Wheel of Time (Split from Geeky/Nerdy Kids Books)

[novax6]

Eh, I used to keep up with series. Read through the first 10 pretty much one after another, but I felt they went downhill after the 3rd book (and even parts of that one were silly). I almost gave up after he started resurrecting all the badguys, which seemed pointless and unnecessary. I might finish it eventually after all the last 3 books are out.

It's probably still my 3rd or 4th favorite fantasy series, partially because of the first two books, and partially because I haven't read many fantasy series lately.

[pseudoidiot]

Almost done with 'The Gathering Storm' (only about 60 pages to go) and all I can say is: Wow.

I mean, seriously. I haven't read a book this hard to put down in quite a while, and it wasn't just the anticipation. We'll unfortunately never know what the book would've been like had Robert Jordan written it, but Brandon Sanderson has done a bang-up job. That man knows how to pace a book and keep things going. I feel like more things happened in this book than the last couple books. I enjoyed Robert Jordan's writing, but I do have to say he was kind of slow at moving things a long sometimes.

I mean, [MAJOR SPOILERS]

Spoiler:

2 forsaken killed. Not just killed. Burned out of the pattern with balefire. In one case taking a whole palace with it!
Verin was Black Ajah (always had my suspicions) and she kept extensive notes on them revealing the names of some 200 other Black sisters after poisoning herself -- leave it to an Aes Sedai to find a loophole in an oath to the Dark One. Including Sheriam (whom I was already suspicious of).
A Seanchan raid on the White Tower. Elaida captured and collared.
The White Tower re-united (at least well on it's way) with Egwene raised the Amyrlin by the Sitters in the Tower (not just the rebels).
And holy shit, Rand tapping the True Source! Did NOT expect that to ever happen.
I am kind of sad that Elayne isn't in the book at all (unless she's in the last 60 pages I have yet to read).

With all that's happened I actually wonder what else is left for the final two books. But with reading the Mistborn trilogy that Sanderson wrote, I fully expect the last two WoT books to move along just as well as this one is.

[Dukus]

We'll unfortunately never know what the book would've been like had Robert Jordan written it, but Brandon Sanderson has done a bang-up job.

Seriously? I've just finished 11 and am worried about getting 12 as I have heard very mixed reviews!

I mean, who am I kidding? I will totally read it one day, but I'm going to bask in Robert Jordans brilliance for a little longer before seeing what Sanderson has done to the characters that we know so well now. Having not read any of his others I don't know his style (but have heard good things about his fantasy work)

Anyone else read the series (and Brandon Sandersons effort) and have any thoughts regarding it/them?

[alphawolf29]

I bought the first book in a second hand book store and haven't been able to get into it. I also don't see what's so good about it.

[novax6]

I bought the first book in a second hand book store and haven't been able to get into it. I also don't see what's so good about it.

I liked the first 3, but they get worse from there IMO, so if you're not even liking that then you should move onto to something better, like The Name of The Wind, or the A Song of Ice and Fire series.

[JayDee]

I finally got around to reading the Gathering Storm today. Pretty pumped, too, so I don't mind bumping an old thread and replying to a months old post. I wanna say stuff.

Brandon Sanderson has done a bang-up job. That man knows how to pace a book and keep things going.

Hell yes he did a bang-up job. There were very few times I thought 'this book wasn't written by the same guy as the others'. More than the pacing I loved that most of the characters who were in the book (who got POV chapters, kinda thing) got a solid arc out of it. There were far more resolutions that usual. Little surprise, this close to the end, but nice nonetheless.

Spoiler:

2 forsaken killed. Not just killed. Burned out of the pattern with balefire. In one case taking a whole palace with it!

Merciful Zeus, the efficiency. A whole palace gone, but the whole encounter taking only a few short pages. And not just that, either. The scenes with the Domani general, Rodel Ituralde, had me thinking there would be all drawn out engagements, only to have Rand teleport to him and tell him to get to work. I like efficient Rand.

