xkcd

by **mosc** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:04 pm UTC

Garm wrote:I think 1554 is a beer that requires food to really enjoy. For my money it's my favorite of the New Belgium line (not a big fan of Fat Tire due to over consumption) and it goes really well with Pizza. They describe it as a black ale. It is pretty malty.

I love Belgian styles. I have spent a good bit of money on Belgians across many different styles from Duvel to Rochefort 10. That said, I can't stand American versions of Belgian beers. They're too sweet, no depth, and seem to have forgotten to add hops. I agree with the point about food adding some middle to their beer, making it's weaknesses less transparent but honestly, they still suck. And it's not like Fat Tire is earth shatteringly cheap either. I mean, something like Newcastle or another quality brown ale (which America does seem to know how to make) is just a whole lot more quality for the same money. Honestly, I can name a lot of American mass produced domestics that I'd rather drink with my food than some micro-brewed knock-off Belgian fake. My least favorite beers I have ever tried have been American versions of Belgian styles. New Belgium brewery and Ommegang are serious offenders, though I'd also mention the much more commonly available Blue Moon.

by **Dark567** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:17 pm UTC

*Gasp*
I love my American Knock off Belgians, just not the ones from New Belgium. Matilda(Which certainly isn't missing hops), Pere Jaques, Three Philosophers... just excellent beers.

uncivlengr wrote:"Over-rated" and "under-rated" are silly concepts, really - what you're saying when you claim something is over-rated is that there's some sort of consensus on the value of that thing, and that despite this consensus, you know better. Even if there such a consensus existed for anything, how do you decide it's wrong? The fact that you disagree?

Pretty much. When I say something is overrated, that is saying consensus rates these beers higher than I would. *shrugs*

by **mosc** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:29 pm UTC

Dark567 wrote:*Gasp*
I love my American Knock off Belgians, just not the ones from New Belgium. Matilda(Which certainly isn't missing hops), Pere Jaques, Three Philosophers... just excellent beers.

Three Philosophers I have had, and found it terrible. It had a very similar taste to the Ommegang version I tried. Kind of an overly sweet and simplistic take on a Dubbel. Honestly, I may be a little bias there because I don't even like that many "real" Belgian Dubbel's. I prefer the more balanced Tripels, the darker trappists, or the occasional flavor orgasm of a quad. I haven't had Matilda, if I see that I will definitely give it a go.

by **TheAmazingRando** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:25 pm UTC

Have you tried anything from Lost Abbey? My experience with Belgian beers is pretty surface (I love Delirium Tremens but other than that I've only really tasted a handful), but I've enjoyed most of their beers that I've tried.

by **hendusoone** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:40 pm UTC

mosc wrote:
Dark567 wrote:*Gasp*
I love my American Knock off Belgians, just not the ones from New Belgium. Matilda(Which certainly isn't missing hops), Pere Jaques, Three Philosophers... just excellent beers.

Three Philosophers I have had, and found it terrible. It had a very similar taste to the Ommegang version I tried. Kind of an overly sweet and simplistic take on a Dubbel. Honestly, I may be a little bias there because I don't even like that many "real" Belgian Dubbel's. I prefer the more balanced Tripels, the darker trappists, or the occasional flavor orgasm of a quad. I haven't had Matilda, if I see that I will definitely give it a go.

Three Philosophers is Ommegang's Quadrupel, so I'm not sure if you're just confusing it with something else, or if you really found it that lacking. That said, it's one of my favorite beers.

by **Garm** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:54 pm UTC

Lost Abbey is pretty alright. I had their "Devotion" on draft the other day and drank the whole thing. It wasn't what I was looking for tho', I should have gone with the Chimay White.

by **hendusoone** » Thu May 05, 2011 1:17 am UTC

I'm celebrating May the Fourth by watching the Empire Strikes Back, and drinking one of my two bottles of Old Rasputin 12th Anniversary Edition.

Imperial March + Imperial Stout = so very yes. This was a fantastic idea.

by **Dark567** » Thu May 05, 2011 1:24 am UTC

hendusoone wrote:Imperial March + Imperial Stout = so very yes. This was a fantastic idea.

