thorough read of the whole thread in the near future, I will go ahead and comment on the Vector situation now.

The survivor claim does seem suspicious to me (I think there is a very good chance that Vector is not town, although independent seems more likely than scum) so I don't have a problem with the current votes for Vecto.

I also think we should wait a bit longer for Latero (assumed replacement for ThinkSweet) to be able to weigh in on the D1 issues, as well as hopefully hear a little more from the players who have been less vocal so far.

[RoadieRich]

Lataro is replacing ThinkSweet.

[Lataro]

First off, I'm going to request an additionally fifty super mod points for this. I didn't realize the level of detailed strat reading I'd need to understand for this game. I'd like to thank EP for clearly outlining the mass cop claim strat a couple pages back, it made me hate my life less to see it all put out like that. Going over it, the logic seems sound, and I so no reason not to use it.

My mind is still spinning from playing catch up, I'm loathe to comment on vector, since I really dislike her play-style and it biases me against her tremendously. I'm gonna not hammer this so that people can bring specifics to my attention if I missed anything.

As to specifics about other people. My mind is shot from an hour and a half of reading though all that, I'll need time to process and think about it. First impressions though is that there has been a heavy amount of setup and strat spec, and very little about actual behavior. I'm personally of the opinion that in this game, we'll gain a lot of information, collectively and individually, from a night phase, and I think once we have that info, going back though D1 and matching up what we know with what others commented on will be very helpful. I realize in this respect looking at me will be pretty much useless since TS didn't really put anything forward or comment much.

As I said, it's all a jumble right now, if there were any specific points someone would like an opinion on, bringing them up individually would greatly help me to answer to them, rather than trying to comment on the broad spectrum of things.

[BigNose]

Fair point Lat.
To give you time,

Unvote

[MasterOfAll]

Okay, I just did a re-read of the last couple pages.

I am now thinking it is extremely likely that Vector has been telling the truth the entire game, and is in fact an independent with a 'survive to the end' win condition. I also think it is extremely likely that one of the NK's is in Vector's hands right now (without her knowledge, of course. Also, apologies if Vector doesn't prefer to be referred to with feminine pronouns, but consensus seems to be that way.)

So, now we have the question of whether it is better to get rid of one of the NK's right now on D1 or to keep Vector around and hope that she does indeed play a town-aligned sort of independent. My first instinct is that keeping her around will just make her the target of the majority of N1 actions, which I think would actually be detrimental to town. Also, if we do indeed take away one of the NK's then the game has a better chance of lasting longer which is generally beneficial to town. Although we would be losing one of the ways to possibly eliminate scum, making us that much more dependent on accurate lynches.

Since Lataro wanted to be asked specific questions, I will go ahead and ask a couple (anyone else is welcome to answer, of course).
1. Assuming that Vector is telling the truth about being an independent with a 'survive' win condition and that would likely mean she currently has one of the NK actions, is it better to lynch her now or to keep her around?
2. What are your thoughts on the whole "Real Name" stuff? A lot of players seem to be buying into the idea that they are somehow used during the nightly scumchat, but I am still thinking it is more likely they are going to be used during the morning flavor (which will be heavily influenced by what night actions occurred).


Now, a quick question for BigNose . . .

We are all supposedly suffering from Amnesia, so about the only thing we are likely to 'know' from our PM's is our RoleName (not RealName) and whether we are a Scientist or not.

(underline added by me)

Also, all players have been given a “Real Name” in their role PM. Due to game mechanics, name claiming is forbidden - anyone who does so will be mod-killed.

Is there some reason for your distinction between Role Name and Real Name? It was my understanding that the name given to us via our Role PM was indeed the "Real Name" that we are forbidden to disclose. (as mentioned by mod in 1st post and quoted above.)

[Lataro]

Since Lataro wanted to be asked specific questions, I will go ahead and ask a couple (anyone else is welcome to answer, of course).
1. Assuming that Vector is telling the truth about being an independent with a 'survive' win condition and that would likely mean she currently has one of the NK actions, is it better to lynch her now or to keep her around?
2. What are your thoughts on the whole "Real Name" stuff? A lot of players seem to be buying into the idea that they are somehow used during the nightly scumchat, but I am still thinking it is more likely they are going to be used during the morning flavor (which will be heavily influenced by what night actions occurred).

As to the first question, I generally view an indie with a survive to the end win condition and a NK as a SK role... Id' shed no tears over an SK getting lynched right off the bat as a rule of thumb. Moreover however, Vector has requested replacement in every game she is in, suggesting either that something came up that will be preventing her from continuing playing, or a lack of desire to continue on these forums. If we don't lynch vector, that will be another replacement that is needed. As there are currently no replacements in the list, and even if one is gotten, it is unlikely as you pointed out that they would live long given that they are are likely to be the target of several actions, a kill very possible, it would be best to keep that replacement on deck for dealing with other people who may have to leave down the line. I'm pretty sure from reading things over Vector argued herself into a corner, and as I said, I greatly dislike her play-style and tend to read it as scummy, and as such, she seems as good a lynch target as any in this situation. If nothing else and she comes back town, her comments before she asked to be replaced may prove useful.

As to the real names situation... I can see both sides being true. What I get hung up on is that they can not be claimed under any situation, and this suggests something more important than just flavorful use. It is possible that they will be used in the morning flavor, and scum will be able to eventually deduce who their team mate(s) are from that over time, thus making both suggestions true. I don't recall who said as much awhile back, but I agree that for now we shouldn't bother focusing on the real names, as they appear to have little use for townie application.

