Halo vs Star Wars

[suicidal pencil]

*clears throat* Excuse me, but Star Wars wins for this reason: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L_phbxEiZs

That said, I'd like to clear up one thing:

...the Spartans (both are elite warriors, so, like ninjas, are better by themselves than in a group...

Really? Read the damn books.

[MadRocketSci2]

My understanding of the extent of human space in HALO was that they had a few beseiged colony worlds and Earth. In the star wars universe, assuming you take the Galactic empires claim of sovereignty over the galaxy seriously (trying to imagine a monoculture spanning 100 billion starsystems, much less one run by humans, strains my suspension of disbelief a bit - they may just be posturing) their numbers would be so massive that they probably wouldn't even notice or deal with a conflict with the HALO human government on the galactic level of control - that is until the HALO guys fire the rings and wipe the galaxy of life.

[McCaber]

I know how to settle this: John-117 going up against Starkiller. Both are controlled by players at the top of their game. First to 10 kills wins.

[CorruptUser]

You would think Star Wars would win with its advanced technology, but that complete lack of even the most basic grasp of tactics by anyone in the entire Star Wars galaxy would make them an easy target.

A few examples;

"Hold your fire"
No one bothers to use the DS tractor beam to captue the MF (or the XWings) during the final battle
No one bothers to check the scanners to see the MF come in at the end, or has eyes
Large ships, not just an XWing, could fire at the exhaust port, so the "single starfighter not a threat" excuse is nonsense
Nearly everything on the DS could be accessed from any control panel
No missiles or flak guns to take out space-ships that have all the speed and manuverability of a F-6
Can't figure out how to make lasers shoot more than 5 km away
Hyperspacing ships; what about hyperspacing torpedoes?
Stormtroopers ONLY equipped with laser-rifle-thingies that can be blocked by a lightsaber; let's see a Jedi block a flamethrower
Protecting the DSv2's shields with maybe 50 ground troups

New episodes:
Opening the blast doors as soon as you poison the Jedi
Using a visible poison gas on the Jedi
Robot armies, but not a single targeting computer among them
Blockade close together, on only one side of a planet
Running a blockade by going through that side of the planet
Forcing the queen to sign the document, or whatever the plot was, as opposed to just forging her signature
All battles fought by large mob that could be taken out with just a single MOAB
Again, the lack of bombers and heavy artillery in the battles
Battle for entire planets fought in just a few kilometers
"Troubled, young Skywalker is. Most reckless person in the Jedi, he is. Leave him alone with Sith Lord, we should"
"These droids have witnessed nearly everything that has occured, with valuable intel on Imperial systems, etc. Wipe their memory"



Yeah, they'd be torn to shreds by the Spartans.

[bobjoesmith]

well if guys read the series, the sun crusher is invincible short of a blackhole. It can even survive the supernova of a sun (which is wut its suposed to do: make suns go supernova)

i mean theres all these talk of rings... and im not 100% sure but...
a. gotta get them in place b4 they explode rite? so why not ambush b4 they are ready to go (cough proton torpedo theorem)
b. wut? at least the death star is realstic: a battle-station the size of a moon could probably generate planet destroying power... but the energy required to destroy a galaxy would be incredible to implausible. for a bunch of guys still on projectile weapons... i dunno how they got this stuff. and i dunno how e=mc^2 allows that much power without defying relativity (considering theres no way that a short of a parsec filled with crap to explode, that any system could be gone)
c. yuzzhan vong chill with jedi now that they got onto zenoma sekot... lets borrow a beeg dovin basal (black hole generating thing) and then suck these things in... yay!

[phlip]

Well, if the other participants in this thread would read the series of Star Wars Expanded Universe books, which many people (though certainly not all) of the people in this thread have chosen to explicitly ignore, they would know that the Sun Crusher is invincible, short of a black hole. It can even survive a supernova (as its designed purpose is to cause stars to go supernova)

I mean, there is all this talk of rings, by which I probably mean the titular Halo installations... and I'm not 100% sure, but...

1. You have got to get them in place before they are activated, right? So why not ambush the installations before they are ready to go? Clearly this is a problem only for Halo, and not for any other universe that employs stationary defensive weapons. (I have a cold, and also want to mention a random weapon as a non sequitur.)
2. I am unable to express my condescention in a reasonable manner. At least the Death Star is realistic: a battle-station the size of a moon could probably generate planet destroying power, as it would merely take approximately twenty thousand times the mass of the Death Star converted entirely to energy, which would have to be produced by a reactor capable of providing at least five times the total power output of the Sun. But the energy required to destroy a galaxy would be incredible to implausible, as apparently I believe that the Halo installations were designed to completely destroy the galaxy much like how the Death Star destroyed a planet - by completely blasting the planet itself to smithereens, rather than simply killing its inhabitants.
   For a bunch of guys still on projectile weapons, who are in no way related to the people who built the halos in the first place... I don't how they got this stuff, as apparently I haven't watches so much as the opening cinematic of the first Halo game, and would thus know that the humans stumbled onto the halos, and didn't build them themselves. And I still think that the halos are designed to completely explode the entire galaxy, and have mentioned a few buzzwords about relativity that I don't really understand, but I think make me sound clever.
3. Prehaps! As a wery old, I can fathom the scene to be with me. Looking always as I ever did. It was not came's. He borrowed mine.

You can thank me later.

But more seriously, I would expect a person participating in a "Halo vs Star Wars" thread on an English-language forum to have more than a vague passing familiarity with (a) Halo, (b) Star Wars, and (c) the English language. So far, you seem 1 for 3.

[bobjoesmith]

rawr im a 150% certain i kno everything (up to the end of the yuzzhan vong invasion where things get kinda blurry and dumb) about star wars

however, english, meh english is a loser's language and since u understood fine, i dunt see wut the problem is
and halo, well, playing mp at a friends house doesnt give u an accurate represetnation of the series

and well remember: the death star did blow up alderaan, BUT there was still an asteroid field left. it would not take the enrgy to blow it to smithreens
take a glass ball: i culd drop it and it would shatter, but to grind it into dust would require FAR mroe energy

also, fyi: using E=mc^2, the energy possible to be released of any given substance is its mass multiplied by the speed of light squared
thus it would only require something like 2* 10^15kg, which would be only slightly more than half the mass of the earth: plausible considering that they could be using ultra-dense metals (unobtanium from pandora wut?) to generate the energy while the earth. the earth only has a density of ~5g/cm^3 which although high for a planet, is not even close to the highest density of a known element, much less some unknown galaxy far far away element.

[Meteorswarm]

rawr im a 150% certain i kno everything (up to the end of the yuzzhan vong invasion where things get kinda blurry and dumb) about star wars

however, english, meh english is a loser's language and since u understood fine, i dunt see wut the problem is
and halo, well, playing mp at a friends house doesnt give u an accurate represetnation of the series

and well remember: the death star did blow up alderaan, BUT there was still an asteroid field left. it would not take the enrgy to blow it to smithreens
take a glass ball: i culd drop it and it would shatter, but to grind it into dust would require FAR mroe energy

also, fyi: using E=mc^2, the energy possible to be released of any given substance is its mass multiplied by the speed of light squared
thus it would only require something like 2* 10^15kg, which would be only slightly more than half the mass of the earth: plausible considering that they could be using ultra-dense metals (unobtanium from pandora wut?) to generate the energy while the earth. the earth only has a density of ~5g/cm^3 which although high for a planet, is not even close to the highest density of a known element, much less some unknown galaxy far far away element.

