[TM] Secret (Ubik) Mafia - APLHA - GAME OVER - Scum win!

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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby Elvish Pillager » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:01 pm UTC

EBWOP: and between Van, mpolo, and whoever arrives from Beta, we should have more information tomorrow. Although Van might just get "Mavketl was a Mage, town" :(
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby Elvish Pillager » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:13 pm UTC

And as for EH knowing anything, I doubt it - I'm the one with Nanite Spray (my protection is "Nanite spray" flavor-wise). The day title "Don't Delay/Nanite Spray" could be referring to the fact that I queued my nanite-spraying for the beginning of today.

Makes me wonder if the earlier day titles are referring to in-game events too.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby Mavketl » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:41 pm UTC

I guess there isn't much I can do here, with the deadline being right about now. I'm not dying willingly. I would rather lynch scum. I haven't starting trusting Van any more since when I voted for her, so:
Vote: Van

Mavketl's will wrote:Hi,

If you are reading this, I will probably be dead. I have a few last requests to make of you all.
1) if Van gets a "cop result" that I am scum, don't buy it.
2) take a closer look at everyone who decided that it was a good idea to sacrifice a semi-known townie today
3) trust e_e. trust mpolo. and if you feel you can, trust VZ.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby Elvish Pillager » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:08 pm UTC

What is there to trust about e_e or VZ? If you have reasons for that, it's probably better to detail them now than it is to wait until after you're completely dead.

I don't get where you're coming from on the "If Van says I'm scum" thing either. If Van is scum and decides to claim a result on you, she will almost certainly claim that you were town.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby greenlover » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:49 pm UTC

Well, I guess I should vote before it is too late:

vote: Van

Not because I am extremely confident that she is scum, but because - among all the players we can lynch - she has the most wine around her and has set off the most scum pings in my mind. Just too many unanswered questions about her and her role for me to trust her enough to prefer lynching mav above her.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby Elvish Pillager » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:45 pm UTC

If you think Van's scum, you have to think that there was only ever one player in the entire setup who could detect players' alignments. That seems absurd to me. Please don't lynch our only source of alignment information.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby greenlover » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:31 am UTC

Elvish Pillager wrote:If you think Van's scum, you have to think that there was only ever one player in the entire setup who could detect players' alignments. That seems absurd to me. Please don't lynch our only source of alignment information.

I do think that there are other players who can detect alignments/roles. I just don't think that there are any that can do it after the said player is dead. In fact, I honestly have doubts that such a role exists in this game.

Put it like this: If Van is scum, she pretty much picked the perfect role to fake. She is vital to the town, yet there is little chance that she will be caught in a lie (Simply because any previous investigation of a player will be brought up while that player is being lynched.). That basically forces town not to lynch her, while having no way to verify her role.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby Elvish Pillager » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:42 am UTC

greenlover wrote:
Elvish Pillager wrote:If you think Van's scum, you have to think that there was only ever one player in the entire setup who could detect players' alignments. That seems absurd to me. Please don't lynch our only source of alignment information.

I do think that there are other players who can detect alignments/roles.

Oh yeah? Who exactly? Everyone in this thread has claimed their powers in full, and none except Van and jayhsu claimed alignment detection. There are only two players left in the other thread. Sure, there's a remote possibility that one of them is a cop and will claim a lot of results when they enter this thread, but surely we should wait until that either happens or doesn't happen before passing judgment on Van.

If I'm wrong, not lynching her until we have more information doesn't hurt us at all, since Mav's powers are useless after today and we know Van doesn't control the kill. If I'm right, lynching her now loses us valuable information.

Plus, in the unlikely case where she IS scum, every day gives her that much extra chance to mess up and incriminate herself, which would clear up a lot more wine than just lynching her and never learning her alignment.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby greenlover » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:12 am UTC

Elvish Pillager wrote:Oh yeah? Who exactly? Everyone in this thread has claimed their powers in full, and none except Van and jayhsu claimed alignment detection. There are only two players left in the other thread. Sure, there's a remote possibility that one of them is a cop and will claim a lot of results when they enter this thread, but surely we should wait until that either happens or doesn't happen before passing judgment on Van.
First off, a primary part of Van's own defense as to why she cannot be scum is the existence of other alignment detectors. If you believe that this is not true, this is a point against Van, not for her.

