[TM] The Departed Mafia - Game Over! People win!

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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day 2

Postby weiyaoli » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:07 pm UTC

Weeks wrote:
Ninja'd. I think wei makes some valid points, but it's covered in wine. For one, you can claim a non-chara and say it's what cjdrum was talking about with little consequence; after all Trooper Brown could actually be here, waiting to debunk. Also, a FoS isn't a vote, but surely if someone else had voted, you would've? I think Wooy` is arguing from the viewpoint of intent, which is a toughie, but I think there's something to it...the attack on cjdrum simply looks out of place. (My points on not voting have already hopefully been explained by me.)


Well at this point, at least how I see it, it's more of a claim so I that I can speculate/contribute on the set-up which will be confirmed when I am lynched (Which is looking like the most possible scenario right now). I realize there's lots of wine involved, which was why I waited until it was looking pretty sure like I was going to be lynched to claim as adding wine to the table which can clearly only be cleared by my death isn't really the smartest thing to do if you're not going to die and would have got me lynched for very little reason.

Well yes, if people agreed with my suspicion I would have voted, but even then I'm not entirely sure what I would have done as everybody else has pointed out how awful the reasoning behind it is. I'm not sure that immediately lends itself to "start of a bandwagon" though, I don't think my intent was to start a bandwagon but get other people's ideas on how mpolo managed to die N1 and if cjdrum was involved in that.
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day 2

Postby Weeks » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:11 pm UTC

I get that. That's why I'm hesitating to vote you. We still can't rule out the possibility of scumminess, and it's sad that we can't find out unless you die.
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day 2

Postby Zid » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:13 pm UTC

Vote:Chandani

Now again, this is just me. But if I'm going to be lynched I wouldn't really want to "escape" if I was town. I wouldn't care too much that I'd be thinking of resorting to a replacement. If I was scum, I'd want to not be lynched pretty badly and a replacement would cover my shame of being found out. I've also witnessed someone else do that in another game.. so actually it's not just me.
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day 2

Postby Weeks » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:15 pm UTC

Wow, cool guys. It's 3 - 3. -.-
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day 2

Postby Zid » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:16 pm UTC

Wow, cool guys, we have a person online who could swing the vote!
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day 2

Postby Lataro » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:20 pm UTC

Votals:

Mav - 1- (VectorZero)
Chandani - 3 - (Mav, Weiy, Zid)
Weiy - 3 - (FAOT, Chandani, Wooy`)
VectorZero - 1- (Weeks)

Deadline in 41 minutes. Again, please don't talk after deadline.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day 2

Postby Weeks » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:24 pm UTC

Alright.

When I read Chandani's posts I found her use of probability to decide about things very calm and townie-like. It'd be tough for me to vote her right now. The ping she made when saying that she wanted to be replaced is to me lesser than Wei's fos stuff. I also find the votes for her to be quite less reasoned; they seem like cheap shots, when I believe the small contributions she's made, while perhaps echoed, totally reasonable.

Wei also looks calm and controlled, but unlike Chandani, made a few baseless accusations, and there's wine surrounding him. At the very least we can gain some info out of this lynch.

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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day 2

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:25 pm UTC

I'm going to not make this too long because deadline is so close, but the t;dr is that, while I said I found the VZ/FAOT positions scummy, and I still disagree with the logic being used there, I'm willing to believe that FAOT is well intentioned at least. VZ I get no such good vibes from.

I'm going to

Vote: VectorZero


for now, with the note that if needed, I'll be casting a vote for Weiy (who I feel is maybe a bit scummier) if we're still at a tie there with <10 minutes to go.
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day 2

Postby Mavketl » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:34 pm UTC

Well, I believe weiyoli's claim, and I didn't think he was hugely scummy to start with. If a Chandani lynch can't win from weiyaoli, then I might as well try

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vote: VectorZero
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day 2

Postby Lataro » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:36 pm UTC

Votals:

Mav - 1- (VectorZero)
Chandani - 2 - (Weiy, Zid)
Weiy - 4 - (FAOT, Chandani, Wooy`, Weeks)
VectorZero - 2- (PE, Mav)

Deadline in 24 minutes.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day 2

Postby weiyaoli » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:53 pm UTC

Final thoughts on each player:
Spoiler:

1. PhoenixEnigma (First!!!11!!eleventyone!!)

I found the fact that he was expressing suspicion of VZ/FAOT/me and then not following it up scummy, but has just recently voted, though very close to the deadline. (Possibly absent/not on computer during that time though?)

2. FAOT ( Haven't seen the movie, but I'm ready to break some kneecaps to get the job done!)
I'm not really sure what to make of his disagreement with Weeks and the back and forth earlier on. Reading up on Week's post addressing this, I think I agree with most of his points but I haven't really got scummy motives for pushing this view from FAOT.

3. Weeks (Haven't seen the movie either. Not sure if I can break kneecaps, is it like breaking skulls?)
I agree with most of his points regarding FAOT. Beyond that though, I don't really have much of an opinion on him.


