xkcd

by **Ibarra** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:09 am UTC

tastelikecoke wrote:If all players submitted their desired night actions, but some of them are rejected, would night end early?

Can players change their night action after being accepted? (Just in case PM powers are present and players trade powers.)

Is the amount of categories greater than 7?

When all players have submitted Night Actions (whether or not they submitted an action that will push through), the Day will start early.

Players may change their action during the duration of the Night, but will not be told if their action pushed through.

I'm not saying.

by **webby** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:40 am UTC

Final question because it only just occurred to me:

Is the deadline hard or soft - ie does night start immediately at the deadline time, or when you say so?

If I don't get a response, I'll assume hard and PM at 46 minutes past the hour.

by **Ibarra** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:44 am UTC

webby wrote:Is the deadline hard or soft - ie does night start immediately at the deadline time, or when you say so?

The deadline is a hard one.

by **Ibarra** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:46 am UTC

Final Vote Count of the Day:
Hausdog (2) - webby, mpolo
mpolo (1) - Hausdog
tastelikecoke (1) - Misnomer

Not Voting (3) - cjdrum, John Citizen, tastelikecoke

Hausdog has been lynched.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The man with the robe appeared again. "Hmm... I see that you guys have decided to kill dog Hausdog? So be it then."
With a flash of light, Hausdog disappeared and a note was left behind. "Hausdog is a Dreamer."

Looking flustered, the man in the robe explained. "That was the Bolt of Truth. It determines the alignment (and subsequently kills) anything struck with it. Only I can use it though. It seems that Hausdog was a Dreamer after all. Oh well... good luck!"
Hausdog - Dreamer - Lynched - Day 1

The man disappears again. You all wonder what will happen during the night. It surely wasn't going to be simple...
IT IS NOW NIGHT 1. ACTIONS MUST BE SENT IN 48 HOURS.

by **Ibarra** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:25 am UTC

All actions have been sent in.
Day 2 has started.

Over the pseudo-night (after all this is a dream), a eerie silence filled the entire land. The next day though, the dead body of Misnomer was found next to a pseudo-tree.

The man in the robe appeared again. "Ahh! The Bolt of Truth also works on corpses. So let me try this..."
A flash of light appeared again and the corpse of Misnomer disappeared. A note was left. "Misnomer is a Nightmare."
Misnomer - Nightmare - Nightkilled - Night 1

"Congratulations then Dreamers! You made up for the mistake of lynching Hausdog! Only one more left. Keep up the good job!"
Suddenly as he appeared, he vanished.

IT IS NOW DAY 2.
DEADLINE IS IN 9 DAYS.
WITH 5 ALIVE, IT TAKES 3 TO HAMMER.

by **cjdrum** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:05 am UTC

Um... Nice.

So unless a Townie got in front of webby (somehow - I mean, look at his most recent post :shock:

), AND THEN went against the Town's plan with an instant kill, AND someone Doctor'd or Roleblock'd against the right Nightmare's kill... Then that's a scum-kill on scum.
Congrats Redirector?

I really don't know what else to say at the moment. I was thinking briefly about a mass action claim (to work out possible scenarios of what happened), but... What do you all think?

by **tastelikecoke** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:35 am UTC

Hey, that's what in my mind too. Mass action claming. Hope the mod won't consider that game-breaking, and I doubt it is. There are more scenarios I can think of here, Town grabbin' the kill, doctor, roleblocker, redirector, rolecopier...

In other news, This wiki page is quite interesting.

The Mafia Wiki wrote: Copy
Hide
Bus
Block
Redirect
Protect
Miscellaneous
Kill
Recruit
Inspect

Though it's not defined to be a list of categories, it looks like a list of categories.

by **webby** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:40 am UTC

So I did have a slight fail when it was 8:46, but the forum timestamped my PM as 8:45, so I sent another one at 8:47.