I imagine that he calculated the gravitiational binding energy of Alderaan, since that's a pretty good measure of the energy you'd need to meaningfully destroy a planet. Anything less and it'll just recollapse and you get a new, molten planet. Wookiepedia doesn't have Alderaan's mass, but since its orbital period, day and diameter are identical to Earth's, let's assume its mass and density distribution is too. Earth's gravitational binding energy if it were a uniform sphere is 2.24*10³²J. This is about a week of the sun's power output, and is equivalent to 2.5*10¹² metric tons of matter. The first death star was 160km in diameter, or 80km in radius with a total volume of 2.1*10⁶ cubic kilometers. If the death star is solid osmium, the densest metal, then it weighs 4.8*10¹⁶ metric tons. Destroying Alderaan/Earth would require an expenditure of 1/20000th its mass if it were solid osmium.

FWIW, the wookiepedia says that the hyperreactor has the power output of "several main sequence stars," since hypermatter throws relativity out the window, but even still, it would have to store up that much power for on the order of days (i.e., if it's seven suns' worth, one day to equal the week of solar output) in order to overcome the GBE.

(also, the English in his last line wasn't terrible - you can interpret it gramatically with the exception of replacing "beeg" with "big" if you recognize that a lot of the words are starwars lore gibberish)

[Allie]

Halo vs Star Wars.... that's a tough one. I'm going to go about this systematically. If you want to skip the boring details just go to the bottom where the conclusion is in plain English.

Star Wars:
Jedi: Followers of the light side of the force, defenders of the peace.
Weapon(s): Lightsaber, energy weapon very effective against almost every other type of weapon. Other energy weapons can deflect it though so this implies that energy shields could deflect a lightsaber.
Armor: Jedi robes, no protection against any weapons.
Special Powers: The force, Mind trickses work best on the weak minded. Physical force powers on the other hand could be devastating. Jedi will also not use force powers like force lightning or chokes.
Other: The Jedi Code restricts Jedi in how they fight. In other words, sith/spartans can fight dirty, jedi can't.

Sith: Followers of the dark side of the force.
Weapon(s): Lightsaber, same as for jedi.
Armor: Robes like those the Jedi wear.
Special Powers: The force, The sith have all sorts of "evil" dark side powers that can be devastating.
Other: There are only ever two Sith in existance ("The rule of two" created by Darth Bane after the destruction of Lord Kaan's Brotherhood of Darkness).

Clones: Clones of the Mandalorian Jango Fett.
Weapon(s): Basically all firearms/explosives. No specialized weapons. Armor is unshielded.
Armor: Clone armor is composed of twenty form-fitting plates of lightweight plastoid-alloy composite. Minor protection against blasters. Clone Commando's have better armor with greater protection.
Special Powers: None known.
Other: Clone commando's are an elite soldier that would be better capable of taking on a specialized enemy.

Droids: Battle droids (B1 model) commanded by the trade federation and the separatist army.
Weapon(s): E-5 Blaster Rifle or SE-14 Blaster Pistol.
Armor: N/A
Special Powers: N/A
Other: Battle droids are controlled by a command ship. When the command ship is destroyed all the droids from that ship will be deactivated.

Ships: The Star Wars universe is filled with ships that can travel in hyperspace. There are many classes of ships everything from the Death Star to personal star fighters. The ships in Star Wars seem to be relatively maneuverable. Weapons are energy and most ships are equipped with shielding of some sort.



Halo:
Spartans: Spartans are elite soldiers of the UNSC. They are trained from a young age to be the best soldiers the UNSC had to offer.
Weapon(s): Spartans are capable of using any of the known weapons including Covenant weaponry.
Armor: MJOLNIR Mark VI Powered Assault Armor. Highly specialized armor equipped with energy shields, physical enhancments, fully EVA capable systems, and an AI interface.
Special Powers: Spartans go through a number of Augmentation Procedures that enhances their strength, reflexes, speed, and other attributes.
Other: The Master Chief is linked with a "smart" AI known as Cortana.

Elites (Sangheili): The elites are the "elite" soldiers of the covenant army. The Sangheili are sided with the humans.
Weapon(s): Typically covenant weapons. All Sangheili are skilled in most weapons and hand-to-hand combat.
Armor: Sangheili warriors wear armor equipped with energy shields. The MJOLNIR armor in fact uses a modified version of the same energy shield technology.
Special Powers: None known.
Other: A Sangheili is a fair match in hand to hand combat with a Spartan II.

Brutes(Jiralhanae): A more primitive warrior. The Jiralhanae are constantly at odds with the Sangheili.
Weapon(s): Primitive energy weapons.
Armor: Does not have energy shielding.
Special Powers: None known.
Other: They are naturally strong and fast and their armor is built to enhance this.

Hunters(Mgalekgolo): Mgalekgolo are large aliens formed entirely of small orange worm like creatures. Mgalekgolo always come in pairs ("bond brothers") and when their bond brother is killed they will go into a frenzied state.
Weapon(s): Assault Canyon integrated into their armor. They also have a large shield, made of the same material as covenant ship hulls, which they use as a melee weapon in close quarters.
Armor: Heavy plating covered with spikes.
Special Powers: Bond with another of their species.
Other: Their stomach and neck are unarmored. Mgalekgolo are much larger than the average human, standing around 13 feet in a non combat situation and crouching at 8 feet during combat.

Jackals(Kig-yar) & Grunts(Unggoy): The Kig-yar along with the Unggoy are the cannon fodder of the covenant army.
Weapon(s): Covenant energy weapons that are not as powerfull as those used by Sangheili or the Jiralhanae.
Armor: Kig-yar carry a energy shield that they hold out in front of them.
Special Powers: None known.
Other: There are kamikaze unggoy who put a lighted plasma grenade on both of their hands and charge they enemy. Unggoy's are known for being cowardly.

Flood: Parasitic life forms that take over a hosts body.
Weapon(s): Varies depending on host.
Armor: Varies depending on host.
Special Powers: Can take over host.
Other: They are so numerous that they simply overwhelm their enemies. The only way to stop them completely is to starve them.

Ships: In the Halo universe the human ships tend to be slow and clumsy. They also do not use energy weapons or are they equipped with shields. Human ships main weapon is their MAC (Magnetic Accelorator Cannon) which fires a large shell at the opponent. Covenant ships are better in combat than their human counterparts. Covenant ships are equipped with energy shields and energy weapons. The shields come down for the energy weapons to fire though. Both human and covenant ships have small fighters to defend against enemy fighters.
It is important to note that the Halo rings can wipe out all life forms and could be used as a last resort.

Conclusion:
In terms of land battle (what I mainly covered in this post) the Star Wars universe has two main forces two offer; the sith and the jedi. The sith and the jedi are fundamentally opposed to each other and would not work together, so we will have to break this into two cases. The Halo universe also has two cases to offer, covenant forces (Sangheili, Jiralhanae, Kig-yar, Unggoy, and Mgalekgolo) and human forces (Spartans, Marines, Sangheili, Mgalekgolo (not in video game but in the universe some join the Sangheili who leave). This gives us a total of four cases.

