American Pie -- End: TOWN WINS!

[ForAllOfThis]

I think this is a no-brainer now, we should be lynching ibarra.

I'm pretty shocked that BN was telling the truth,

Wan't me to hammer, or is there a reason to wait?

[weiyaoli]

No reason to wait now, let's hammer.

[mpolo]

Then hammer it is.

[b]Vote: Ibarra{/b]

[mpolo]

Tag fail (Though I don't SEE the fail…)

Vote: Ibarra

[Krong]

We were singin'
Bye-bye, Miss American Pie.
Drove my Chevy to the levee
But the levee was dry.
And them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye,
Singin' "This'll be the day that I die.
This'll be the day that I die."

Ibarra has been lynched.

Votals
Ibarra (3) - weiyaoli, greenlover, mpolo

Ibarra was Satan, scum.

After a brief wait on the garage door, they pulled in and turned off the motor. Their journey had ended, but the end felt sudden, like an interruption. You almost never heard that song on the radio nowadays; it would be a shame to leave in the middle...

They sat in the dark and listened until the final chord.

Helter Skelter in a summer swelter
The birds flew off with a fallout shelter.
Eight miles high and falling fast --
It landed foul on the grass.
The players tried for a forward pass
With the Jester on the sidelines in a cast.

Now, the half-time air was sweet perfume
While the Sergeants played a marching tune.
We all got up to dance,
Oh, but we never got the chance

'Cause the players tried to take the field.
The marching band refused to yield.
Do you recall what was revealed
The day the music died?

We started singing,
Bye-bye, Miss American Pie.
Drove my Chevy to the levee
But the levee was dry.
And them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye,
Singin' "This'll be the day that I die.
This'll be the day that I die."

Oh, and there we were, all in one place,
A generation lost in space
With no time left to start again.
So come on, Jack, be nimble, Jack be quick --
Jack Flash sat on a candlestick
'Cause fire is the devil's only friend.

Oh, and as I watched him on the stage
My hands were clenched in fists of rage.
No angel born in Hell
Could break that Satan's spell.

And as the flames climbed high into the night
To light the sacrificial rite,
I saw Satan laughing with delight
The day the music died.

He was singing,
Bye-bye, Miss American Pie.
Drove my Chevy to the levee
But the levee was dry.
And them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye,
Singin' "This'll be the day that I die.
This'll be the day that I die."



I met a girl who sang the blues
And I asked her for some happy news,
But she just smiled and turned away.
I went down to the sacred store
Where I'd heard the music years before,
But the man there said the music wouldn't play.

And in the streets the children screamed.
The lovers cried, and the poets dreamed.
But not a word was spoken;
The church bells all were broken.
And the three men I admire most,
The Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost,
They caught the last train for the coast
The day the music died.

And they were singin'...

Bye-bye, Miss American Pie.
Drove my Chevy to the levee
But the levee was dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye,
Singin' "This'll be the day that I die.
This'll be the day that I die."

They were singin',
Bye-bye, Miss American Pie.
Drove my Chevy to the levee
But the levee was dry.
And them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye,
Singin'
"This'll be the day that I die."

GAME OVER

Town wins!
ForAllOfThis wins!
BigNose wins!
Wooy` gets a 2/3 win!

I'll post chat and game actions sometime tomorrow; in the meantime, here's the role PMs and the role preferences that were sent in:

Roles
Preferences

[Krong]

Just a few other comments:

1. None of the following powers were present in the game:
* doctor
* cop capable of confirming scum
* town rolecop
* roleblocker
* lie detector

2. Kudos to Mavketl for naming the entire scum team in her D1 player-by-player analysis post. Kudos also to mpolo, for doing a superb job of spreading townie wine with the daily poll, and for getting me a poll for D1 almost immediately.

3. So none of you Dune players noticed Mavketl and greenlover wound up as masons again?

4. Seems a bit harsh to say it given the town win, but I think this game was a bit unbalanced in favor of scum. Town lynched perfectly, after all, and only 4 people were left at endgame.

Balance-wise, I think I should have done the following:
* Tell tastelikecoke what his ability did instead of making it a mystery
* Not give BigNose a daykill, and consider upping his win threshold to 4
* Make Wooy`'s 2/3 win guaranteed after a book on Marx death, and keep him in game as Town for the other 1/3.
* Give ForAllOfThis a tougher win condition, and one that the recruit would have worked on. (I kinda thought the "if the Bible tells you so" line in the song would make people more suspicious, but apparently I was wrong.)

