xkcd

by **Alpha Omicron** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:32 pm UTC

Since we can always use more hard-core nerdity.

naDevDaq tlhIngan Hol yIjatlh. DaqvamDaq neH jIH jatlh tlhIngan Hol vIHar vIlajHa'.

by **Sir_Elderberry** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:39 pm UTC

You know, I'd love to pick up some very basic Klingon. Just because. Anyone know a good site for this?

by **Alpha Omicron** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:01 pm UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:You know, I'd love to pick up some very basic Klingon. Just because. Anyone know a good site for this?

I don't think there is one. It's something you have to kind of jump into. Learn the phonology first.

by **ZLVT** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:47 pm UTC

How complete a language is Klingon? I've heard that they tried to raise a child on it but the child rejected it due to lack of some pretty essencial words/phrases. I was thinking of trying to boost my nerd points but I have 3 issues:

1) I was never a Star Treck fan (and fear the association...same goes for Star Gate, the star treck of the .com generation) so it'd sort of feel like I were stealing the Treckie-ness from the treckies. Like goign to lengths to understand someone's in-jokes.

2) Klingon will not get you laid. I have heard from women that Klingon is not a turn-on. Quenya (Tengwar), is.

3) Can I hold lengthy conversations in it, or are there only a few phrases I can learn?

by **Alpha Omicron** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:41 pm UTC

ZLVT wrote:How complete a language is Klingon? I've heard that they tried to raise a child on it but the child rejected it due to lack of some pretty essencial words/phrases. I was thinking of trying to boost my nerd points but I have 3 issues:

I'll say "complete enough". The lexicon has about 2000 words, but because it's an agglutinating language, you can do a lot with a few words.
At the time that Dr. Speers' baby was being taught, the lexicon was even smaller. Though was likely not the only issue.

1) I was never a Star Treck fan *snip* so it'd sort of feel like I were stealing the Treckie-ness from the treckies. Like going to lengths to understand someone's in-jokes.

Most of the really good (i.e. fluent) Klingonists weren't/aren't Trek people either.

2) Klingon will not get you laid. I have heard from women that Klingon is not a turn-on. Quenya (Tengwar), is.

True. Lucky me though, I can write Tengwar nearly as well as I can write our Latin alphabet. Quenya is much less complete than Klingon, and so isn't really speakable, aside from pre-constructed phrases found in the literature.

3) Can I hold lengthy conversations in it, or are there only a few phrases I can learn?

Lengthy conversations are perfectly possible.

by **ZLVT** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:18 pm UTC

Sweet, I'll look into it.
How harsh it is? 'Cos I've found that I can add ch kh and dutch g sounds to most other sounds while I pronounce them when I'm angry, so I think if it's a harsh enough language I coudl pull off an impressive growling speech.

by **Alpha Omicron** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:37 pm UTC

ZLVT wrote:Sweet, I'll look into it.
How harsh it is? 'Cos I've found that I can add ch kh and dutch g sounds to most other sounds while I pronounce them when I'm angry, so I think if it's a harsh enough language I could pull off an impressive growling speech.

It has some harsher sounding letters, yes. If you know IPA, it will be helpful.

by **ZLVT** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:48 am UTC

well, I thought I knew IPA, but I'm having issues with [e] and [ɛ]. It said [ɛ] is the sound of the Hungarian 'e' and [e] of our 'é', but that [ɛ] is also the sound of elephant, which is sort of like our 'é'. Evil Evil thing.

by **Alpha Omicron** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:09 am UTC

ZLVT wrote:well, I thought I knew IPA, but I'm having issues with [e] and [ɛ]. It said [ɛ] is the sound of the Hungarian 'e' and [e] of our 'é', but that [ɛ] is also the sound of elephant, which is sort of like our 'é'. Evil Evil thing.

If you speak English the way I do (not likely) then [e] is the name of the letter A, and [ɛ] is the vowel in the name of the letter X.

You only need [ɛ] in Klingon.

by **ZLVT** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:44 am UTC

OFFS! whoever did the wiki got the Hungarian vowels around the wrong way! Sigh, I think I'll go edit that. It all makes sense now.

EDIT: which English do you speak?

by **Alpha Omicron** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:40 pm UTC

ZLVT wrote:OFFS! whoever did the wiki got the Hungarian vowels around the wrong way! Sigh, I think I'll go edit that. It all makes sense now.

EDIT: which English do you speak?