Case One: SW=Sith, Halo=Human
The Sith have with them an army of battle droids. The marine forces that the humans have to offer have little armor against the battle droids. We will assume that both of these forces have the same numbers. The battle droids weapons could destroy the marines but the battle droids also have little armor, this is an even battle. Toss in the Mgalekgolo and Halo has a win.
Two sith against the spartans, sangheili, and mgalekgolo. There are only two sith. Despite their powers they would be overwhelmed by opponents. I'm assuming that a lightsaber can't block the Mgalekgolo shooting and that Spartans are mind resistant.
The sith have at their hands the death star along with an impressive feat. The human forces would be decimated by the fleet.
Outcome: The halo forces can defeat the sith lords and the army but the star wars fleet can easily destroy the halo fleet. Without its leaders the star wars fleet will be in disaray. This one goes to Halo.

Case Two: SW=Sith, Halo=Covenant
The sith army of droids will take on the grunts and jackals and a few mgalekgolo. Once again the halo forces will defeat the star wars forces.
Only two sith against all the Jiralhanae and a few Mgalekgolo. The sith will win this, Jiralhanae and mgalekgolo are weak minded.
The two fleets will be similarly matched. I'm going to give this one to star wars for the range of fighters it has available and the death star.
Outcome: The sith destroy their opponents on the land and in the sky. This one goes to Star Wars.

Case Three: SW=Jedi, Halo=Human
We have the marines and the clone troopers. Both have light armor. Marines weapons will be less effective against the clones armor. I'm going to call this one a tie. If I consider Mgalekgolo then I have to give this to halo.
Spartans and Sangheili against Jedi. In close combat the Sangheili and Spartans can easily defeat the Jedi, despite their force powers. The number of Jedi is numerous though. I'd say that the spartans have this one.
In space the star wars universe wins yet again.
Outcome: Halo wins in this case.

Case Four: SW=Jedi, Halo=Covenant
Clone Troopers against grunts, jackals, and brutes? Clones win.
The number of Jedi will allow them to take on the and defeat their oponents.
As usual in space the halo ships are no match.
Outcome: Star Wars has all three on this one.

Conclusion:
Star Wars and Halo each have two of the cases under their belt. So lets add up points. Star wars has two points for the cases that it wins, halo has two points for the cases that it wins. Give star wars a point for the "cool" factor and give halo a point for being real. Give halo a point for the flood. One point to the suncrusher. Seven points for the halo rings (Yes, I gave them seven). One for the deathstar. No more points left to give.

So after working on this for over an hour I have finally come to the conclusion. As much as I love Star Wars, Halo takes the cake here. It seems that Halo's deciding factor is the Spartans and the Star Wars deciding factor is their space anything. Perhaps combined the Human and Covenant fleets could defeat one of the Star Wars fleets. Probably not. I'd love to see a fight between John and Yoda though. Big green guy against little green guy lol.


A/N:
This is my first ever post here and it took me two hours or so to create. It is approximately 1800 words long and 4.25 pages. Now before you post the next post pointing out how in Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, lord Kaan's army had it going pretty well and had a super force killy thing, or how in Halo: Ghosts of Onyx we get a whole bunch more Spartans that suck, let me bring one point to your attention. I have read every single Star Wars book from the time before Episode IV. I have read the majority of the books from the time after Episode IV. I have read every single Halo book. I've played all the halo games, multiple times. I've watched each Star Wars movie hundreds of times. I have a set of Mandalorian armor (really I do). And I own Lego Set 7153 (Jango Fett's Slave I). In other words I know my Star Wars and Halo stuff. Fifty points to me for sheer nerdiness and bragging about it .
-Allie

[Qyygle]

Yeah... but if you say the Star Wars fleets would still win every engagement, why in the world, would any of the Star Wars leaders even bother with ground battles then?
They could just do as the Covenant themselves did and conduct orbital bombardment every time they lost a battle and it wouldn't matter how much the Spartans kicked ass...

Not to mention the mass vehicular superiority of the Star Wars ground forces, and their sheer numbers. Really, the best the Covenant/Humans seemed to have in terms of ground armor was the Scarab, and while AT-AT's and AT-TE's would probably be hard pressed to deal with those in my opinion, they are hardly seen anyway, and AT-TE's are seen in just about every major offensive in the Clone Wars. Repulsor Tanks are more maneuverable and similarly armed as Scorpions and many are also shielded (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TX-130_S ... ghter_tank) The Droid Armies might have been horrendously designed, but the amount of tank support fielded by them (AAT's, Spider Walkers, Hailfire Droids, and STAPs) would overwhelm UNSC vehicle brigades... (Warthog... and Scorpion?...)

Stormtroopers/Clonetroopers are armed with a variety of blaster/munition based weapons, which are in my opinion far superior to any Halo weaponry. (Rapid firing rate, almost no need to reload, better firepower, adjustable fire-settings) Clonetrooper armor was incredibly effective against anything less than a SW quality blaster.
"It was almost impossible to kill a stormtrooper with a slugthrower unless the bullet was abnormally large, specifically armor piercing, or if it hit the body glove or visor. Although this armor provided less protection from blaster weapons than Phase I and Phase II armor, it offered superior protection from the elements.[1]" (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper_armor)

Slugthrower... as in gun. That quote was for Stormtrooper armor too at that, and since the Clonetrooper armor was designed more for protection, it would be reasonable to say it would be basically impervious to Marine weapons, unless well aimed. (note. Clonetroopers were also outfitted for EVA operations, but for a limited period of time, probably shorter than Spartans, Stormtrooper armor fared a little better)

As for SW ships being slow and un-maneuverable, a standard TIE Fighter could hit about 1200km/h in atmosphere, which puts it at about 750mph and most likely far faster in the vacuum of space (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TIE/ln_starfighter). So while it may not seem so from the way it was shot (you can hardly blame SW either, having been made almost a few decades ago, they were using hand models for Christ's sake) most of the battles of Yavin and Endor were probably conducted at a thousand or so mph.
The Halo Wiki never states how fast a Longsword or Pelican can fly, but just from visual spotting in game, I'd say they are going nowhere near that speed (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Longsword). A SW fighter is also far smaller than any of it's Halo equivalents, already putting them at an advantage simply from a size vs power ratio. Pelicans are armed with one or two rotary cannon and perhaps missile pods if fitted. A single LAAT has 2 massive missile launchers mounted overhead, 4 more AA missiles on racks alongside, 4 beam turrets, and 3 laser turrets.
SW could literary just win ground campaigns by bombing the UNSC marine corp into dust.

But still, the British Empire rose from their command of the seas, and in an inter-galactic battle, it wouldn't matter how well your armies performed if you can't get them where you want them, without being blown to pieces the moment they came in-system by a Star-Destroyer and it's TIE fighters... having the Death Star stop by seems to just be rubbing it in their faces by now.

[Headshrinker]

Neither army would be any match for the droid army. pin point shooting near instant reactions. and the speed they could be turned out at would be way to fast. not to mention those jedi like droids in the third film. to be honest, the droid army could wipe out the galactic empire, republic, UNSC, flood and covenent put together.

