KestrelLowing wrote:Dang, I don't even know where this discussion is anymore.
Welcome to my lifetime.
So just to clarify, do you guys consider Arts to be part of Humanities? I never understood whether Arts fell into Liberal Arts or not. Also, that very well completely changes a lot of your arguments, because there really is not much more for an Art major to do besides make something artistic, or to teach.
I was adding arts in there, and I'm still not entirely sure where along the social sciences that the cut should be made. I really do consider economics to be a STEM field, but I'm not really sure if political science or linguistics is. I could probably be persuaded either way.
Puppyclaws wrote:Kestrel, you are an idiot with no idea what working life, office environments, HR, and a real career are actually like. People who make decisions on college majors based solely on economic factors are foolish, plain and simple. The only way to have a good quality of life is to enjoy what you are doing, and people interested in English as a degree program are far more likely to enjoy a life as middle management in an office environment than a career in engineering. The real thing that the college debt issue shows is that fewer people should be going to college and fewer entry-level positions should require college degrees, but unfortunately that ship has sailed.
In the long term, if you want to make as much money as possible, you are also better off going into a business program and then getting an MBA than going into most STEM programs. Sure, evidence shows that nobody learns anything in these programs, but it also shows they go on to make a lot of money, and if that's all you're after, hey.
On the topic as it started: Yes, I am totally "major-ist." People like KL and gorcee are the definition of why. The tendency to be condescending and call it "logic" is not the sole property of STEM students, but they are in my experience the biggest offenders, far and away.
Thank you ever so much for saying I'm an idiot. I really didn't see it before, but now, with you're magnificent rhetoric, I can totally understand[/sarcasm]
I have worked in an office environment for nearly two years in three different industries and I still have three semesters in college to go. I've worked at a small manufacturing facility, a large aerospace company, and a nuclear power plant. I think I know just as much about working life, offices, HR, and a real career as the average 25 year old that got an office job right out of college. I'm actually quite knowledgeable in that area with several different kinds of companies.
So I know exactly how it feels and how horrible it is if you don't get to use the abilities you learned in college. I don't want all humanities majors to be stuck in an entry level office job or working for Starbucks. If you're good, you won't be, but if you're average, there's a good chance you might be. If you have marketable skills, you might be able to get into a better job. Typically, marketable skills come from STEM majors. Yes, I'm lucky that my interests happen to align with something that is economically viable, and I realize that if they didn't, it would be very difficult to go against that, but it's something you have to consider.
I agree that less jobs should require college degrees, as I've said before, and I totally understand that some people would much rather have a management job than an engineering one. (HOWEVER, if you are ever managing anyone in the STEM field, please, please try to do some research and learn what it is they actually do. So many problems are caused because management doesn't understand what it is their 'minions' do.[/soapbox]) The question is then, how likely will it be than a religion studies major will be able to get a management job and not be filing papers? It might actually be more likely that you'd rise to middle management from a tech field than from humanities, although I don't know.
Also, I never advocated for getting the most money possible. I just want everyone to think a bit about how much debt they'll be getting into. Is it worth it? Can you manage to keep your head above it all? Could you support a family if you want one? Ideally, everyone would be above the level where they had to worry about whether the bills could be paid or not. I think one way to help with that is to objectively determine if you'd be able to get a good job with your major. Look at your abilities, look at the abilities of others. Does it make sense? Not sure? Maybe take a STEM major and humanities minor, or if you're a bit more confident take a humanities major with a STEM minor.
Oh and doogly, thanks. I think you set things out nicely.