Are you Ready for some "Football"!!! NFL Discussion

[Telchar]

Breaking news (heh): Bob Sanders signs deal with Chargers, breaks hand shaking hands, out for season.

[Dark567]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -it-needs/

So the league offered to give the union officials access to their total revenues, expenses and profits, and have them all independently audited. The union wants complete access to the books and wants to be able to make the info public. I don't understand why they would want that info unless they were going to use it to hurt the credibility of the NFL publicly.

[Telchar]

They want access to it because the owners already get 1 billion off the top before revenue sharing and they are argueing that they need another 1 billion because they are losing money. The players wan't to look at owners books to make sure they are actually as hard up as they say they are.

Why they want to make it public I have no idea. I always thought a third party looking at the books would be best for both sides but w/e.

[Dark567]

They want access to it because the owners already get 1 billion off the top before revenue sharing and they are argueing that they need another 1 billion because they are losing money. The players wan't to look at owners books to make sure they are actually as hard up as they say they are.

Why they want to make it public I have no idea. I always thought a third party looking at the books would be best for both sides but w/e.

The NFL is offering the expense, revenue and profit data though and having a third party look at it. They just aren't offering where their revenues are from or where the expenses are going, but are freely giving them the amounts.

[Telchar]

Right, but the how is neccesary. Lets say Paul Allen (who owns the Seattle Seachickens) is wasting 20 million dollars employing his relatives at positions like "Manager of the watercooler" then the players want to know that because, if that's the case, then they can say "We don't need more revenue sharing, you need to be more responsible with your money."

Offering sum-total data isn't bad but it isn't what the players have been asking for for 2 years either.

[McCaber]

As a Packer fan, I don't find this to be that big a deal. Everyone knows our finances, because like half the city's an owner of the team and it's therefore a public record.

[Dark567]

As a Packer fan, I don't find this to be that big a deal. Everyone knows our finances, because like half the city's an owner of the team and it's therefore a public record.

Well they know our totals(which are pretty bad), not the breakdown, which is what the union is demanding. Companies generally don't give out thorough broken down revenues and expenses(they often will breakdown things like operating income versus investment income, but does the NFL). As an owner, I look at the expenses and its an absolute shitty return for the city of Green Bay, that money could be helping a lot of people(after whatever percentage is put into the emergency fund). Getting $4 or $5 million a year on a billion dollar company is absolutely horrible.

Right, but the how is neccesary. Lets say Paul Allen (who owns the Seattle Seachickens) is wasting 20 million dollars employing his relatives at positions like "Manager of the watercooler" then the players want to know that because, if that's the case, then they can say "We don't need more revenue sharing, you need to be more responsible with your money."

Which is why the NFL is having an independent agency audit the teams, so they can find out if there are any blatant abuses.

[Telchar]

As a Packer fan, I don't find this to be that big a deal. Everyone knows our finances, because like half the city's an owner of the team and it's therefore a public record.

IIRC: The Packers revenue was 22 million in 2007 and 9 million in 2009. The question is whether or not that's indicitive of a leauge wide problem or specific to GB.

@Dark: According to the NFP article you linked the third party is simply verifying P&L statements. They aren't investigating spending discrepancies between teams. Whether or not it's fair for the NFLPA to want that is up for debate.

[mosc]

Getting $4 or $5 million a year on a billion dollar company is absolutely horrible.

You fail to grasp the situation entirely. The economy of green bay Wisconsin IS the packers. The team itself doesn't need to be profitable, it just needs to be solvent. It's existence has trickle down effects on the entire area. For example, the hotel where you stay at when you are in town for a game makes money off the packers, the taxes raised pay for the public works, etc. It's like saying Tiger didn't make much money as a golfer because you're only counting his golf winnings rather than his total income.

[Dark567]

Getting $4 or $5 million a year on a billion dollar company is absolutely horrible.

You fail to grasp the situation entirely. The economy of green bay Wisconsin IS the packers.

Don't worry I know the effect the Packers have on Green Bay, Green Bay is my hometown(and in reality Georgia-Pacific and Humana are the majority of the economy of Green Bay). What I don't fail to see is the donations that come from the Packers profits to the community. And the community has invested massive amounts in the team(~$1 billion of stock) and the stadium(~$350 million). I don't claim that they need to earn as much as a typical business investment, they don't, thats not its purpose. Its constantly falling profits bother me, as it looks like it will in a couple years.

@Dark: According to the NFP article you linked the third party is simply verifying P&L statements. They aren't investigating spending discrepancies between teams. Whether or not it's fair for the NFLPA to want that is up for debate.

Auditors verify P&L statements by breaking down the expenses and revenues and making sure they aren't being directed for other means(i.e. paying $20 million dollars to a water boy). Granted it would be perfectly legit to assign a relative to some executive position and pay him $20 million. Its possible that the NFL owners do need to be more responsible with your money, but if thats the case, they would have a lot easier way to increase their profits than pushing down on the union.

[kernelpanic]

Well, the NFLPA has decertified and the CBA expires at 11:59 pm today. Who's ready to watch the Arena football league and the CFL!?

[Dark567]

Well, the NFLPA has decertified and the CBA expires at 11:59 pm today. Who's ready to watch the Arena football league and the CFL!?

Yeah, that was just about the worst thing that could happen. If the owners lockout the players at least they could possible pick up part way through, now that the Union decertified its gonna be a long drawn out court case.

[kernelpanic]

Well, the NFLPA has decertified and the CBA expires at 11:59 pm today. Who's ready to watch the Arena football league and the CFL!?

Yeah, that was just about the worst thing that could happen. If the owners lockout the players at least they could possible pick up part way through, now that the Union decertified its gonna be a long drawn out court case.

Damn! Now I won't be able to go 17-0 in fantasy football like I bet my friend!