[Robert'); DROP TABLE *;]

...Except for any civilization that's invented radio jamming.

[hotaru]

...Except for any civilization that's invented radio jamming.

seriouosly, these things were designed to be used in battle and they didn't even have any kind of backup control system? not even rudimentary programming that would allow the droids to still function (perhaps in a slightly less effective way, but better than just stopping completely) if something happened to the control ship? anakin built a better droid out of garbage while he was a slave on tatooine... so obviously the technology required was widely available and not expensive. whoever designed that system was a complete idiot.

[Headshrinker]

I always (since i was old enough) assumed they would be controled via Ghost beam(http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-amp-space/article/2009-10/neutrinos-may-someday-provide-high-speed-submarine-communication) Otherwise they could only dominate half a planet with one ship before having to build relays which would be to dangerous.
As for the backup system, it may be to unadaptive or even able to be manipulated. But yes there is a obvious advantage of having one, im sure they had their reasons for excluding it, cost for example.

[Core Commander E-178]

BlackSails

Its impossible to tell. Star Wars doesnt have relativity, and the UNSC main guns fire relativistic slugs.

Assuming that covenant energy weapons are as effective on SW shields as they are against their own shields, a combined Covenant-UNSC force (like the elites and the humans) might be able to achieve space superiority.

Then again, you could just fire relativistic spartans at the star destoyers and kill them scarab style.

"Star Wars doesnt have relativity"? Please give proof of these given last I checked Effects didn't happen before Cause in the Star Wars universe and IIRC they have shields put in place on Hyperdrives to keep them form being turned into time machines.

Psychopomp

The flood are not an issue. SW ships have kinetic and energy shields that would prevent any boarding action long enough for their incomprehensibly superior shipborne firepower to completely destroy every ship in range. And considering a Halo can be destroyed by a limited nuclear reaction like the PoA reactor going into overload, why are we acting like the SW ships can't simply destroy the Halos with their nuke dwarfing weapons?

Question: Have you done the calculations on the detonation of the PoA's fusion reactors? I am going to assume teh anwser is no given that calculations based off the size of the fireball put it at 100+ Teratons of TNT and only left a five kilometer crater in the supe dense ring material. SW ships can take them out, but it isn't going to be with their lighter guns.

BlackMesa

you can see them coming. It is very difficult to sneak up on a jedi. And sniping would be difficult because of the rediculous reflexes. Clones were able to get very close and suprise them with LASER weapons at close range. That is difficult to block, but a bullet might be different

*Sigh* Their only called lasers, they are clearly not real lasers given they are vastly sub-c (easily slower than modern bullets in most cases for a hand held blaster rifle) and can be seen easily no matter what. They are clearly just a plasma weapon like that used by the Covenant which Spartans are known to dodge. Enough Marines would be able to take down Jedi faster than the Clones due to how much faster UNSC projectiles move.

BlackSails

Courscant has a shield over the entire planet. The flood will just go splat against it.

The nature of Slipspace would allow the Flood to easily bypass any planetary shield system.

Znath

It's an odd question... who would win or who's better... but I think either way the answer is Star Wars.

The technology is so vastly far apart it's not even comparable.

Halo, despite it's place setting, has 21st century weaponry. Cased bullets, "power armor" from 2030. Even with the alien weapons and everything like that, the Empire alone has better stuff backing it.

I don't know how you'd make it a "fair fight" or anything like that though. Since the whole 'star wars universe' and all that every single character on the show is almost from their own planet of some elaborately designed species with unique technology.

But if you take it down to a planet vs planet scale. Still Star Wars would win. Even the cruddy technology everyone has like plasma blasters and such, is far beyond the halo tech. Even like... Earth vs Tatooine would be a tough fight, just cause everyone and their dog (almost literally) has a space ship, lasers,blasters you name it... It's too big a gap in technology and scale to really easily compare.

*Sigh* Just because they use a laser/plasma weapon means nothing if their effects are similar to an otherwise "lower tech" weapon. Which they are. UNSC/Covenant weapons are easily on par with SW tech on average.

Xbehave

earth = projectile based weapons, even tatooine has laser based tech. Don't know how this got to page3.

Yes, because all that laser tech helped them SO much against three feet tall Ewoks.

The fact they use lasers/plasma means nothing if it is not vastly better than the enemies technology. Which on the ground it is not.

The Halos are pretty lame compared to imperial fleets, they can wipe out life on one planet at a time, big woop. The DeathStar destory's the planet!

The effective blast range of a single Halo is 25,000 light years and it is FTL as seen in the horrible Halo Legends series.

Drackula2000

You all forget that Starwars universe has TRILLIONS of people and Billions of people in there armies. Not only that but they have the Death Star, Centerpoint Station. and many other doomsday weapons. Also AFAIK USNC still can't accurately slipsteam makin coordinated attacks difficult. Starwars wins.

Centerpoint is not turn on for over 10+ years after the Battle of Endor as I recall, so why bring a weapon they can't use up? Also why would the Galactic Republic be using super weapons like the Death Star and such given their not evil like the Empire?

Venator

Covenant assets are unknown, although it is speculated that they posses only the territory within the Orion arm of the Milky Way galaxy. Their largest known structure is High Charity, which is easily dwarfed by the second and third Death Star and other known artificial planetoids.

The Covenant do indeed control most of the Orion Arm of the Milky Way. And High Charity was built thousands of years ago at the very end of a drawn out war between the Prophets and Elites that formed the Covenant when they were at a fraction of their current size.

Given that the humans had over 800 Inner Colonies in 2490 it is safe to say the Covenant Empire has at least 5000-10,000 systems having been a spacefaring power for several thousand years.

The fastest known Covenant vessel traveled at 38 light years per hour, meaning it would take decades for them to cross their galaxy.

No, it would only take over a month for them to cross the galaxy at that speed, such as in Halo 2 when the Prophet's Assault Carrier travels at least 11,000 light years in only 11 days.

Covenant Energy weapons are effective at glassing planets over the course of multiple hours, placing their beam weapons within the high megaton range.

Incorrect, here is the quote in question to clear this up:

Page Eight of Halo: The Fall of Reach

Three dozen Covenant ships--big ones, destoyers and
cruisers--winked into view in the system. Their lateral lines
brightened with plasma--then discharged and rained fire
down upon Jericho VII.
The Chief watch for an hour and didn't move a muscle.
The planet's lakes, rivers, and oceans vaporized. By to-
morrow, the atmopshere would boil away, too. Fields and
forests were glassy smooth and glowing red-hot in patches.
Where there had been paradise, only hell remained.

This gives us a low end output for Covenant warships at 7.7 Teratons per second for each ship if I didn't mess anything up.

The covenant use plasma torpedoes, which according to damage estimates seen from the games, are in the high kiloton levels in terms of damage produced.

And we see this where? Against targets where they are holding back because of Forerunner relics, etc.?

Covenant shields are far weaker, being only strong enough to withstand 2 or 3 MAC shells rated at around 50 kilotons each. The standard ship-mounted MAC fires a 600-ton ferric-tungsten projectile with a depleted uranium core at 960,000 km/h (this is circa 2552). The large amount of energy needed to fire the weapon (the muzzle energy is 270 terajoules (E=.5mv^2), to be precise) is particularly onerous on a warship, and the extended recharge time is a significant factor in combat against Covenant warships as multiple MAC rounds are required to penetrate Covenant shields. The standard MAC is sufficient to destroy any human vessel or severely damage an unshielded Covenant vessel.

