The Resistance 3 - Reset?

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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby Aardvarki » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:44 am UTC

Also, HOW ARE YOU SO FULL OF SCUM YET CONFIRMED TOWN, BOOMFROG :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
-Aa
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby jayhsu » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:44 am UTC

If all the spies concede, the game will end. It's their prerogative.
-Jay
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby Aardvarki » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:48 am UTC

weiya, just submit a team. Let's pound this through, at this point I'm not terribly concerned about plot powers.

My vote's on #2 with us 3 townies and slbub. I'm submitting a pre-approval on any mission as long as the three townies and slbub are on the team.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:00 am UTC

The technically correct move is to do mission 4 first. Anything else is prideful, which I think I learned my lesson on. Although I realized it doesn't matter who distributes powers as long as it's not Misnomer. Just propose the team now and if we fuck up Roband can repropose it. There's really zero risk as anything suspicious will out someone as a spy making our win 100% solid.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:03 am UTC

Aardvarki wrote:Also, HOW ARE YOU SO FULL OF SCUM YET CONFIRMED TOWN, BOOMFROG :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
How could you have so many logic fails? You run wizardry you should be good at logic! :P
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby Lataro » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:09 am UTC

concede.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby Aardvarki » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:20 am UTC

I am good at logic! Where did my logic fail? Some of my logic was based on a bad assumption (that you were scum, which I had no way of knowing you weren't), but I find being aggressive gets people to spill the most information. I was completely convinced you and VZ were a scum pairing from the way you went after me as soon as I brought up the possibility. In Resistance, there's no fear of scum NKing you, so I can be the hardest most aggressive townie scum-hunter in the game with nothing to worry about.

You have to recall, all of my logic comes from the standpoint of knowing that I'm town and not knowing whether you were or not. I may have been acting scummy myself, but I don't think my logic was bad anywhere - I even pointed out one logical flaw in your thinking! Besides, at least one of my two main scum-picks was right! :lol: :lol: :lol: (probably)

I still can't quite decide on the roband/m_p though. If I were town in that situation, I'd be the most helpful town ever. Roband basically giving up reads like a scumtell to me, but m_p is the one spouting bad logic, so if I were forced to guess I'd go with m_p as scum. Roband is just unhelpful, m_p seems like he's trying to be harmful.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby webby » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:30 am UTC

Aardvarki wrote:I am good at logic! Where did my logic fail? Some of my logic was based on a bad assumption (that you were scum, which I had no way of knowing you weren't), but I find being aggressive gets people to spill the most information. I was completely convinced you and VZ were a scum pairing from the way you went after me as soon as I brought up the possibility. In Resistance, there's no fear of scum NKing you, so I can be the hardest most aggressive townie scum-hunter in the game with nothing to worry about.

You have to recall, all of my logic comes from the standpoint of knowing that I'm town and not knowing whether you were or not. I may have been acting scummy myself, but I don't think my logic was bad anywhere - I even pointed out one logical flaw in your thinking! Besides, at least one of my two main scum-picks was right! :lol: :lol: :lol: (probably)

I still can't quite decide on the roband/m_p though. If I were town in that situation, I'd be the most helpful town ever. Roband basically giving up reads like a scumtell to me, but m_p is the one spouting bad logic, so if I were forced to guess I'd go with m_p as scum. Roband is just unhelpful, m_p seems like he's trying to be harmful.


I'm still going with roband being resistance, the frustration feels genuine to me. Also, the power more_people got was the most useful of the three powers, so I would have thought VectorZero would have given it to a spy. If I'm right, then it was pretty poor play by more_people to say roband was a spy. It was also not very smart for VectorZero to give spotlight to a townie player - if he was going to make himself look suspicious by not discussing things, why wouldn't he make the most of it?

I also think it was a bad move by Misnomer to fail - having narrowed it down to 2 spies in 7, I think we were always going to be tough to beat from there. I guess the counter-argument is that we would have had two confirmed town if we'd passed, but realistically it had the same effect as me and slbub being confirmed town, simply because we were more likely than anyone else to be town - in fact I don't think we would have acted any differently at all had me and slbub been confirmed as town?

Summary:
We got lucky with the plot powers, we hit scum very well and scum didn't play particularly well.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby VectorZero » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:25 am UTC

Concede
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:58 am UTC

Aardvarki: I know you agreed later, but starting out suggesting a 4 man even after we got such good starting powers made me start viewing everything you said looking for the scum angle. Same reason I picked up on Lataro because of his suggestion to start with mission 4 (which I think in R2 he was a bit pissed when there was a clear auto succeed team for mission 4 so he wanted to get it failed or succeed early). Also your D2 start analysis had a key logic flaw that tried to make me look more scummy.

