Xeio wrote:I did hear lots of people say the first mission was impossible after a few levels, but I guess it's good I did that one first (and shortly thereafter deviated from the story for 100 or so hours... <_<)
Yeah, if you do it first the guards are actually able to help (i.e. almost complete it themselves), and you can progress reasonably. If you wait, the guards get chewed alive and it's pretty dang tough.
I abandoned my first Oblivion char because of the monster leveling, and because the treasure was allocated so poorly. I spent most of my time closing gates (i.e. getting enchantments) and exploring Ayleid ruins (i.e. getting... those stones and not much else), and then realized I was woefully undergeared and I ought to fight some bandits. Who generally killed me, because they had comparable stats and better gear. Other chars did better, for various reasons.
So, I really enjoy the end of the trailer- I wonder if the music is going to be more operatic (or at least more vocal) this time around? Checking out the Oblivion Trailer, I also note that their trailers have gotten a lot better in 4 years. The Morrowind Trailer, while I love the theme music, isn't that good either.
Is it wrong that I almost cried because of that Morrowind Trailer? I really have no idea why...
And at least those trailers showed gameplay
I can't wait till February!
Spambot5546 wrote:Well...who used it? I'd sleep next to Felicia Day's used bacon.
SexyTalon wrote:What's a decent RPG? In the past few years, there's been The Witcher, Dragon Age, Mass Effect 1 & 2, Two Worlds, the Fable series, Gothic 4 just came out.... I'm just trying to figure out what your metric for Decent versus Not is.
It's a very tangled statement, but my main point was that the industry is suffocating innovation. For all the genres that it affects, I think it hurts RPGs the most. Generally, a predictable story is a bad story. By story, I mean the combined story elements as it pertains to a game -- visuals, sounds, characters, setting, and etc. For instance, a game can have poor character development but an awesome plot to make up for it. Then you need to add in gameplay (which also breaks down into performance, interface, and etc) to determine if it's a good RPG. An RPG with an excellent story but bad gameplay: Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. An RPG with a bad story but excellent gameplay: Diablo. Mixture of both being mediocre: The Witcher. Mixture of both being good: Dragon Age.
I tend to lean more towards the story being more important in an RPG. I don't feel like the gameplay of most RPGs is worth the time to play unless there's an immersive and meaningful purpose underneath. So, things like staple fetch and kill quests will make me quickly lose interest (and now that I think about it, the quest system in every RPG is becoming tiring as well). As the industry has turned more and more into a machine, I feel mainstream RPGs have went downhill. Generic fantasy is the safest way to return an investment. Only companies with a lot of credibility (Bioware) or with a lot of money (Bethesda) can take a risk with RPGs anymore, and I almost feel like that very risk is necessary for an RPG to be good. Which is unlike an FPS, where you only need a few cool ideas and good execution to make an excellent game (Halo).
SexyTalon wrote:It's basically them admitting publicly "We're working on TES5. It's called Skyrim. No guessing on where it takes place."
Definitely. It kind of makes the trailer pointless. I much prefer the Oblivion and Morrowind trailers because they focus on the most visual and arguably the most important character in each game, Tamriel. Maybe they weren't quite ready to show off Skyrim in time for VGA.
SirBryghtside wrote:And at least those trailers showed gameplay
I can't wait till February!
... November?
Though, this is more of a teaser trailer.
No, February. That's when screenshots etc. are released in magazines
psion wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:It's basically them admitting publicly "We're working on TES5. It's called Skyrim. No guessing on where it takes place."
Definitely. It kind of makes the trailer pointless. I much prefer the Oblivion and Morrowind trailers because they focus on the most visual and arguably the most important character in each game, Tamriel. Maybe they weren't quite ready to show off Skyrim in time for VGA.
They kept saying they were ready to show it beforehand, though... I'm not sure. And they've said that February will be the first time any new info comes up
Spambot5546 wrote:Well...who used it? I'd sleep next to Felicia Day's used bacon.