This information is outdated as of the book the Halo Encyclopedia which tells us that a ship based MAC fires a 600 ton round at 40% speed of light, which comes out to 1.17 Teratons of TNT per shot.

The covenant are limited to a process known as glassing, in which the silicates in the crust are melted. This process is inferior to the Base Delta Zero (Which melts the entire crust) and requires multiple ships working over the course of several hours (In one case it took twenty-four Destroyers and Cruisers twelve hours to glass a Planet). They have no means of destroying a planet beyond superficial surface damage.

Completely incorrect as I have shown. Also please provide the evidence of them completely melting the crust.

Imperial Turbolasers have recorded maximum ranges of over ten light minutes (179,875,475 kilometers), with distances of over 100,000 kilometers being considered point blank range by some.

1. Please provide the source.

2. Complete BS for ship to ship combat ranges being 10 light minutes unless you have proof of FTL Turbolasers. I believe it is outright stated that this is against large stationary only. Oh, and in RoTJ point blank range was consider a dozen or less kilometers as I recall.

3. Also I believe this is overruled by the higher canon The Clone Wars episode “Malevolence” when they are stated to enter weapons range no more than a couple dozen kilometers from the CIS super ship which is fleeing in a straight line… and they miss a lot.

Thought it has been some time since I watch the episode so anyone that has seen it more recently feel free to correct me.

Maximum Covenant ranges are unknown, but very rarely have they been seen firing beyond the 100,000 kilometer mark, the Energy projector beam has an effective range of over 50,000 kilometers.

Actually, it is the Energy Projector rated at 100,000 kilometers. And Plasma Torpedoes have been recorded as being able to chase down targets at multi-light second ranges (though this appears to be rare).

What do the Covenant have? Anti-Matter bombs make excellent terror devices, but they are incapable of achieving the damage presented by even low-yield Imperial weapons

So a multi-metric ton antimatter bomb (most likely that is what we see in Halo 2) is weaker than even low-yield Imperial weapons? No.

As you can see from the above, the Covenant are vastly dwarfed by the Empire in almost every respect. It is nonsensical to believe for even one second that the Covenant would be a stain on Imperial boots, let alone capable of defeating them in pitched inter-galactic warfare.

Unless I am mistaken on SW weapons range the Covenant hold enough of an edge that their vast multi-hundred ship fleets could manage to wear down GR/Imp fleets given time.

What you have is a small inter-stellar Empire of a few thousand vessels going against a Galactic Empire of several million warships using technology that is vastly inferior to that of the Empire. The speed at which the Empire can field their fleets would leave the Covenant spinning, the technological disparity is so great that the Empire won't need superior numbers to win as a single Star Destroyer is easily worth a dozen or more Assault Carriers.

The Covenant consider the lost of 500 ships and 30 kilometer in diameter command station a "meh, why are you telling me this?" event. I'd say it is far mroe than a few thousand vessels. Also their hardly vastly inferior. Also despite the speed of Hyperdrive it will take months or years to scout out all of Covenant space and even then they will never be able to truly destroy the Covenant due to the fact that most of their population lives on large mobile stations (Halo: Contact Harvest). Slipspace also gives the Covenant an edge in that they could bypass planetary shields, make tactical behind Star Destroyers where they have no weapons, and could not been seen by Imperial sensors due the how Slipspace works.

As I said unless I am mistaken on SW weapons range the Covenant will be far greater pain in the neck than you make them out to be.

This is after all an Empire that can casually throw around petatons of damage with ease, to think that Covenant could hope to resist for even a week against such a force is foolish. Although if you wish to debate the matter, I'll be here for some time.

Given the Covenant appear to have the numbers in ships and firepower and weapons range, I'm game.

According to Halo: First Strike the Covenant use a series of fusion based 512 terawatt generators to power their battle station (Which is known as the Unyielding Hierophant) shields, this is impressive by any standard, especially as humans of that era are still experimenting with primitive fission reactors

As of the Halo Encyclopedia book the Covenant have been recton to using antimatter in their reactors (also note that the Unyielding Hierophant was stated to have shields that could take the collision of a small moon). Also where do you get the informatio that the UNSC still uses fission reactors? The UNSC has been using fusion since the first game.

Star Destroyers were able to survive half an hour of ship to ship battle with Mon Calamari battlecruisers in the Battle of Endor before they started to lose shielding. If we assume roughly one Star Destroyer per Mon Calamari cruiser and ignore fighters (In spite of the fact that they were carrying thermonuclear weapons), we can estimate that a Star Destroyer can survive many thousands of shots before shield failure. In the opening scene of ANH a Star Destroyer is seen firing roughly 25 shots in 5 seconds, for a time-averaged refire rate of 5 shots per second. This indicates that the shields of an Imperial Star Destroyer can sustain literally petatons of damage before failing entirely.

Which is good and all, but how many of these shots hit given the less than spectacular accuracy of their weapons in most scenes we see?

As I said unless I'm mistaken on SW weapons range the Covenant is going to be a major problem.

[Robert'); DROP TABLE *;]

The effective blast range of a single Halo is 25,000 light years and it is FTL as seen in the horrible Halo Legends series.

So you're sending a wave of destruction 25,000 years back in time? Because, as far as I know, the Halos weren't 25,000 years old when they were fired.

[Core Commander E-178]

The effective blast range of a single Halo is 25,000 light years and it is FTL as seen in the horrible Halo Legends series.

So you're sending a wave of destruction 25,000 years back in time? Because, as far as I know, the Halos weren't 25,000 years old when they were fired.

If you're going to play that card every s.f faction everywhere has time travel because they have FTL drives. This is s.f, the laws of physics as we know them are not always the same in every form. Not only that, but if the Halo Effect had been STL the Flood would have been able to easily out run it given Forerunner ships can cross at least 11,000 light years in 5 days.

[Qyygle]

You can't really judge Star Wars weapon accuracy on scenes from the Clone Wars Cartoons... That'd be as if we started using info for Halo based on the comics my little brother draws in 2nd grade art class. It's utter BS
Besides, with the rate of fire they're shooting at anyway, the amount of hits would still be incredibly high anyway.
Just because the Covenant like to live in movable space platforms, doesn't give them an advantage. A few Interdictor Cruisers would put an end to that problem pretty fast.
'Enough' marines would put an end to any problem, depending on your definition of 'enough'. Jedi usually travel as generals of entire clone armies though, so 'enough' might start adding up to a few thousand.
For the Flood to jump in under a planetary shield would probably cause horrendous destruction on the ground anyway, and would probably end with them going splat against the planet itself...
Yes, UNSC and Covenant infantry weapons might stand a chance against Star Wars opponents, there's only so much firepower you really need to kill a man (a rock... an arrow... a nuke, they'd all do the same thing) but when it comes to armor and shielding, SW would have a terribly unfair advantage. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Armor you might want to look at some of these...
I still don't get it... won't using freakin Halos kill EVERYONE???
In RoTJ, the Rebels were horrendously outnumbered, and outgunned, and about 4/5th of the Imperial Fleet was not even in the action. Lando ordered the point-blank attack to draw the Imperials into a close range battle where they would have to worry about shooting their own ships, and that required them literally to be able to see the Imperials through the other ships ports...
Plasma Torpedoes need several seconds to recharge... seconds during which a Star Destroyer would be raining hell and chaos on anything around it.
The SW galaxy isn't reliant simply on capital ships for combat. In fact, before the Empire, the Republic used Starfighter squads as mainstays in its fleet, with the massive Venator Cruisers, though almost as powerful as the later Star Destroyer, designed mainly as a carrier. The Rebel Alliance later expanded on this, with almost half it's fleet at Endor composed of starfighters.