4. cjdrum (I'll read some synopses of the movie. Also, be prepared for ribcage breaking.)

Very very lurky. Where is he?

5. Mavketl (I've seen this movie and I don't remember anything about it.)

VZ's case was weak. Haven't seen anything hugely scummy.

7. vectorzero (and it has a pun in the title!)
I found his Mav must be scum since she wasn't NKed full of wine. In fact his general case is pretty weak.

8. GopherofPern (Will not depart first)
Ditto for cjdrum. Are they still playing this at all?

10. Zid (Can I point a real gun at Leo?)
Interestingly enough, started the whole thing against people who did not vote for more_people. What happened to this Zid?

13. wooy` (what is this I don't even)
Not sure what to make. Seems laregly to have slipped under people's radar.

14. Chandani (bastardness scares me...)
To be honest, I still find her scummy. Probably worth a look at tomorrow still.


FoS:Chandani, VectorZero for reasons mentioned above and FoS: cjdrum, GopherofPern for lurking.
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day 2

Postby Lataro » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:08 pm UTC

The cars rolled up, everything was going as it should.

"Alright, lets nail this bastard." a voice said in the back of the room, as the gathered crowd watched the screen as Costello and his crew got out of the cars and entered the warehouse.

"What the shit is this?! Where did they go?!" The voice yells out, as Costello and his crew disappear off the monitors.

"We must have a blind spot sir." One of the technicians offered up.

"No shit genius! Why the fuck do we have a blind spot you piece of shit!" The voice yelled out, moving closer to the monitors.

"We didn't have much notice to set up alright, look, it's not like it was intentional!" The technician said.

"You stupid son of a bitch, get out there and get a camera in place now!" The voice ordered. The technician scurried off in a hurry to try and get the Captain a visual on the transaction. Shortly afterwards...

"I'm concerned about a Chinaman who thinks it's wise to come to a business transaction with automatic weapons. For his own good, tell Bruce Lee and the Karate Kids none of us are carrying automatic weapons. Because here - in this country... it don't add inches to your dick. You get a life sentence for it." Costello says to the translator.

After the translator finishes, the two Chinese men holding Uzi's put them back away.

"If these chinks wanna nuke Taiwan anytime in this century, they better shape up and show me $1 million dollars! What we generally do - in this country - is one guy brings the items, and the other guy pays him. "No tickee, no laundry"!" Costello continues.

A man from the Chinese gang steps forward and places a briefcase down on the ground. Costello signals one of his men to bring the microprocessors and display them. The two sides quickly verify and complete the transaction.

As the groups get in separate boats, Costello says, "We got a mouse out about, go take care of him quickly." Fitzy gives a short nod and heads back into the warehouse.

"Those bastards didn't count on us having a Navy." Costello remarks to his gang as they board the boats to make their escape. A gunshot is heard in the distance as they load up...

weiyaoli has been lynched. It is now Night Two. Please be prompt with actions.

A deadline will be set later if needed on this night.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Night 2

Postby Lataro » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:55 pm UTC

Somewhere in the distance...

Fitzy had his gun drawn. He was ready to kill this man before him. He didn't want to die though. The man held his own gun back on Fitzy, and Fitzy knew if he shot first, he couldn't avoid being shot as well by the man before he fell dead. The staredown continued for awhile, each man slowly shifting position, trying to find an advantage over the other. Fitzy only needed another six inches, then he could fall back around the corner and he'd be able to shoot this man safely.

As he edged closer to the corner, someone came around it at a run, not seeing the two men there, and plowed right into Fitzy. As he fell forward, he heard a gunshot ring out. In shock for only a moment, he recovered his senses, and realized it wasn't him that was shot. That moment was all the other man needed though, he had closed the distance at a charge, and the last thing Fitzy remembered was being pistol-whipped by the man.


Weiyaoli is dead, he was Trooper White, vanilla town.

As Fitzy came to, he felt heavy. He realized he was out by the docks as a refreshing spray of water misted over his face. He looked up, and that fucking guinea was standing over him. He tried to move, but his hands were bound, and he felt so heavy.

"I've taken the liberty of helping you ah.. find a new fashion. Trust me, it's you." the mobster from Providence said. Fitzy looked down and saw his feet were cast in cement boots. Panic overtook him as the man gave him a firm shove off the dock, and he fell into the water below, sinking rapidly to the bottom. As he tried to scream out for mercy his lungs filled with water, darkness swiftly overtook him.


Gopher of Pern is dead, he was Fitzy Fitzgibbons, a vanilla mafia goon.


Feeling satisfied with himself, the next day Tony from Providence was having a nice dinner at a bistro. The restaurant was quite today, and he was seated off by himself. As his meal arrived, he noticed a small card was placed on top of his spaghetti. Annoyed, he grabbed it and opened it, to see who dared disturb his meal. It read: "Enjoy your meal in hell, you fucking guinea." Confused at first, he looked down, and noticed something small under a pile of spaghetti. He realized what was going on too late though, as his meal blew up, taking him with it.