Secondly, I honestly hope that people have not claimed all of their powers. I know that I have not claimed the full extent of my powers; to do so would benefit scum much, much more than it would benefit town. I hope that the other players in this thread have seen this as well, and have only claimed to the point useful for town.

Third, one of the facts about Van that has been called into question is the idea that she is a cop. The fact is, if she is scum, she could pick few better roles to fake than a cop who can only investigate those who are already dead. Randomly, at that.

Finally, even if she was a cop (which I highly doubt), she would have all the incentive in the world to lie to town, and town would have no way to tell if she was lying or not.

Here is the fact: I don't want to put the survival of the town into the hands of someone around which there is so much wine, so much doubt, and so many unanswered questions. We have no way to verify she is a cop, to verify she is town, or to simply verify that she is even telling the truth. Saying that she is vital, and we can't lynch her because of it just isn't good enough, because you simply cannot verify that she is vital, either. To top all of this off, we now have evidence that supports the idea that she could very well have already lied several times.

So, because of that, I would rather lynch her than mav. Waiting to do lynch her is only going to make a towny win harder.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby greenlover » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:17 am UTC

EBYOP:
greenlover wrote:Finally, even if she was a cop (which I highly doubt), she would have all the incentive in the world to lie to town, and town would have no way to tell if she was lying or not.

Assuming that she is scum, of course. :-)
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby Elvish Pillager » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:45 am UTC

...you're arguing that she's likely to be scum based on the assumption that she's scum?

greenlover wrote:Secondly, I honestly hope that people have not claimed all of their powers. I know that I have not claimed the full extent of my powers; to do so would benefit scum much, much more than it would benefit town. I hope that the other players in this thread have seen this as well, and have only claimed to the point useful for town.

Oh, huh, that reminds me - we ought to verify e_e's claim by having them claim something about their anti-mage power that isn't already public knowledge, and you verify it. existential_elevator, you up for that?

greenlover wrote:Here is the fact: I don't want to put the survival of the town into the hands of someone around which there is so much wine, so much doubt, and so many unanswered questions.

I don't get it. How does not lynching a player today constitute putting the survival of the town into her hands? I also don't get where you're pulling the "so much wine" and "so many unanswered questions" from. The only question that hasn't been answered is "Is she scum?" and *no one*, except maybe mpolo, is confirmed town at this point, so that's a non-starter. And wine? The wine's coming from Mav, not from Van.

If you're talking about "Why wasn't her ability stopped by my roleblock", then there's a lot of possible simple explanations for that, and lynching her would give us no information whatsoever. When someone has wine around them, you lynch them because that tells you their alignment. In this game, there is no such incentive, and since we know Van doesn't have the kill, she's not very dangerous even if she IS scum. So we should lynch elsewhere.

greenlover wrote:To top all of this off, we now have evidence that supports the idea that she could very well have already lied several times.

We have evidence that she could have lied? Yeah... the only evidence you need to show that she could have lied several times is for her to have spoken several sentences already. How about you say that we have evidence that she did lie? But you wouldn't say that, would you, because we DON'T have evidence that she did lie! What would you expect a person with the role she's claimed to do? Come up with a false claim to be more convincing?

My logic for Van being town is based on some fairly simple premises: I believe that Aardvarki wouldn't construct a setup with virtually no way of determining players' alignments. Specifically, I think it's almost certain that in a game with alignments not revealed on death, there would be one or more players who could determine the alignments of the dead. So from my perspective, Van is claiming a role that's almost guaranteed to be in the game, and the only person who's counterclaimed that role is jayhsu, who seems as likely as not to have been scum claiming it to create confusion among the town.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby Elvish Pillager » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:54 am UTC

Meta: It's been 15.5 RL days since this game started. As a "Turbo Mini", it's supposed to run for 18 days, maximum. So we have 2.5 RL days left? At the rate of death so far, it seems very unlikely that the game will end on time.

