The Resistance 3 - Reset?

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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup

Postby roband » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:31 am UTC

weiyaoli wrote:Just a question, why are we using the Spotlight on VZ rather than any of the others?


Yeah, surely the person who has the power should choose it randomly, so the person it's being used on doesn't expect it?

boomfrog has either been very townie or very scummy. I can't decide which.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:49 am UTC

If sblub is town then he has no preference, one person is as random as the next. If he is a spy he can use "random" to help his teammates avoid the spotlight. Thus we should have an arbitrary rule and top of the list seems like the most basic one to use.

[wine]You'll note that I suggested spotlight be used on the top of the list before I knew who was going to be at the top of the list. Although I'll admit I had a good guess it would be VZ. [/wine]
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup

Postby roband » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:57 am UTC

This isn't about being basic, it's about not letting one individual (who might be a bad guy) lead everyone else.

So, potentially, we have:
more_people - who I know is scum.
boomfrog - who I'm suspecting more and more.
VZ - who boomfrog is trying to give the opportunity to look at townie as possible.
[someone else VZ listed in his team] - who is the person who will fail the first mission, clearing VZ as town for the future. And that could well be boomfrog himself.

Howsabout that? Tell me it's not possible and I will laugh at you. Then agree that it's unlikely, but very possible
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup

Postby webby » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:05 pm UTC

roband wrote:boomfrog has either been very townie or very scummy. I can't decide which.


This I agree with. I'm currently leaning to townie though, because I believe that what he's posted has been good strategy.

I think the point of using it on VectorZero is his supposed scumminess in his allocation of the plot powers. I'm not sure whether it's actual scumminess or a genuine mistake. Regardless, it doesn't really matter who we use 'In the spotlight' on, because I think they'll pass it rather than fail and be confirmed scum. Unfortunately we have to use it before the mission starts.

If nobody has any objections, if the current team gets rejected, I'm going to do mission 1, go on the team myself and pick Boomfrog as well. Slbub uses 'In the spotlight' on the other player. This way we either get a passed mission, or another pair where we know at least one is scum. So even if it fails, we know that a minimum of 4 out of the other 6 players are resistance - I think we'd be doing pretty well at that point. I'm picking boomfrog because nobody apart from him has really jumped out at me as acting resistance.

And I just got ninja'd by roband. I'm not sure if it changes things, but maybe I'll look for another player if lots of people think boomfrog is suspicious.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup

Postby roband » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:19 pm UTC

I agree that we should reject this mission webby.

Trying to think of a strategy in which we can clear me (or more_people, in his opinion) using the various powers.
I don't think it's possible.

Oh, it's so bloody obvious that more_people would use it on me, as I have a power which is completely invalidated by his claim.
Wait.

Send me, more_people and [most town person] on the first mission. Slbub uses his power on more_people and I use mine on the other person.
It's a guaranteed pass.

more_people has to either pass the mission, or be outed as a spy (by slbub - who I hope to hell isn't scum as well).
The other person has to pass the mission, or be outed as a spy by me - which is only as unbelievable as it would have been before, but at least we keep the 3 people tidy, on one mission. And if we pick a townie looking person anyway, chances are they will pass it!

I reckon that works. But like I said, my logic isn't great.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby Aardvarki » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:45 pm UTC

We already know at least one of {more_people, roband} is a spy. I absolutely haven't ruled out some sort of weird ploy where you're both spies, either. I don't see why we'd want to send either of you on a mission right now.

I'm very wary of VZ - I can't fault his team picks but I do take issue with the plot power distribution, for reasons previously stated. That said, I'm feeling like he should be left off whatever team we do come up with.

I agree with rejecting this team. The fact that we're planning on rejecting VZ's team makes me wonder if he foresaw this. Thinking from VZ's perspective, if he's a spy and knew his team picks would be rejected (because the plot powers were given out incorrectly), maybe he's trying to line up another spy to be team leader for the second mission? Looking two down the players list from VZ brings me to BoomFrog. With all the discussion we've seen about him, now I'm really starting to get suspicious. If VZ is a spy, I am rather concerned about BoomFrog. Of course, if VZ is town, there's really no information to be gained.

I still think we should stick with mission 2/3 first. I think we should choose the four from the set of {slbub, infina, Aardvarki, Lataro, webby, BoomFrog, weiyaoli}. I'm leaning away from BoomFrog but otherwise have no inclination about the rest (except myself, of course). I also think we should save "In the Spotlight" for when we run #1 or #4, as it will give us the best shot of preventing a failed mission.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby roband » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:44 pm UTC

Well I was late to send my PM to reject the vote (it's been just over 24 hours by my count) so that is an auto-reject, I think.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby jayhsu » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:45 pm UTC

Deadline is 10PM thereabouts.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby roband » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:48 pm UTC

jayhsu wrote:Deadline is 10PM thereabouts.