Zid is dead, he was a mobster from Providence. He won when Costello's mafia was eliminated. Bastardly Secret: If he achieved his first win, he could earn a second bonus with as a SK.

Day Three starts now, Deadline set at, oh, lets say, Tuesday at Midnight EST, so 60 hours or so from now.


8 alive, 5 to lynch.

There was no edit, amnesia dust!
Last edited by Lataro on Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:50 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby Zid » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:57 pm UTC

Cazzo.

FYI, my breadcrumb:

P retty
R eckless
O utbursts,
V ery
I nteresting
D iscussion
E merges
N amely
C oncerning
E veryone's
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:30 pm UTC

glug glug glug.....
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby weiyaoli » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:34 pm UTC

Um... anyone not dead going to post today?

*Obligatory Death Message*
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby Wooy` » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:43 pm UTC

Zid wrote:Cazzo.

FYI, my breadcrumb:

P retty
R eckless
O utbursts,
V ery
I nteresting
D iscussion
E merges
N amely
C oncerning
E veryone's

Huh?
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby Wooy` » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:46 pm UTC

Anyway, I guess this reveals there exists Bastardly win-conditions but I don't know what to extrapolate from this.
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby Lataro » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:49 pm UTC

Since clarification was asked via PM, I'll answer here. Zid was an Indie. He won when Costello's gang was eliminated. Unknown to him, if that was achieved, he became a SK for a chance at a second win.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby cjdrum » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:26 pm UTC

Heh, lots of Trooper <<colour>>s, aren't there?
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby ForAllOfThis » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:19 pm UTC

Well, although Wei turned out to be town at least a SK and Mafia died. I wonder if there are one or two more scum left? Hopefully one (given that we've got two). I'm a little shocked a trooper white existed. Will have to do a re-read of the thread in abit to see if anything suspicous jumps out (with regards to misterk and GoP, although GoP was heavily lurking like some other players in this game).
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby Mavketl » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:45 pm UTC

I guess we're lucky that one of the nightly kills had better aim than our lynch...

Living players, for your convenience:
Spoiler:
PhoenixEnigma
ForAllOfThis
Weeks
cjdrum
Mavketl
VectorZero
Wooy`
Chandani


I maintain that cjdrum is likely town for starting the wagon on more_people on D1 - or nonscum, anyway. VectorZero is annoying and stubborn and sometimes just wrong ( :P ), but the vehemence of his arguments makes me think he is probably town.

PhoenixEnigma and cjdrum need to post a little more. What I've seen of them is not scummy, and not active-lurkey, but it'd be really useful if they just... talk more.

I think Weeks was acting a bit strange with yesterday's voting. There were two lynch candidates, and he went for a third option... and then changed his vote at a perfect time to make sure weiyaoli would die. It kind of looks like he was hoping we'd lynch a townie and he could stay clear of it, but when weiyaoli didn't go down so easily, he switched to weiyaoli anyway.

Admittedly, I thought weiyaoli's story made sense and I'm still getting scum pings from Chandani, so part of my dislike is the way he swayed that lynch (plus the earlier defending of Chandani) and I DIDN'T GET MY WAY and stuff.

I've been re-reading Gopher of Pern's posts, but there are zero strong opinions of any of the players and he didn't vote at all this game, so it's hard to get anything from connections. Which means I'm mostly neutral on ForAllOfThis and Wooy`.
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby Weeks » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:57 am UTC

I can't believe Zid's post was a breadcrumb.

Anyway, I'd like to know why cjdrum nearly completely lurked yesterday, and hopefully he won't do the same thing again today?

FWIW: I still don't see what's so scummy about Chandani. Since I still have it from back then I'll post my Chandani analysis. Chandani's post list.
Spoiler:
1. Confirmation.
2. Short post claiming flavor ignorance.
3. One of the first to tell cjdrum that a massclaim was a bad idea.
4. Two days later appears and says mpolo doesn't look too good for jumping on cjdrum. Then says mpolo is more likely to be town because of the town/scum ratio. (o_O)
5. Tries to do what could be considered defending m_p by mentioning the possibility that he was innocent and also acted the way he did, but then guns down her own argument by saying suspicious behavior will be considered suspicious in a vacuum (that is, in the absence of meta). So she then says he was suspicious and finally votes. 4th vote on the 'wagon.
6 and 7. Finds out about the soft lynch.
8. Stops by and, besides mentioning a couple of excuses, says there is probably a vig, since a SK wouldn't fit the theme.
9. Thinks Wei's FoS is weak because of the low probability of his suspected scenario to have actually happened...I'll check that more deeply later. She then says it's possible that mpolo wasn't in the night chat...Well, we all can assume stuff here.
10. As someone said, you don't simply say "I think I want to be replaced" in thread, like some sort of ultimatum. She finds Wei the most suspicious. Then weighs in on the votes thing. That actually sounded reasonable. She then mentions how cjdrum has been silent...I do think it's possible that he's being forced to remain quiet. Simply refusing to comment after the one post earlier seems quite suspicious otherwise.
11. Yep, I agree.