Also, scene where he tells Nynaeve "you think I'm an idiot, not noticing what is obvious to you? Of course I know that being an emotional-less lump will destroy me, I just don't think it matters" was wonderful. Although not quite as good as Tam calling Cadsuane a bully.

Verin was Black Ajah (always had my suspicions) and she kept extensive notes on them revealing the names of some 200 other Black sisters after poisoning herself -- leave it to an Aes Sedai to find a loophole in an oath to the Dark One.

I actually read about his on the TvTropes Crowning Moment of Awesome page, and it was most of the reason I ended up buying and reading the book instead of waiting longer. "Oh, and that dress you are wearing is green." Ah. A scene of "Verin shows up and renders an entire page or two of the FAQs unanswered questions answered." Egwene's chapters were just one awesome moment after another. Just like in the book before, only with much more of them and with resolution to two or three plotlines. (I wouldn't be surprised if there is very little of Egwene in the next book.)

I am kind of sad that Elayne isn't in the book at all (unless she's in the last 60 pages I have yet to read).

I kind of wish there had been more of Mat, myself, but I'm glad it was done as it was. Rand's and Egwene's plots were the ones being dealt with, and those were dealt with in a complete sort of way. The others were barely touched on beyond what was needed for those two. (Perrin and Faile got a couple of chapters and some closure, but I suspect they were mostly in the book so that Tam wasn't showing up out of nowhere at the end. Tuon got her scene with Rand, and her bits ordering the tower attack. Mat caught up with Verin, mostly, and wound up in place to finally head to the Tower of Ghenjei.)

With all that's happened I actually wonder what else is left for the final two books.

The next book will assumedly deal with wrapping up the remaining characters plots. Anything with Elayne, and Perrin. More importantly, Mat and Thom and friends. Hell, if that is the entire book I won't mind. On top of that, there will be a plotline with Rand. Oh, and the Black Tower. That will probably be the Rand bit.

The last book will be mostly taken up with Tarmon Gaidon itself, presumably.

[pseudoidiot]

Damn, rereading my post and your response, I really want to read The Gathering Storm again.

[BrighTide]

I just finished the Gathering Storm and now i feel a bit guilty that the book that wasn't written by RJ is my favorite in the series, one of my favorite books ever in fact, but yeah, I've been reading the WoT series for while, believe it or not it can take a long time to read them all.
I agree with who ever said it that there are lots of favorite moments, example, "why do maidens use hand talk? Because even when there not talking they can't stop talking", i loled for like 10 mins.
The only real negatives of the series is i spent like around half the time raging at the women, most especial Nynaeve, i mean when Mat rescued her and co from the Stone i wish i could have been there to hit her in the face with a sledge hammer.
It would be interesting to knowing what other peoples most favorite moments are, mine would most definitely have to be

Spoiler:

Egwene al'Vere standing in the gaping whole of the tower with Raken swooping through the smoke and she's bad ass pawning everything, it just gave such an awesome mental image. But yeah, its a contest between that and Rands DnM with the world at the end of Gathering Storm.

I can't wait for the next one, its shall rock! So yeah, whats your favorite moment?

[JayDee]

I might have some slight regret if I fall asleep in the middle of my final exam in a couple hours, but I just stayed up all night to read Towers of Midnight in a single sitting. Totally worth it.

Quite tempted to just gush about everything in a long spoilered post, but I'll refrain a little.

I don't think there was a single chapter I was kinda pumped reading, nothing I wished would end so I could get to a better bit with a different character. (and there were plenty of scenes with Perrin and Faile, so that is saying something.) It's like, in Knife of Dreams there were a couple of chapters that were really good - everything with Egwene, plus a bit more. Then in The Gathering Storm, two of the arcs (Egwene's and Rand's) maintained that level of awesome. Then this one has most of the book at that level.

Part of it, I think, is all the call backs. So much returning to / referencing the first books. Heaps of stuff from books one, two, three. Bringing back some characters, bringing back some themes. A general sense of everything coming together.

I think there's only two plots left unresolved now. Well, apart from the stuff for Tarmon Gai'don itself.

