The Resistance 3 - Reset?

[webby]

Wait, webby auto accepted? Was that just because it was his suggestion? Yes, ok.

Err, I thought I had more time for some reason. Sorry.

Yes, the team leader automatically accepts.

Wasn't there still half an hour? By my reckoning it's only 9:30 EST now? But still, four auto-rejects? This game was so popular in signups. :S

[roband]

Well, I've made my excuse for my interest waning (and I still think it sucks) but this last week has been mental for me, which is evidently how I let this deadline slip past. Sorry.

[Misnomer]

Gah, for some reason I thought we still had a good half-day left to vote in... epic fail on my part >_<

[roband]

Gah, for some reason I thought we still had a good half-day left to vote in... epic fail on my part >_<

It must be a particularly confusing timezone to calculate from the UK haha

[Aardvarki]

I plan to reject any team that BoomFrog proposes with both himself and VectorZero on it. I think BF should propose the same team that webby just did.

Alternatively, I'd gladly go in, under the spotlight, in BoomFrog's place. But I know BF won't propose that!

[Lataro]

Personally, I'd prefer skipping the whole lot of them, at least BF and VZ I suppose.

If we are the do M1, I'd rather see a team from a different part of the list, as I don't have good feelings about BF and would rather see him off the team. I'd be okay with a slbub, misnomer, aardvarki team, as I think there is less wine in that team. Obviously I'm fine with myself being on a team, however, I believe in this situation (effectively no real info on anyone) it's just wine to say so.

[jayhsu]

Deadline may be extended if I feel people are AFK for weekend.

[slbub]

I will be away for the next thirty hours so I would be very cool with an extention.

and remember the more rejections we have that means that there is more opertunity that scum will try a team and we might just accept it out of neccesity of not wanting five rejections in a row, so watch what you are doing!!

[VectorZero]

Gah, sorry. Wasn't paying attention to timeframe.

I will be around this weekend, but sounds like others may not. I'm good for the next couple of weeks anyway.

I think given the controversy around Boomfrog, he should select his team and mission without much further input, then we comment. If he is scum, he may be able to swing a change based on someone elses suggestion.

[jayhsu]

Feel free to PM me contingencies - Vote APPROVE if x is on team, REJECT if not, use power z on player y if on a team, etc. etc. I am flexible. If I don't think you can set the contingency, I will let you know.

If necessary, powers are used in order by players on the list.

[BoomFrog]

The fact that there has been such intense debate between these two teams means that one of them has a spy on it and one of them does not. If everyone was clueless then one random team would be as good as another and things wouldn't be this heated. Just like a lynch on D1 gives lots of info for analysis, sending one of these two teams on the mission and seeing what happens will give a lot of information as well.

The two sides of the issue have been:
BoomFrog thinks that, Aardvarki and weiyaoli are spies
Lataro and Aardvarki think that BoomFrog is a spy and are suspicious of Vector Zero

One of these sides is correct and the other side is wrong.

We cannot reject the team I propose, if we do then the plot powers will end up being distributed by either more_people or Roband. Therefore I want to do an informal vote first. Everyone please answer:

1) Would you approve Vectorzero, Webby, BoomFrog team? (just asking since this is my preference)
2) Would you approve Webby, BoomFrog, weiyaoli team?
3) Would you strongly prefer a team without VZ, BoomFrog, Aardvarki and weiyaoli?
4) Will you be on Monday to vote? (I plan to propose my team late Sunday night)

[BoomFrog]

Just saw VZ's post. Would you like me to make my #3 option more specific? Unless all of 1, 2, and 3 are rejected I will be following one of these teams.

[Lataro]

I believe my preference was made clear in my previous post. I think it would be best to avoid all the wine here, as undoubtedly, somewhere in that bottom subset, there looks to be at least one spy. I don't know why you suspect Aardvarki such, unless it's because he disagrees with you I guess.

[webby]

I'm not convinced by all this - there are too many suggestions, so if Boomfrog is a spy, he can choose one of them that's best for him. I think either he chooses the same team as before (having one spy on the team is actually less than we'd expect from a random selection) or we make a pure random one (excluding roband and more_people because at least one of them is a spy).

We can't reject this team, else we immediately lose if weiyaoli and more_people are spies. That's not at all out of the question, especially given that more_people chose roband to use his overheard conversation on rather than weiyaoli, so I'd think that if more_people is a spy, weiyaoli is more likely than average to be one too.

[VectorZero]

We cannot reject the team I propose, if we do then the plot powers will end up being distributed by either more_people or Roband.

True (if by 'the plot powers' you mean 'second mission plot powers') but it's unlikely we can completely avoid a spy getting powers. Focusing on this alone, I assume you would want to pass your team, allow weiyaoli to distribute powers then intentionally reject the first 3 teams? Seems risky, just to avoid settling on more_people/roband.