Canadian Standard.

by **ZLVT** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:55 pm UTC

I searched but I found no good sites for Klingon. Only things offering bits and peices. Is there a comprehensive online guide?

by **wisnij** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:36 pm UTC

ZLVT wrote:I searched but I found no good sites for Klingon. Only things offering bits and peices. Is there a comprehensive online guide?

http://www.kli.org/

by **ZLVT** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:43 pm UTC

The postal course I found to be incomplete and not really helpful, and thats the only language help they offer

by **Alpha Omicron** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:28 pm UTC

kli.org is largely abandoned, the KLI isn't really accepting new paying members since they're not doing anything to justify payment, and as far as I can tell, the only things really happening with them are the qep'a'mey.
tl;dr: the KLI kind of sucks right now.

by **ZLVT** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:55 am UTC

but are there any good courses out there then? or should we find speakers to try and make little courses?

by **Alpha Omicron** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:04 pm UTC

ZLVT wrote:but are there any good courses out there then? or should we find speakers to try and make little courses?

There is good stuff online. I don't really remember where anymore. Google it.

by **zyxuvius** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:46 pm UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:You know, I'd love to pick up some very basic Klingon. Just because. Anyone know a good site for this?

I found the best way to learn is actually to buy the Klingon Dictionary. $15 US, best 15 dollars I have ever spent. I take it everywhere I go. The grammar is extremely simple, and I could teach you in a few brief emails if you want. My email address is zyxuvius@gmail.com

by **Sean of the Dead** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:47 pm UTC

I ordered The Klingon Dictionary (had to go used, but still great), and plan to learn the language really well, I love it. :twisted:

Perhaps my partner and I could make a course for it? Since it'd be against the law to post the grammar section from the book. :roll:

by **Alpha Omicron** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:11 am UTC

Sean of the Dead wrote:I ordered The Klingon Dictionary (had to go used, but still great), and plan to learn the language really well, I love it. Perhaps my partner and I could make a course for it? Since it'd be against the law to post the grammar section from the book.

Such courses have existed in the past. The KLI did a course by mail once upon a time.

by **Sean of the Dead** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:35 pm UTC

Alpha Omicron wrote:
Sean of the Dead wrote:I ordered The Klingon Dictionary (had to go used, but still great), and plan to learn the language really well, I love it. Perhaps my partner and I could make a course for it? Since it'd be against the law to post the grammar section from the book.
Such courses have existed in the past. The KLI did a course by mail once upon a time.

Yes, have existed, but there currently is no comprehensive course for learning Klingon. But I doubt we'd ever get to doing it anyways.

by **Sean of the Dead** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:00 pm UTC

wa'Hu' "tlhIngan Hol mu'ghom" vIHev! :twisted:

by **Alpha Omicron** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:35 am UTC

Sean of the Dead wrote:wa'Hu' "tlhIngan Hol mu'ghom" vIHev!

majQa'! yIlaD!

by **tesseraktik** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:57 pm UTC

Regarding a good site for Klingon: You can learn quite a lot by starting off reading Wikipedia's article on the language, and then moving on to the resources at http://klingonska.org/. Start constructing simple sentences, and then start looking for conversations in Klingon online to see how more experienced speakers say stuff.
The Klingon Dictionary by Marc Okrand is still the quintessential source for the language, though. However, if you don't want to study the language so much as familiarize yourself with it, I suggest getting the audio tape "Conversational Klingon" on iTunes. This is also included in Ultralingua's awesome Klingon Language Suite.
tlhIngan Hol DaghojmeH tlhIngan Hol yIlo'! {"In order to learn Klingonese, use it!"}

wa'Hu' qevHomvaD Hamlet SoQ vIjatlhta'. ghIq qev'a'vaD vIjatlhta'.
«Open Mike» wanI' loH 'e' vIQaHta', 'ach much'egh neHpu' pagh. DoghvIpbe'meH chaH, jIDoghqu'law'ta'.
law'choHDI' qev nuvpu', SoQ vImuchqa' 'e' chuplu'ta' puSpu'mo' muQoypu'bogh juppu'. vaj vImuchqa'ta'.

Translation:
Yesterday I spoke Hamlet's speech in front of a small crowd. Then I spoke it in front of a large crowd.
I helped organize an open mike event, but nobody wanted to present themself. So that they would not be afraid to be silly, I consciously appeared to be very silly.
When the crowd people became many, it was suggested hat I re-present the speech because the people who had heard me were few. Thus, I re-presented it.

Alpha Omicron wrote:
Sean of the Dead wrote:wa'Hu' "tlhIngan Hol mu'ghom" vIHev!
majQa'! yIlaD!

jIQochbe'! {I agree!*}

*...or, more literally, "I don't disagree"

by **KFRelic** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:07 am UTC

saSop yintaHqu' ej' saSopHa'
(I will eat you all alive and regurgitate you)

by **Alpha Omicron** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:30 am UTC

KFRelic wrote:saSop yintaHqu' ej' saSopHa'
(I will eat you all alive and regurgitate you)

Should be "SaSop yIntaHqu' 'ej SaSopHa'", and even then, "SaSop yIntaHqu'" doesn't really make any sense. You probably want some kind of "while" clause instead.

by **tesseraktik** » Sat May 01, 2010 10:02 pm UTC

Yay, this thread lives once more!