Suffice to say that I'm not liking this bandwagon. I think Chandani is neutral at worst, using probability in her decision making, which is always a plus from me.


You could make the case that we have nothing better to go on now, but that's a lame reason to lynch on D3.

PE and Wooy` have posted much less. I still think VZ is simply being vocal, not really having good points. I'll reread.

Mavketl wrote:I think Weeks was acting a bit strange with yesterday's voting. There were two lynch candidates, and he went for a third option... and then changed his vote at a perfect time to make sure weiyaoli would die. It kind of looks like he was hoping we'd lynch a townie and he could stay clear of it, but when weiyaoli didn't go down so easily, he switched to weiyaoli anyway.

Admittedly, I thought weiyaoli's story made sense and I'm still getting scum pings from Chandani, so part of my dislike is the way he swayed that lynch (plus the earlier defending of Chandani) and I DIDN'T GET MY WAY and stuff.
Well thanks for the vote of confidence...I didn't like the Chandani 'wagon, I didn't buy wei's story (...FUCK ME) and it was a tie at the time. The rub is that I thought (and still think) VZ looked worse, in a way that has been overlooked (arguing a lot? pleaseeeee).

And honestly you can say I'm defending her too much, but I think you guys are attacking her too much; it looks like a cheap shot. Obviously scum would take advantage of this.
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby cjdrum » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:14 am UTC

Sorry for not posting, I'm quite flavour-blind and have an averagely boring-ish role. I'll try to post more, but it's hard for me to try to rolespec into who was associated with who and whatnot. Sorry!
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby Wooy` » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:45 am UTC

cjdrum wrote: have an averagely boring-ish role.

"Hey guys, my role is just soooo boring and average so just don't even worry about me."
ಠ_ಠ
That's pingy to me, like you want us to ignore you. Small statements like that can mean a lot. IGMEOY cjdrum
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby Chandani » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:46 am UTC

Weeks wrote:4. Two days later appears and says mpolo doesn't look too good for jumping on cjdrum. Then says mpolo is more likely to be town because of the town/scum ratio. (o_O)

Actually, I was talking about cjdrum most likely being townie since his role name wasn't exactly one from the movie. Which seems to be kind of backed up by the fact that wei was townie and had a name similar to one in the movie (am I getting that right?).

cjdrum: It's okay about being flavour-blind, but you could have put in your own thoughts about the whole not voting D1 or on people's scummy behavior in general. Yesterday was pretty heavy in those two fields. And the fact that you pretty much had no posts doesn't seem to help. Not having a restriction yesterday doesn't help your case much.

So try to be more involved, 'kay?
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby cjdrum » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:07 am UTC

Yep, sorry. Will be more involved and give this game a bit more attention than I have been! I promise!
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby Weeks » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:14 am UTC

Wait, what? You didn't post because you were bored?
cjdrum wrote:Yep, sorry. Will be more involved and give this game a bit more attention than I have been! I promise!
I hope this means you're reading the thread and will soon comment on the 2 and a bit pages of posts that happened while you were absent.
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby Weeks » Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:29 am UTC

Analyses, post by post.

Wooy` (your username breaks url tags. -.- Anyway, copy pasting the search link should work. search.php?f=53&t=68688&author=wooy`):
Spoiler:
1. confirm
2. Role spec.
3 and 4. Accuses mpolo of twisting cjdrum's words. Finds FOAT's accusation of mister k "insulting to [mister k's] intelligence, surely."
5. Says FOAT's argument was shoddy and blown out of proportion. Thinks mister k's actions didn't warrant a wagon, thus FOAT started looking scummy. I kind of agree, but I don't think it's "50x more scummy".
6. Says m_p had already enough votes, so we were good for deadline. I concur.
7. More non-vote debate (from here on abbreviated as NVD). Says VZ's meta argument is ridiculous (agreed).
8. More NVD, says scum would likely start a different wagon. Attacks FOAT's apparent indifference about cjdrum's and VZ's votes.
9. Even more NVD. I agree with Wooy's points here. Utterly destroys FOAT's meta argument.
10. Votes for weiyaoli because of his FoS, makes an explanation, and adds to the NVD.
11. Says "Huh?"
12. Admits ignorance about bastard win conditions.
13. Puts his eyes on cjdrum for his weird, weak defense against his lurking on D2.

Wooy` hasn't posted that much and defended himself a lot re: NVD, but his defense and explanations were solid. Neutral to town.


PhoenixEnigma:
Spoiler:
1. Role spec, insightful.
2. Assesses cjdrum as "funny [...] not sure it's scummy funny". Doesn't get m_p, would bet on jester. Reads mister k as scum.
3. Votes m_p mostly because of the noise he produced, and because of scumminess. Considers leaving m_p to a vig.
4. Agrees with Wooy` re: NVD. Says ze would reread.
5. Says ze was pinged by weiyaoli. More NVD, refuses to vote FOAT.
6. Wholly NVD post, says I ninja'd hir.
7. Comes seemingly out of nowhere to vote VZ, but hir reasoning is valid. Says ze would vote weiyaoli given a tie.