1) Would you approve Vectorzero, Webby, BoomFrog team? (just asking since this is my preference)
2) Would you approve Webby, BoomFrog, weiyaoli team?
3) Would you strongly prefer a team without VZ, BoomFrog, Aardvarki and weiyaoli?
4) Will you be on Monday to vote? (I plan to propose my team late Sunday night)

1) gives me a lot of information, so, yeah, I'd approve that.
2) not so much information, and I'd probably prefer a 4-team without me on it to go first.
3) not sure why you said webby in your first two groups then aardvaki in question 3. Could you clarify please?
4) yes

[BoomFrog]

We only have to reject twice tomorrow before Roband proposes the 'agreed upon' team.

Why do you think a 4 man team without you is a good Idea? We already went over this, 3 man gives more info.

Webby has been on all teams suggested by both sides. If Webby was a spy then one side would have relented by now. Therefore he is not a controversial candidate and indeed is the most likely to be town from anyone's view.

[weiyaoli]

We can't reject this team, else we immediately lose if weiyaoli and more_people are spies.

I don't understand the logic here. Yes if more_people and I were both spies and then both proposed awful teams, you would want to reject, but that hardly equates to auto-lose. We would have to accept a team that will fail the mission though.

[BoomFrog]

Webby is right, its worse then I realized. If this team is rejected and the next two players are spies they can "fail to propose a team" which is an autorejection. Game over. We really cannot take the risk to reject my team. However I don't want to cram a team down your guys throats.

[Misnomer]

1) Would you approve Vectorzero, Webby, BoomFrog team? (just asking since this is my preference)
2) Would you approve Webby, BoomFrog, weiyaoli team?
3) Would you strongly prefer a team without VZ, BoomFrog, Aardvarki and weiyaoli?
4) Will you be on Monday to vote? (I plan to propose my team late Sunday night)

1) Yes, because I don't want to risk being at 3 rejections.
2) As above.
3) If the team had me on it I'd prefer it for the simple reason that it would give me more information, but otherwise I'm not fussed as long as m_p and roband are kept off of it.
4) Yes.

[weiyaoli]

Oh, I missed that point, yes that would make auto-rejection.

I'd strongly prefer that VZ and BF do not go on a mission together. No other opinions, except the obvious to not include any of (more_people/roband) in the mission.

[webby]

I'm worried that if Boomfrog is a spy, he'll pick another spy to go on the mission too, which would make spotlight completely useless. I have a strong preference for him not to be allowed to change from the team proposed last time, which should have been accepted.

I don't have any strong opinion on who gets spotlighted, slbub can pick at random if he wants. I don't think it's particularly likely that both weiyaoli and Boomfrog are spies, so from my perspective that team has a 50-50 chance of passing. I can't see any other teams that would have a better chance of passing and would give us more information.

[Lataro]

Oh, I missed that point, yes that would make auto-rejection.

I'd strongly prefer that VZ and BF do not go on a mission together. No other opinions, except the obvious to not include any of (more_people/roband) in the mission.

What?

How come YOU are agreeing to this point? You'd be the next leader, are you saying you are a spy, because your logic, knowing your role as an individual, should not be acceptance of this as a real concern if you are not.

Huge FoS: weiyaoli

[Lataro]

butchered that, fuck it, the point is clear...

[slbub]

ummm....

Please explain this logic in a not butchered manner.

[slbub]

@ BF

1 and 2 not really

3/4 yes

[Lataro]

The wording was butchered, the point wasn't.

If he is resistance, he would know he's not a spy, and that the threat of auto-rejection is a non-issue, it's pretty clear.

[BoomFrog]

Personally, I'd prefer skipping the whole lot of them, at least BF and VZ I suppose.

If we are the do M1, I'd rather see a team from a different part of the list, as I don't have good feelings about BF and would rather see him off the team. I'd be okay with a slbub, misnomer, aardvarki team, as I think there is less wine in that team. Obviously I'm fine with myself being on a team, however, I believe in this situation (effectively no real info on anyone) it's just wine to say so.

You say you want to skip BF and VZ, and you just Major FoSed weiyaoli. You know why I don't want aardvarki because of the weiyaoli connection. Would you approve of a Webby, slbub, misnomer team? It seems to fit all your requirements.

[Lataro]

Save for the fact it's non-sequential, at this point, whatever though, this game has gotten pretty boring pretty quickly with the incredibly slow pace of "Day One" since really, we've had no real info for quite some time.

[weiyaoli]

Oh, I missed that point, yes that would make auto-rejection.

I'd strongly prefer that VZ and BF do not go on a mission together. No other opinions, except the obvious to not include any of (more_people/roband) in the mission.

What?

How come YOU are agreeing to this point? You'd be the next leader, are you saying you are a spy, because your logic, knowing your role as an individual, should not be acceptance of this as a real concern if you are not.

Huge FoS: weiyaoli

???
I wasn't expressing concern at two consecutive rejections; I was stating that I had missed the rule that teams were automatically rejected if no team was proposed at deadline. See my previous post that asked we by why he thought we were in any danger of two consecutive rejections at all.

And yes, I personally plan to reject any team with both VZ and BF on it.

[weiyaoli]

EBWOP:
*asked webby

[BoomFrog]

Okay, the team I will post Sunday night will be Webby, slbub, misnomer.

Those three should be satisfied because they are on the team so they get extra info if it fails. Webby will be suspicious of me for ignoring his suggestion but hopefully the results of the mission will vindicate me.