Somehow I had never thought of that.... my favorite movie, and a favorite beer style.

by **TheAmazingRando** » Thu May 05, 2011 3:38 am UTC

This reminds me, Sierra Nevada has an imperial stout called The Empire Strikes Black. I had it a few weeks ago, and it was delicious (and, true to its name, pitch black). I didn't take any notes, but I remember it being more chocolate than coffee, thick and bourbony but also incredibly smooth for an imperial stout.

by **hendusoone** » Thu May 05, 2011 7:46 pm UTC

I'll keep an eye out for that one.

by **lewismd** » Fri May 06, 2011 3:02 pm UTC

mosc wrote:I love Belgian styles. I have spent a good bit of money on Belgians across many different styles from Duvel to Rochefort 10. That said, I can't stand American versions of Belgian beers. They're too sweet, no depth, and seem to have forgotten to add hops. I agree with the point about food adding some middle to their beer, making it's weaknesses less transparent but honestly, they still suck. And it's not like Fat Tire is earth shatteringly cheap either. I mean, something like Newcastle or another quality brown ale (which America does seem to know how to make) is just a whole lot more quality for the same money. Honestly, I can name a lot of American mass produced domestics that I'd rather drink with my food than some micro-brewed knock-off Belgian fake. My least favorite beers I have ever tried have been American versions of Belgian styles. New Belgium brewery and Ommegang are serious offenders, though I'd also mention the much more commonly available Blue Moon.

You've named a couple pretty big micros there. There are so damn many micros making belgian-style ales that generalizing like that seems rather inaccurate. I mean, blaming a Coors product for bad American attempts at Belgians is kind of silly. Of course the Coors version of a witbier is boring as hell, it's a macro. As for hops, the number of Belgian IPAs I see around makes that comment seem a tad odd.

I guess what I'm saying is don't overgeneralize from a couple bad experiences/breweries. There are so many local/regional micros out there making great beer, keep trying it. And like someone else said, Matilda is fantastic.

by **telcontar42** » Fri May 06, 2011 4:50 pm UTC

hendusoone wrote:I'm celebrating May the Fourth by watching the Empire Strikes Back, and drinking one of my two bottles of Old Rasputin 12th Anniversary Edition.

Imperial March + Imperial Stout = so very yes. This was a fantastic idea.

See, you really should have been drinking Imperial Stout Trooper.

by **ExplodingHat** » Fri May 06, 2011 11:28 pm UTC

Has anyone here tried the Sam Adams Imperial Stout?

by **hendusoone** » Fri May 06, 2011 11:42 pm UTC

telcontar42 wrote:
hendusoone wrote:I'm celebrating May the Fourth by watching the Empire Strikes Back, and drinking one of my two bottles of Old Rasputin 12th Anniversary Edition.

Imperial March + Imperial Stout = so very yes. This was a fantastic idea.

See, you really should have been drinking Imperial Stout Trooper.

I actually have a bottle of that... I just didn't feel like cracking it open.

by **mercutio_stencil** » Sat May 07, 2011 11:54 pm UTC

I still find it somewhat amusing, American breweries have been beating out Belgians at making Belgian style beers at the World Beer Cup for a few years now.

by **Dark567** » Sun May 08, 2011 12:11 am UTC

mercutio_stencil wrote:I still find it somewhat amusing, American breweries have been beating out Belgians at making Belgian style beers at the World Beer Cup for a few years now.

I am guessing thats because the Trappists probably don't enter their beers into the competition. I didn't see any medals for Westvleteren, Orval, Chimay, or Rochefort and couldn't find a list for entrants, but am thinking thats the best explanation for their absence.

by **lewismd** » Mon May 09, 2011 12:48 am UTC

Dark567 wrote:
mercutio_stencil wrote:I still find it somewhat amusing, American breweries have been beating out Belgians at making Belgian style beers at the World Beer Cup for a few years now.