In which timezone? :D

Also, I didn't even notice that you'd edited your modpost about deadlines. I did wonder about the deadline, given that more_people had 'used' his power.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby jayhsu » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:51 pm UTC

10 PM EST.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:43 pm UTC

I still think we should stick with mission 2/3 first. I think we should choose the four from the set of {slbub, infina, Aardvarki, Lataro, webby, BoomFrog, weiyaoli}. I'm leaning away from BoomFrog but otherwise have no inclination about the rest (except myself, of course). I also think we should save "In the Spotlight" for when we run #1 or #4, as it will give us the best shot of preventing a failed mission.
Why should we do mission 2 first AND save in the spotlight for mission 1. "best shot at preventing a failed mission" and "gives us the most information if it is failed" always go together, and we want to do those things first. There's no benefit to saving them for later.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby jayhsu » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:53 pm UTC

Please note the change to the following plot power:

Incorrect
Keeping a Close Eye on You x2
1 Time Use

The player who receives this plot power is told whether a specific player succeeded or sabotaged the mission this power was used on. This power may only be used at the end of a mission.

Correct:
Keeping a Close Eye on You x2
1 Time Use

The player who receives this plot power is told whether a specific player succeeded or sabotaged the mission this power was used on. This power may only be used during a mission on one player - you will be told the result at the end of the mission.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup

Postby webby » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:05 am UTC

roband wrote:Send me, more_people and [most town person] on the first mission. Slbub uses his power on more_people and I use mine on the other person.
It's a guaranteed pass.


This is only a guaranteed pass if you're town (and most town person is also town). If you're scum, and you fail the mission, then you can say the other person did, and there's no way to distinguish whether you're town telling the truth (and so more_people and this other person are both spies), or you're lying and you're the spy. Basically, we'd be in a situation where we know there's at least 1 spy out of 3. If instead, we use two players that aren't you and roband, and the mission fails, we'll have two spies out of four.

I think this is a better position to be in, since we'd know that there's no more than 2 spies in the remaining 6 players, as opposed to your method which has no more than 3 in the remaining 7.

more_people has to either pass the mission, or be outed as a spy (by slbub - who I hope to hell isn't scum as well).


It doesn't really matter whether slbub is scum, because the point of 'In the spotlight' is that the target player has to say publicly whether they pass or fail the mission, the result doesn't go to slbub.

Haven't really had a think yet about who roband should use his power on.

Aardvarki, what's the point of doing mission 2 or 3 first? I think we narrow things down much more and have a much greater chance of passing if we do mission 1?
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby webby » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:05 am UTC

And by 'you or roband', I meant 'you or more_people'
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby Aardvarki » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:31 am UTC

My suggestion for 2/3 first is because if we have a success on 2/3, we can use a subset of the successful team on #1 for an almost guaranteed success.

With ten players, I think it makes more sense to focus our attention on a smaller subset of them. If, for instance, we never figure out who is the spy out of {more_people, roband}, it's okay - we can still potentially pass every mission. Taking both of them out of the picture leaves us with either 5/3 or 6/2 (more likely than not it's 5/3, but i'm not ruling out 6/2). If both of them go on a mission (even with a confirmed townie), the spy (because we KNOW at least one of them is a spy) can just lie and claim the other one is the spy (like they're doing now). Picking one player randomly from {m_p, rob} gives us a 50% chance of town at best. Picking randomly from everyone else gives us 62.5% at worst.

Unfortunately the change to "Keeping a Close Eye on You" hurts quite a bit. Perhaps I misunderstood it originally, but I thought it could be saved for failed missions - the new wording indicates it must be used before you know whether the mission passes or not.

Is the use and/or target of "KaCEoY" announced publicly before the mission dispositions are submitted?

If so, that's even worse. It makes KaCEoY worse than In The Spotlight, because the results are submitted privately.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby jayhsu » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:40 am UTC

Aardvarki wrote:Is the use and/or target of "KaCEoY" announced publicly before the mission dispositions are submitted?


Neither use nor target of this power is announced publicly. Please PM me if you wish to use it, and I will let you know the target's disposition at the end of the mission. The change was to reflect how the card/power is supposed to work IRL.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby jayhsu » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:08 am UTC

The current team leader is: VectorZero.
The proposed mission is: 2.