[Telchar]

There is a bizarre scenario in which Free Agency and other transactions (rookie signings) could still continue as per the old CBA. Essentially a restraining order against the lockout could include a clause to keep business as usual ie: all offseason transactions are still allowed to happen. Obviously that will get appealed and temporary injunctions against the restraining order may take place but....yeah.

You can almost here Nnamdi praying...

[bentheimmigrant]

You can almost here Nnamdi praying...

And Eagles fans everywhere.

[Adacore]

Now the season looks like it will actually happen, I'm curious if anyone would be interested in an XKCD Fantasy Football League? I've played fantasy football with folk from another forum for the last 5-6 years, but my league there looks like it's not happening this year, so I wondered if maybe we could start one here

[McCaber]

Now the season looks like it will actually happen, I'm curious if anyone would be interested in an XKCD Fantasy Football League? I've played fantasy football with folk from another forum for the last 5-6 years, but my league there looks like it's not happening this year, so I wondered if maybe we could start one here

It'd be fun, but I'll need to learn about the AFC first.

[jakovasaur]

I would play, for sure.

[bentheimmigrant]

I could probably be involved in this as well.

[Dark567]

A very good article on the NFL's relationship with its fans post lockout.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011 ... the-n-f-l/

[bentheimmigrant]

A very good article on the NFL's relationship with its fans post lockout.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011 ... the-n-f-l/

Yeah, I'd say that's fair, but I was never one of those vowing to boycott the league. I was just desperate for them to get back to business. Although it failed to mention the most important point... Philly's going to the big game this year!!!

[kernelpanic]

Anyone volunteering to manage the fantasy league?

[Adacore]

I totally can, although if I remember correctly some of the fantasy sites don't let you sign up if you're not a US resident for some reason, which might preclude my paying (directly) for anything, if we want a paid-for league.

EDIT: I'll try and remember to look into the options this evening.

[bentheimmigrant]

I know nfl.com lets you have international leagues... It would probably be easier than trying to set up a paid league.

[Adacore]

Right. Let's see if we can't get this started. I'm going to create a new thread in Forum Games, because I don't really feel like Fantasy Football discussion belongs in N&A. I'll PM all those who have expressed an interest to see if they're still in, once we have a list of players (I think a maximum of 14 would be sensible, but I guess we could push to 16 or maybe more?) then I'll start up the league and send people invites.

EDIT: Sign up in the thread here.
EDIT2: Oops. Put it in the wrong forum. It should hopefully be moved shortly, which will probably change the link above. I'll edit it as soon as I see it's been moved.
EDIT3: Thread has been moved; link has been modified.

[bentheimmigrant]

So, Eli Manning puts himself in the same class as Brady. I don't even know how to express how ludicrous that is.

[kernelpanic]

At first I thought "How is that ludicrous? He's certainly in Brady's league, he's just as good, if not better than him".
Then I saw it was his baby brother.

[Adacore]

It's not that ridiculous an attitude for him to hold - as a professional sportsman you have to believe you're as good (or at least can be as good) as the best in your field, or there's no point trying to compete. From a neutral perspective, however, it's obviously not true.

[Telchar]

Man, the Iggles looked bad tonight. Sorry Ben.

Aside: Probably the only game I've ever watched where 80% of the QB's playing were black. Certainly seems to be more color creeping into a stereo-typically white position.

[Dark567]

Vick's tackle of Polomalu had to be one of the stupidest thing I have ever seen in preseason. Just sayin'.

[bentheimmigrant]

Man, the Iggles looked bad tonight. Sorry Ben.

Aside: Probably the only game I've ever watched where 80% of the QB's playing were black. Certainly seems to be more color creeping into a stereo-typically white position.

Yeah, I'm glad it's just preseason - most excuses are actually valid then.

Vick's tackle of Polomalu had to be one of the stupidest thing I have ever seen in preseason. Just sayin'.

Ha... It made me laugh. I'm kinda glad to see some passion after all that crap, but driving your head into someone's knee is just asking for a concussion.

[Gears]

Wish I could've seen it. How did my boy Ronnie do?

[bentheimmigrant]

I've only seen the highlights on nfl.com, and since the only interesting thing from the game are the Eagles' lowlights, I don't think you'll get to see any more of the offence than the interceptions.

[Telchar]

Vick's tackle of Polomalu had to be one of the stupidest thing I have ever seen in preseason. Just sayin'.

I thought it was awesome from the standpoint of someone who doesn't care about either team. I mean, he drilled him. I bet Reid was pissed but it was fun to watch.

Do you remember last year when they used to trot out the "Vick hasn't thrown an interception since September of 2008!" stat all the time? That pissed me off, so I had to send a text to an Eagles heckler I know about his 3 tonight.

Also, why the fuck do the Eagles and Bears play each other every year? I mean, I get that it's because we both finished in the same place in our divisions but...it's getting a little weird.

[bentheimmigrant]

Yeah... I've been tired of it since the game your backup QB drove 97 yards for the win.

[Telchar]

You're taking me back with the Brian Griese days. I thought 2009 Kyle Orton stopping you on the 1yd line on 4th and goal was the one you were going to link.

[bentheimmigrant]

You guys killed us with backup qbs. The one thing I'm afraid of in the league is a Bears 2nd string passer.

[Adacore]

So, due to someone dropping, there's one spot left in our XKCD Fantasy NFL League. Draft is this coming Saturday (over Labor Day weekend) - any takers?

[Telchar]

This just in...


Da Bears Da Bears Da Bears Da Bears.

[Dhes]

This just in...


Da Bears Da Bears Da Bears Da Bears.

I think you mean,
The Ravens The Ravens The Ravens...
Last nights game was one of the best games I’ve seen in a long time.