Oblivion, the leveling system was terrible, but once i was able to make enchanted items and got enough together to have 100% cloak (or whatever they called it, it has been a long time since i played) then the game was almost enjoyable. spellcaster walkin around invisible with a knife sticking things until they died.
got about half way through the main story, then learned of Mods. i don't think i proceeded further after that, sepnt months playing everybodies new mod, stupid god weapons, new areas, new armor, the whole bit i got the expantion for the island, and never played it. at some random point i completly lost intrest.
hopefully they have learned and maybe, just maybe they will get off their high horses and not make mods more difficult their DLC was crap i got better Mods from 12 yr olds
if nothing else they need to make the faces less fugly.
Shivahn wrote:I don't know if that's a fair criticism of this game's plot in particular. Most games already have somewhat predetermined storylines. It's rare that any game results in protagonist failure.
Of course, but in the respect of an open-ended RPG, it's a pretty poor first step to basically say "This new evil thing that came from nowhere for no reason is going to do some bad things, and there's this good guy that will kill said evil thing because he is good." Lazy stuff.
Especially considering that you could do literally anything you wanted to in Morrowind, you weren't railroaded. The plot was basically "you're a reincarnated guy who once did some things, and there's half a dozen groups, all of whom expect/want you to do things based on the fact of your reincarnation, but it's your choice whether you do any of those things anyway." It was never handed down to you from on high that the "correct" ending is rejection of the prophecy and the defeat of Dagoth Ur.
Take me, for example. As I first began uncovering the main plot (around my eightieth game hour), I decided that I was sympathetic to Dagoth Ur and was going to systematically kill Almalexia, Sotha Sil and Vivec (in that order) for
Spoiler:
their betrayal, then kill all non-Dunmer in the whole of Morrowind, fulfilling the prophecy to the letter. Unfortunately, I didn't know that neither Almalexia nor Sotha Sil appear in Morrowind (but they do appear in the expansions) and I wanted to finish the main story of Morrowind before installing any of the expansions, so my plan took no small amount of finagling and reworking, but I was ultimately able to accomplish my goal -- I decided how the plot concluded, and when and where it concluded.
FYI, for any fellow Morrowind geeks, the reason I chose to kill Almalexia, Sotha Sil and Vivec was because they betrayed me and Dagoth Ur ("loyal Dagoth Ur"). Whatever happened after that, they were traitors, and I cannot suffer a traitor to live. The reason I chose to kill them in that specific order was, well, when I was Indorin Nerevar, Almalexia was my queen, so even though she betrayed me, technically, I was under her servitude, so I hold her least responsible for her betrayal. I killed her swiftly, before she could react; a merciful death. Sotha Sil was my master, so even though he betrayed me, I was indebted to him for my training, so he was next-least responsible for his betrayal. I killed him in open combat, student defeating master; an honorable death. But Vivec?
Vivec and I were equals. We were allies. We were like brothers. His betrayal was absolutely unforgivable. That's why I chose to kill him last; to make him watch. Not only last of the three; oh no. After killing Almalexia and Sotha Sil, I proceeded to kill all non-Dunmer in Morrowind, starting with that old fool Caius Cosades who thought he could manipulate me for that bastard king Uriel Septim and his Imperial Legion, then moving from city to city, like a plauge, I killed, I slew, I murdered every last Outlander who stained the shores of my homeland. And all the while, Vivec watched me from his sanctum in the city that bears his name. All two-hundred plus game hours he watched me slowly gain godlike power, then begin my march of death. Then I finally, finally went for Vivec himself.
I killed him slowly; a traitor's death.
EmptySet wrote:
poxic wrote:I hope Skyrim isn't a hellaboring snowscape like the last expansion to Morrowind was. I was hoping rather for a visit southward, like Elsweyr or Valenwood.
I wanted Elsweyr, too. It seems interesting. There are several different kinds of landscape, so you get a change of scenery, and it has lots of different factions and intrigue. But Bethesda probably don't want to spend money creating assets for all the different types of Khajiit and then have to explain the freaky Lunar Lattice thing. Black Marsh might also have been interesting - maybe we could finally find out what the spork is up with the Hist? - and there have been mutterings that something was going to happen there for the last two games, but apparently that's a no-go as well. I guess Vikings fighting dragons is easier to sell to Joe Random than strange races of beastfolk...