[Babam]

You can't really judge Star Wars weapon accuracy on scenes from the Clone Wars Cartoons... That'd be as if we started using info for Halo based on the comics my little brother draws in 2nd grade art class. It's utter BS

Yes I can, because it has been established as canon. Therefore it is true. Your little brother is not, and the comparison is simply grasping at loose straws.

[Core Commander E-178]

You can't really judge Star Wars weapon accuracy on scenes from the Clone Wars Cartoons... That'd be as if we started using info for Halo based on the comics my little brother draws in 2nd grade art class. It's utter BS

Flawed analogy. Star Wars: The Clone Wars is T canon (below the movies but above the C canon books and games) and can only be overruled by G canon or one of the people that over sees Star Wars canon. Your little borther's comics on the other hand are not sanction canon from Bungie, therefore non-canon for the prime Halo universe.

If you can point me to a higher canon showing that proves that SW:TCW is incorrect I will gladly concede the point.

Besides, with the rate of fire they're shooting at anyway, the amount of hits would still be incredibly high anyway.

True, if they get within range the higher amount of firepower and faster RoF would quickly take out entire Covenant fleets. But given standard Halo combat speeds and engagement ranges are far above standard Star Wars combat speeds and weapons ranges that is unlikely.

Just because the Covenant like to live in movable space platforms, doesn't give them an advantage. A few Interdictor Cruisers would put an end to that problem pretty fast.

Hyperspace=/=Slipspace. Halo: The Fall of Reach, what is thought to be a large asteroid in Slipspace would fly through a UNSC colony world is consider a non-threat due to the fact in Slipspace it would harmlessly pass through the planet without doing any damage.

'Enough' marines would put an end to any problem, depending on your definition of 'enough'. Jedi usually travel as generals of entire clone armies though, so 'enough' might start adding up to a few thousand.

True, but just Jedi vs. marines your looking at no more than several dozen marines to take down the Jedi.

For the Flood to jump in under a planetary shield would probably cause horrendous destruction on the ground anyway, and would probably end with them going splat against the planet itself...

Didn’t stop them and the already damaged ship surviving in Halo 3.

Yes, UNSC and Covenant infantry weapons might stand a chance against Star Wars opponents, there's only so much firepower you really need to kill a man (a rock... an arrow... a nuke, they'd all do the same thing) but when it comes to armor and shielding, SW would have a terribly unfair advantage. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Armor you might want to look at some of these...

I’ll look over it later, but none of the standard armor they have I can think is really going to do much to stop Covenant Plasma weapons given their easily on par with higher end blaster showings (H:TCP Keyes blows a rebel's leg off which also melts nearby concrete, and sets his own pants on fire just from being so close).

I still don't get it... won't using freakin Halos kill EVERYONE???

1. I never claimed they would use them, just pointing out that what was said was incorrect and the Halo rings each have a range of 25,000 light years and knock out all life above a certain biomass in second/minutes.

2. If they did use them they could hide in one of the Shield Worlds or the Ark.

In RoTJ, the Rebels were horrendously outnumbered, and outgunned, and about 4/5th of the Imperial Fleet was not even in the action. Lando ordered the point-blank attack to draw the Imperials into a close range battle where they would have to worry about shooting their own ships, and that required them literally to be able to see the Imperials through the other ships ports...

I was pointing out that 100,000 kilometers was not consider point blank range by Star Wars. That would be a SF power like the Culture.

Plasma Torpedoes need several seconds to recharge... seconds during which a Star Destroyer would be raining hell and chaos on anything around it.

If it can get within weapons range. I concede that IF it gets within weapons range it would tear apart any UNSC or Covenant fleet in no more than a few minutes.

The SW galaxy isn't reliant simply on capital ships for combat. In fact, before the Empire, the Republic used Starfighter squads as mainstays in its fleet, with the massive Venator Cruisers, though almost as powerful as the later Star Destroyer, designed mainly as a carrier. The Rebel Alliance later expanded on this, with almost half it's fleet at Endor composed of starfighters.

Fighters that are vastly slower than a Covenant capital ship (low triple digit G acceleration Vs low end of 6400 Gs for a damage UNSC Frigate with a more massive Covenant ship tacked on. Covenant ships are faster).

As far as I can see higher canon has overruled C-canon EU weapons range, giving the Covenant or UNSC a massive advantage in combat. The UNSC is stomped simply because it is too small (couple thousand colonies at the most). The Covenant on the other hand are large enough that they may just stand a chance.

[Qyygle]

Fighters that are vastly slower than a Covenant capital ship (low triple digit G acceleration Vs low end of 6400 Gs for a damage UNSC Frigate with a more massive Covenant ship tacked on. Covenant ships are faster).

Acceleration and speed are very different things. Acceleration is how fast a ship would reach its top speed, and a capitol ship having a greater acceleration would make sense, as it would have much larger engines compared to a starfighter, but even a standard TIE fighter had an acceleration of 4100G's, which is pretty close already.

Even with that, according to the FOR, it took an hour for a UNSC Frigate to cross 80,000,000Km to a target.
80,000,000km in an hour from a stop equals: 12km/s^2 or 1259G's of acceleration huh, that's funny why is this number so small now? Must have been a pretty confusing damage report if engine speed suddenly increased

Then there's the whole thing about Halo ranges again. If we really were to believe that the Covenant can engage at ranges of several lightseconds, then why in the world, in Halo 2, 3 and all the others were we see space battles, would there be scenes of Covenant ships? Shouldn't we just see giant black spaces and sudden explosions as the fast as light plasma rounds blow the UNSC to pieces? I'm not even going to go into how silly a MAC cannon shooting a 600 ton slug at 50% the speed of light from a 6,000 ton frigate is...(there's something funny about this number 6,000... as in it's absurdly small... wouldn't the frigate be spun like a whirly toy every time it shot? Especially since the MAC isn't center mounted)

If it can get within weapons range. I concede that IF it gets within weapons range it would tear apart any UNSC or Covenant fleet in no more than a few minutes.

UNSC ships can avoid Plasma torpedoes if they use evasive maneuvers right before impact, meaning that if the rounds traveled at lightspeeds humans in the future have :
1. developed super senses, which allow them to take action in the span of picoseconds
(highly in question as Marines seem to have trouble just avoiding walls when I let them drive warthogs...)
2. The Covenant decide to tone down their weapons just for the fun of it every battle
(It would be funny if they did)
3. This speed (and in comparison, range) is ridiculous

Alright, lets take a look now, at how many shots a Covenant Cruiser can put out out in a minute

Although the Reverence-class boasted two Energy Projectors [1] and seven Plasma Torpedo tubes [1], it could only fire one Energy Projector at a time, typically only the forward-mounted one and two Plasma Torpedoes simultaneously due to energy constraints.
Reverence-class Cruisers are 3 kilometers long; about the length of the UNSC Carrier.