Proposed Team Member 1: VectorZero
Proposed Team Member 2: Webby
Proposed Team Member 3: Boomfrog
Proposed Team Member 4: Weiyaoli

Votes:

1. roband - REJECT
2. slbub - REJECT (auto)
3. infina - ACCEPT
4. Aardvarki - REJECT
5. Lataro - REJECT (auto)
6. VectorZero - ACCEPT (auto)
7. webby - REJECT
8. BoomFrog - REJECT
9. weiyaoli - REJECT
10. more_people - REJECT (auto)

The proposed team has been REJECTED.




The current team leader is: Webby.
The proposed mission is: ??.


Proposed Team Member 1:
Proposed Team Member 2:
Proposed Team Member 3:
[Add as necessary]

Consecutive rejected teams: 1/5

3 days to deadline.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby webby » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:53 am UTC

Ok, I notice is that slbub auto-rejected, so I'm not going to propose a team until I'm sure he'll be around to use his power. Slbub, can you confirm you're here?

Aardvarki, I'm aware of all that - I wasn't proposing putting more_people and roband on the team. My proposal is that I go on the team myself, I pick the player I think is most townie, and one other player who will have 'In the spotlight' used on them. That way, if we have a fail, the worst case is that there are two spies out of the other six (ie we'll already have increased the probability of players in that group being resistance to at least 2/3. Roband uses his power on whichever of me and the other player he finds more suspicious.

If we were instead to do mission 2 or 3, we can't get as much information. If we have a fail, we have no idea who it is between three players, instead of between two.

What does everyone else think? We're only hearing from a very small number of people here, and chances are some of them are spies.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby _infina_ » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:54 am UTC

What was up with the rejection of that team? It should have been a perfectly acceptable first mission, and everyone but me and VZ rejected it. Mind you that three failed to vote on the team. I will reject any missions that are not two or three, for your information. Those two, while not the greatest chances of success, will serve to help narrow down a trustworthy group for further missions, should we need them.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby webby » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:02 am UTC

Infina, if you read the thread, you'll see why.

Basically, I rejected it for two reasons:
1. Incorrect distribution of powers based on who was going on the team.
2. Stops all the power being in one person's hands - ie we don't let VectorZero both choose the team and distribute the powers.

Also, we're nowhere near 5 consecutive rejections, so there's no penalty for rejecting it.

Finally, I've shown how mission 1 narrows things down more than missions 2/3, what makes you think differently? I understand the argument about not wasting the missions with the best chance of success, but I don't see how doing missions 2/3 now gives any useful information at all - it just seems like a likely fail with no great gain.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby _infina_ » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:40 am UTC

webby, you have brought to my realization something important.

I, unfortunately, need a replacement. Need to take care of a family member after emergency knee surgery.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:08 am UTC

Hmm, with the new Eye on You if we use Spotlight and Eye then the mission is virtually guaranteed to pass, but I wonder if it's overkill. Just spotlight on mission 1 will already narrow the spies to one of two players if it fails I think maybe we should save Eye on You until later. Opinions?
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby webby » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:14 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Hmm, with the new Eye on You if we use Spotlight and Eye then the mission is virtually guaranteed to pass, but I wonder if it's overkill. Just spotlight on mission 1 will already narrow the spies to one of two players if it fails I think maybe we should save Eye on You until later. Opinions?


That's not necessarily true because the spies know who each other are. If roband, who has the power, is a spy, another spy would be safe failing the mission.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby roband » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:33 am UTC

Yeah. but I know I'm not...

The fact of the matter is that I KNOW that I'm town, therefore the mission will likely pass.

If the mission fails, chances are that I am actually a spy, so you get a confirmed townie in more_people. I am telling you this because it is not going to happen. Well, it's unlikely to, since I am town.

Seriously, it's clever scum play giving a power to someone who is then pinged as scum by someone else with a power.

VZ blatantly gave the best power to one of his scum buddies, and this is the result. I've tried to be active and useful, but as implied scum, I'm useless.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby weiyaoli » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:39 am UTC

roband wrote:The fact of the matter is that I KNOW that I'm town, therefore the mission will likely pass.

If the mission fails, chances are that I am actually a spy, so you get a confirmed townie in more_people. I am telling you this because it is not going to happen. Well, it's unlikely to, since I am town.

You missed his point. Apart from how winey this statement is, at the moment we know that either one of you is a spy or both of you are spies. If we put both of you on the same mission and it fails, since you hold the power, we still know one of you is a spy ergo we receive no new information.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby roband » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:43 am UTC

But if slbub targets more_people, he will be forced to pass the mission.

So, from my point of view - as long as the third person is town, we're good.