I don't think it's at all difficult to sell beastfolk to Joe Random. Sentient mushrooms, on the other hand...
They've been harping on about the friggin' Akavir since before Morrowind. If Skyrim is all dragon-ey, this would be the perfect time to introduce them.
SecondTaIon wrote:What's a decent RPG? In the past few years, there's been The Witcher, Dragon Age, Mass Effect 1 & 2, Two Worlds, the Fable series, Gothic 4 just came out.... I'm just trying to figure out what your metric for Decent versus Not is. Two Worlds was a pretty shitty game, yes, but it had a couple of interesting ideas on inventory management and upgrading equipment and so on. While I haven't beaten it, Dragon Age so far has been pretty good.
But yeah, looking at an Elder Scrolls game and expecting a gripping story is like looking at... I don't know, Grand Theft Auto and expecting a seamless blend of sandbox dicking around and story where the thousands of cops you slaughter and the millions in your bankroll are commented upon by the NPCs in the story clips, and there's never a single mention of your character hurting for money as you have millions of dollars, mostly from running people over or delivering pizzas or what the hell ever. Bethesda is pretty good at setting up a world, pretty.. mediocre at creating an interesting story to run in the middle of it.
Have you ever played Morrowind? Bethesda sure has been churning out a lot of mediocrity lately, but it's been selling, and of course, you can't fault a gaming company for publishing the games that make them the most money. But it's not that Bethesda is incapable of telling a decent story (not that story is really a main selling point of Western-style RPGs), it's just that they're choosing not to for the sake of profit. They can come up with a good story, all right. The question is, will they?
The answer is "probably not," but I still have hope.
SecondTaIon wrote:That's.. half of what I'm afraid of. They listened too closely to the fans for Oblivion, and took out the Morrowind approach of "And.. you're here! Go talk to this guy, I guess. Whatever." of Main Story and the Quest approach of "Go to this crypt. It's to the west, more or less. Maybe a little south." when talking about a crypt right outside of town or six miles away and replaced it with a giant hand holding "You need to go talk to This Man at This Place located on This Road and to help, we're putting a marker on his goddamn head that you can see anywhere in the game world, even if the guy happens to be at the bottom of a hidden dungeon and you shouldn't even be aware there's a guy there in the first place, since the quest was just to Investigate The Ruins"
So.. yeah, listening to the fans sometimes makes the game.... kinda silly.
Heh. Practically every quest in Morrowind took four or five times as long as I'd have thought it would because there was no metagaming to show you where to go for each quest; you had to figure it out yourself, and the people of Morrowind are friggin terrible at giving directions. But it was okay, because during that time, I ended up stumbling into more quests, and tomes and caverns and more.
God, imagine a 100% speedrun of Morrowind. "Whoa, 72:38:19! That's faaaast."
King Author wrote:FYI, for any fellow Morrowind geeks,
Spoiler:
the reason I chose to kill Almalexia, Sotha Sil and Vivec was because they betrayed me and Dagoth Ur ("loyal Dagoth Ur").
Eh?
I believe that can be explained as "Spoilers, Dude"
King Author wrote:Have you ever played Morrowind? Bethesda sure has been churning out a lot of mediocrity lately, but it's been selling, and of course, you can't fault a gaming company for publishing the games that make them the most money. But it's not that Bethesda is incapable of telling a decent story (not that story is really a main selling point of Western-style RPGs), it's just that they're choosing not to for the sake of profit. They can come up with a good story, all right. The question is, will they?
The answer is "probably not," but I still have hope.
Yeah. And as much as I enjoy the game, the basic story is... not really original, and not that great.
Spoiler:
"You" and four allies fenagled some ancient artifacts to become Gods, "You" said to not do it, the other four did it anyway after they killed you (they being an imprecise number of your allies) and later still demonized one of the four remaining. Now, many centuries later, you (who may or may not actually be the reincarnation of the dead one) pop in to... take down the other, because double-crossed or not, he's kind of a huge dick.