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Reverence-class_Cruiser
This, one of their larger ships, little over 2 times as long as an ISD, is used a a command ship in smaller fleets. And it can get an amazing 3 shots off at once.

At this rate of fire, with the possibility of dodging the plasma a plausible option, and the added advantage of shields compared to UNSC ships, I'm pretty sure an SD would be able to get in range.

True, but just Jedi vs. marines your looking at no more than several dozen marines to take down the Jedi.

Well of course with an average Jedi. Same with a covenant specforce, or commander, but then they never travel alone usually either eh? I'm not too sure what would happen if the poor leatherbacks met Darth Maul or Vader though

Although, after thinking about the range, speed, and firing rate of Star Wars weapons, I'm thinking that it's possible SW targeting computers are configured to fire rapidly in a cone of space, to increase the effective combat range of a ship while also increasing the chances of a hit if a target is maneuvering.
If a ship is capable of evasive maneuvers (as seen with the UNSC), firing weapons at long range will make the chances of a hit really small, especially in space, where there are 3 dimensions to go in and taking the fact that turbolasers travel in straight lines. I remember reading The Last Command and in one section where the Alliance was hunting for cloaked asteroids around Corusuant, General Riekin orders a dreadnaught to open fire in a predetermined cone in one sector to try and hit one.
Maybe all the 'misses' we see in some of the movies are part of a tactic like this to leave the enemy literally nowhere to dodge... The Covenant Plasma tracks so they don't have that problem (mostly... kinda), and the MAC guns... well, I've already said my bit on MAC guns, so I assume this might be the SW answer to this problem.
idk, just spitting ideas

[LolTheForce]

I dare say we all however can agree that the Republic easily could out match the UNSC simply by applying the "Zergling Rush" tactic. Mobilizing several hundred thousand war ships, each one good for a small UNSC fleet to rush Earth and simply vaporize it would kind of behed the UNSC.

However, I do not know enough about the Halo universe to comment on how well equipped the Convenant are. Still, I do doubt they could hold up against an entire galaxy worth of armies.

One thing to consider: If we assume the Republic is still utilizing Kamino to get fresh clones, the Covenant (or UNSC for that matter) wouldn't know about that. The Republic won't be so daft as to say "Ohai kind Mr. Alien sir, please go to these coordinates, that's where we get our soldiers!"

Republic ships could also be instructed to self destruct before letting enemies get intel of such nature. So combine the ship building capabilities of Kuat and Corellia (only counting the two biggest) with an infinite supply of personel from Kamino and you have an army second to very few.

Also, about Spartans and Jedi meeting head-on in combat, they probably wouldn't. In a skirmish, as a Jedi you don't run around the battlefield, waving your lightsaber and hoping not to get disintegrated by an artillery round. They are generals in the GAR. Not cannon fodder.

And finally as a comment to everyone going on about how a Spartan is superior to Jedi training wise, DO NOT FORGET ABOUT THE REPUBLIC COMMANDOS.
These too are trained constantly since birth, starting training with live fire rounds from the age of four years. If you fail even once in your training from there you die. Period. "Defect" commandos (e.g. not getting perfect scores in sniper training) are executed. They might not have the superhuman strength of a spartan, but they ARE genetically enhanced to gain greater strength and reflexes. Combine that with the fact that they also have the Katarn armour that while perhaps not being on par with MJOLNIR armour at least gives it a run for it's money. They also outnumber the Spartans real good.

[Headshrinker]

How good are you guys at halo? I think I would find thirty grunts a tough fight, let alone thirty marines.
Not to mention marines are guys who were conscripted into the forces.
Clone troopers are GM soldiers who have spent their entire lives training.
Spartans are GM soldiers who have spent their entire lives training.
Spartans use a rapid-fire projectile weapon.
Clones use a laser rifle that has made projectile weapons obsolete.
In the halo there was one Spartan 2.
In the films there were millions of clones.
UNSC are backed by scorpions.
Clones are backed by AT-TE easily superior in armour and firepower but lets just say their like for like.
Marines use warthogs as transport (it’s a car with a gun on it lol)
Clones use speeder bikes (not the most protective but faster and the arms better than the hog).
UNSC deploy using unarmed pelicans.
Republic deploy using heavily armed gunships.
Spartans do have one up, they have an energy shield around their armour.
Only clone commandos have energy shields.
Please explain to me how:
a) Spartans can come in enough numbers to make a difference?
b) A Spartan can face down a unit of clones?
c) Marines can match clones even 10-1?
d) UNSC have enough power to hold more than a couple of systems at once?
e) And the equipment and support can even compare?

So really the question is can Spartans face down even one clone? and then will the clones need to send a squad?

As for halo’s options.
The flood could destroy both universes. But this would require the flood to make a huge head start before they became under attack.

[Babam]

Pelicans are not unarmed, the have a chin gun along with forward missile pods, if they aren't carrying a warthog or similar transport, they will have a rear mounted chaingun.

[Headshrinker]

okay i take that back, but my point still stands, clones are comparable to spartans.

[Lime]

I brought this up a while ago in band class (lololololol)

The thing I find the SW people always depend on is the dominance of Force powers. Keep in mind, only the most powerful Jedi would be able to throw Spartans around with their minds, and none of them would be able to stop bullets. Think about it, if they managed to hit a bullet with their lightsaber, they'd just have some MOLTEN lead speeding towards them instead.

Also, the Elite fleet is still definitely large enough to face off against the Empire. Considering the Covanent seem to be on the same scale as them, they seem to have similar numbers. Add that an Elite commando would probably be a match for a Jedi, I think the Elites alone could probably take the Star Wars universe.

As for Clones v Spartans, I seem to recall Clones having difficulty fighting mere droids. A single Spartan can single-handedly kill thousands of Covanent soldiers. And marines are NOT conscripted. In ODST, you see recruitment stations all over New Mombasa.

[Meteorswarm]

The thing I find the SW people always depend on is the dominance of Force powers. Keep in mind, only the most powerful Jedi would be able to throw Spartans around with their minds, and none of them would be able to stop bullets. Think about it, if they managed to hit a bullet with their lightsaber, they'd just have some MOLTEN lead speeding towards them instead.

Your other points aside, I think lightsabers have enough power to vaporize the bullets, not just melt them. See: carving through blast door. There isn't a puddle of molten metal at the bottom.

[Lime]

Regardless, the vaporised bullets would not disappear. Superheated lead vapours would linger in the air rather than being deflected like blaster bolts. Pretty soon the heat would be too intense for a Jedi to concentrate, even if they were managing to block the bullets, which travel much faster than the projectiles they usually dodge.