Webby: I think VZ's power distribution made sense and seemed like "hurried townie misunderstanding overhear" that he suggested a team immediately. There was pressure to do things in a fixed order, I don't think he could have done better without acting fishy (or more fishy i guess). I agree now that I know VZ is a spy that m_p is more likely the scum.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby weiyaoli » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:56 am UTC

I'll propose the mission anyway I guess, in case this is still going on (we don't want an auto reject):

The current team leader is: weiyaoli (more_people on deck).
The current mission is: 4

Current Team Member 1: Weiyaoli
Current Team Member 2: Aardvarki
Current Team Member 3: BoomFrog
Current Team Member 4: webby
Current Team Member 4: slbub
And you thought I was crazy...
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby roband » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:51 am UTC

Looks like you guys got this under control... Nice work.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby Misnomer » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:44 am UTC

Lataro wrote:concede.
VectorZero wrote:Concede

*glares*

I'm not happy about this - the odd's were heavily against us yes, but it was still possible to win until you gave up and confessed.

Concede ¬_¬
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby Misnomer » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:06 am UTC

webby wrote:I also think it was a bad move by Misnomer to fail - having narrowed it down to 2 spies in 7, I think we were always going to be tough to beat from there. I guess the counter-argument is that we would have had two confirmed town if we'd passed, but realistically it had the same effect as me and slbub being confirmed town, simply because we were more likely than anyone else to be town - in fact I don't think we would have acted any differently at all had me and slbub been confirmed as town?

I wrote a spoiler at the time setting out my reasoning. My thoughts were that if I let the mission pass, I'd have given a point and 2 confirmed townies to the resistance, leaving them in a situation where they would be certain to pass mission 4 (as even if we got lucky and had 2 spies on the team, we'd end up confirming the remaining town and giving you a clear shot at the remaining missions), and in a good position to pass either mission 1 or mission 2. Furthermore, as the resistance's information was inevitably going to grow as the game went on, it made sense to get spie wins as early as possible, even if there was a cost.

Of course, I wasn't expecting a double dose of well-aimed investigation powers...
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby jayhsu » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:05 pm UTC

3 of 4 spies has conceded. I'm willing to continue if the last spy does not, but it may be a foregone conclusion.

If *everyone* is willing, I will restart the game, as we did not even make it to the 2nd mission! I will not make any changes to the game setup at this time, but powers and roles will be re-randomized. I'll also allow the spies a 24-hour grace period before the game begins for spies to confer and PM each other (but they may not PM once the game starts).

Let me know what you think. Otherwise, I'll wait til R4.
-Jay
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby Misnomer » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:09 pm UTC

I'd be up for a restarted game - 24h pre-game chat is a good idea as well, it makes for a nice balance between the two extremes.
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby Lataro » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:23 pm UTC

Sorry Misnomer, but I really didn't see us standing any chance at all, realistically, not mathematically, r/m_p was lost to us, and VZ had no credibility at all among the rest of the players, of which they damn near considered five of each other confirmed. Even if VZ got on a mission, it wouldn't have mattered, by elimination, they would have been able to confirm someone else as town and easily win the rest.

We got completely destroyed by plot powers, which IMO should be removed, or at least, completely rebalanced. This marks three times out of three times that spies have gotten destroyed. R1, they lost without any plot powers to help town, R2, town played so terribad it wasn't funny, and the spies still lost, and here, there were some bad plays, but more than that, plot powers completely broke the game.

If it restarts, I'd rather be replaced if possible. Even with pre-game chat, that doesn't do much to balance against the almost purely resistance plot powers that were thrown against the spies. Effectively, spies need to play absolutely perfectly and get lucky as hell with plot powers to win, while town can coast or just use OP plot powers they get to win with ease.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."
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Re: The Resistance 3 - (0-1, Spies) - Second Mission Setup

Postby VectorZero » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:41 pm UTC

Yeah, I think the plot powers are OP for town. Not only in their execution, but in the planning stages. Scum can't obfuscate since they'll be caught out in a lie. Scum have to weigh the risks of linking to other scum vs giving town extra power.

And then the most carefully executed scum distraction plan can be undone by a single power showing them to be scum. Too much.

Still. I really sucked at this.
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.
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Re: The Resistance 3.5 - Reset?

Postby slbub » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:00 pm UTC

I hereby accept the proposed team.
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Re: The Resistance 3.5 - Reset?

Postby slbub » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:19 pm UTC

You can restart the game but just replace me if you do.
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Re: The Resistance 3.5 - Reset?