It's great that it's kinda ambiguous, but why does it always have to be about Saving The Universe? Why not just making a lasting peace between the major religions? Why not one where you forgive your allies and have them reconcile and.. the end. That's the point of the game. To make the four realize they're all being giant dicks. Something that even with a fairly customizable character is still very personal and specific to you?
I mean.. I don't even remember the point of Arena, and Daggerfall was basically a 200 hour fetch quest. Morrowind was about getting ancient artifacts to stop the Big Bad, which is a song and dance we've seen countless times before, and Oblivion was essentially the same, except you didn't even get to stop the big bad yourself.... which was kinda nice, for a change. I'm so accustomed to such things *not* working that when it actually worked I was strangely surprised.
King Author wrote:God, imagine a 100% speedrun of Morrowind. "Whoa, 72:38:19! That's faaaast."
I've seen speedruns for the main story, they are fast, like 10-20 minutes or something. Also involving jumping half the continent using those scrolls you find off that guy that falls out of the sky.
Oh yeah, speedruns are easy. All you have to do is abuse Alchemy to get your stats up to an ungodly level, which doesn't take long if you're dexterous, then jump into the center of Red Mountain and kill Dagoth Ur -- cue end credits. But I said 100% speedrun -- doing every single quest. Is it wrong that imagining the logistics of planning out such a speedrun gives me sort of a boner?
So, back to the point.... Kitty people and Lizard Faces - Booted or not this time around? Will they be able to wear normal helmets? Tails for everyone?
What about cloaks? Think they'll get those straightened out?
.. actually I didn't even think of them cutting the races, I meant footwear.. but yeah, they could just cut them too. Gah, I hope not. But maybe they'll have Ranger Clocks in the game.. that'd be sweet. "Is it time to Hunt or Track? Oh, it's only half past Archery"
psion wrote:Look on the bright side. It'd clear up a couple of their nine voice actors to maybe do an Orc or Dunmer voice.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Oblivion would have been better if they'd had Patrick Stewart voice everyone, and had their other voice actors do the emperor.
Nah, Linda Carter was a good fit for a female Orc. Not so much for a female Nord and whatnot, but her upper-class, ultra-privileged manner worked well for one of a race that can pretty much kick any kind of ass she feels like, anytime.
Similar thing for the guy that did the male versions. His Nords were totally believable, but not so much his Orcs. They weren't as grating as Carter's Nords, though, at least for me.
Now Sean Bean was an awesome Martin. I found myself digging up his film roles and going "oh yeah, he was that guy, and that guy, and they were all good!" He took an overwrought, overly stuffy script and made it listenable, believable.
I wasn't in love with the fellow who did the male elves, kind of liked the male and female Redguards, and neither liked nor disliked the Argonian and Khajiit voices. Stewart did a pretty damn good job of the emperor, again making the stilted and unrealistic script sound almost believable.
/ok i'm done opinioning
TEAM SHIVAHN Pretty much the best team ever
Yeah, 25,000 politicians is probably too much so it's best to keep it at 3. --Thesh
SexyTalon wrote:.. actually I didn't even think of them cutting the races, I meant footwear.. but yeah, they could just cut them too. Gah, I hope not.
I'm pretty sure they'll be more or less the same as Oblivion. The most likely change would be making them a little more anthropomorphic, and maybe splitting the Khajiit/Argonian voices again if they decide to hire more than half a dozen voice actors.
King Author wrote:FYI, for any fellow Morrowind geeks,
Spoiler:
the reason I chose to kill Almalexia, Sotha Sil and Vivec was because they betrayed me and Dagoth Ur ("loyal Dagoth Ur").
Eh?
If you don't get into the lore (reading all the ridiculous numbers of books lying around) you might miss it. This is a major spoiler, of course (though if you do the main quests without doing any sidequests, you'll find this out within an hour or two of playing).