Spoiler:

One, the Black Tower. Only two scenes took place there. Just set up for the confrontation with Taim.
Two, the Seanchan. There was an interesting scene about them, set generations after the last battle. But the Empress still needs to be dealt with or knelt to or whatever.
Maybe three, with the twist that came right at the end. Caemlyn

Ah. So pleased. Mustn't gush.

[Aodhan]

I should be getting Towers of Midnight tomorrow or the day after. If it's as good as A Gathering Storm was, I will be very, very happy. My exam marks next week probably won't be so good, though.

[pseudoidiot]

Gah, now I'm trying to decide between rushing out and getting ToM now or just putting it on my Christmas list. But I don't want to wait!

Maybe I'll just check it out from the library so I can read it now, then still put it on my list. Eureka!

[torontoraptor]

Just got it as an early present from my sister. I'm going to have to take my time reading it due to exams and wanting to pass, but every time I start reading, I look up and its suddenly 4 am. Brandon Sanderson's style is certainly different from Robert Jordan's, but I think its in a good way. It's simpler, so he can start resolving all the plots and tying up all the loose ends and not take several extra books to do it

[Drumheller769]

Must resist...must wait....book already on Christmas list....gahhh....

- I also am to the point where I enjoy that Sanderson is actually wrapping up lose ends and advancing the plot meaningfully in a reasonable number of pages.

[pseudoidiot]

I'm probably not the first to have ever made the comparison, but I've decided that Two Rivers folk are basically the Hobbits of WoT.

There's the tobacco of course. They're both sort of segregated from surrounding areas. They first seem like simple folk, but have a pretty rich history. There may be more similarities, but it just occurred to me while re-reading The Fellowship of the Ring.

[JayDee]

It's pretty deliberate. Apparently the main character was going to be someone more like Lan, (older man who found out late in life he was "important") but he decided to make the start of the books seem familiar to readers of LotR & co. Easing people in / bait and switch, depending on how generous you're feeling.

There were two things I completely failed to notice, reading Towers of Midnight.

Spoiler:

A) Pretty clear remark about how killed Asmodean, which was just as off-handed as I was hoping for.
B) The crazy not-Aiel guys right at the end, with the red veils. Someone on TvTropes made the connection "remember where the Aiel send their male chanellers? Yeah."

Oh, and also I'd been thinking the tower Aes Sedai in the Black Tower had been either darkfriends or fallen victim to compulsion. Then I learnt (again, from TvTropes) than Sanderson has said "yes, that 13 channellers + 13 Myrddraal to turn someone to the dark thing mentioned back in what, book 2, wasn't a red herring, it will play a part."

[Azrael001]

After school is done I'm going to have to reread the first 11 just so that I can remember what the heck is going on enough to read the last ones. Now I get to play the waiting game.

[JayDee]

After school is done I'm going to have to reread the first 11 just so that I can remember what the heck is going on enough to read the last ones. Now I get to play the waiting game.

Eh. Just go for it. Wiki character names or other nouns if need be. There did used to be some pretty good recaps / summaries, but from memory they stopped around Knife of Dreams, or at least the ones I was reading did.

[EmptySet]

Given the rate at which the plot advances, you could probably skip 7 - 11 and hardly notice the difference.

[Azrael001]

I seem to recall that quite a bit happened in the 11th book relative to the preceding few.

[EmptySet]

True, but it's not hard for quite a bit to happen relative to number ten. And as I recall a bunch of the stuff that happened in 11 was resolving filler plots which served primarily to draw the plot out unnecessarily for books 9 and 10. I haven't actually read those books for a while, mind, so I may be misremembering.

[Meem1029]

I read the first couple a while back and really enjoyed them, especially the world. I need to find the books and get into reading them again because they were great. I heard from some friends too that the plots get exceptionally slow after a while.

In regards to people loving the world, I recently found a game on the internet that takes place in the Wheel of Time world. It's at http://www.wotmud.org. Have any of you played this before? It seems pretty cool from what I've seen so far.