[danmil]

just one thing

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away

The jedi would have a long time to get more technology because starwars take place in the past and Halo in the future

[Headshrinker]

I brought this up a while ago in band class (lololololol)

The thing I find the SW people always depend on is the dominance of Force powers. Keep in mind, only the most powerful Jedi would be able to throw Spartans around with their minds, and none of them would be able to stop bullets. Think about it, if they managed to hit a bullet with their lightsaber, they'd just have some MOLTEN lead speeding towards them instead.

okay first of all, i think we can assume that a lead bullet will be deflected by a lightsabre because otherwise any bounty hunter sith or droid who might mix with jedi would simply carry a 9mm and be done with it. this has not happned.

secondly, Luke before he finished his training could partly lift a x-wing out of the swamp on dagobah. i can't find the weight or the gravity but its probably enough to knock a spartan over or just unload his gun. failing this throwing dirt over the spartans visor will blind him and make him a sitting bantha.

[Robert'); DROP TABLE *;]

Or just exploit the fact that the Force is essentially an inertialess drive and crash something heavy into the planet of his choice.

[Lime]

I brought this up a while ago in band class (lololololol)

The thing I find the SW people always depend on is the dominance of Force powers. Keep in mind, only the most powerful Jedi would be able to throw Spartans around with their minds, and none of them would be able to stop bullets. Think about it, if they managed to hit a bullet with their lightsaber, they'd just have some MOLTEN lead speeding towards them instead.

okay first of all, i think we can assume that a lead bullet will be deflected by a lightsabre because otherwise any bounty hunter sith or droid who might mix with jedi would simply carry a 9mm and be done with it. this has not happned.

secondly, Luke before he finished his training could partly lift a x-wing out of the swamp on dagobah. i can't find the weight or the gravity but its probably enough to knock a spartan over or just unload his gun. failing this throwing dirt over the spartans visor will blind him and make him a sitting bantha.

"Other electromagnetic energy fields and coherent energy are also repelled by lightsabers' arcs. "
This is why blaster bolts are deflected. On the other hand, bullets are not energy. Also, you fail to realise the immense speed of such projectiles.

When using the Force to move things, "size matters not." What matters is the concentration of the Jedi using the force. Yoda was able to lift the X-Wing with ease, because he was a skilled Jedi. Luke was not, because he was a beginner. The ability to use the force to the extent of Yoda would only come with the experience of other masters, such as Obi-Wan, Windu, ect. Furthermore, it becomes exponentially more difficult to use your force powers like that in the heat of battle, hence why most Jedi use their lightsabers, or simple pushes.

[Meteorswarm]

"Other electromagnetic energy fields and coherent energy are also repelled by lightsabers' arcs. "
This is why blaster bolts are deflected. On the other hand, bullets are not energy. Also, you fail to realise the immense speed of such projectiles.

I still fail to see how a cloud of rapidly-dissipating gas is going to do anybody much harm.

[danmil]

"Other electromagnetic energy fields and coherent energy are also repelled by lightsabers' arcs. "
This is why blaster bolts are deflected. On the other hand, bullets are not energy. Also, you fail to realise the immense speed of such projectiles.

I still fail to see how a cloud of rapidly-dissipating gas is going to do anybody much harm.

hot stuff hurts, also, lead poisoning, coming from lead gas, get all of the jedi to loose their brain function, so then the Spartans would win

[Lime]

"Other electromagnetic energy fields and coherent energy are also repelled by lightsabers' arcs. "
This is why blaster bolts are deflected. On the other hand, bullets are not energy. Also, you fail to realise the immense speed of such projectiles.

I still fail to see how a cloud of rapidly-dissipating gas is going to do anybody much harm.

Well, seeing as how the bullets would still be heading towards the Jedi in question, think that they'd suffer from bad steam burns. A tiny amount of steam about 100 degrees Celsius has caused pretty bad burns to me before, so I would assume that several instances of steam in the neighbourhood of a few hundred-thousand (not sure of a lightsaber's temperature) degrees would cause terrible burns.

[Meteorswarm]

Well, seeing as how the bullets would still be heading towards the Jedi in question, think that they'd suffer from bad steam burns. A tiny amount of steam about 100 degrees Celsius has caused pretty bad burns to me before, so I would assume that several instances of steam in the neighbourhood of a few hundred-thousand (not sure of a lightsaber's temperature) degrees would cause terrible burns.

Where is the steam coming from? They're not shooting water bullets. Besides, the lead gas would lose lots of velocity in the few feet between the blade and the wielder, cool down and condense.

Also, don't they deflect plasma? Anything hot enough to vaporize a bullet that fast is probably also hot enough to turn it into plasma, and then deflect it (since it's plasma), so presumably bullets are a non-issue, given lots of assumptions about the wielder.

That said, I'm not arguing either way in the global argument - I think that a lightsaber could negate a bullet, but that doesn't mean that a Jedi could face off against a machine gun and win.

[Headshrinker]

You miss my point, If a projectile weapon can kill a Jedi then why do people not use them?

[phlip]

Well, I think it's reasonable to assume that projectile weaponry, if they were even invented in that universe (which, really, they probably were) would probably be "old tech" whereas the blasters would be "new tech". And, by the looks of it, very well-established new tech.

If the blasters are greatly superior to projectile weapons in all non-Jedi-related situations (which seems clear), and battles with Jedi are rare and unexpected (also seems likely... we don't see many people other than the Sith being unsurprised by the Jedis' appearance... and the Sith seem to prefer their lightsabers anyway)... then few people would actually want to buy projectile weapons. So the market for them would shrink to just being collectables. Which would make it much harder to get your hands on one than an everyday blaster.

Just imagine if you had a character in a modern-day story that was, due to various plot elements, weak to Civil-War-era muskets. Even though they were pretty much immune to modern-day guns. Would the villains in the story even find out? And if they did, would they be able to get and maintain a musket arsenal (which they'd have to get from collectors, reenactors, replica makers... at significant expense, both money and time) even when most of the operations they do would be much better served by modern guns, and they're not even sure that your main character will even show up?

[BlackSails]

Jedi could also dodge bullets pretty easily Id imagine, since they have both super speed and mild precognition.

[Lime]

Well, seeing as how the bullets would still be heading towards the Jedi in question, think that they'd suffer from bad steam burns. A tiny amount of steam about 100 degrees Celsius has caused pretty bad burns to me before, so I would assume that several instances of steam in the neighbourhood of a few hundred-thousand (not sure of a lightsaber's temperature) degrees would cause terrible burns.

Where is the steam coming from? They're not shooting water bullets. Besides, the lead gas would lose lots of velocity in the few feet between the blade and the wielder, cool down and condense.

Also, don't they deflect plasma? Anything hot enough to vaporize a bullet that fast is probably also hot enough to turn it into plasma, and then deflect it (since it's plasma), so presumably bullets are a non-issue, given lots of assumptions about the wielder.

That said, I'm not arguing either way in the global argument - I think that a lightsaber could negate a bullet, but that doesn't mean that a Jedi could face off against a machine gun and win.

Not "steam", but vaporised lead. Steam was the best descriptor I could come up with. And what's casing the loss in velocity? The kinetic energy of the bullets would be unchanged, unless I've got my physics wrong. Although you do raise a good point about the whole plasma thing. However, I don't know if merely being heated would be enough to turn the bullets into plasma.

Jedi could also dodge bullets pretty easily Id imagine, since they have both super speed and mild precognition.

Then why don't they just dodge Blaster Bolts, which move much slower?