Spoiler:
As I recall (it's been awhile), back during the time of Indoril Nerevar, when Morrowind was called Resdayn and was not ruled by the kingship of Uriel Septim but by the Dwemer and the Chimer (Nerevar et. al. were Chimer before being cursed into the species we now know as Dunmer), the two had a falling out and a great battle took place on the summit of Red Mountain. The Chimer, lead by Nerevar, his queen Almalexia, his master Sotha Sil and his foremost generals Vivec and Dagoth Ur, were having a hard time because the Dwemer were using a powerful artifact, hidden deep in the heart of Red Mountain, to make themselves immortal. Nerevar hatched a plan -- he and his most loyal servant, Dagoth Ur, would sneak into the heart of Red Mountain and destroy the infernal artifact while the Tribunal (Almalexia, Sotha Sil and Vivec) would command the Chimer forces, drawing the Dwemer away from their mountain-top fortress.
The plan worked, Nerevar and Dagoth Ur made it into the chamber housing the artifact and disabled it, but Nerevar was mortally wounded fighting the king of the Dwemer. As he lay there dying, Dagoth Ur, loyal Dagoth Ur, knelt down to Nerevar and asked what he should do, if he should destroy the infernal artifact so it could never be used for evil again. Nerevar agreed that this was the best course of action, but wanted to seek council from his Tribunal first. So Nerevar commanded Dagoth Ur to stay in Red Mountain and guard the artifact until he returned and decided what to do. Nerevar went out of Red Mountain and found his Tribunal, victorious over the Dwemer, who had simply disappeared when the artifact giving them immortality was disabled.
Nerevar felt sure that the Tribunal would advise him to destroy the hated artifact, but unlike pure Indoril Nerevar, the Tribunal were greedy. They wanted to use the artifact to give themselves immortality and take over the world. Nerevar, still broken and weak from his fight, scolded them for their evil-mindedness, and so they murdered their weakened king on the spot.
The Tribunal then went into the center of Red Mountain with the intention of using the artifact to make themselves immortal. Little did they expect to encounter Dagoth Ur, loyal Dagoth Ur, faithfully obeying Nerevar's command to stay and protect the artifact. The Tribunal confronted him, trying to activate the artifact for themselves, but he wouldn't let them; his orders were to protect it until Nerevar returned. A fight broke out and good, loyal Dagoth Ur was defeated and thought dead. The Tribunal then made themselves as gods, but not before a real god, Azura, incensed by their foul deeds and unforgivable betrayal, cursed them and their entire race, turning them into the ugly, ash-skinned, red-eyed Dunmer.
Naturally, the Tribunal, which still exists in Morrowind at the time of the game, deny this story, calling it lies and heresy. They've even made Dagoth Ur the devil of their religion. I think Bethesda intended you to come to the same conclusion, but I didn't. I believed that story no matter what anybody else, least of all Vivec himself, said. To me, the Tribunal are traitors of noble Indoril Nerevar and loyal Dagoth Ur. I went into Red Mountain not intending to slay a demon, but to finally, at long last, relieve my most faithful servant of his eras-long watch over the artifact that inspired our betrayal at the hands of our friends.
psion wrote:
King Author wrote:God, imagine a 100% speedrun of Morrowind. "Whoa, 72:38:19! That's faaaast."
What could possibly be considered 100%?
I already said, all quests completed, marked and unmarked. One might also stipulate that you must collect all unique, named items (like the Sword of White Woe and the Shoes of Blinding Speed).
SecondTaIon wrote:I believe that can be explained as "Spoilers, Dude"
Why? The names of the Tribunal are available freely throughout the game. Plus, once I found out that the Tribunal is physical, they're actualy people, and that Vivec is alive and can be found in his city, I automatically assumed all the members of the Tribunal could be found and interacted with. Didn't everyone else?
SecondTaIon wrote:Yeah. And as much as I enjoy the game, the basic story is... not really original, and not that great.
Spoiler:
"You" and four allies fenagled some ancient artifacts to become Gods, "You" said to not do it, the other four did it anyway after they killed you (they being an imprecise number of your allies) and later still demonized one of the four remaining. Now, many centuries later, you (who may or may not actually be the reincarnation of the dead one) pop in to... take down the other, because double-crossed or not, he's kind of a huge dick.
It's great that it's kinda ambiguous, but why does it always have to be about Saving The Universe? Why not just making a lasting peace between the major religions? Why not one where you forgive your allies and have them reconcile and.. the end. That's the point of the game. To make the four realize they're all being giant dicks. Something that even with a fairly customizable character is still very personal and specific to you?