I am guessing thats because the Trappists probably don't enter their beers into the competition. I didn't see any medals for Westvleteren, Orval, Chimay, or Rochefort and couldn't find a list for entrants, but am thinking thats the best explanation for their absence.

If the only beers Belgium can win awards with are trappists, that's rather sad.

by **Dark567** » Mon May 09, 2011 1:30 am UTC

lewismd wrote:
If the only beers Belgium can win awards with are trappists, that's rather sad.

Thats not really what I am saying, they shouldn't been the only Belgians to win. But one would think they would be represented.

by **ExplodingHat** » Wed May 11, 2011 3:51 am UTC

Currently trying Green Flash Double Stout. Amazing but for a slight metallic aftertaste.

Edit: Said metallic taste went away quickly, and at the very end it tasted just like dark chocolate. Most excellent.

by **TheAmazingRando** » Wed May 11, 2011 6:37 am UTC

ExplodingHat wrote:Currently trying Green Flash Double Stout. Amazing but for a slight metallic aftertaste.

Edit: Said metallic taste went away quickly, and at the very end it tasted just like dark chocolate. Most excellent.

I rarely drink Green Flash, and every time I do I think "why don't I drink more Green Flash?". They're cheap and they're local and I have no excuse.

Also, I just found out Stone is doing growler fills of last year's Imperial Russian Stout this weekend, but I'll be out of town. Might have to ask a friend to get a fill for me. I'm itching to try the Belgian yeast + anise version, come June. I thought the Belgian yeast version of Old Guardian was better than the original, so I have high hopes for this one.

by **Heisenberg** » Wed May 11, 2011 6:57 pm UTC

Y'all might enjoy this hilarious mockery of beer can "technology"

http://beernews.org/2011/05/breckenridg ... -campaign/

by **uncivlengr** » Wed May 11, 2011 7:05 pm UTC

Swirly bottlenecks? Is this actually a thing?

by **Garm** » Wed May 11, 2011 7:48 pm UTC

Breckenridge's Avalanche Ale is definitely worth drinking. I haven't had much of their other stuff which I should remedy since they're essentially a local brewery.

I've been drinking a lot of O'Dell's 5 Barrel lately. Mostly because my father likes it a lot. If you like moderately hopped beers you should check it out, it's quite good.

by **TheAmazingRando** » Wed May 11, 2011 8:07 pm UTC

uncivlengr wrote:Swirly bottlenecks? Is this actually a thing?

Miller Lite, it's a "vortex bottle."

by **TheGrammarBolshevik** » Thu May 12, 2011 7:16 pm UTC

Ah, that must explain why I didn't enjoy it when I had a can…

by **mercutio_stencil** » Thu May 12, 2011 8:56 pm UTC

Dark567 wrote:
lewismd wrote:
If the only beers Belgium can win awards with are trappists, that's rather sad.
Thats not really what I am saying, they shouldn't been the only Belgians to win. But one would think they would be represented.

Of the hundreds of breweries in Belgium, only a handful are Trappist. Also, one would kind of hope that monks would have better things to do with their time, although I know that really isn't the case. I still hold a bit of a grudge against Chimay for doing some thoroughly un-Christian things with their beer.

Ok, I just realised how that sounded...I should clarify; when early home brewers tried to replicate Chimay, some enterprising individuals saw fit to clone Chimay yeast. After all, it is bottle conditioned, so it should have more than enough live yeast to culture. When Chimay found out about this, they decided that their yeast was part of their cultural legacy, or something like that, and they wanted to keep it private. Since then, they ferment with their 'special yeast', then filter, and bottle condition with a generic yeast. Of course, the first cultures of the yeast are still going strong, and you can buy a Chimay yeast clone from just about every yeast distributor, so it didn't amount to much, aside from being kind of a jerky things for monks to do.

by **lewismd** » Sun May 15, 2011 7:07 pm UTC

TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Ah, that must explain why I didn't enjoy it when I had a can…

Ah, but the can has a "Taste protector lid!"

by **Azrael** » Sun May 15, 2011 8:22 pm UTC

mercutio_stencil wrote:... I still hold a bit of a grudge against Chimay for doing some thoroughly un-Christian things with their beer.