Very few posts, valid reasoning. I do think ze could post more. Neutral.


Sorry I couldn't do more, I must go now. I'll analyze the rest of the players tomorrow.
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:31 am UTC

cjdrum wrote:Sorry for not posting, I'm quite flavour-blind and have an averagely boring-ish role. I'll try to post more, but it's hard for me to try to rolespec into who was associated with who and whatnot. Sorry!
We're really a little past the point where we're limited to rolespec. In fact, I'd argue we were past that point yesterday as well. After D1/N1, there's generally enough game-mechanic-based info that, even if you don't know the flavour, you can contribute based on who suspected who, when and where votes were casts, who turned up dead in the morning, and the like.

I'm inclined to write this off as newbness, but still - there's more than enough info out there to start having and sharing opinions, and it helps others piece together who is likely scum or not (which is more beneficial to town, as a rule, as scum generally already have an idea of who is who).

This may be the only time I'll ever say this anywhere, so listen carefully: LURK LESS. POST MOAR.

On that note...(spoilered to make the post not super long)
Spoiler:
PhoenixEnigma - Well, clearly, I'm town :P Really, though, self analysis is rather useless for mafia imo.

ForAllOfThis - Argued pretty hard for what turned out to be a town lynch, and on what I'd consider pretty shaky evidence, but they were also very vocal about it. Either very bold scum or town, I think, and I'm leaning slightly towards town still.

and yeah, ninja'd a bit on the cjdrum thing.

Weeks - Has posted a lot - more than I have time to fully analyze while at work. Notice a mix of one-line type posts and longer ones, so the actual number of useful posts may be a little lower than it looks like at first glance. Lots of analysis and such tends to be either quite pro-town, or scum saying lots of obvious things and repeating others. Will need to go back and look over this later.

cjdrum - see above. Lurky, but that might be newbness, and in such a way I can't draw any conclusions. I'm deeply unhappy with the situation - I don't want to maybe give a free pass to scum, but I don't want to lynch without evidence, either. Wooy` has a point, though - claiming "don't look at me, I have a boring role" doesn't really come across very well.

Mavketl - Like Weeks, more posts than I can really analyze at work (as, you know, I kinda have to do actual work once in a while). Posts seem to average the same length as Weeks, maybe, but more consistent in length, dunno what that says. Another one to mark for a better look later.

VectorZero - See my earlier thoughts when voting for VZ. Haven't seen anything to change my mind, would consider to be on the scummy side of the scale. Same thing as FOAT, but without the same "redeeming" vocal and aggressive aspect. I'd like to hear a little more from them today, but very much IGMEOY.

Wooy` - Hasn't said a whole lot, most of what they have said seems fairly cautious, but reasonable. Nothing that really pings me specifically, although the late vote on wei, while explicitly noting that it could look scummy, could be a sort of wifom bandwagon deal. Not sure how far down that road I want to go, wine leads to madness (and occasional hangovers).

Chandani - Even more than than cjdrum, has been under my radar. They did kind of hop on the more_people bandwagon, but also mentioned in passing they have played on another forum where that's more typical. I'll buy that, but it also implies they're not very new to the game, which is something to keep in mind. Other than that, they do seem to be making at least a few posts outlining opinions and reasoning, and making some effort to drive discussion. The replacement thing is a little worrying, but I don't really see where all the hate is coming from.

tl;dr: Need to look more at Weeks and Mav, but want to post this now. Still kinda liking VZ as scum. cjdrum doesn't sit well with me, either, but there's not enough there to be too happy. Really don't follow the suspicion on Chandani.

and yeah, ninja'd a bit on the cjdrum thing
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby ForAllOfThis » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:52 am UTC

Seeing as gopher was scum I felt like a re-read of his posts could be useful so (round-up):

Gopher (Day 1): Suspects m_p and misterk. Follows through with no vote and just 'lurks'.

Gopher (Day 2): Copies Weeks. Throws suspicion/wine at VZ, Mav & Weeks. Questions Wei. Suggests looking at people who didn't vote for m_p is bad.

There's not a whole lot to get from the very few posts. It looks like he was trying to find an early D2 target in VZ, Mav or Weeks. Could be an attempt to turn all three of them against each other. His argument into not looking at day 1 non-lynchers is obviously in his best interest given that he's scum, it may also be in scum's interest as a whole (although i have no intention of reviving this argument for round 2).
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby VectorZero » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:26 pm UTC

Checking in after a horror stretch at work. Gimme time to sleep and catch up with the thread.
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby Weeks » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:51 pm UTC

Moar analyses.

