Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby telcontar42 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:31 pm UTC

I think the better question to be asking here is what superhero beginnings can you actually believe. I mean these are superheroes, with with crazy science fiction/magical super powers. When you get down to logically and scientifically analyzing them, 99% of them will not make any sense.

Batman's super power is ridiculous wealth combined with grudge against criminals from the death of his parents, so that works. Other than that?
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Jesse » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:18 am UTC

Luthen wrote:
Zohar wrote:
Jesse wrote:Maybe he has the reality bending powers of Scarlet Witch, but some mental block is stopping him from useing it in its entirety.
Maybe, but then someone could say all mutants have the same power, but they use it in different ways.
You could extend it that all non-mutants merely have complete mental blocks as well.


It's unlocked by the X-Gene.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:00 am UTC

telcontar42 wrote:Batman's super power is ridiculous wealth combined with grudge against criminals from the death of his parents, so that works. Other than that?
Iron Man's power is ridiculous wealth combined with a genius mind, alcoholism, and some unobtanium for power. Really, so long as you allow for the unobtanium, the rest is believable.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Luthen » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:46 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Really, so long as you allow for the unobtanium, the rest is believable.
You're telling me The Core is believable?
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:21 pm UTC

No, because the Unobtainum in that movie just allowed them to drill into the Earth. EVERYTHING ELSE about The Core is what makes it Unbelievable.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Maseiken » Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:15 am UTC

So you're saying that if you assume the existance of a material that can be used to drill all the way own to the Core, then you can believe the premise of drilling all the way down to the core.

Or, in a distilled form, if you believe the absurd premise of the film, that will allow you to believe the absurd premise of the film, and nothing more.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby SecondTalon » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:23 pm UTC

I thought the absurd premise of the film was the collapse of the Earth's magnetic field caused by the solidliquid core no longer spinning because of ??? and that this could be remedied by setting off nukes in said core.

Next to that, magic material that withstands pressures in magma is goddamn realistic.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Maseiken » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:31 am UTC

So I actually watched The Core the other night, by an amazing coincidence. I'm pretty much willing to forgive it any of the technobabble since I genuinely enjoyed watching it. As far as Trashy, quasi-scientific thrillers go, it's pretty far up there.

I also watched the remake of The Wicker Man, so by comparison it seemed like a god-damn MASTERPIECE.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Endless Mike » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:43 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:
Luthen wrote:
Zohar wrote:
Jesse wrote:Maybe he has the reality bending powers of Scarlet Witch, but some mental block is stopping him from useing it in its entirety.
Maybe, but then someone could say all mutants have the same power, but they use it in different ways.
You could extend it that all non-mutants merely have complete mental blocks as well.


It's unlocked by the X-Gene.

That doesn't really work. A mental block is keeping everyone but Beak from being a chicken man?
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Jesse » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:00 pm UTC

No, the X gene gives you the ability to alter reality in some way, how it does so depends on your own mentality.

It doesn't have to make sense. Just sound cool.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby pineapplepie » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:59 am UTC

The X-Men are weird, as are Spider-Man's radioactive totem whatever and Green Lantern's magic worthiness. Also, all the Hawk-people.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby danielnairn » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:26 pm UTC

Related is how said superheroes begin their crimefighting:

Superhero discovers powers and thinks they're cool, but doesn't use them responsibly. Suddenly, his father-figure dies, probably at the hands of a criminal, maybe even a super-villian. Hero dedicates his life to finding crime. Optional time period of discovering who he is before starting to fight crime.

Let's see who fits:
Spiderman
Batman
Superman
Any others?
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Zohar » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:46 pm UTC

How is that true for Batman and Superman? How does either of them use their abilities irresponsibly?
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Jesse » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:13 am UTC

Also, Pa Kent is still alive long into Superman's career.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:16 am UTC

He could be talking about Jor-El
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Zohar » Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:57 am UTC

But Jor-El wasn't a parental figure to Superman at all, not when he was young anyway. And he didn't have any powers before Jor-El died.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:19 pm UTC

You're right. I guess danielnarn is simply a charlatan.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby danielnairn » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:57 am UTC