... they decided that their yeast was part of their cultural legacy, or something like that, and they wanted to keep it private. Since then, they ferment with their 'special yeast', then filter, and bottle condition with a generic yeast.

So protecting your intellectual property is un-christian? Are they forbidden from copyrighting, trademarking or patents because of their religion as well?

And for that matter, plenty of breweries have proprietary yeasts.

by **TheGrammarBolshevik** » Sun May 15, 2011 8:27 pm UTC

lewismd wrote:
TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Ah, that must explain why I didn't enjoy it when I had a can…

Ah, but the can has a "Taste protector lid!"

To protect it from taste vigilantes, I presume.

by **mercutio_stencil** » Mon May 16, 2011 7:23 am UTC

Azrael wrote:
mercutio_stencil wrote:... I still hold a bit of a grudge against Chimay for doing some thoroughly un-Christian things with their beer.

... they decided that their yeast was part of their cultural legacy, or something like that, and they wanted to keep it private. Since then, they ferment with their 'special yeast', then filter, and bottle condition with a generic yeast.

So protecting your intellectual property is un-christian? Are they forbidden from copyrighting, trademarking or patents because of their religion as well?

And for that matter, plenty of breweries have proprietary yeasts.

The yeast is their intellectual property? I have a bit of a problem with owning the legal rights to a living thing, although you are right, the bible is a little unclear as to the subject of yeast.

I'm irked by their actions because it seems to be a direct snub at homebrewers, and one that would have no impact on major breweries access to their yeast. Once the stain has been cultured, especially by one of the major yeast labs, it's on the market to stay. Once it's out of the bottles though, home brewers can't have the fun of capturing and culturing it on their own.

I don't know that much about the Benedictine orders, but I recall the rules say that the monks have to be involved in "good works." That they are required to learn a trade to help support the monastery. That is the reason that many of the Trappist monasteries have associated breweries. Well, that, and that monks like to drink. How does this help their 'good works' any?

by **Azrael** » Mon May 16, 2011 12:23 pm UTC

mercutio_stencil wrote:I'm irked by their actions because it seems to be a direct snub at homebrewers, and one that would have no impact on major breweries access to their yeast. Once the stain has been cultured, especially by one of the major yeast labs, it's on the market to stay. Once it's out of the bottles though, home brewers can't have the fun of capturing and culturing it on their own.

In that thought, I believe you've drastically overestimated how many brewers can (and do) culture yeast and yet completely missed out on why Chimay would strive to protect their own -- to keep it out of the hands of commercial (for-profit) yeast labs that can clone it accurately and in enough volume for other commercial breweries to knock off the final product more effectively.

If you are one of those few brewers who wants to pull yeast samples, I assure you that you're just caught in the middle. Chimay isn't doing this to snub you, they're doing this to prevent larger companies from undercutting their product.

by **Heisenberg** » Mon May 16, 2011 1:32 pm UTC

mercutio_stencil wrote:The yeast is their intellectual property? I have a bit of a problem with owning the legal rights to a living thing, although you are right, the bible is a little unclear as to the subject of yeast.

So do I, but the law currently allows companies to own the legal rights to living things, and could potentially view the use of heirloom yeast as a violation of their intellectual property rights.

by **uncivlengr** » Mon May 16, 2011 1:43 pm UTC

It's probably not intellectual property per se, but the yeast is certainly their property, and it's a their hard work from which they reap the benefits. Cattle farmers, similarly, put a lot of work into breeding valuable animals, and will pay over a million dollars for a single cow just for its embryos, they're not just going to give it away.

If you've been culturing a certain yeast for years to make your product more valuable, it would be silly to release it for some corporation to exploit.

When things are engineered, like GMO crops, that's when it becomes intellectual property - they can sell you the seeds and still own the rights to it. Otherwise, someone can't sell you the seeds to their heirloom tomatoes (or their beer yeast) and control what you do with them.

by **Bakemaster** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:12 pm UTC

If it's not intellectual property, you can't stop someone from reproducing it (no pun intended) for their own use.

