Artificial Life by Steve Grand

[SpaceShipRat]

Computer scientist Steve Grand, also the brain behind the Creatures Artificial Life video game series, is developing a new revolutionary game/simulation.

I think I'd better let him explain it himself
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/15 ... on-your-pc

Excerpt from the project page

Imagine that someone has discovered alien creatures on a nearby planet and is planning to import them to Earth to sell as pets. Would you want to buy one?

What would you do with it? Where should you keep it? What is it capable of? Does it have alien dreams, hopes, fears? Does it have its own primitive language? Its own culture? What should you feed it? What makes it sick and how do you look after it? Can this species safely coexist with that species? Is it possible to get the creatures to breed, here on Earth? Might they evolve? Can we understand their biology? Can we interpret the structure of their brains? Are they conscious? Should they have rights?

I can't promise actual physical aliens from another planet, but I can offer you real 'alien' life forms who can live in a virtual world on your computer. And I do mean real. I'm not talking about a computer game designed to simulate lifelike behavior; I mean genuine artificial life. I mean virtual creatures constructed from complex networks of virtual brain cells and biochemical reactions and genes. [...] If you conclude that they're conscious, thinking, feeling beings then it won't be because I've somehow fooled you. I'm not here to fool you; I'm here to celebrate the beauty and complexity of life with you.

[...]Ever since I finished the Creatures game (the forerunner of what I'm attempting now) around 15 years ago, I've devoted myself to artificial life and artificial intelligence research.[...] I don't want to take it to a publisher because it will cease to be a labor of love and a work of art and science, and instead become a commercialized video game. I'm asking for the bare minimum I can live on while I put my latest ideas into practice (it's going to take about another 12 months), but if you can help me raise more than my goal then I can probably afford to eat as well and do a better job with the game. I'd really appreciate that. Thank you.

I'd kinda assumed someone would have already posted this here, but apparently not. The project is in fact already funded(!), but there's still 2 weeks to get such things as a preorder of the game with access to the beta versions, up to access to a private developement forum and tools.

I'd have kicked myself if i'd somehow missed this opportunity. I really suggest you look into it.

[Xeio]

The guy behind Creatures? Hell yes.

[JamesP]

ohmygodohmygodohmygod

I played the crap out of the creatures games. I just hope this guy ain't pulling a Molyneaux on us and it will be as epic as he says.

Also, does anyone else think he is slightly, maybe, just a little taking his inspiration from MC? Buy now, get unfinished game at ultra low price with a possibility of finished game later! Hey, as long as it works.

[Levi]

I wouldn't call $50 an ultra-low price. I think I'm going to wait until it's out to purchase. It's a year-long wait, but at least I will be able to be sure I'm not paying for a game I don't want. Looks like he's doing just fine, too, closing in on double his pledge goal.

I never really did get the hang of Creatures. I downloaded a free edition of the game, but I didn't see the appeal. Maybe there were a lot of features missing or something. I couldn't get the Narns to do specific things, like stay on a certain level or walk back and forth all the time. I spent the longest time trying to keep them awake forever, but I guess sleep is more important than pain after a while.

[JamesP]

I was going off him asking for 'the bare minimum'. Shoulda read the link

[Korrente]

And what happens when the creatures turn out to be conscious, realize they're living in my computer, and want out?

[Xeio]

I never really did get the hang of Creatures. I downloaded a free edition of the game, but I didn't see the appeal. Maybe there were a lot of features missing or something. I couldn't get the Narns to do specific things, like stay on a certain level or walk back and forth all the time. I spent the longest time trying to keep them awake forever, but I guess sleep is more important than pain after a while.

Docking station was ok, the internet connectivity was theoretically neat, though I had to install an add-on to vaporize norns that came through with highlander disease. Also, part of the point was they had their own thinking, you could teach them, but not command them.

Also, you're going to hell for mistreating your norns, you know that right*?

*I would never ever hurt my norns**

**Or use the medical station to see what injecting them with different chemicals does to them***

***Like death****

****What? Death is totally a chemical.

[EmptySet]

The ethical implications of having actual lifeforms on my computer are far too horrifying for me to consider buying this. I'd be imagining them telling stories about how when the Final Shutdown comes, all the disk shall be cleansed in the Great Formatting, yea, and the worthy shall be spared and travel to a new world upon the sacred Ark of Removable Media.

[SpaceShipRat]

I trust it will be epic. Much because he won't have a clueless marketing department to please, or a tight deadline. You can hardly go wrong when you start like that!
Yes, these community funded projects are a bit like Minecraft and Overgrowth, though with the difference that this is limited to the starting period. I guess, if there are a lot of people interested, he can always start selling preorders once beta comes out.