[cjdrum]

Nuuuuu!

And, I wasn't lying with being the Book on Marx
But I guess you all realised that when Lennon left when I died...

[BigNose]

I was February, Independant, Survivor, but I also had a Public Day-Kill and won when 3 Town died before I did.
This is why I said that is was bad for Town to vote for me, as at the time, I would've killed Greenlover, a confirmed Townie and thus got my win and Town would've been down 2 players. Probably not a losing tactic for Town, but certainly not good.

I did try at the end to hint that as Buddy Holly died on 3rd Feb and that we were in Day 3, that there might be a thought of "The Day the MUSC Died", but it all finished in a flash.

MOD: Yeah I did think that it shouldn't be too hard for me, especially as I had the Day-Kill, as a kill on GL would've made that 3 dead Townies, I would win and leave game.

Good win for Town (and me).

[Ibarra]

My role:
Basically scum that can revive town.

Basically these are the mistakes I made:
1) Claiming my two other roles as Satan and Devil. - My initial intention was to increase the number of possible scum by saying I didn't get it. Truth is I think there was no devil role. I never expected to be attacked in the direction that Mav did. When I posted it, I didn't think through if I had spilled wine or not.

2) I voted for greenlover, but realized that I had to bus FermiumBalloon only after I posted, but I really couldn't access the forums then, so I couldn't do anything.

3) We thought that killing Lataro would be better than killing Mav N1, but that decision backfired. It was cj's idea to kill Lataro. I thought that by killing Mav, we would bring suspicion to ourselves even more. Turns out, not killing her was an even worse decision.

4) I realized that cjdrum was kind of doomed Day 2. Mav was right in saying that I was busing him. Our original plan was to wait until he was close to lynch, then claim cop. I just can't believe he outed Mav and greenlover as masons so casually like that. I expected more of, "I don't want to say their roles."

5) When I killed Mav, I had a choice of reviving her. I had a choice to add another winning condition that she must fulfill in order to be revived. I picked a wrong condition sadly and she declined.

Comments:
This is by war the worst scum game I've ever played, and my first lost as scum.
We also had daychat which makes it even more fail that we lost.
Oh well, Mav you were great town - if there were nominations for best town player, I'd nominate you.

P.S. I'm a "he"

[Ibarra]

Oh and the "town play" I showed, is really my town meta.
Whenever I play town, I play it cautiously. I don't see why it's a scumtell for town to be cautious.
I tried emulating it as scum, but it failed, as you can see.

Note to self: Next time be reckless

[ForAllOfThis]

Not so much reckless. I always see aggression and over-suspcicion of everyone as more townie than most other things.

@Krong: I agree my win condition was a little easy. =)

[Adacore]

I thought that by killing Mav, we would bring suspicion to ourselves even more. Turns out, not killing her was an even worse decision.

Sadly, Mav has the disease known as Amy-itis - she's so incredibly good at townie play that it's almost always the best move to kill her N1, which makes it sucky for her to play as town because she always dies. Conversely, if she's scum and doesn't either get killed on N1 or provide good scum lynch targets by D2, she's instantly suspected and lynched.

It's one of the biggest flaws with the iterated-game meta for mafia, that the best players tend to end up having the worst player experience because they always get killed early.

[Mavketl]

I thought that by killing Mav, we would bring suspicion to ourselves even more. Turns out, not killing her was an even worse decision.

Sadly, Mav has the disease known as Amy-itis - she's so incredibly good at townie play that it's almost always the best move to kill her N1, which makes it sucky for her to play as town because she always dies. Conversely, if she's scum and doesn't either get killed on N1 or provide good scum lynch targets by D2, she's instantly suspected and lynched.

Shush, don't feed the myth. I'm fairly sure this is the first game in which I got the scum team on D1 and even then, it's not like I was convinced I was right or anything... plenty of things could've happened to make me change my mind. I'm not made out of magic (sadly ), this thing is maybe 50% above average scumdar and 50% confirmation bias.

I was aiming for the towniest roles with my selections, and I got mason, so I was superhappy with that. And yeah, nice parallel with Dune.

[mpolo]

Writing poll questions was kind of fun. Ultimately they had little real effect, given that there was no lie detector (I could hope, couldn't I?), but hopefully made the scum squirm a bit.