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:06 pm UTC

I agree the balance isn't quite right with the plot powers. The game needs some sort of investigations and revelations to deal with the lack of info from actual kills, but the possibility of getting a concentration of the stronger powers adds a lot of luck that I don't like. Ideally the game should still be decided at the end of the day by scum hunting. As VZ said, even if a spy is handing out powers they can't influence the distribution very much.

I'd play a reset, but unless others are enthusiastically for a reset I'll wait until Resistance 4.

More good spy powers, and maybe add ambiguity to power use so that a spy can successfully false claim which power he got to distribute. Maybe only note how many powers someone has and when they use one.
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Re: The Resistance 3.5 - Reset?

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:10 pm UTC

Waiting for m_p to concede so I can go read spoilers with a clear conscience.
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Re: The Resistance 3.5 - Reset?

Postby webby » Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:57 am UTC

I'd be happy to play again.
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Re: The Resistance 3.5 - Reset?

Postby jayhsu » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:01 pm UTC

Will restart tomorrow-ish. If you are against restarting and have not already informed me, please let me know.
-Jay
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Re: The Resistance 3.5 - Reset?

Postby webby » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:04 pm UTC

Excellent, I just realised I'm not in any games atm!
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Re: The Resistance 3 - Reset?

Postby jayhsu » Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:56 pm UTC

jayhsu wrote:

Game type: Open
Speed: Turbo-ish.
Bastardry: None

New addition: Team Leaders will now choose the mission they wish to propose a team for, with the exception of the final mission, which may only be chosen if the Resistance have successfully completed 2 missions.


Rules (tweaks for The Resistance underlined)
Spoiler:
1. You may only talk about this game in this thread and in an appropriately named spoiler in the Discussion Thread. If you are not playing this game, do not post in this thread without good reason.
2. You may not play to lose. This will be dealt with at the mod's discretion (expect an immediate replacement if you play against your faction).
3. Do not lurk. If you no longer want to or can't play, ask the mod as soon as possible for a replacement. If there are no replacements, you must keep playing until a replacement arrives or the mod decides to modkill you.
4. You may not edit your posts.
5. You may not post your role PM, or quote verbatim from it. You may paraphrase. Otherwise, you may say anything you like during the game.
6. Questions must be posted in

Bold, on a newline.

You may also ask questions to the mod in PM. You must PM all team proposal votes and mission success/failure to the Mod.
7. You may not post game content in this thread during the mission phase.
8. The mod's decisions are final.

How to play The Resistance (Please read carefully)
Spoiler:
1. There are two sides in the resistance – the Resistance (town), working to bring down an evil empire, and the Spies (scum), who work for that evil empire and who have infiltrated the Resistance.

2. In the basic game, the spies know one another but MAY NOT COMMUNICATE PRIVATELY. In a 10-player game, there will be 6 resistance operatives and 4 spies.

3. The game is divided into 5 missions.

4. Each mission is divided into a team proposal step (3 days long max), and a mission run step (~1 day).

5. During the team proposal step, the team leader (randomly chosen first, and then proceeding down the player list) chooses the mission they wish to propose a team for (with the exception of the 5th mission, which may only be chosen if the Resistance has successfully completed two missions). They may then choose anyone in any combination they wish for the mission, including themselves.

6. ALL PLAYERS, including the current mission leader must then vote (either ACCEPT or REJECT) on the proposed team by PMing the mod, who will then reveal all players’ votes simultaneously and publicly - you will know who voted what. A tie counts as a REJECTED vote. Mission leaders default to ACCEPT on their own teams.

7. If a team is REJECTED by the majority (or tie) of players, the next player becomes the team leader and proposes another team for the mission. Failure to submit a vote on a team proposal by the deadline counts as a REJECTED vote.

8. If a team is ACCEPTED by the majority of players, any spies on the team, if any, must decide whether the mission succeeds or fails by PMing the Mod. Resistance players automatically decide the mission passes. Only spies have a choice. Failure to choose by the deadline counts as a MISSION FAIL. You may PM the mod with your decision before the team is approved, but there will always be at least and at most one day for this step.

9. If there is even ONE MISSION FAIL on a mission, the entire mission FAILS (except for the fourth mission, which must have two MISSION FAILURES to FAIL). Otherwise, the mission SUCCEEDS.

Please note the difference between ACCEPTING and REJECTING a proposed team and SUCCEEDING or FAILING/SABOTAGING a current mission.


10. The Resistance win the mission if it succeeds.

11. The Spies win the mission if it fails.

12. After a mission is completed (successfully by the resistance or sabotaged by spies), the next person on the list becomes the team leader.

13. The first team to win three missions, wins.

14. However, the Spies also win if there are ever 5 consecutive team rejections.

To propose a team (make bold):
The current team leader is: [__].
The current mission is: [__].