Creatures was a miss for many people who just didn't understand what they were supposed to do. I was 9 and had no problem at all, but maybe others, with previous gaming experience, expected Norns to behave like AoE units and march up and down for them.

The ethical implications of having actual lifeforms on my computer are far too horrifying for me to consider buying this. I'd be imagining them telling stories about how when the Final Shutdown comes, all the disk shall be cleansed in the Great Formatting, yea, and the worthy shall be spared and travel to a new world upon the sacred Ark of Removable Media.

I think you are confusing intelligence with sapience. These creatures will be animals, hardly people. Gosh, I hope!


This game is going to focus more on interaction and the creatures being able to learn, rather than evolution as the later Creatures games did, especially since these creatures will be aging slower. Yeah, it is a bummer when a creature you've spent hours teaching to just dies on you. But i will miss what I do in Creatures 3, setting up the worls with special conditions (Ok, we'll have a really low temperature and kill all food sources except cheese vendors...) and just leaving them there, coming back hours later to weirdly mutated norns.

[el_cheato]

And what happens when the creatures turn out to be conscious, realize they're living in my computer, and want out?

If it's advanced as Steve says it is, then this sounds like a legitimate threat. They could take control of your entire computer, and then start communicating with others via the internet!

[SecondTalon]

I think you are confusing intelligence with sapience. These creatures will be animals, hardly people. Gosh, I hope!

I... while I'm fine with medical research, eating animals and using them for labor and entertainment via things like racing, I kinda have a problem with the notion of just wiping them out completely when I'm done with them.

[Jessica]

If it's as cool as creatures, then sign me up!

And, for those who don't know what creatures is... go to GOG.com and buy it.

[SpaceShipRat]

I think you are confusing intelligence with sapience. These creatures will be animals, hardly people. Gosh, I hope!

I... while I'm fine with medical research, eating animals and using them for labor and entertainment via things like racing, I kinda have a problem with the notion of just wiping them out completely when I'm done with them.

That's interesting, because the question of culling came up pretty often in the Creatures community, but it was usually regarded as more "humane" to export and delete a creature rather than kill it in-world. But I've always found a massive injection of glycotoxin does the deed quickly. Or the piranha pond, of course. That's again C3 when norns breed like tribbles, and have the personality of a rock with a face on it, I couldn't kill a c1 norn. If you really think you'll have a problem with deleting creatures, you can always export them from the game and share them on the internet. (or wait till they die of old age)
I actually balk a bit from th idea of starting over all the "ethics" questions that the current CC had finally resolved after 12 years and >9000 posts on the topic.

[WarDaft]

I... while I'm fine with medical research, eating animals and using them for labor and entertainment via things like racing, I kinda have a problem with the notion of just wiping them out completely when I'm done with them.

If real intelligence is as easy to create as simply playing a game, then there's little reason to feel bad about wiping it out.

The only reason that intelligent life forms fear death in the real world is because we have silly little things like conservation of matter and energy - and intelligence requires both out here. Thus, intelligences which can operate across 4 dimensions to acquire more matter and energy propagate forward through time, while those that can't, don't. In a virtual world, intelligence need only fear death if we program it to. Even then really, it's hard to feel bad about killing it, you should feel more bad about programing it to feel fear.

[Xeio]

I... while I'm fine with medical research, eating animals and using them for labor and entertainment via things like racing, I kinda have a problem with the notion of just wiping them out completely when I'm done with them.

If real intelligence is as easy to create as simply playing a game, then there's little reason to feel bad about wiping it out.

And this is why the robot revolution will happen.

We're already in the matrix though, so it will happen recursively.

[SecondTalon]

No disassemble!

[SpaceShipRat]

^ thank you for that, I googled it and found a movie I think I'll just have to see.

I wonder if this will be compared to Milo, Molyneux's "8 Year old boy in a box". A rather big issue in AI and roboics is certainly the emotional appeal component, what makes you love an artificial creature enough that you'd feel grieved at the thought of "disassembling" it.

[Izawwlgood]

So, it's a tamagatchi. Excuse me while I continue breathing as normal.

[SurgicalSteel]

Much because he won't have a clueless marketing department to please, or a tight deadline. You can hardly go wrong when you start like that!

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

[SpaceShipRat]

Much because he won't have a clueless marketing department to please, or a tight deadline. You can hardly go wrong when you start like that!

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

Not. If I get the tone of some sentences wrong, blame it on my not being in any way a native english speaker.
I just mean so many games get rushed out incomplete, or turned into children's stuff (see Spore. I'm sure Will Wright didn't want cells with large eyes on them.) At least "going indie" means this game won't be like those.

[SpaceShipRat]

Just thought I'd give you a heads up- time is almost over.