I mean.. I don't even remember the point of Arena, and Daggerfall was basically a 200 hour fetch quest. Morrowind was about getting ancient artifacts to stop the Big Bad, which is a song and dance we've seen countless times before, and Oblivion was essentially the same, except you didn't even get to stop the big bad yourself.... which was kinda nice, for a change. I'm so accustomed to such things *not* working that when it actually worked I was strangely surprised.
You said interesting, not original. You said "Bethesda can't really tell an interesting story." You never said original until just now. Though personally I did find it rather original, too. Most RPGs, especially western RPGs, have rather black-and-white morality and the main antagonist is unquestionably an evil dude who you need to put down. Sometimes he's given a tragic backstory or something, but I yawn at that sort of stuff. Plus, having never played a game before Morrowind and thus being unfamiliar with the lore, I thought it was really cool how the Tribunal were actual, normal people who became gods. Originally, when I heard of them, I thought they were actual gods, like spirit beings that perhaps had a hand in the creation of the universe. When it became clear that not only were they mortal, but
Spoiler:
I was once among their ranks, and especially when it became clear that the Dagoth Ur - who's referred to by many NPCs in-game as if he's your stereotypical being of pure evilness - was among our ranks,
I thought they did a pretty good job of coming up with fairly original circumstances, not to mention completely averting any mundane, black-and-white sense of "here's the good guys, here's the bad guys." A player can decide for themselves; do they think Dagoth Ur is the villain, or is that title better applied to the Tribunal?
Before you say it yes, most Western RPGs now offer the player the chance to follow a good path and an evil path, but that's still simplistic, black-and-white morality. If you choose the evil path, you have an evil ending where you overthrow the forces of good. If you choose the good path, you have a good ending where you defeat a great evil. In Morrowind, it's not that you can choose evil and side with Dagoth Ur or choose good and side with the Tribunal, it's that, depending on your view, either one could be considered evil. Or both of them. Or even neither of them. It's not "here's good, here's evil, pick a side" it's, "here's this dude who did X, Y and Z, here's these dudes and one lady who did M, N and P, now do whatever you want about it."
I strongly suspect psion knows all that. I imagine he is more confused that you had decided to kill Sotha Sil, who is already dead when you start the game (though you don't know that until your last meeting with Almalexia).
Motivation is when your dreams put on work clothes. -- Ben Franklin
Avatar from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, owned by Hasbro.
I assumed you went ahead and mentioned Sotha Sil as a way of covering up the fact that it's impossible to kill him in the game... 'cause he's already dead.
But yeah, the main quest story of Morrowind just isn't that interesting. What interested me more is the wandering around, finding some random mausoleum, finding some random dead person in there, looting the place, six hours later wandering through a town halfway on the other side of the island and finding a diary in an empty house mentioning how they were going to go tomb raiding and hope it all works out and putting two and two together to realize I'm in the dead person's house, and other such little things you only pick up if you're reading everything, or the little love triangles and so on. Basically, the world building parts.
Better integration of the main story and the expansions would have been nice too. For example, the Tribunal Expansion ... kinda isn't integrated well. At all. Why?
Spoiler:
I took out Amalexia who was accusing me of destroying the Heart of Lokan or whatever and super pissed that I'd taken her godhood from her..... when I hadn't even figured out that I needed Wraithguard yet. So yeah, I'm suddenly being called the Nevarine by her, and screeched at that I'd done a horrible thing that.. hadn't happened yet, by my hand or anyone else's. Good job, game! Still, Mournhold was nice, the main story there... not so much
It basically boils down to I find their micro stories, told via sidequest or faction quests, to be far more interesting and engaging than their main story. It's.. kind of a problem that they've had for years.
I strongly suspect psion knows all that. I imagine he is more confused that you had decided to kill Sotha Sil, who is already dead when you start the game (though you don't know that until your last meeting with Almalexia).
Vengeance cares nothing for death. When I first heard of Vivec, I wasn't sure if
Spoiler:
he was really alive behind that sealed door, or if the Ordinators were using his supposed presence as an excuse to keep the city in a constant state of military policing.