Also, it's definitely past the deadline by now. :|
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby Aardvarki » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:28 am UTC

I'm really sorry guys. I've been ridiculously busy recently, and haven't been able to give this game the attention it deserves. I've been late processing abilities, and have barely been able to put enough time in daily to qualify for PLAYING a turbo-mini, let alone MODDING one. I'll have more time starting tomorrow, but we're heading past the cap already, and I can't even end D4 right now because I wasn't able to get to a computer (but I have my phone - which I can read PMs from and sometimes reply, but not much else) to process abilities or post votals all weekend, including this one, which is rather important:

Again, one wandered off from the group. Why didn't they just stick together!? Every time someone wandered off, it seemed they never came back. This time it was Elvish Pillager. They found his smoking, twisted remains a few hours later. Whatever was doing this hadn't stopped.

Elvish Pillager is dead.

Because of this, I'm extending the deadline for Day 4 until tomorrow evening. Any further days will be a 36-48 hour maximum. Again, I'm really sorry, but I'm back now.

Votals:
Mavketl (1): Van
Greenlover (1): mpolo
Van (2): Mavketl, Greenlover
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby greenlover » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:51 am UTC

Elvish Pillager wrote:...you're arguing that she's likely to be scum based on the assumption that she's scum?
The impact of that one statement only applies if she is scum. I figured I would clarify that.

Elvish Pillager wrote:I don't get it. How does not lynching a player today constitute putting the survival of the town into her hands? I also don't get where you're pulling the "so much wine" and "so many unanswered questions" from. The only question that hasn't been answered is "Is she scum?" and *no one*, except maybe mpolo, is confirmed town at this point, so that's a non-starter. And wine? The wine's coming from Mav, not from Van.
You are advocating that we wait to lynch her until we have more information. However, you yourself conceded that there is only one player who *might* have the ability to tell if she is town or not, and that is the only thing I can see worth waiting for. So, if we are going to lynch her, there is no point in waiting until tomorrow. If we don't lynch her, then we are pretty much assuming that she is town; and will have little choice but to trust what she tells us about the alignment of those who die. Which, in effect, will be putting the survival of the town in her hands.

What I mean by wine and unanswered questions is the entire situation. Two role blocks had no effect on her. Why? We. Don't. Know. That sounds like wine and unanswered questions to my (admittedly, new) mind.

Elvish Pillager wrote:If you're talking about "Why wasn't her ability stopped by my roleblock", then there's a lot of possible simple explanations for that, and lynching her would give us no information whatsoever. When someone has wine around them, you lynch them because that tells you their alignment. In this game, there is no such incentive, and since we know Van doesn't have the kill, she's not very dangerous even if she IS scum. So we should lynch elsewhere.
There are two explanations for why my role block didn't work: 1) I can't block, and 2) I can't block passive powers. Both of those explanations directly contradict what the mod seems to have told me. I think a much better explanation is that she really was roleblocked, was prevented from using her power, but didn't realize it and when ahead a claimed her faked action anyhow.

Lynching her will not give any information, true. However, it wouldn't give any more information if we waited, and it will eliminate a very possible threat to town.

Elvish Pillager wrote:We have evidence that she could have lied? Yeah... the only evidence you need to show that she could have lied several times is for her to have spoken several sentences already. How about you say that we have evidence that she did lie? But you wouldn't say that, would you, because we DON'T have evidence that she did lie! What would you expect a person with the role she's claimed to do? Come up with a false claim to be more convincing?
The chances that she has lied are rather high in my mind. However, there is always the remote chance that she is telling the truth and some random weirdness just happened. However, I find that rather unlikely. And, no, we do not have evidence that - beyond any shadow of a doubt - she did lie. However, the evidence currently provided seems rather pointed in that direction.

Elvish Pillager wrote:My logic for Van being town is based on some fairly simple premises: I believe that Aardvarki wouldn't construct a setup with virtually no way of determining players' alignments. Specifically, I think it's almost certain that in a game with alignments not revealed on death, there would be one or more players who could determine the alignments of the dead. So from my perspective, Van is claiming a role that's almost guaranteed to be in the game, and the only person who's counterclaimed that role is jayhsu, who seems as likely as not to have been scum claiming it to create confusion among the town.
First off, jay never claimed that kind of role. What he did claim was this:
jayhsu wrote:I can basically rolecop players, and check alignments on cryo-stasis players. I can also cryo-freeze once per game.
Nothing in there about being to examine the roles of those who are completely dead. So, Van's role is completely unique, and completely unverifiable. Also - there are roles like you suggested in this game. However, none of them are like Van's power, and, as such, none of them can verify her power for us.