[Ortus]

Holy hell I love these books. Towers of Midnight was pretty much awesome, as I was waiting for SPOILER ALERT

Spoiler:

Perrin to become the utter badass I knew he was eventually going to become. Perrin? Utter baddass for sure. I'm hoping the ending is similar to the Dark Tower series (Stephen King) in that the Dark Tower series ended in pure, unadulterated epic badassery. Also? Dumbass Rand is gone, badass Rand is here. Ooohhhh, Rand is badass. Not the same badass as Perrin, but badass nonetheless. Where Mat is one magnificent bastard, Perrin has a hammer... and Rand does things. With magic. And he now does things with poignancy. It's beautiful. Also: Perrin has a hammer. A big one. With magic. A magical hammer.

I can't correctly or expressly express my thoughts on these books, especially the last two. Sanderson lives kinda near me, and I'm proud of my vicinity to him. 'Nuff said. (not really)

[Midnight]

I've been trying to line up who could beat who in a fight.

I'm figuring Perrin > Gawyn > Galad > Rand > Mat > Lan as far as hand-to-hand. if it's not hand to hand combat, obviously it's Everyone >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rand.

I got the two most recent ones for Christmas, and I gotta say

Spoiler:

-Taim, why you gotta be such an asshole?
-Demandred, where the fuck you at?
-Rand, THANK FUCKING GOD YOU STOPPED DOING THE WHOLE COLD EMOTIONLESS THING, JEEZ
-Major leaders of the world, traveling exists. Why doesn't everyone just line up ALL their prophecies? I wanna know exactly what the sea folk, aiel, western, and seanchan prophecies are so we can figure this shit out.
-Tuon, why the fuck are you attacking the White Tower? Rand's like "nah, man, I gotta unite everyone instead of bowing to you" and Tuon's like "okay, sounds good. I'm going to kill all of the Aes Sedai." Seriously Mat, you need to get back there and Explain Some Shit.

Tuon's a really good character, but jesus fuck she's annoying. Even other Seanchan, who believe the same stuff, aren't NEARLY as irritating.

Wrap-up's gonna be exciting, but with what, >15,000 written pages, it's gonna be impossible to satisfy everyone.

[HungryHobo]

Sanderson certainly is doing a fantastic job on these last few books.
characters have memory now! they can recall things more than 1 book in the past!

Throughout a lot of the books there was more than a few points when I was looking at situations where they had everything they needed to solve their problems yet for no apparent reason they seemed to intentionally act stupid.
Sanderson cleared that up a lot.
Example:

Spoiler:

the tower had a problem with the black sisters..... yet didn't just oath rod everyone systematically now and then to find them, Sanderson fixed that as well as coming up with a delightful little workaround.

[pseudoidiot]

There were two things I completely failed to notice, reading Towers of Midnight.

Spoiler:

A) Pretty clear remark about how killed Asmodean, which was just as off-handed as I was hoping for.
B) The crazy not-Aiel guys right at the end, with the red veils. Someone on TvTropes made the connection "remember where the Aiel send their male chanellers? Yeah."

Oh, and also I'd been thinking the tower Aes Sedai in the Black Tower had been either darkfriends or fallen victim to compulsion. Then I learnt (again, from TvTropes) than Sanderson has said "yes, that 13 channellers + 13 Myrddraal to turn someone to the dark thing mentioned back in what, book 2, wasn't a red herring, it will play a part."

Spoiler:

Could you point out "A" for me? I just finished reading it, and that must have completely slipped me by.

I figured out pretty quick what the Aiel with red veils must be, but it's nice to have confirmation.

I kind of like that the whole 13 channelers + 13 Myrddraal thing has been kind of forgotten about for so long -- all anyone talks about is a circle of 13 to still/gentle someone. But with the way those scenes were described at the Black Tower, I just knew they were converting people somehow, and suddenly I remembered it again.

I'm guessing there's another dreamspike at the Black Tower. And I think it's awesome that guy nearly has a Talent in his gateway ability. Making gateways to snip leather? Pretty awesome. Nearly being able to blast a gateway through the dreamspike. Even more awesome. I'm excited to see more about him.