Lataro said he would accept it.

I expect aardvarki to come up with some new rant about how it's a spy trick but reluctantly accept because rejecting is a terrible risk for town.

I expect weiyaoli to probably find a reason to accept so that he can distribute plot powers. Even though from his view a reject isn't risking auto-lose, he still shouldn't want to risk letting more_people distribute powers.

I expect VZ to accept because he's actually town and rejecting is a serious risk to town.

More_People and Roband haven't commented, if you guys aren't going to participate please at least tell the mod that you auto accept all missions unless specified otherwise.

Let me know if any of my expectations are incorrect before I officially submit my team. If this gets rejected it's really bad for us.

[VectorZero]

Why would you not include yourself in the team? Are you that concerned by what other people think of you at this point so early in the game?

Note this is not necessarily a criticism; played properly it's quite a townie move I guess.

[weiyaoli]

I am happy with accepting that team. Like I said the only problem I had would have been with a team with both BF and VZ.

I expect VZ to accept because he's actually town and rejecting is a serious risk to town.

Why are you so sure of this?

[webby]

Yes I'll accept that team. I would like slbub to use his power on Misnomer and roband can use his power on whichever of me and slbub he wishes.

I'm surprised you didn't put yourself on the team too, Boomfrog. I guess it was because you thought spotlight would be used on you and if you're town that's a waste and if you're a spy then it defeats the purpose of being on the mission (except in that you could get another spy on the mission for them to fail it). I consider not putting yourself on the team as a neutral tell.

I won't read too much into weiyaoli's comment for now - I can believe that it was made in the context of why the team should be accepted in general, as opposed to in the context of whether weiyaoli would accept or reject it.

Boomfrog, that is a weird comment on VectorZero being town, care to explain?

It's already sunday night here. Where in the world's sunday night did you mean? I should be on a fair bit tomorrow anyway - no danger of me auto-rejecting.

I suggest anyone who's online now sends a PM conditionally accepting Boomfrog's team. We can't have four auto-rejects again.

That's it for now, sorry if it's a bunch of disconnected thoughts.

[BoomFrog]

The reason for the weird on VZ comment and not feeling the need to put myself on the team is I am 95% sure that I've already identified all three scum outside More_Band.

Don't forget to send the Mod your preapproval of this specific team. The three of you, plus me and Lataro and presumably Minsomer and sblub means we've got an approved team. Yeay. I'll submit it Sunday night, or when five people have confirmed they sent preapproval. Day two here we come.

[BoomFrog]

EBWOP: It's sunday night here, but I was referring to time relative to the deadline which is EST. Unless my math is borked, the deadline is about 24 hours from now. I'll submit my team in about 12 hours.

[weiyaoli]

Submitted pre-approval on team.

I won't read too much into weiyaoli's comment for now - I can believe that it was made in the context of why the team should be accepted in general, as opposed to in the context of whether weiyaoli would accept or reject it.

I'm not sure how people are getting me commenting on why the team should be accepted because otherwise m_p and I would cause autorejection from this:

Oh, I missed that point, yes that would make auto-rejection.

I can see "point" is ambiguous when I didn't quote which bit it specifically was related to, but taking the second half of the sentence into account, I was clearly referring to the fact that auto-reject was possible from the team leaders not proposing a team, which was something I had missed until BF pointed it out and I went back to look at mod responses and found it. I wasn't commenting on whether I (or even people in general) needed to accept the mission at all.

[Misnomer]

Submitted pre-approval.

[Aardvarki]

I am willing to accept that team. My biggest fear for that team is the possibility that slbub and/or roband are spies. I think slbub should have his ITS choice pre-selected. The only suggestion offered so far has been by webby (use ITS on Misnomer). I'm okay with that. I'll submit my pre-approval.

Regarding the weiyaoli/Lataro logic fail, I very much see Lataro's point. Good catch, Lataro. weiyaoli, if resistance, wouldn't be afraid of the "last two failing to submit teams" strategy, because he's one of the last two.

Double-plus-FoS: weiyaoli

I'd like to bring up one thing that you said earlier BF, that i do disagree with (emphasis mine):

The two sides of the issue have been:
BoomFrog thinks that, Aardvarki and weiyaoli are spies
Lataro and Aardvarki think that BoomFrog is a spy and are suspicious of Vector Zero

One of these sides is correct and the other side is wrong.

Actually, it's entirely possible both sides are wrong. I am still operating under the assumption that you're a spy. You're operating under the assumption I'm a spy. There's nothing at all that precludes the possibility that we're both Resistance. However, to me, the fact that you state as a fact that one of us must be right, does look a little scummy. (Then again, at this point, you could catch three spies for us and I'd probably still think you're the last one) In standard mafia games, when players A and B are arguing, I often see "One of A or B must be scum" used as a scum strategy when both A and B are town.

[weiyaoli]

weiyaoli, if resistance, wouldn't be afraid of the "last two failing to submit teams" strategy, because he's one of the last two.

Like I said in my post above, can you point out where I actually was afraid of the "last two failing to submit teams" strategy?