Oh, here is another fun thing I found while re-reading Van's posts:
Van wrote:Given that I'm dead, direct magery is out of the question.
This is coming from the person who showed up magical on mpolo's scanner. Hm.

Pre-edit - Dangit. There goes one of the few players that I was persuaded was town. >_<
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby Van » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:04 am UTC

I don't have time for a long post, so let's try a short one:

By D4, we would normally have lynched 4 people and had 5 people NKed (FAOT's, I am assuming, was oneshot).
You, greenlover, can make some assumptions about those people, namely that the 5 dead people are town, or at least not scum aligned, but the 4 lynches are unknowns until revealed by the mod. There is no revealing by the mod in this game.

What seems more likely to you?
a: I am constructing an absolutely amazing series of lies, based on a foundation of really stupid playing designed to give myself the absolute worst possible chance of winning the game
or
b: I'm telling the truth.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby existential_elevator » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:03 pm UTC

sorry, I'm really struggling to get through the reading, but I did skim something that I can clarify:

I was role-blocking the hell out of FOAT. I blocked him 2 days in a row. Didn't do it soon enough to keep Mav in beta, but still. I'll double-check my actions, but as long as he was in that thread, I was blocking him.

And honestly - I don't think we should be lynching Mav or van.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby existential_elevator » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:30 pm UTC

Elvish Pillager wrote:
greenlover wrote:Secondly, I honestly hope that people have not claimed all of their powers. I know that I have not claimed the full extent of my powers; to do so would benefit scum much, much more than it would benefit town. I hope that the other players in this thread have seen this as well, and have only claimed to the point useful for town.
Oh, huh, that reminds me - we ought to verify e_e's claim by having them claim something about their anti-mage power that isn't already public knowledge, and you verify it. existential_elevator, you up for that?

Sorry, I missed this. My god, the reading. Not sure what is pulic knowledge, as the role is not that extensive, but I am immune to all magic abilities. Yeah.

Any my role-blocks:

D1: E_P
D2: FoaT
D3: FoaT (I'm pretty sure, though I'm struggling to find my PM for Day 3 targets)
D4: nobody (because I haven't read up and don't want to select at random)
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby Van » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:37 pm UTC

If you're immune to magic, shouldn't that rule out magecommunication for you? I'm pretty sure this whole "magic" thing is either extremely misrepresented or completely non-extant. Nothing actually seems to be magic, nothing is pinging as magic being used, etc.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby existential_elevator » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:40 pm UTC

I thought communication was a technical ability, not a magical one? At least, that was the impression I had. I guess there could be both technical and magical communicators.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby Van » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:49 pm UTC

It may or may not be (I don't know), but the point is: if a mage has two abilities, and neither one of them are actually magic, what's the point in even calling them a mage? It isn't magic, they aren't mages.

I mean, greenlover was told his antimagic blocks medics when they use nanite sprays? How.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby mpolo » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:33 pm UTC

There is a lot of weirdness going on, certainly. Maybe we're in an Arthur C. Clarke world -- advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby greenlover » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:07 pm UTC

Van wrote:What seems more likely to you?
a: I am constructing an absolutely amazing series of lies, based on a foundation of really stupid playing designed to give myself the absolute worst possible chance of winning the game
or
b: I'm telling the truth.

Or about c: You faked a role that is unlikely to be counterclaimed (and even if it is, you can just say "oh goody", and let him do all the work until you kill him), that is impossible to verify, and, if it was true, vital to town (meaning we can't lynch you, or ELSE).

I think both a and b are pretty unlikely, and I think that c is the most probable.

I do think that there is probably magic in this game. Now, what that means. . .we will find out eventually, I guess.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby greenlover » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:14 pm UTC

EBYOP (cause I started this post a loooong time ago, and didn't look at ninja's very well):
Van wrote:I mean, greenlover was told his antimagic blocks medics when they use nanite sprays? How.

Not necessarily. The mod said if they were based off of magic, I could block it. Doc's aren't based off of magic. "Zombie Whisperers", on the other hand. . . sound pretty darn magical.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA THREAD - D1 - CHECK YOUR PMS!