If I can make an exact replica of your TV and put one in my house, you can't sue me for stealing your TV.

by **uncivlengr** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:24 pm UTC

Right, which is why they filter it out before bottling.

I've heard of bakers doing the same with their sourdough yeasts - the family business has had the same starter for generations, and they guard it carefully from competition.

by **mercutio_stencil** » Mon May 16, 2011 7:27 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:
mercutio_stencil wrote:The yeast is their intellectual property? I have a bit of a problem with owning the legal rights to a living thing, although you are right, the bible is a little unclear as to the subject of yeast.

So do I, but the law currently allows companies to own the legal rights to living things, and could potentially view the use of heirloom yeast as a violation of their intellectual property rights.

I know it's currently legal, I just don't like it.

I know most breweries don't bother culturing their own yeast; practically everyone just uses White Labs, or one of the other big yeast labs. It's still kind of fun if you're the really obsessive home-brew type though it's the only chance I get to use practise my aseptic technique.

My problem was that they only made the change after 'their' yeast had been cultured. At that point, removing the yeast from the bottle doesn't impair access, it's still available through major commercial venues. It just makes it impossible for me to try to clone their yeast when I get bored.

by **DRWS** » Fri May 20, 2011 3:24 am UTC

It's nice to see so many people with good taste! I could not stand the smell of beer until I was fortunate enough to live in PA and get exposed to Yuengling. Then I only drank Yuengling for years until a bunch of my friends had a contest to see who could drink 365 different beers in one year, and I branched out a little. I only tried 8 that year, but now my wife and I have documented over 300.

We love Imperial Stouts and Porters. I am a huge fan of Belgian style tripel golden ales. We found IPAs too bitter for a long time, but we've acquired the taste.

Here is a list of our favorite beers that are easy to find (a shopping list for relatives to keep in mind at the holidays):

Spoiler:

Best Breweries:
Iron Hill (porter, tripel golden ales)
Dogfish Head (especially IPAs)
Rogue
Chimay

Good Breweries:
Samuel Adams
Victory
Sierra Nevada

by **DRWS** » Fri May 20, 2011 3:30 am UTC

ExplodingHat wrote:Has anyone here tried the Sam Adams Imperial Stout?

My wife and I gave the Sam Adams Imperial Stout our second lowest rating out of 303 beers we've tried. It was way too sweet, and so disgusting that I could not finish my half. Their Imperial White is only slightly less gross. We generally love Sam Adams beers and Imperial Stouts, so we were very disappointed about this one.

by **netcrusher88** » Fri May 20, 2011 4:35 am UTC

Seattle Beer Week has begun! By proclamation of the Mayor and all that, I was there when it was read.

Maritime has brewed up the official SBW 2011 ale, Decompression, a fantastic 100% Falconer's Flight American strong ale.

Naked City has 12 in-house brews on tap including the disturbingly fantastic NC-17 malt liquor (yes - a malt liquor I actually want to drink, remarkable), an ESB I hadn't tried previously, and this year's Tripel which is lighter and maltier than last year's which I consider an improvement.

Also, Uber being Uber (yeah, we have a bar called Uber) they insist on doing epic events during Seattle Beer Week even though they aren't an official venue so they tapped 2010 World Wide Stout and 2010 120 Minute IPA. The stout was pretty damn good, but the IPA... oh my god. It's like hop syrup (18%, very high gravity), then you take a good mouthful and the hops kick your fucking teeth in. Not, to be honest, one of my favorite IPAs (damn tasty but I walked away from it needing a glass of water), but it is an experience so worth having.

by **Bakemaster** » Fri May 20, 2011 5:12 am UTC

DRWS wrote:Sam Adams Honey Porter
Peter Scholey Criminally Bad Elf
Dogfish Head India Brown Ale

You, sir. Yes. You get a "hell, yeah!"

Couldn't help but notice only one Leviathan made the list, though. No love for the Baltic Porter?

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