Hmmm...well, I guess I've only seen the Christopher Reeve Superman movie...that's what I was referring to. I always just thought it was a standard comic hero thing to start off with the death of a father figure...Now I feel sheepish

EDIT: So I just had to figure this out for myself. I used Comic Vine to find the most popular comic book superheroes by appearance at this site http://www.comicvine.com/characters/. Then I used wikipedia to research what I didn't already know about the superheroes' origins. Here's all of the superheroes who lost parental figures before becoming superheroes:

Superman: Biological father and mother both die when superman is still young. in addition, silver age and bronze age accounts of superman's origin have his adopted parents dying before he becomes Superman
Batman: Father and Mother killed in front of his eyes at young age
Spider-Man: Uncle Ben murdered, partially at the fault of Spider-Man
Robin: Dick Grayson's parents killed by criminals
The Thing: Older brother killed when he is 8 (Bit of a stretch...)
Human Torch: Lost his mother in car accident, father driven to alcoholism (Again, a stretch)
Invisible Girl: Same as Human Torch
Cyclops: Parents die in a plane crash
Storm: Parents killed by a jet crash
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:07 pm UTC

Sure, but.. let's compare Spiderman and Batman here.

Batman loses parents at age 8 when he was far too young to do anything to prevent the problem and as a result dedicates his life to always preventing the problem via becoming some ubermensch. Were it not for his parent's death, he'd likely just be an intelligent wealthy man. Getting robbed by the Joker every other week.

Spiderman gets awesome powers and fucks around for a bit. He refuses to stop a criminal, and said criminal goes on to kill Uncle Ben. When he discovers that he could have easily stopped the guy and Uncle Ben wouldn't be dead, he becomes a crimefighter.

Batman - There was absolutely nothing he could have done, except die. Also, all *powers* are a direct result of parent's death.
Spiderman - If he wasn't being a lazy asshole, Uncle Ben would still be alive. All powers have jack and shit to do with anyone dying.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Zohar » Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:14 pm UTC

And it's the same for the other people as well. The common link you're finding is "dead parents", not "negligent or irresponsible use of powers".
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Endless Mike » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:29 pm UTC

FTR Pa Kent was killed last year.

Batman's origin is believable enough, it's just that everything following that is not.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby danielnairn » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:52 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:And it's the same for the other people as well. The common link you're finding is "dead parents", not "negligent or irresponsible use of powers".


You're absolutely right. Scratch what I said about irresponsible use of powers.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby smw543 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:39 am UTC

Zohar wrote:And it's the same for the other people as well. The common link you're finding is "dead parents", not "negligent or irresponsible use of powers".

There's also a high correlation between dead parent(s) and being a professional writer. And writers, lazy bastards that we are, tend to base stories on life experiences. danielnairn may have stumbled onto something here (though I'm far too lazy to do any cross-referencing).
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Kewangji » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:47 pm UTC

While it deserves some credibility for being built up so long, and for making us figure it out ourselves instead of just shoving it in our faces (most of the time), I always felt that Refrigerator Woman's background story sucked.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby El Spark » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:33 pm UTC

Who's that? Green Lantern's girlfriend?
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Kewangji » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:20 pm UTC

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby TimelordSimone » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:15 pm UTC

The Flash (Jay Garrick) got superspeed from inhaling water vapour.
Or something.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Zarq » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:58 pm UTC

TimelordSimone wrote:The Flash (Jay Garrick) got superspeed from inhaling water vapour.
Or something.



Hard water vapors. There's a difference!

Also, holy necro, Batman!
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:39 pm UTC

***Thread necro***

The X-gene makes more sense than the idea that there are hundreds of independent mutations possible, any of which would produce a viable organism with special abilities that ignore the laws of physics.

If you posit the existence of a protein which can provide access to some external power source, then the X-gene would simply be the gene that codes for that protein.

The other obvious possibility for the "X-gene" is that it isn't a gene at all - rather that it's a high-level control code in the DNA that changes the interpretation of other bits of the genome.

Of course, either way, you still need to explain why the rest of the structure is there for the energy to be useful - and the standard answer there seems to be deliberate genetic engineering (either by sufficiently advanced ancient aliens, or by the US government)...
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