It was good to have confirmation that Noal was Jain Farstrider at the end, although those clues seemed a little more obvious than some of the stuff Robert Jordan usually slips in.

I'm sad Moiraine didn't come back until nearly the very end of the book. Especially since there's only one book to go. I'm looking forward to her being in some pretty significant scenes in the future.

My memory is failing me, how was the Waystone in Caemlyn supposed to have been protected? I think it's amusing Verin was relying on Mat's curiosity, but not taking into account his general dislike of Aes Sedai and getting caught up in their plans.

That's enough rambling for now.

Fuck, the next book can't come fast enough.

[JayDee]

Spoiler:

Could you point out "A" for me? I just finished reading it, and that must have completely slipped me by.

Looking just now for a quote, I found out that it's explicity stated in the Glossary. Huh. Haven't read those since book six. Used to be, I thought, that they didn't have spoilers for the book they were in, either. From the WoTwiki:

The Glossary of Towers of Midnight says of Graendal: "A ruthless killer, she was responsible for the deaths of Aran'gar and Asmodean and for the destruction of Mesaana." In the book itself, Shaidar Haran states that Graendal's actions have led to the deaths of three Chosen: "Three Chosen, destroyed by your actions." Towers of Midnight makes it clear that two of these are Aran'gar and Mesaana. As no other Forsaken's deaths are attributable to her, this can most reasonably be taken as confirmation that she did in fact kill Asmodean.

That line by Shaidar Haran is what I was referring to. Since the "mystery" was mostly something only fairly obsessive fans needed closure on, seems the perfect way to put it.

I'm guessing there's another dreamspike at the Black Tower.

Mmm. When Graendal receives hers: "I have found only two of these. The other is being but to good use." - Moridin. We could probably work out how about long it's been there, too. It's quite a while since anyone has Travelled to the Black Tower.

[pseudoidiot]

Thanks! My critical reading skills failed me there, so that line totally swept by me and I didn't put any real thought into it.

[JayDee]

Critical reading is less important than "oh my god what happens next!" reading.

[pseudoidiot]

Yeah, that's pretty much all I've been able to do with these.

It's also interesting, because Brandon Sanderson has been doing a re-read of the series and Tweeting/Facebooking about it and mentioning interesting little bits of trivia along the way. Bits of prophecy. Some things that are, in retrospect, kind of amusing with events that have happened in the last couple books.

[Midnight]

Yeah the other ter'angreal HAS to be at the black tower. It's all that makes sense.


Gateway guy is cool.

But I'm worried that this last book is going to be too much, too fast. I realize that it's totally ridiculous to say that this six-parter-turned-fourteen-parter lacks text, but it's gonna be
> Covering EVERYTHING at the Black Tower.
> Covering EVERYTHING Demandred has been up to (cause he's supposed to be the foil to Lews Therin) as well as Moridin's crackpot schemes.
> Moirane explains a ton.
> Find out exactly where Loial has been.
> Finally have a triple-ta'veren meetup that BEST have a ton of dialogue & Mat jokes.
> Covering moar with Egwene and the Aes Sedai.
> Covering the red-veiled Aiel.
> Probably some shit about Callandor.
> A ton of stuff to do with Seanchan in general.
> Maybe some stuff from the lands beyond the waste
> THE WHOLE FUCKING LAST BATTLE.

In a mere thousand pages.

[JayDee]

More than half of that list can happen at Tarmon Gai'don, though.

> Maybe some stuff from the lands beyond the waste

I was wondering about this today, after I noticed that the glossary has a whole page entry on Shara. Most all the other entries seemed relevant to the book, so it stuck out.

[emceng]

I need to reread ToM. I enjoyed it, but thought TGS was much better.

I guess one minor complaint was the:

Spoiler:

Graendel STILL not dead. It was another example of not killing someone off finally.

I had no idea about the re-veiled Aiel, but then I can't remember them from when I read it the day after it came out.

Didn't like the part with Camelyn burning, but I guess it made sense.

I also think there is a bit too much to get a good resolution of certain events - especially the Black Tower.