Postby Van » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:09 pm UTC

greenlover wrote:EBYOP (cause I started this post a loooong time ago, and didn't look at ninja's very well):
Van wrote:I mean, greenlover was told his antimagic blocks medics when they use nanite sprays? How.

Not necessarily. The mod said if they were based off of magic, I could block it. Doc's aren't based off of magic. "Zombie Whisperers", on the other hand. . . sound pretty darn magical.
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roband wrote:Van, is "Zombie Whisperer" your role name?
I told BETACONTACT if I needed to ID myself to ALPHATWO, I would claim to be the zombie whisperer (and my cohort has also passed on a secret phrase). So.. I did.
Look, I get the fixation on someone being scum and refusing to do anything else until you're vindicated or proven wrong. Been there, done that, wrote a damn fine book on it. Do you intend to do anything other than foam at the mouth until you lynch me?

Yes, I could be falseclaiming. I could also be Aardvarki's alt, made expressly to play in this game and go "ahha, but you did not know I was Aardvarki all along!" at the end. It's also possible that I'm a sentient cloud of electrons, or that I can telepathically control toasters and VCRs so long as they were manufactured between 1997 and 1999, or that when I get a papercut, I bleed spicy brown mustard. It's also possible that any of those could apply to you, but I'm willing to rule them out because, really, bleeding mustard doesn't make any sense and I'm pretty sure it can't happen. Do you, at any point, intend to do something other than concoct increasingly bizarre and completely baseless scenarios in which I'm actually scum?
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA THREAD - D1 - CHECK YOUR PMS!

Postby greenlover » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:51 pm UTC

Van wrote:Look, I get the fixation on someone being scum and refusing to do anything else until you're vindicated or proven wrong. Been there, done that, wrote a damn fine book on it. Do you intend to do anything other than foam at the mouth until you lynch me?
Ah, my apologies. I had assumed that - since that was what people were calling you - that that was your role name. What is your role name, then?

Van wrote:Do you, at any point, intend to do something other than concoct increasingly bizarre and completely baseless scenarios in which I'm actually scum?
I have little reason to, considering that we seem to be missing each other's arguments pretty much completely.

My entire case against you is built off of two facts:

1) The key part of your role is impossible to verify in any way, shape, or form. That, by itself, is not scummy. However it is very convenient for a scum player to claim, and requires the absolute trust of the town. If that trust is violated, there is no way you can prove that you are not scum, anymore than it was previously possible to prove that you were not town.

2) You were role-blocked twice, and it never had any affect on your powers. Now, of course, you can explain this away. You have already tried. However, all of your explanations require either me not being able to block, not being able to block passive powers, or your not being magical. However, the first two points seem to have to directly contradict what the mod has told me, and the third seems rather silly. However, maybe this question might help clear some things up:

What do you consider to be "magic"?

Anyhow, I do not see how this case is built off of "bizarre and completely baseless scenarios". So, instead of saying that it is, would you mind showing me how it is? :-)
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA THREAD - D1 - CHECK YOUR PMS!

Postby Van » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:49 pm UTC

greenlover wrote:Ah, my apologies. I had assumed that - since that was what people were calling you - that that was your role name. What is your role name, then?
Van wrote:Mostly-Dead Mage, pleased to meet you.


I have an appointment in 11 minutes, and I'm taking that as a no.

The problem with saying that my role is impossible to verify is that it actually is. Both through simple observation eg "hey she just said soandso was rolename and that is also my name gee golly". Is it particularly easy or friendly to verify? Well, you know it really isn't what with requiring people to be dead for me to do so but yes it in fact is verifiable. FURTHERMORE the list of people who could be roleblocked twice in this game and not even know it happened is apparently quite large as in larger than the list of people the reverse would be true for. period.

What is magic?
MAGIC: things that cost Mana, involve blood sacrifices, summon zombies, skeletons, or other stuff, also anything that summons ice, meteors, dinosaurs, or black holes.
NOT MAGIC: Johnson, Christmas, anything requiring a battery or power cable, Gandalf
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA THREAD - D1 - CHECK YOUR PMS!