Either way, I was prepared to use console commands to summon the bastard to my face so I could kill him. There's a
Spoiler:
Sotha Sil model in-game, so I console-commanded it up and killed it. Or wait, did it have no stats and I had to use a mod? I was in and out of the TES so friggin' often, I can barely remember what was a normal part of the game and what was me messing with it or downloading stuff.
Which is half the fun of a game like Morrowind, of course.
SecondTaIon wrote:Hence, "Spoilers, dude" as...
Spoiler:
I assumed you went ahead and mentioned Sotha Sil as a way of covering up the fact that it's impossible to kill him in the game... 'cause he's already dead.
Remember I said it took quite a bit of finagling? I had to use a few mods.
SecondTaIon wrote:[snip so I don't have to bother with manually re-spoilering that text as I copy-paste it, though this probably took longer] It basically boils down to I find their micro stories, told via sidequest or faction quests, to be far more interesting and engaging than their main story. It's.. kind of a problem that they've had for years.
That's what hooks most people, all the detail. I think it's the reincarnation element that draws me into the main story so much, as well. Also the loyalty aspect (which is almost solely why I sided with Dagoth Ur). Themes like that draw me in.
The dwemer didn't disappear because the enchantments on the heart were dispelled. They disappeared because Kagrenac was trying to achieve godhood and failed.(They became the skin of the Numidium, they were trying to become a godlike being.)
And you don't have to interpret the PC of Morrowind as
Spoiler:
being Nerevar reborn. At no point in the game is that necessary. Azura saw a chance to get revenge against the Tribunal and used it. At the expense of the rest of the dunmer.(Though Ur did need to be stopped, severing the heart did doom Vvardenfell and most of mainland Morrowind. Partly because Vivec is also a dick.)
Cecilff2 wrote:At no point in the game is that necessary. Azura saw a chance to get revenge against the Tribunal and used it.
Spoiler:
Only if you think Azura meddled with the enchantment on Moon-And-Star to get rid of the Nerevar-only aspect. Of course, you could probably run in-game tests (sell it to a ringless merchant) to demonstrate that it doesn't actually have that property.
Motivation is when your dreams put on work clothes. -- Ben Franklin
Avatar from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, owned by Hasbro.
Cecilff2 wrote:At no point in the game is that necessary. Azura saw a chance to get revenge against the Tribunal and used it.
Spoiler:
Only if you think Azura meddled with the enchantment on Moon-And-Star to get rid of the Nerevar-only aspect. Of course, you could probably run in-game tests (sell it to a ringless merchant) to demonstrate that it doesn't actually have that property.
Spoiler:
I don't recall but did any of the ghosts around Moon-and-Star actually die from putting on the ring? I thought the whole "kills anyone except Nerevar" was more of an unsubstantiated legend.
Cecilff2 wrote:At no point in the game is that necessary. Azura saw a chance to get revenge against the Tribunal and used it.
Spoiler:
Only if you think Azura meddled with the enchantment on Moon-And-Star to get rid of the Nerevar-only aspect. Of course, you could probably run in-game tests (sell it to a ringless merchant) to demonstrate that it doesn't actually have that property.
Spoiler:
I don't recall but did any of the ghosts around Moon-and-Star actually die from putting on the ring? I thought the whole "kills anyone except Nerevar" was more of an unsubstantiated legend.
Exactly.
Spoiler:
Azura has control of the enchantment on the ring(If there even is one), as she was the one to put it on the ring in the first place. None of the failed incarnates were killed by putting on the ring.(I remember one stating that he or she died trying to assault Red Mountain)
Isn't there some rule about spoiler warnings and games over 8 years old? I can't imagine we'd spoil it for anyone who couldn't wear our rose-colored glasses. Even if a modern gamer could get past the ugly graphics, all the reading and the *WHIFFWHIFF* combat system would pose a problem.