Alpha Omicron wrote:
KFRelic wrote:saSop yintaHqu' ej' saSopHa'
(I will eat you all alive and regurgitate you)
Should be "SaSop yIntaHqu' 'ej SaSopHa'", and even then, "SaSop yIntaHqu'" doesn't really make any sense. You probably want some kind of "while" clause instead.

Indeed. It's not an entirely easy sentence to translate, but I'd probably go with SuyIntaHvIS SaSop. ghIq SaSopHa'. { While you-(plural) are living I eat you-(plural). And then I un-eat you-(plural). }

Also, since I'm in the process of correcting people for honor and sex, I shall now go after the OP:

Alpha Omicron wrote:Since we can always use more hard-core nerdity.

naDevDaq tlhIngan Hol yIjatlh. DaqvamDaq neH jIH jatlh tlhIngan Hol vIHar vIlajHa'.

naDev {here}, along with the locative nouns pa' {there} and Dat {everywhere}, never takes the -Daq-suffix. It would appear that these are also the only nouns (or at least the only commonly used ones) that do not take the -Daq-suffix. Quick reference to locations in Klingon

As for the second sentence, I'm guessing you mean to say "I will not accept believing that I am the only one who speaks Klingon in this place." However, the word order is a bit off (jIH jatlh tlhIngan Hol means roughly "Klingonese speaks me", and neH follows the word that it modifies), and you need to use 'e' to make a sentence the object of Har, as explained on p. 65-67 in TKD (the section called 6.2.5. Sentences as objects).
Then you end up with something more like DaqvamDaq tlhIngan Hol vIjatlh jIH neH 'e' vIHar 'e' vIlajHa'!
Taking it one step further, I'd say this is an excellent place for the -Qo'-suffix, which denotes refusal: DaqvamDaq tlhIngan Hol vIjatlh jIH neH 'e' vIHarQo'!

tlhIngan Hol yIjatlhtaH! { Continue speaking Klingon! }

by **qurgh** » Wed May 12, 2010 6:52 pm UTC

tlhIngan Hol ghojmoHbogh Daqmey'e' DaSamchugh DaqwIj chu' vIchup:
If you're still looking for sites to help learn tlhIngan Hol, then I'll throw my site into the mix:

http://hol.kag.org

mughom, pab DevwI', paQDI'norghHommey, Qujmey, mu'mey ghojmoHwI', tlhIngan Hol wabmey je ghaj.
It has a searchable dictionary, grammar guide, some lessons on specific topics, some games, flashcards and Klingon audio files.

tesseraktik wrote:Yay, this thread lives once more!
Alpha Omicron wrote:
KFRelic wrote:saSop yintaHqu' ej' saSopHa'
(I will eat you all alive and regurgitate you)
Should be "SaSop yIntaHqu' 'ej SaSopHa'", and even then, "SaSop yIntaHqu'" doesn't really make any sense. You probably want some kind of "while" clause instead.
Indeed. It's not an entirely easy sentence to translate, but I'd probably go with SuyIntaHvIS SaSop. ghIq SaSopHa'. { While you-(plural) are living I eat you-(plural). And then I un-eat you-(plural). }

You could use 'em vomit instead of SopHa' uneat

SuyIntaHvIS SaSop 'ej vaj Sa'em.
While you are alive I will eat you and then I will vomit you

by **tesseraktik** » Wed May 12, 2010 11:08 pm UTC

qurgh! naDev qaleghmo' jIbel!
{ qurgh! I am pleased to see you here! }

tlhIngan 'ampaS «tlhIngan Hol mu'ghom mach»Daq «vomit» mu' tu'lu'be'. pIj mughwI'lIj, te'reS mu' chu' tetlh ghap vIlo' 'e' vIqawnIS.
{ The word "vomit" is not found in Klingonska Akademien's "Small Klingon Dictionary". I must remember to use your translator or ter'eS' list of new words often. }

'ach DungDaq mu'tlheghlIjvaD «ghIq» mu' Dalo' DaneH 'e' vIHar; «vaj» mu' Dalo' DaneHbe'.
{ However, I believe that you want to use ghIq ("and then", "after that", "by then", "subsequently") for your sentence above; you don't want to use vaj ("so", "then", "thus", "in that case"). }

...which reminds me: Another good website for Klingonists is te'reS Klingon Pages, which has a list of new words (newer than the KLI's and KA's new words), analysis of canonical Klingon use, Klingon songs and more.

by **Alpha Omicron** » Sat May 29, 2010 9:16 pm UTC

"bo logh" ghItlhpu''a' qurgh?

by **NoahTheDuke** » Sun May 30, 2010 7:41 pm UTC

For those looking to learn tlhIngan Hol, d'Armond's page is really excellent. Lots of cool programs, such as pojwI', the only word processor made specifically for tlhIngan Hol. pojwI' also has a sweet learning tutorial, which I used frequently when I started.

