The Great Hippo wrote:
GardenGoblin wrote:You missed the point entirely. The point being: Even in 'safe spaces', we run afoul of this kind of behavior.
I thought the point was that no one called out the behavior when it happened?
Yep. And even in so-called 'safe spaces', the behavior isn't always called out and people still feel entitled to act that way in the first place.
When the question asked is "What did the man intend to do?". This can be a relevant question--particularly if we are interested in changing the person's behavior.
Really? I need to second guess why, how, and what when all I want is for it to stop?
Did I fail to communicate this point in my previous post?
No, you communicated quite effectively, it's just you didn't say what you thought you said. You just made the same noise, coming from the same place of privilege, as I've heard a thousand times. The same excuses, the same 'well you should be nicer and take the time to explain why my snatching items out of your hands, treating you like a second class citizen, objectifying you, harassing you, assaulting you, etc...' is wrong.
Why should I have to explain it to you? Do I need to assume you are stupid and incapable of critical thinking skills? Because I really don't think that's the case. [snip]
So why do I need to take time out of my day to kindly and politely explain to you why assuming just because I have a uterus I know how to decorate or am incapable of handling technology or lifting a box is wrong?
Should I assume you are incapable of figuring out why comparing a woman to a dog is offensive and thus be careful to be polite, kind, and soft spoken when telling you that you hurt my feelings? [snip]
Why is it 'important' to listen to the excuses? Would you just prefer I operate on the assumption that all men are mouth-breathing Neanderthals incapable of empathy or rational thought, or would you rather I treat you like a human being responsible for your own actions and capable of observing the world around you?
Feminism is for the benefit of men just as much as it is for the benefit of women. Imagine a world in which no woman ever got mad at you for opening a door because experience had never taught her how condescending chivalry is to her? Imagine a world in which women were comfortable making eye contact with you and perhaps even initializing conversation with you in a public area because she didn't have to risk you being Schrodinger's rapist?
Imagine a world where you could criticize a woman's work without her getting defensive because she had no reason to suspect you were criticizing it based on her chromosomes rather than it's merits. Wouldn't that be great?
As it is, 90% of the time, when a male colleague criticizes my work, I could have a male friend hand him the same work with a masculine name on it and suddenly it would be perfect, awesome, just what was needed, and most importantly, actually examined before being judged. Do you have any idea how many times I've suggested an idea, been shot down, only to have the exact same idea offered moments later by a male and been accepted by all present? I'm fairly confident some of that is happening now, with my posts.
If the only consequence was a daily lecture about its inappropriateness--and I considered it very appropriate--hell yes I would. Just to piss them off; crap, just to argue the point. Just to say 'fuck your noise'.
So, in other words, if I repeatedly tell you not to stare at my breasts when talking to me, you will, just to piss me off? If I repeatedly tell you not to grab items out of my hand because I'm perfectly capable of carrying them myself, you'll continue to do so, just to piss me off? Because YOU consider it appropriate, and to hell with what anyone else thinks?
And therein lies the problem.
Many feel entitled to act in a misogynistic fashion, and so when called out on it, the response isn't to modify their actions, but to pretend the problem is women getting all uppity and it's all these femi-nazi's just looking for offense so to hell with them. And those uppity bitches just need to be put in their place.