But I'm going to assume that my action went through, in which case someone (who I'll tell you later if we do this claim, which I think we should) is poisoned and could require an antidote if we don't lynch them and we don't think they're scum. I think we should claim - I think the more knowledge we have of who did what, the better for town. If we're lucky, we'll even get somehow contradictory claims. I have some thoughts, but I don't think I should expand on them until after we all claim. We should probably claim times as well - maybe convert your times to GMT?

by **mpolo** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:11 am UTC

I tried to Cop tastelikecoke. However, I got no result. No idea if I got blocked, someone else got cop or what.

by **John Citizen** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:13 pm UTC

Not much time, but I tracked webby. It was redirected to misnomer, who targeted himself. It seems likely that actions on webby were redirected to misnomer, which if true would confirm him as town. Can someone confirm/deny this action?

by **webby** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:25 pm UTC

John Citizen wrote:Not much time, but I tracked webby. It was redirected to misnomer, who targeted himself. It seems likely that actions on webby were redirected to misnomer, which if true would confirm him as town. Can someone confirm/deny this action?

So what you're saying is that Misnomer tried to kill me, but ended up killing himself?

I poisoned tastelikecoke - he will die at the end of tomorrow night unless someone gives him an antidote.

I'm actually going to be very cautious with what I believe here - it feels like there's plenty of room for scum scheming in this game (eg that the day-start message was altered to say that Misnomer is scum when he was actually town). But if this story keeps adding up (eg this explains why mpolo didn't get a response), I'm going to believe it.

John Citizen, what time did you submit your action? After John Citizen claims his time, mpolo, what time did you submit yours?

by **cjdrum** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:30 am UTC

AWESOME.

I used a Bus Driver power on Misnomer and webby, meaning that actions on Misnomer went to webby, and actions on webby (incl. Misnomer's kill, it seems) went to Misnomer

Sent at 12:51pm Wednesday (UTC), so about two hours after deadline.

by **John Citizen** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:37 am UTC

I sent my action at 1:19 pm Wednesday (UTC).

Some thoughts:

There is only one person alive with an incentive to lie.
Misnomer tried to kill someone, which was redirected to himself. (confirmed from my perspective)
My action on webby was redirected to misnomer (confirmed from my perspective)
cjdrum claims to have redirected actions between webby and misnomer.
If TLC doesn't counterclaim this, then from my perspective cjdrum must be telling the truth, as I know there was a redirecting action between webby and cjdrum and there is only one liar.
If cjdrum is truthful, then misnomer and cjdrum could not be communicating scum, and cjdrum is fairly likely town.
If TLC claims a failed chat attempt, then cjdrum is town.
If cjdrum is truthful, then misnomer tried to kill webby, and therefore webby is almost certainly town.
Mpolo is likely truthful about his action from my perspective as he claimed a failed cop before I revealed my tracking.

Claimed actions:
webby - poison TLC
mpolo - failed cop on TLC
cjdrum - bus driver between webby and misnomer
JC - track webby (redirected to misnomer, misnomer targeted himself)
TLC - ???

by **tastelikecoke** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:34 am UTC

What's with everyone targetting me.

I picked a Refractor power (this is not in any wiki). Any actions targetted to me will proceed, but the action will also reflect back to its sender. If that's the case, mpolo copped himself too.

It's supposed to be a copying power I think, since I didn't redirect my action.

by **John Citizen** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:48 am UTC

tastelikecoke wrote:I picked a Refractor power (this is not in any wiki). Any actions targetted to me will proceed, but the action will also reflect back to its sender. If that's the case, mpolo copped himself too.