Postby greenlover » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:25 pm UTC

Van wrote:The problem with saying that my role is impossible to verify is that it actually is. Both through simple observation eg "hey she just said soandso was rolename and that is also my name gee golly". Is it particularly easy or friendly to verify? Well, you know it really isn't what with requiring people to be dead for me to do so but yes it in fact is verifiable.
I. . .don't get this. Are you saying that - because there are multiple of the same role - others can verify whether you are telling the truth or not? Very few of the roles have any real creativity in them (I mean, most of the roles so far revealed are in the flavor.), so its painfully easy for you to simply claim that the deceased had a role that pretty obviously existed, someone else will probably have it as well, and *poof*, your lie was bought. After all, you did claim that Dr Ug was "a Mage". And. . .
Van wrote:FURTHERMORE the list of people who could be roleblocked twice in this game and not even know it happened is apparently quite large as in larger than the list of people the reverse would be true for. period.
what?

Van wrote:What is magic?
MAGIC: things that cost Mana, involve blood sacrifices, summon zombies, skeletons, or other stuff, also anything that summons ice, meteors, dinosaurs, or black holes.
NOT MAGIC: Johnson, Christmas, anything requiring a battery or power cable, Gandalf
Yeah, and I would agree mostly. However, I believe that the central piece of our disagreement is what the mod thinks is magic. So, I figured asking him should help with that a bit.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby Aardvarki » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:26 am UTC

If an ability is described as having to do with magic or anti-magic in your Role PM, it is a magical or anti-magical ability and is treated as such.

Anti-magic stops magical abilities only. If a doctor or cop power functions on magic, anti-magic will stop it. If you have any question whatsoever if one of your abilities is "magic" or not, you can ask me.

I'm going to process end-of-day shortly.
-Aa
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D4 - Don't Delay/Nanite Spray!

Postby Aardvarki » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:37 am UTC

Friends, this is clean-up time and we’re discounting all our silent, electric Nanite Sprays by this much money. Yes, we’re throwing away the blue-book. And remember: every Spray on our lot has been used only as directed.

Once again the group gathered, decided the fate of one of their own, and carried that fate out. Today there were fewer, it seemed every day their numbers dwindled. Would they make it out alive? After days of exploration, no one had even found an exit to the facility. They had a map when they came in, but no one knew where it was anymore. No one could remember. Their wits were wearing thin, and they struggled to make sense of the labyrinthine corridors of the facility. Were they being trapped here by some outside force?

All they knew was that they didn't want to find out; they just wanted to GET out. One more was "set free" today. That's what they started calling it. Fitting, isn't it?


Greenlover has been lynched.

VectorZero has been brought back to life.

It is now Day 5. Five players remain alive. Potential LYLO.

Day 5 will last until Wednesday evening at the longest. 48 hours. All abilities that have a time-delay will now process instantly, as long as they are submitted by tomorrow evening.
-Aa
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D5 - Ring around the rosie...

Postby VectorZero » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:50 am UTC

Well, I've read through that, mostly, and the most obvious flaw was FAOT (whenever I abbreviate his name, I have to remember if he's ForAllOfThis or FreeOfAllThings... wierd) claiming I'd forced him to take the pill. As van has said, I was blocked that day and could not have done so.

Having said that, I have no magic ability, thus I was blocked by an omniblocker, not an anti-mage.

The Dr Ug/me voting for each other thing: coincidence, I think. I'm pretty sure we both figured it would be a way to communicate across threads if it worked.

Van probably knows my ability now, given what I posted before the end of D4.

More news at 11.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D5 - Ring around the rosie...

Postby VectorZero » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:34 am UTC

So, if I understand correctly, Van & mpolo are still alive from the original alpha's, existential_elevator, Elvish Pillager, Mavketl and I are from beta originally and EH is still there?

I believe the roleclaim situation is as follows:

Van is the zombie whisperer, magic user
mpolo is the scanner dude, ?
e_e: magic blocker, antimage
EP: medic, ?
mav: communicator, magic user
me: no claim yet, no magic
EH: no claim yet, ?

Any issues with this?
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D5 - Ring around the rosie...

Postby Mavketl » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:37 pm UTC

Right, sorry about my absence yesterday. I was superbusy and what with none of my games having any deadlines on that day (... that I knew of :P) I figured it wouldn't be a big deal.

VectorZero: did you voluntarily come over, or randomly because of a tie in votes?

mpolo: Any luck with scanner results recently? (I'm sorry if you've already said that and I missed it.)