[pseudoidiot]

I guess one minor complaint was the:

Spoiler:

Graendel STILL not dead. It was another example of not killing someone off finally.

Spoiler:

At first, I was kind of irritated by the scene where it's revealed how she escaped alive. Just leave her dead. But I liked how things played out. She fell far and had one final chance not to fuck up. Which she failed.

And, yeah, she's not dead at the end of ToM, but the scene with Shaidar Haran had a strong sense of finality to me. My feeling is that Shaidar Haran is going to have some "fun" with her for a while, which may or may not end in her death, but I won't be surprised if we don't see any more from her. Unless she gets trotted back out because things are going badly and the Dark One needs every tool it can make use of.

And, yeah, it feels like there's still a lot to resolve, but here's the way I see it: everything that's happened in the last two books, plus the upcoming one, Robert Jordan was going to try and squeeze into one final book (although he admitted it may have been goddamn huge). So a lot of things are getting more/better treatment than they might have otherwise.

[emceng]

Reread the first 2/3 of it over the weekend. There was one fridge logic moment though - but considering how all magic systems are....

Spoiler:

Ok, so bad guy channelers blew a big ass-hole in the wall of Maradon. So why didn't the Asha'man just stick a wall of Air in its place? Bam, no breach.

Also random observation - I don't think any of the book was from Rand's point of view. I wonder if the last book will be like that.

Random thought - tying off weaves. So apparently if you tie something off, it stays like that, and another channeler can't undo it unless they can cut weaves or whatever. Wouldn't that mean you could just leave random invisible blocks of Air laying around? Or have a fire in you fireplace for eternity? Why don't they do that?

[Drumheller769]

The weave will unravel on its own after a few hours. I'm at work so I cant look it up, but I'm positive they say that a few times in the earlier books as Egwene, Nyneave, and Elayne are learning to channel.

[emceng]

See, I wondered about that, but then I remember another scene. Moghdien I think wants to punish one of the Black Ajah, and ties a super complex weave on her blocking her from the source. Then Moghdien taunted her saying something along the lines of 'good luck finding someone to help you unravel that'.

Found it: http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Liandrin

Maybe I'll browse the wiki and see if it has any info on tying off weaves.

[pseudoidiot]

Mat Cauthon's Inbox: http://twitpic.com/3qvbxp/

Very amusing. Contains some spoilers from at least the last few books (or at least hints at them).

[Drumheller769]

See, I wondered about that, but then I remember another scene. Moghdien I think wants to punish one of the Black Ajah, and ties a super complex weave on her blocking her from the source. Then Moghdien taunted her saying something along the lines of 'good luck finding someone to help you unravel that'.

Found it: http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Liandrin

Maybe I'll browse the wiki and see if it has any info on tying off weaves.

Thats a good point....I think you found a contradiction.

[pseudoidiot]

It might be a case of the Forsaken knowing how to do shit that Aes Sedai don't. There may be some trick to tying off a weave so that it's more permanent.

[JayDee]

Or if you're good enough you can make it last years instead of hours? You could find other examples of things being left for ages. What Rand leaves around Callandor, for one. Traps left around waygates, too? There're plenty of examples of compulsion being left on people, but that might be a different thing (the net of compulsion might be something created by weaves rather than weaves tied off and left there. Probably is, but I can't remember off hand.)

Perhaps how fast a tied off weave unravels depends on how much of the power it draws. Complicated things that draw a trickle of spirit (at least until they're triggered) lasting longer that a fire weave that constantly draws a steady stream of fire.

Or more complex knots could last longer, but only be possible with smaller, more delicate weaves. And skill - especially early on there were plenty of astonishment at the complexity (number of separate flows, complexity of the weaving) some were capable of. Given the ways that strength in the power work in the books it would be no surprise if the ability to tie off weaves and have the last is limited to a few. And no surprise if that few were so small it was taught as impossible at the tower.

On the other hand, channeling is one of those things that is far more powerful than anyone in the books seems to realise. The number of "why don't they just ..." complaints we could come up with would be endless. Which makes the occasional reversals of that trend all the more awesome.