VectorZero
Spoiler:
1. Confirm
2. Starts out with speculation and a vote against mister k for opportunism. Says he found cjdrum's post scummy, but mentions he should explain or clarify with the mods. Makes a role list...somewhat useful. Then asks mister k for explanation again.
3. Attempts to clarify about mpolo's argument.
4. Thinks m_p is a troll...I think trolling for the sake of trolling in mafia is very unlikely; I could only concede, slightly, that m_p is new blood so they might attempt it anyway. Also asks about role stuff again.
5. Votes to avoid a NL. Umm...what.
6 and 7. More role stuff. Seems to clarify something about Sean Costigan being scum. I personally think it's...weird that VZ has been asking for this so much.
8. Apparently he thought cjdrum was Sean Costigan...And voting so early for m_p looks like a bold scum move to him, so he's not Costello? Let's remember that cjdrum's early vote was for pronouns, not suspicion. More role spec.
9. I think given the triviality of VZ's vote on D1("to avoid NL"...?), the fact that he accuses Mav for not voting is a little suspicious. He does tack on "Good enough to begin" before voting.
10. joke
11. "You're not the first to ask that"? And uses meta to accuse Mav of not being dead. Honestly I could see scum not killing Mav precisely for this kind of argument to be used later. It could be that Mav is scum, or something else happened (maybe role related), but I find myself trusting Mav this time, so I'm not really buying this line of attack. VZ also mentions it in a way that could be construed as "not an attack", but it still sounds like an attack.
12. The thing is, VZ mentions "with support from weeks" while accusing Mav of antagonizing mpolo, but doesn't attack me directly. This is why I said it sounded like he was trying to link me with Mav into some sort of scummy conspiracy. Then he uses mpolo's statement about the mafia attacking him for his vote to accuse Mav (and me, by association). I could see the logic behind the suspicion, I guess, but it all hinges on assumptions about the mafia team and Costigan's role, not taking into account that mpolo did look slightly scummy back there, and assuming from the get go that we're scum.
13 and 14. Says he'd been criticized if he hadn't mentioned me. Ok, I can concede this one, even if at the time I did feel a slight accusation of association was forming.
15. Now notices there was no soft-lynch, and claims the meta reasons mentioned on post 11 were simply supportive.
16. Complaint about silence near deadline
17. Claims that this being a turbo we need to be more proactive, thus justifying his vote on Mav. Thinks PE's "placing oneself in a place to be suspected, creating wine [and] increasing the odds of town being lynched" is not enough reason not to vote.
18. Says we should vote, and still thinks Mav is scummy.
19. "Check in" post.

I'm not too trusting of VZ. I may be slightly biased; I tend to read VZ more negatively since I have seen how adept he is at appearing town while being scum (I almost lynch him in HUAC, he was indep; was scum in Dexter, looked relatively town). Most of his points seem weak to me. Neutral to scum.


FOAT:
Spoiler:
1. pregame
2. confirm
3. rolespec, assumes 3 or 4 scum.
4. Speculates about the bastardry and scum mechanics
5. More speculation regarding costello, costigan, and the guy who costello thought wasn't a rat (Delahunt).
6. Madolyn spec...
7. Thinks a vote on cj was warranted at the time. Accuses mister k of defending cj, thus making them both look scummy.
8. Wooy` had defended mister k a little, and so FOAT responds with accusations of lack of explanation and voting reasons. He then accuses m_p of preemptive defense, says he's been pinged.
9. Off topic.
10. Follows through with a vote, saying preemptive defending sounds like you have something to hide.
11. Asks if m_p is claiming scum...
12. Admits he might have misread, leaves vote for earlier reasons and deadline.
13. FoSed me, I think I addressed this pretty well already. (I don't agree) Accuses Mav on...meta reasons. -.- Thinks weiyaoli is attacking cjdrum to capitalize on their exchange on D1, thus making cjdrum seem scummy.
14. NVD, part 2.
15 and 16. Moar NVD, his worst post in the whole debate: had a number of fallacies in it (later said it was sarcasm).
17. Says weiyaoli's FoS might have been a scum set-up, and given the deadline, votes.
18. NVD, I responded to this already.
19. No, he said all the people WHO DID VOTE were NON-TOWN. The one demonstrating reading fail here is FOAT, not Wooy. This I think is the only point I didn't explicitly analyze in my previous NVD post.
20. Argues against me, asks people to vote and to stop the NVD.
21. Hopes for 3 scum, shocked about Trooper White, says he'll reread
22. Says GoP might have been attempting to lynch me, VZ or Mav, or turn each one against the other. No intention to continue the NVD.

I was really frustrated with the way FOAT argued, it's like arguing with a brick wall at times. I don't think we should agree to disagree if we understand what each other is talking about. There's other little things, like the reading fail up there and the meta accusation. PE said ze could see FOAT as well intentioned; I might allow some leeway, I've seen FOAT argue vehemently before as town, but this series of posts still bugs me. Neutral to scum.