Proposed Team Member 1:
Proposed Team Member 2:
etc.

The players required per mission for a 10 player game:

Mission 1: 3 players
Mission 2: 4 players
Mission 3: 4 players
Mission 4: 5* players (Requires 2 failures to fail)
Mission 5: 5 players

Role PMs
Spoiler:
Resistance Operative
The Empire must fall. Our missions must succeed.
You are an operative for the Resistance. You must simultaneously discern the four spies and unmask them, while ensuring that any mission you are placed within succeeds. Only with your help will the Resistance succeed.

You win if the Resistance successfully execute 3 missions.
You lose if the Spies sabotage 3 missions or if there are ever 5 consecutive proposed team rejections.

During a mission, you automatically select MISSION SUCCESS.

Spies
The Empire must stand. The Resistance’s missions must fail.
You are a spy for the Empire. You must try to gain the trust of the Resistance… before betraying each and every one of them.
The spies are: [___]. You MAY NOT communicate with these players privately.

You win if the Spies sabotage 3 missions. You also win if there are ever 5 consecutive rejected teams.
You lose if the Resistance successfully completes 3 missions.

During a mission, you must choose whether there is a MISSION SUCCESS or MISSION FAILURE. So long as there is even a single MISSION FAILURE, the entire mission FAILS (except for the fourth mission, which must have two MISSION FAILURES to FAIL). If you do not choose by the deadline (24 hours), you automatically select MISSION FAILURE.

Plot Powers
Spoiler:
These are the plot powers, and how they work:

Once at the beginning of each new mission, the team leader will be given three plot powers to distribute amongst the players, except himself. PM the mod with who should receive which power before proposing a team. Permanent and immediate powers will be used on the appropriate player immediately. Team leaders must distribute plot powers before teams are proposed, but discussion is allowed before they are distributed.

The team leader then proposes the team normally.

To use a plot power, declare the plot power you are using publicly in the thread. Certain plot powers can only be used at specific times, please read carefully.

Some plot powers have duplicates; these are represented by x2 or x3.

Strong Leader x2
1 Time Use

The player who receives this plot power may become the Leader. If this is used on a mission that has not yet had a team proposed, that player also receives the normal three plot powers to distribute. Two of these may not be played consecutively. This power may only be used immediately during or after a mission for use on the next mission (before plot cards have been distributed), or on a mission that has already been rejected once (before a team has been proposed).

Opinion Maker x2
Permanent

The player who receives this plot power must Vote first and publicly for the rest of the game (Vote in-thread).

No Confidence x3
1 Time Use

The player who receives this plot power may null an approved team and force a leadership change. The next player in line becomes the mission leader. This counts as a REJECTED mission. This power may only be used after a team has been approved.

Overheard Conversation x2
Immediate

The player who receives this plot power must choose a player directly before or after them in the player list. They are told the role of the player they chose.

Keeping a Close Eye on You x2
1 Time Use

The player who receives this plot power is told whether a specific player succeeded or sabotaged the mission this power was used on. This power may only be used during a mission on one player - you will be told the result at the end of the mission.

In the Spotlight
1 Time Use

The player who receives this plot power may select another player who must submit their mission disposition publically (PASS/FAIL) within the standard 24 hours. Resistance Operatives MUST select PASS and Spies may choose either PASS or FAIL. Failure to submit a disposition defaults to standard rules at the end of the 24 hours (RO select PASS, Spies select FAIL). This power may only be used after a team has been approved (please let the mod know that you are using it with your mission vote PM - feel free to condition it as you will). Spies may also elect to PM the mod with a PASS disposition to be automatically revealed at the end of the 24-hour period.

Take Responsibility
Immediate

The player who receives this plot power must immediately take a plot power at random from another player (includes Opinion Maker). This can be used on the current round of plot power distributions (though the player it was taken from is told what their stolen power was).

Establish Confidence
Immediate

The player who receives this plot power is told the role of the current mission leader.

Open Up
Immediate

The player who receives this plot power must choose another player. The chosen player is told their role (E.g. if A receives this card and chooses B, B is told the role of A).


Players
1. roband
2. slbub
3. Misnomer
4. Aardvarki
5. Lataro
6. VectorZero
7. webby
8. BoomFrog
9. weiyaoli
10. more_people

Players required per mission:
Mission 1: 3 players
Mission 2: 4 players
Mission 3: 4 players
Mission 4: 5* players
Mission 5: 5 players

Standings
Mission 1: SABOTAGED!
Mission 2:
Mission 3:
Mission 4:
Mission 5:

Missions Completed by the Resistance: 0
Missions Sabotaged by the Spies: 1
-Jay
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