[tastelikecoke]

Wow, If I didn't ask for a replacement, I could have won as town without making any meaningful posts. I don't know if that's good.

[mpolo]

Balance-wise, I think I should have done the following:
* Give ForAllOfThis a tougher win condition, and one that the recruit would have worked on. (I kinda thought the "if the Bible tells you so" line in the song would make people more suspicious, but apparently I was wrong.)

Or maybe just have someone with a one-shot "kill" that removes God from the game. If he reveals himself to the wrong person, then he loses…

[Ibarra]

Sadly, Mav has the disease known as Amy-itis - she's so incredibly good at townie play that it's almost always the best move to kill her N1, which makes it sucky for her to play as town because she always dies. Conversely, if she's scum and doesn't either get killed on N1 or provide good scum lynch targets by D2, she's instantly suspected and lynched.

It's one of the biggest flaws with the iterated-game meta for mafia, that the best players tend to end up having the worst player experience because they always get killed early.

Duly noted.

Wow, If I didn't ask for a replacement, I could have won as town without making any meaningful posts. I don't know if that's good.

It isn't. IMO town that don't contribute anything should be modkilled.
(I had a bad experience with a confirmed town player doing absolutely nothing except lurk actively)

[Lataro]

Yeah.. I was kinda like, "WTF, why would anyone of killed me? What a mistake, I normally get lynched anyway, jokes on them!"

[ForAllOfThis]

Balance-wise, I think I should have done the following:
* Give ForAllOfThis a tougher win condition, and one that the recruit would have worked on. (I kinda thought the "if the Bible tells you so" line in the song would make people more suspicious, but apparently I was wrong.)

Or maybe just have someone with a one-shot "kill" that removes God from the game. If he reveals himself to the wrong person, then he loses…

I was half expecting Satan to be independent like me with the win condition of ending me, like in the bible.

[cjdrum]

Yeah.. I was kinda like, "WTF, why would anyone of killed me? What a mistake, I normally get lynched anyway, jokes on them!"

Ah, you should've suspected seething was up when there were people who would kill others. It's a bit wine-ish, really - you know the scum aren't going to be obvious, so they pick a person that nobody really dislikes.
Although, if scum wasn't me, I'd be killing Mav to put the blame on cjdrum.

But, Krong! Awesome game! Hope to play in one again, just not so replacive and already suspected.
Or just not with Mav. She is really good.

[Krong]

Even though Mav or greenlover would have been better D1 kills than Lataro, he was definitely your third best choice of all the players. He'd successfully copped Mav as town, which would leave you with far too many experienced players trusting each other. Plus, he'd gained the singing ability, which would help verify weiyaoli.

Writing poll questions was kind of fun. Ultimately they had little real effect, given that there was no lie detector (I could hope, couldn't I?), but hopefully made the scum squirm a bit.

This will come across more in the chat, but they were quite worried about it. Also note how many tells came from the D1 poll, and how the D2 poll got 4 people to claim independent, something a townie would have no reason to do.

Wow, If I didn't ask for a replacement, I could have won as town without making any meaningful posts. I don't know if that's good.

It isn't. IMO town that don't contribute anything should be modkilled.
(I had a bad experience with a confirmed town player doing absolutely nothing except lurk actively)

Well, it's not really the mod's job to decide whether someone's posting helpfully or not, but to make sure they're posting at all, which was why I put those rules up about what anti-lurking action I'd take. Beyond that it's up to the town, and in this case they (correctly) thought that tlc was not worth lynching.

[weiyaoli]

I don't really understand the point of FAOT's bible dropping power? I guess it was useful because people thought god=town but I'm not really sure what it was supposed to do? And also, only losing if lynched seems a bit easy, especially since he could claim God with no restrictions. What could have worked better would have been only being allowed to claim through his power and there being a lyncher for God, maybe as a second win condition for the Devil?

[tastelikecoke]

Wow, If I didn't ask for a replacement, I could have won as town without making any meaningful posts. I don't know if that's good.

It isn't. IMO town that don't contribute anything should be modkilled.
(I had a bad experience with a confirmed town player doing absolutely nothing except lurk actively)

I'm quite baffled that you're still posting even though there are exams*. You're posted during Feb 23 and 24, and that's like our lastest periodical exams. I won't forgive myself if I failed that exam.

*we're both seniors on the same school. *hints communication outside forums*