Mavketl:
Spoiler:
1 and 2. Jokes
3. Role spec.
4. Looks at cjdrum, Chandani and mister k for minuscule scum tells.
5. Says she didn't like cjdrum's response (agreed).
6. Understood cjdrum's explanation, explains to him.
7. Says she didn't find cjdrum too scummy, thinks he explained himself well enough, accuses mpolo for his vote.
8 and 9. Accuses m_p of doing the exact thing he was discussing, then giving a bad defense.
10. Asks m_p to defend.
11. Says she'd let the day end ride on a soft lynch. Remarks that m_p is being anti-town regardless of him being scum.
12. Defends against VZ's vote for "opposing mpolo's opinion, supporting a jester and not voting m_p". Pretty wholesome defense.
13. Responds to meta accusation.
14. Points out where she explicitly accused mister k, my bad. Says she's leaning town on cjdrum and zid for their early, silly votes (umm....what). Appears to exaggerate VZ's position a little. Bothered by Chandani's lack of posts.
15. NVD, responds to Zid and me quite reasonably, votes Chandani for active lurking.
16. NVD.
17. Moreeeee NVD (I hope it's becoming obvious how much energy we wasted on this)
18 and 19. Says she doesn't see the scummy thing that wei did which caused Zid to vote him.
20. Says Zid's and wei's reasons for voting were similar, doesn't think wei's vote is that scummy
21. Doesn't see the logic behind Zid's argument; can't fault her, Zid had a weird way of saying things at times.
22 and 23. Argues more against Zid. Remarks on the lack of votes.
24. Believes weiyaoli. Attempts to lynch VZ since she thinks the Chandani lynch won't go through.
25. Still thinks cjdrum looks town, now thinks VZ looks townie too. Says PE and cj should post more. Thinks I looked strange, doesn't like my defending of Chandani. Thinks FOAT and Wooy` look neutral.

Well, Mav is not playing aggressive this once, which might have helped her not get killed so quickly (in which case...kudos, nice one), but in the process she makes some weird points, like thinking VZ looks town after voting him the day before, or going for Chandani (not that her points against Chandani were bad, but she simply refuses to consider Chandani as not-scum). Still, she hasn't said anything really condemning, and has posted a lot. Town.


cjdrum:
Spoiler:
1. confirm
2. Remarks on players who haven't posted
3. This is it, the horrible post of doom. For easy reference:
But, I've worked out my character parallel. I wonder if we can claim using the actor's/actress' name without constituting massclaim...

4. Doesn't realize I'm talking about him.
5. Votes m_p because he doesn't like m_p's usage of plural pronouns, there was little over a day left, and nobody was seeming scummy. Well, except himself. Says the response re: his earlier post of doom was exaggerated. (hint: it wasn't)
6. Responds to every response, says sorry a lot, that he was thinking out loud, and appears to misinterpret the rules.
7 and 8. Explains his role name and misinterpretation of the rules, now apparently understanding what he misinterpreted (this looked legit). Accuses m_p of doing the exact thing m_p was discussing.
9. Explains his accusation.
10. snark
11. Explains to m_p why using plurals is confusing, uses ANGRY CAPS. (I approve of the use of ANGRY CAPS.) Says it'd be easier if he claimed, then says he wants to check if nobody wants to kill him. Just why claiming is so important to cjdrum is beyond me at this point.
12, 13 and 14. Off topic
15. Attacks m_p from the pronoun thing, again. The reasoning is good, but the point is weak.
16. Says sorry, and that there was "nothing going for anyone" (patently false).
17. 4 days and 2 and a half pages later, comments on weiyaoli's role.
18. Says sorry again, twice, and that he hasn't posted because he has a boring role and it's difficult for him to rolespec. I...I just...wow.
19. Promised to be more involved...

cjdrum hasn't posted content after D1. I think wei's FoS was poorly reasoned, but that doesn't exempt cjdrum at all. He hasn't even bothered to active lurk, and I don't think his voting for m_p favors him so much. Neutral (to be very, very forgiving) to scum, I think.


I already analyzed Chandani and analyzing myself would be futile, so I'll give a ranking now:

--Town--
Mavketl
Wooy`
Chandani
PE
VZ
FOAT
cjdrum
--Scum--

...

I don't intend to let cjdrum lurk by again. Consider this a warning. If you can't post for RL reasons, say so and ask to be replaced. You're not looking too good otherwise.

vote: cjdrum
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby Weeks » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:53 pm UTC

Before I forget: It's possible that my daily posting will be reduced from tomorrow onwards, but I'll do my best to post at least once daily.
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby Mavketl » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:12 pm UTC

Weeks wrote:vote: cjdrum
Oh come on, how frickin obvious is it that he's Trooper [colour], vanilla town...
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby cjdrum » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:19 pm UTC

I have now asked to be replaced. I'm really sorry, I've let this game slip by, more focused on more makes-sense-to-me-flavourful games.