Magic vs Not magic: My cryofreezing is not specified as magical, my contact ability is magical. I think the mod's "if it says it's magical, it is, if it doesn't say it's magical, it isn't" reply is completely clear, so people, stop claiming to be ignorant about your own abilities' magicalness.

So I've been reading back a little, and I never noticed this:
e_e wrote:when I passed into this thread I crossed Lataro
What's up with that?


Elvish_Pillager wrote:What is there to trust about e_e or VZ? If you have reasons for that, it's probably better to detail them now than it is to wait until after you're completely dead.

So, to clarify a little on why I (still) suspect Van and why I trust e_e and VZ:
1) I don't believe we have only one scum left. Only scum would benefit from trying to make everyone believe we're all townies in this thread.
2) greenlover makes (... made) a good point: rolecopping dead people is something fakeable. Enough people have claimed their rolename that you could use a few of those and/or make some vague ones up for it to be pretty damn easy.
3) When you contacted me on D1 and I asked too many questions, you shut down that entire line of conversation in a pretty clever way. It made me feel like you didn't trust me and my first response was to prove that I was trustworthy by talking more and providing more information. Only later, when I was rehashing this game in my head (I'm very bad at falling asleep and mafia games are perfect food for thought during those hours DON'T JUDGE ME), I figured that your unwillingness to be open with me made me focus on proving myself instead of doubting you.
And why would you use your one-shot communication attempt on someone D1 and then not be willing to exchange much? I mean, you already knew everything that was happening in BETA, so it's not like you needed information. Why not wait until a later day, when you could contact a confirmed or nearly-confirmed townie and tell them everything they want to know? If you are town, you want to use that private communication to be able to be more open with each other than in public - you can exchange information that scum shouldn't know.
My back-and-forth messages with everyone else I talked to were characterized by that eagerness to share. It is also why I trust Lataro (when he was still alive), existential_elevator and VectorZero so much - they told me whatever I wanted to know (and I tried to return the favour) and if they are lying scum then they have set up some pretty intricate lies. It would be a lot easier to just send me fewer messages and volunteer less information.

(Also it would be really nice if you'd stop accusing anyone who voices suspicion of you of being completely unreasonable and, ehm, "concoct[ing] increasingly bizarre and completely baseless scenarios".)
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D5 - Ring around the rosie...

Postby existential_elevator » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:45 pm UTC

Mavketl wrote:
e_e wrote:when I passed into this thread I crossed Lataro
What's up with that?
Yeah, in my PM it said I had moved into ALPHA and that I saw Lataro as I moved out. It said that Lataro was town and also gave me his role-name - "Spirit Medium".

You raise some good points about Van, Mav,* and I am interested to see the response.

*you're almost the same spelled backwards!
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D5 - Ring around the rosie...

Postby Elvish Pillager » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:57 pm UTC

Aardvarki, could you update the 'living players' entry in the OP? You see, I'm afraid I...

*dies*
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D5 - Ring around the rosie...

Postby VectorZero » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:49 pm UTC

Mavketl wrote:VectorZero: did you voluntarily come over, or randomly because of a tie in votes?
I didn't have a particular reason to stay.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D5 - Ring around the rosie...

Postby Mavketl » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:50 pm UTC

VectorZero wrote:
Mavketl wrote:VectorZero: did you voluntarily come over, or randomly because of a tie in votes?
I didn't have a particular reason to stay.
You might have had a particular reason to send ElectricHaze to a place he can actually die, though.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D5 - Ring around the rosie...

Postby VectorZero » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:52 pm UTC

*shrug*

I don't think he's evil.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D5 - Ring around the rosie...

Postby Mavketl » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:54 pm UTC

I kind of assumed because of the "he roleblocked me and lied about it" issue earlier. My mistake, I guess?
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D5 - Ring around the rosie...

Postby VectorZero » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:55 pm UTC

well, I don't really think so, since he didn't roleblock me yesterday.
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Re: [TM] Secret Mafia - ALPHA D5 - Ring around the rosie...

Postby Mavketl » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:58 pm UTC

VectorZero wrote:well, I don't really think so, since he didn't roleblock me yesterday.
If he were evil, wouldn't it be kind of super-obvious to roleblock you if he's the only other person there? :P
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