Noah

p.s. And I know, years ago, there existed a cool flash-card style program designed for tlhIngan. I don't have it anymore, but maybe one of you do?

by **tesseraktik** » Sun May 30, 2010 8:18 pm UTC

NoahTheDuke wrote:p.s. And I know, years ago, there existed a cool flash-card style program designed for tlhIngan. I don't have it anymore, but maybe one of you do?

You're probably thinking of KLIFLASH by te'reS.

I recently learned the founder of Klingonska Akademien will be holding a beginner's course in Stockholm this November; epic win

by **tesseraktik** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:24 pm UTC

Lawrence M. Schoen, the founder of the Klingon Language Institute, has started a new podcast. Its purpose: To teach you Klingon in just five minutes a day!
Click here to listen in!

- - - - - - -

jabbI'ID tlhegh chu''e' chenmoHtaH tlhIngan Hol yejHaD chenmoHwI'. ngoQDaj, tlhIngan Hol DaghojmeH qaStaHvIS vagh tupmey bIHaDlaH.
DaQoymeH Hevam yIghoS!

by **Krankor** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:21 pm UTC

bong Daqvam vItu'. Dat tlhIngan Hol jatlhwI'pu' tu'lu'! ('ach net pIHnIS {{;-) )

Do'Ha', Hab Hoch monbogh qabDu' Quchpu'. vaj "ascii" monwI" vIlo'taH. qay'be'. {{:-)

--HoD Qanqor (HIja', HoD Qanqorvetlh)

by **tesseraktik** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:11 am UTC

HoD Qanqor qaleghn...
*HoD Qanqor leghlaHbe' 'e' tlhoj*
QInmeylIj vIlaDneS!

paqlIj vIghaj. Dajqu'.

by **Mapar** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:59 am UTC

2) Klingon will not get you laid. I have heard from women that Klingon is not a turn-on. Quenya (Tengwar), is.

YESSSSSS!!!!

Ok, on a more on-topic note, I'll get into Klingon as soon as I finish high school (2 months left...), just for nerdity.

by **tesseraktik** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:18 pm UTC

maHvatlh SoQmey vIjeSta'. vItIvbejpu'. cha'logh ghojqa'moHlaw' maHvatlh qaSpa' wej jar.

DISvam SutoqHolom vengDaq qaS Eurocon. jeSbogh tlhIngan Hol jatlhwI'pu' tu'lu''a'.

by **rhetorical** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:08 pm UTC

I realize that this may be necromancy, but I have a translation question.

I'm trying to translate the noun phrase "loyal servant to the true emperor".

I'm not sure which is better:

Using suffix "na' ", meaning "definite".
ta'na' toy'wI' ngebbe'

or

Using verb "teH", "be true", as an adjective:
ta' teH toy'wI' ngebbe'

I couldn't find any word for "be loyal", so I used "ngeb", "be counterfeit", followed by the negation suffix.

by **tesseraktik** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:05 pm UTC

yInqa'!

rhetorical wrote:I realize that this may be necromancy, but I have a translation question.

I've always felt that if a thread is relevant to you, its age shouldn't matter. Especially if the thread is only one page long

rhetorical wrote:I'm trying to translate the noun phrase "loyal servant to the true emperor".

I'm not sure which is better:

Using suffix "na' ", meaning "definite".
ta'na' toy'wI' ngebbe'

or

Using verb "teH", "be true", as an adjective:
ta' teH toy'wI' ngebbe'

I couldn't find any word for "be loyal", so I used "ngeb", "be counterfeit", followed by the negation suffix.

I'd recommend ta'na', since I'm not sure that teH can be used to refer to authenticity; I've don't think it's ever been used in canon, but I've always interpreted it as referring to the truth value of statements.

As for loyal, there is the word matlh, so I'd recommend ta'na' toy'wI' matlh.

Also, not all verbs with the -be' suffix can be used as adjectives; the only suffix that can always be used on adjectives is -qu' (and maybe -Ha'; I have to check that). So, for "the non-counterfeit servant", I'd recommend ngebbe'bogh toy'wI'.

by **rhetorical** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:52 pm UTC

tesseraktik wrote:[snip]

Thanks.

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