[Elvish Pillager]

Putting a survivor in a setup with three night kills seems kind of cruel. If there is a survivor, I think it's most likely that it'd start as a Mirror, not a Killer. Either way, it's probably an ability that scum want - if we were to NOT lynch vector, I'd expect the scum to target vector with their night actions, in the hope of getting Mirror or Killer.

We're pretty much locked into lynching vector, and agreed on the mass cop claim, so I don't see anything meaningful left to debate, AND we're probably going to get a bunch of useful information with the morning flavor. I'm getting kind of impatient with this day, and now that Lataro's clearly caught up,

Vote: vector

which should put it at L-1. I'm cool with people hammering any time.

[roband]

This is a "Hi, I haven't posted all weekend but I have read everything and wanted to let you all know as such" post

Vector's previous posts along with the decision to require a replacement was always going to lead to a lynch, I suppose. It would have been interesting to see if she'd been replaced earlier how another player might have tried to rescue themselves.

[Entropy]

Putting a survivor in a setup with three night kills seems kind of cruel. If there is a survivor, I think it's most likely that it'd start as a Mirror, not a Killer. Either way, it's probably an ability that scum want - if we were to NOT lynch vector, I'd expect the scum to target vector with their night actions, in the hope of getting Mirror or Killer.

This assumes that scum believe they are unlikely to have a killer role amongst them... intentionally targeting a role suspected of being a mirror does not seem like a very safe tactic.

[Elvish Pillager]

I rather doubt that the scum, who are guaranteed to have an NK, would have an additional killing ability to start with. I guess it could happen... it's also possible that they have both a killer and a blocker (which wouldn't let them steal the mirror ability, but would at least make them not die if they tried)

[Dr Ug]

Putting a survivor in a setup with three night kills seems kind of cruel. If there is a survivor, I think it's most likely that it'd start as a Mirror, not a Killer. Either way, it's probably an ability that scum want - if we were to NOT lynch vector, I'd expect the scum to target vector with their night actions, in the hope of getting Mirror or Killer.

This assumes that scum believe they are unlikely to have a killer role amongst them... intentionally targeting a role suspected of being a mirror does not seem like a very safe tactic.

In addition to this, it takes out a player who has a lot of suspicion on them, and the wine in leaving them alive is probably equally beneficial to the chance of obtaining a second kill when there is a risk of self-killing via a mirror.

Seriously, I don't think there's much left to do today other than lynch vector (especially given nothing has been brought up since he asked to be replaced).

[mpolo]

My thinking was that the Survivor likely had a NK, although the argument for mirror is also compelling. Both are powers that we'd want to keep out of scum's hands.

I don't see any way out of this vector lynch. If we fail to lynch him, he's going to get a huge pile of night actions, thus cutting out a lot of the information we should have received in the night, and making it less likely that we manage to kill a scum in the night.

As such:

Is it about time to get a time limit on Day One? It seems to be dragging considerably…

Ninjaed by Dr Ug: I concur, as seen above.

[BigNose]

Now, a quick question for BigNose . . .

We are all supposedly suffering from Amnesia, so about the only thing we are likely to 'know' from our PM's is our RoleName (not RealName) and whether we are a Scientist or not.

(underline added by me)

Also, all players have been given a “Real Name” in their role PM. Due to game mechanics, name claiming is forbidden - anyone who does so will be mod-killed.

Is there some reason for your distinction between Role Name and Real Name? It was my understanding that the name given to us via our Role PM was indeed the "Real Name" that we are forbidden to disclose. (as mentioned by mod in 1st post and quoted above.)

Nothing special. I class my RealName as BigNose. I am playing a role in this game, in which, as there is not 'flavour' per se, means that I have been given a Rolename. It's probably symantics, but it's my preferred way of reading it.

PS If we are at L-1, we only need 1 more to vote to end day.

If no-one else votes, in the meantime, I will guarantee a vote tomorrow (Tuesday), unless someone has a compelling reason NOT to.

[Elvish Pillager]

Putting a survivor in a setup with three night kills seems kind of cruel. If there is a survivor, I think it's most likely that it'd start as a Mirror, not a Killer. Either way, it's probably an ability that scum want - if we were to NOT lynch vector, I'd expect the scum to target vector with their night actions, in the hope of getting Mirror or Killer.

This assumes that scum believe they are unlikely to have a killer role amongst them... intentionally targeting a role suspected of being a mirror does not seem like a very safe tactic.

In addition to this, it takes out a player who has a lot of suspicion on them, and the wine in leaving them alive is probably equally beneficial to the chance of obtaining a second kill when there is a risk of self-killing via a mirror.

It doesn't kill them if the scum don't have an extra killing ability. Sure, it'd be a risk they'd have to consider, but I think it'd be a pretty small risk. I think it's unlikely that the mods would make a scum team that starts out with two NKs.

This is all kind of moot, since we're lynching vector.

[MasterOfAll]

@BigNose - okay, I assumed that was all there was to it, but figured it was worth asking.

Also, I have no problem with your plan to hammer vector tomorrow (unless someone else speaks up with a compelling reason, of course)

[BigNose]

OK. Time is time enough.

Vote: Vector