In response to Weeks, I thought that everybody had already established that me starting something (and continuing, however stupid it started as) on more_people, the Mafia Roleblocker, was not scummy. You seem to be saying that going at m_p was scummy? How? I just want to know your opinion a bit better so I can defend a bit better.
Why I seemed to be obsessed over claiming - The Horrible Post of Doom was a passing comment in which I was thinking out loud, then it got expanded into so, so many posts just blatantly dismissing it or disbelieving me, that I just thought it might be easiest to get out of the yelling and opposition by just saying who I was.
Plus, what other "Parallel" could there be other than the Troopers that we've found? We've already found two parallel to Trooper Brown, and they were Vanilla Town. I don't get why that Horrible Post of Doom turned into the Horrible Post of Doom.
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby Weeks » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:07 pm UTC

cjdrum wrote:In response to Weeks, I thought that everybody had already established that me starting something (and continuing, however stupid it started as) on more_people, the Mafia Roleblocker, was not scummy. You seem to be saying that going at m_p was scummy? How? I just want to know your opinion a bit better so I can defend a bit better.
No, I just think the reasons for your initial vote are being displayed as being so good when in fact they weren't. It's not inherently scummy to be wrong, but it's not townie either.

cjdrum wrote:Why I seemed to be obsessed over claiming - The Horrible Post of Doom was a passing comment in which I was thinking out loud, then it got expanded into so, so many posts just blatantly dismissing it or disbelieving me, that I just thought it might be easiest to get out of the yelling and opposition by just saying who I was.
Plus, what other "Parallel" could there be other than the Troopers that we've found? We've already found two parallel to Trooper Brown, and they were Vanilla Town. I don't get why that Horrible Post of Doom turned into the Horrible Post of Doom.
We've only found one parallel. And it was already a horrible post of doom! Thinking out loud can look like a scum slip, especially that particular post, and scum slips are rare but good indicators of scumminess.

And I'm still mildly pissed that you didn't post yesterday, but no use crying over spilled milk, I guess. Or something.

Mavketl wrote:
Weeks wrote:vote: cjdrum
Oh come on, how frickin obvious is it that he's Trooper [colour], vanilla town...
Well, fuck, that would make sense, yes. I'm not sure how many Trooper [color]s we should assume here, though.

At the very least, though, cj's asked for a replacement, so I'm like, temporarily appeased.

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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby ForAllOfThis » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:29 pm UTC

Mavketl wrote:
Weeks wrote:vote: cjdrum
Oh come on, how frickin obvious is it that he's Trooper [colour], vanilla town...


He also made it obvious before trooper [colour] was revealed as a role, started the lynch on m_p and commented that his role was 'boring'. Cj is probably the most confirmed townie at the moment in my books.

@Weeks: You claim that I was being stubborn with my reasoning? Gopher was scum and didn't vote for m_p day 1, it's not concrete proof but at least evidence I was looking in the right direction.

Vote: Weeks

I'm not buying that you're town anymore. I've pointed out what was wrong D1 with your lack of voting and plenty of attacking. Yesterday you turned it into a big argument, just acted as a distraction from D1. Today you'ved voted cj for lurking, yet it's pretty clear what his role is.

Ninja-ed: 1) Everyone must have noticed, 2) you're still throwing suspicion at it "I'm not sure how many we should assume.." 3) even with you're vote removed you still have the actions from before.
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby Weeks » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:17 pm UTC

ForAllOfThis wrote:@Weeks: You claim that I was being stubborn with my reasoning? Gopher was scum and didn't vote for m_p day 1, it's not concrete proof but at least evidence I was looking in the right direction.
Um, hello? Wei wasn't scum. He also had little pings according to you; you even voted for him. I'm not sure you're analyzing the data correctly.

I'm not buying that you're town anymore. I've pointed out what was wrong D1 with your lack of voting and plenty of attacking. Yesterday you turned it into a big argument, just acted as a distraction from D1. Today you'ved voted cj for lurking, yet it's pretty clear what his role is.

Ninja-ed: 1) Everyone must have noticed, 2) you're still throwing suspicion at it "I'm not sure how many we should assume.." 3) even with you're vote removed you still have the actions from before.
Yes, wait, what? I didn't turn it into a big argument. It was already one when I started posting about it. You then backed off but still use it as "evidence" for things you don't even know about!

Of course, to you, everyone must have noticed. Yes, I get that you won't change your mind.

The main difference between you and me is that, while you charge headlong into the street without looking to the sides because the lights are red, I don't.

vote: ForAllOfThis
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Re: [TM] The Departed Mafia - Day Three

Postby cjdrum » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:25 pm UTC

Weeks, can you please just answer the questions, rather than sidetracking and accusing FAOT of "charging headlong" into the metaphorical street. Which, uh, can you explain exactly what FAOT did that you didn't do?

vote: Weeks

For blatantly disagreeing with everybody, and not even attempting to see where we're coming from.
Also, because Mavketl just spelled it out in front of him, and he's attacking FAOT, who was mainly defending me. Just because you have a different opinion doesn't make everybody else wrong.
As well as accusing FAOT for "charging into the street". As far as I know, you're talking about him voting on you, but you were the one who voted on me first!
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