It also means that webby is poisoned, meaning that we can only save one of you. It seems that, at least from my perspective, cjdrum is telling the truth, and is likely town, as it would be very risky to redirect actions between misnomer and webby if misnomer was scum with cjdrum. This also implies that webby is likely town, as because cjdrum is telling the truth, misnomer tried to kill webby.

by **webby** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:48 am UTC

It doesn't really matter does it? Assuming there's nothing really crazy going on, we can assume that John Citizen, me and cjdrum are town. Lynch mpolo, if the game doesn't end, then we win during the night (we take a kill power on tastelikecoke in case my action last night didn't get through for whatever reason).

by **webby** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:30 am UTC

Hang on, just had a thought. Can we really be confident cjdrum is town? Isn't it plausible that it was assumed by cjdrum that I would get doctor protections etc.? Remember that scum don't get nightchat, so he might have just got unlucky that Misnomer tried to kill me.

by **mpolo** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:34 am UTC

tastelikecoke wrote:What's with everyone targetting me.

I picked a Refractor power (this is not in any wiki). Any actions targetted to me will proceed, but the action will also reflect back to its sender. If that's the case, mpolo copped himself too.

It's supposed to be a copying power I think, since I didn't redirect my action.

This may have been interpreted as a re-direction power, so may have been blocked by the bus power. But then, I don't know who would have blocked me. Misnomer?

by **webby** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:39 am UTC

mpolo wrote:
tastelikecoke wrote:What's with everyone targetting me.

I picked a Refractor power (this is not in any wiki). Any actions targetted to me will proceed, but the action will also reflect back to its sender. If that's the case, mpolo copped himself too.

It's supposed to be a copying power I think, since I didn't redirect my action.

This may have been interpreted as a re-direction power, so may have been blocked by the bus power. But then, I don't know who would have blocked me. Misnomer?

I would assume you got blocked by the fact that John Citizen had already put a copping power in.

by **tastelikecoke** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:37 pm UTC

I forgot to say. I submitted my action Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:19 pm UTC. Time stamps are hella confusing =_=

I haven't received anything about having been poisoned. And if the bus is true, then Misnomer is the one poisoned (but he was killed anyway).

JC and mpolo's roles are likely to be the same categories, so wouldn't that mean mpolo was blocked because JC submitted first? The timestamp's the key I guess, disregarding that scum could time travel (lie about timestamps).

by **mpolo** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:11 pm UTC

Ah. That would be it. I was pretty late getting to the submission party because deadline hit while I was asleep.

by **mpolo** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:35 pm UTC

Specifically: Sent: Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:17 pm UTC

by **John Citizen** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:51 pm UTC

webby wrote:Hang on, just had a thought. Can we really be confident cjdrum is town? Isn't it plausible that it was assumed by cjdrum that I would get doctor protections etc.? Remember that scum don't get nightchat, so he might have just got unlucky that Misnomer tried to kill me.

This is of course a possibility. However, it's a risk that I wouldn't take as scum. Based on the fact that, barring any crazy actions like false alignment announcing, I know that misnomer tried to kill webby, cjdrum is truthful and mpolo is likely truthful as he announced his cop was blocked before I announced that I tracked webby/misnomer, my scale of suspicion is:

TOWN
---confirmed---
webby
---near-confirmed---
cjdrum
---likely---
mpolo
---neutral---
tastelikecoke
---likely---
SCUM

Tastelikecoke is on the scum side by simple elimination; as webby/cjdrum/mpolo are more likely to be town than not, someone must be on the scummy side.

Would we be told if it is LYLO?

by **Ibarra** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:26 pm UTC

John Citizen wrote:Would we be told if it is LYLO?

No, but this game does have an open set-up.

by **webby** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:12 am UTC

I don't think LYLO is defined very well in a game like this anyway.

Ok, so pretty sure I'm a confirmed townie. John Citizen looks pretty townie, barring the possibility that he stole the cop power as scum. Again, this isn't implausible, in fact I think it would be a pretty clever scum move. It ensures town doesn't get a cop, it gives him townie cred, and it's not likely to conflict with what his partner is doing. But I'll put him as 'likely town' for now.

I'm not convinced that redirecting things between me and Misnomer is such a townie move - as the appointed killer, I would have expected to get doctoring etc. I don't know if I would have been expected to be nightkilled, I think that could have been any of John Citizen, mpolo or me. But risky scum move, so again, likely town.