4. Spoiler Your Plot Elements. Unless the title of the thread has the word Spoilers in it, I fully expect you to use the spoiler tags to hide plot elements or solutions to game puzzles. Let's take Planescape: Torment for example. Talking about Nordrom is fine. Discussing what he is, how he talks, his attacks and so on.. perfectly fine. Spelling out how to get him in your party.. if you're describing the exact actions, you need a spoiler. If you just say "He's in the maze".. that's fine. Discussing anything that happens when you go to the Shadow Dimension needs to be in spoilers. Because.. that's basically the last stage of the game, and crazy crap happens there that might otherwise ruin one's enjoyment of the game.
On the outside chance you don't know how to spoil anything.. you type the word spoiler in between brackets [] followed by the text you want hidden, followed by /spoiler in brackets []
Code: Select all
Spoiler:
This is a spoiler of something important
becomes Spoiler: This is a spoiler of something important
If you see something that needs to be put in spoiler tags, report the post and, in the comments field, please tell me what needs to be spoiled. If I've never played the game, I may not understand the importance of a particular element being spoiled.
SexyTalon in something he should have spoilered in the first place wrote:
Spoiler:
"You" and four allies fenagled some ancient artifacts to become Gods, "You" said to not do it, the other four did it anyway after they killed you (they being an imprecise number of your allies) and later still demonized one of the four remaining. Now, many centuries later, you (who may or may not actually be the reincarnation of the dead one) pop in to... take down the other, because double-crossed or not, he's kind of a huge dick.
Cecilff2 wrote:At no point in the game is that necessary. Azura saw a chance to get revenge against the Tribunal and used it.
Spoiler:
Only if you think Azura meddled with the enchantment on Moon-And-Star to get rid of the Nerevar-only aspect. Of course, you could probably run in-game tests (sell it to a ringless merchant) to demonstrate that it doesn't actually have that property.
Spoiler:
I don't recall but did any of the ghosts around Moon-and-Star actually die from putting on the ring? I thought the whole "kills anyone except Nerevar" was more of an unsubstantiated legend.
Exactly.
Spoiler:
Azura has control of the enchantment on the ring(If there even is one), as she was the one to put it on the ring in the first place. None of the failed incarnates were killed by putting on the ring.(I remember one stating that he or she died trying to assault Red Mountain)
Spoiler:
Then what about Wraithguard? I know Vivec trains you, but doesn't that training only work with the Nerevar? (I'm not sure about this one, though)
And then there's the whole Coprus thingy. Remember, Coprus was invented by Ur himself - so there's likely no Azura meddling possible.
Anyway, in Oblivion, they told us that the Nerevarine went on a mission to Akavir.
Where there are dragons.
Ever played Diablo 2?
Spambot5546 wrote:Well...who used it? I'd sleep next to Felicia Day's used bacon.
Cecilff2 wrote:At no point in the game is that necessary. Azura saw a chance to get revenge against the Tribunal and used it.
Spoiler:
Only if you think Azura meddled with the enchantment on Moon-And-Star to get rid of the Nerevar-only aspect. Of course, you could probably run in-game tests (sell it to a ringless merchant) to demonstrate that it doesn't actually have that property.
Spoiler:
I don't recall but did any of the ghosts around Moon-and-Star actually die from putting on the ring? I thought the whole "kills anyone except Nerevar" was more of an unsubstantiated legend.
Exactly.
Spoiler:
Azura has control of the enchantment on the ring(If there even is one), as she was the one to put it on the ring in the first place. None of the failed incarnates were killed by putting on the ring.(I remember one stating that he or she died trying to assault Red Mountain)
Spoiler:
Then what about Wraithguard? I know Vivec trains you, but doesn't that training only work with the Nerevar? (I'm not sure about this one, though)
And then there's the whole Coprus thingy. Remember, Coprus was invented by Ur himself - so there's likely no Azura meddling possible.
Anyway, in Oblivion, they told us that the Nerevarine went on a mission to Akavir.
Where there are dragons.
Ever played Diablo 2?
Spoiler:
The whole Corprus thing is really the only actual indicator that there is something special about your character since Divyath Fyr said everyone else he attempted to cure died from it. I don't remember anything being said about Vivec only being able to show Nerevar how to use Wraithguard.
And the dragons in Akavir aren't technically real dragons, but the tiger demon guys that became dragons in some way. I would think they are more like oriental dragons than western ones.