And yeah, I know it's wine, just trying to get my point across.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby roband » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:44 am UTC

Also, both of us spies? Scum wouldn't be so stupid, what would be the benefit in that?

Serious question. Feel free to ignore it if you think it's giving info to the other side.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby webby » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:44 am UTC

The problem is that even if you're town, a spy could fail the mission, and say that you're lying with the result. I think you should use it anyway though, more information can't hurt and could be very useful to us later in the game.

Any advice on who to put on the team, or shall I decide myself? I'm still waiting for slbub to post before proposing a team, can he be prodded?
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby webby » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:45 am UTC

roband wrote:Also, both of us spies? Scum wouldn't be so stupid, what would be the benefit in that?

Serious question. Feel free to ignore it if you think it's giving info to the other side.


If we get two confirmed-ish townies, we might put both of you on mission 4 thinking only one of you is a spy. That's the only reason I can think of.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby roband » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:54 am UTC

Right. Ok.

Well feel free to exclude me for now. Shout when you want me to use my power.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby jayhsu » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:52 pm UTC

Effective immediately, Misnomer has replaced Infina.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby webby » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:37 pm UTC

Sorry, should have bolded this:

Can we get a modprod on slbub please?

Slbub, when you post, can you tell us whether you'll be able to post/at least use your power in the next two days?
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby Misnomer » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:42 pm UTC

Ok, first things first this in my first resistance, so apologies if I'm a little slow to grasp things. I think I understand the setup though.

Looking through the thread, I've got to agree that doing M2/3 first makes the most sense, especially with the powers active. If M2 passes, we can send the same people out to do M1 or M3. True, if it fails we won't have found out much, but I think getting a good subset is a risk worth taking.

That said, I don't consider myself bound by infina's pledge to vote against anything other than a proposal to do M2/3 - I would prefer M2/3 over M1, but I'd wait to see what the proposed M1 team was before rejecting it.

As far as roband and m_p are concerned, I think we should quarantine them for at very least the immediate future - they shouldn't be put on teams, or given any further powers.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby webby » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:01 am UTC

Misnomer wrote:
Looking through the thread, I've got to agree that doing M2/3 first makes the most sense, especially with the powers active. If M2 passes, we can send the same people out to do M1 or M3. True, if it fails we won't have found out much, but I think getting a good subset is a risk worth taking.


I don't think that makes sense. Mission 1 is almost twice as likely to pass as mission 2/3 and it actually gets us useful information if it fails.

I also think your strategy has to work at least as well for us if we reverse the order of the missions, but I'm finding myself getting mixed up on the logic of that. I think the point is that if we pass mission 1, then add one more person and fail mission 2/3, then we would have initially failed mission 2/3 if we'd done that one first anyway.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby Lataro » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:15 am UTC

Just checking in to say I'm still around and have been reading the thread. I ended up not voting last time (auto reject) because I kept getting side tracked by everyone's arguments. Personally, I don't care on the order so much anymore, I think we've focused WAY too much on that and less on playing the game, and think we need to just pick a way and move forward at this point.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby webby » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:29 am UTC

I think I want to do mission 1, go on the mission myself, take Boomfrog and weiyaoli, and have slbub use spotlight on Boomfrog. Roband can use his power on either me or weiyaoli. weiyaoli is almost a random choice (I'm just making the mission the people who were going to go on the last mission with the exception of VectorZero), but I looked through the thread and would rate weiyaoli as slightly townie. Nobody really jumped out at me as being particularly townie.

Would that be acceptable to people? If so, I'll propose it when slbub is around.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:45 am UTC

Why are we excluding Vectorzero? I'd like to keep the team as VZ, Webby, me because that's what was originally proposed and I don't like "random" changes.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby webby » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:49 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Why are we excluding Vectorzero? I'd like to keep the team as VZ, Webby, me because that's what was originally proposed and I don't like "random" changes.


Because i think VectorZero is more scummy than weiyaoli is. You FOS'd him yourself.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby more_people » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:54 am UTC

webby wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:Why are we excluding Vectorzero? I'd like to keep the team as VZ, Webby, me because that's what was originally proposed and I don't like "random" changes.


Because i think VectorZero is more scummy than weiyaoli is. You FOS'd him yourself.


I agree that webby and BoomFrog should be on the team but I don't think that VZ or weiyaoli should be on the team so pick someone else. Besides roband or I of course.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-0) - First Mission Setup - TEAM VO

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:02 am UTC

But with spotlight on him he can't do anything. It's essentially a two person mission at this point. And why did you propose using spotlight on me if you think I'm town anyway?

I'm on the road today so posting by phone FYI.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos
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