That leaves mpolo and tastelikecoke. I reckon we lynch one, kill the other during the night (we're at 5-1, so we only want three deaths, not four). If nobody objects to this plan, I think I'm going to vote for mpolo. If a townie could get the redirector power, that would be great (swap actions between me and cjdrum for example).

by **cjdrum** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:54 am UTC

So, from my opinion:
webby is confirmed Town (definitely targeted by kill - which must've come from scum, unless webby attempted to instantly kill himself, actually killing Misnomer)
John Citizen confirmed that Misnomer targeted himself, which he would have no way of knowing if he didn't actually track Misnomer. If he were the other Nightmare, he wouldn't have to Track the first, so fairly likely town.
tastelikecoke and mpolo have nothing for or against them, but zero is still less than positive.

I reckon lynching one of mpolo and tastelikecoke, then killing the other at night, is a good way to go.

Also, the reasoning behind switching Misnomer/webby: Scum's gonna kill the person they think is helping the Town in finding them the most. That was webby. Misnomer was a completely random choice, since I didn't really know who else was actually scummy after Hausdog was lynched.

by **webby** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:25 am UTC

cjdrum wrote:John Citizen confirmed that Misnomer targeted himself, which he would have no way of knowing if he didn't actually track Misnomer. If he were the other Nightmare, he wouldn't have to Track the first, so fairly likely town.

I'm actually wavering a bit here. The point of tracking your scum partner might be to try and coordinate things - it might help scum if they knew what each other were doing. I think the more townie move would be to cop rather than track.

John Citizen - why track rather than cop?

by **John Citizen** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:50 am UTC

webby wrote:John Citizen - why track rather than cop?

I tracked you because you were our designated killer. If you turned out to be scum, you easily could have given false information on who you poisoned. This could have led to a lot of problems as town.

cjdrum wrote:John Citizen confirmed that Misnomer targeted himself, which he would have no way of knowing if he didn't actually track Misnomer. If he were the other Nightmare, he wouldn't have to Track the first, so fairly likely town.

I didn't originally track misnomer. It was webby, but it got redirected.

Plan:

D2:
Lynch mpolo.

N2:
TLC doctors webby (obviously only if town)
TLC dies from poison.
Webby cops one of CJ/JC
Whoever is town out of CJ/JC roleblocks the other.

D3:
Lynch the scum result out of CJ/JC.

If mpolo is scum, town win on lynch.
If TLC is scum, maximum two nightkills leave sole town survivor. If TLC self-cures, lynch TLC in the day.
If CJ/JC is scum, scum have no action. Lynch determined by webby's result.
Webby is practically confirmed town.

The only issue I see with the above plan is that if the scum steal the roleblock and roleblock webby. This is only an issue if one of CJ/JC is scum. If this occurs, it'd be a toss-up as to who gets lynched in the day (ie. 50% chance town win). Any suggestions to fix this issue?

by **John Citizen** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:55 am UTC

EBWOP: Hang on, if instead of doctoring webby, TLC uses reflector on webby, then scum can't roleblock webby's cop result.

Also: How many actions does a roleblock block?

by **mpolo** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:50 pm UTC

I'm not sure what I can say to the arguments against me, since they seem to be "Let's lynch mpolo and see what happens." As John Citizen pointed out, I revealed that my cop had been blocked before anybody else admitted to having sent in a cop power. That should count for something (rather than zero, as someone put it there).

by **webby** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:53 am UTC

mpolo wrote:I'm not sure what I can say to the arguments against me, since they seem to be "Let's lynch mpolo and see what happens." As John Citizen pointed out, I revealed that my cop had been blocked before anybody else admitted to having sent in a cop power. That should count for something (rather than zero, as someone put it there).

Yeah, the only real reason we're looking to lynch you is because we have reasons to believe that me, John Citizen and cjdrum are town, and TLC is going to die during the night anyway.

I think John Citizen's strategy is good. The only potential flaw is if TLC wasn't poisoned for some reason - say for example he's lying and he actually roleblocked me. Then he nightkills two players and we lose.

I'd be happier killing TLC directly. TLC gives me an antidote in the (unlikely) case he's town. It's important that if we're wrong about mpolo/TLC being town, the townie out of JC and cjdrum uses a roleblock on the other. Then there can only be one nightkill even if I don't manage to take the kill and no stupid bus driver-like things can happen.

Thoughts? Times you'll be online so as to when we should hammer? I reckon I can make sure I get the kill by hammering and sending immediately. I want TLC and cjdrum to vote for mpolo first, because I trust John Citizen the most at this point. If he hammers, I'm sure we can find some good enough night actions to make sure he doesn't win before we lynch him tomorrow.

by **John Citizen** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:20 am UTC

Good catch. However, this still leaves a problem, namely that there will be no cop result by day 3. This would lead to a random lynch. Another flaw I noticed is that if a scum CJ/JC steals the roleblock, then they have one kill with which to use on the other.

by **webby** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:34 am UTC

John Citizen wrote:Good catch. However, this still leaves a problem, namely that there will be no cop result by day 3. This would lead to a random lynch. Another flaw I noticed is that if a scum CJ/JC steals the roleblock, then they have one kill with which to use on the other.

Yeah this is a problem which I don't see a good way around. When it comes down to it, if the scum is online at the right time and we're wrong about TLC/mpolo being scum, we lose no matter what strategy we use (for example they can steal a kill). You're in the same timezone as me right? Can we make sure we're online at the hammer, and I'll kill TLC and you roleblock cjdrum? If TLC is town, he can antidote me. I think our best chance of winning is for me to pick someone to trust in this, and I'm more convinced by you than by cjdrum.

We still need a response from Ibarra over how many actions a roleblock blocks before proceeding though.

by **cjdrum** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:43 am UTC

I'm in UTC+10, in case you were wondering

Question, though. Why do you trust John Citizen more than you trust me?

by **webby** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:54 am UTC

cjdrum wrote:I'm in UTC+10, in case you were wondering

Question, though. Why do you trust John Citizen more than you trust me?

All three of us are in the same timezone then?

It's only very slightly, I'd be very surprised if mpolo or TLC weren't scum, but John Citizen has been contributing well to the discussion and coming up with some good ideas and refutations of not-so-good ideas.

by **Ibarra** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:13 am UTC

A roleblock will block the first action sent in.

by **tastelikecoke** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:52 am UTC

Quite interesting that most of us here have close time zones (incl. the mod) Guess that's less "nobody's online" moments for me.

Either way, it seems that by the virtue of logical deduction mpolo and me are the lynch candidates. It feels awfully similar to the case of dotproduct's Dethy, but anyway. About the D2 powers,

John Citizen wrote:EBWOP: Hang on, if instead of doctoring webby, TLC uses reflector on webby, then scum can't roleblock webby's cop result.

It's refractor, gorramit. I can't target this power to anyone, since it's a passive action that copies whatever night action is sent to me and uses it against the sender. Plus the night action doesn't get blocked, so if webby did the poison, it means that we're both poisoned. Whatever "can't roleblock" means, I'm fairly sure the refractor wouldn't work well. Doctoring would work well. Or the antidote.

I wouldn't mind if webby has a murderous intent on me, though it would nicer to cop CJ/JC. but I'm concerned that this plan is purely against mpolo, and that I'm left alive because I would die anyway.

by **webby** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:48 am UTC

John Citizen, are you around?

TLC, could you vote for mpolo please?

mpolo, do you have any objections to being lynched?

by **mpolo** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:43 am UTC

Obviously, I object to being lynched. With the way time zones work on this game, though, it's pretty impossible that I defend myself or do anything useful at night.

by **tastelikecoke** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:52 am UTC

webby wrote:TLC, could you vote for mpolo please?

You're welcome, Dear webby.

vote: mpolo

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