Re: [Micro] Lataro's PYP BASTARD SNES-Game Over: Bro's 4ever

[ForAllOfThis]

Well it's not me. Or if it is I haven't been told.

From the flavour there's a castle and a non-human entity.

Games with castles:

Secret of Mana, Lord of the Rings.

Games with non-humans: All of them except cricket.

I think that would rule out cricket. Unless the bad-guy is an evil bat or wicket. To be honest I'm leaning more towards the top. If this is a scum ploy then it's possible ibarra or e_e were taken. Any ideas on how to retrieve them? This has trap written all over it.

[existential_elevator]

I'm not taken! The mod is too afraid of me.

[webby]

It's not me that's been taken. The flavour suggests one of us has been replaced by an imposter - so be on the lookout for people who are acting strangely. Lorenz, are you here? Could this have been caused by the vegetables at all?

And e_e, can you clarify? I get that you have a posting restriction where you have to say something bad about the mod in every post, but do you actually have to lynch Lataro? And can you vote for someone else (preferably yourself) and get Lataro to show the votals to confirm to us whether you have a double vote that applies to everyone?

[existential_elevator]

And e_e, can you clarify? I get that you have a posting restriction where you have to say something bad about the mod in every post, but do you actually have to lynch Lataro? And can you vote for someone else (preferably yourself) and get Lataro to show the votals to confirm to us whether you have a double vote that applies to everyone?

You've hit the nail in one, my friend, and out-witted our somewhat slow overlord, Mr Lataro.

As you requested:

vote: e_e

[Ibarra]

I wasn't taken either.
It could be one of those flavors that don't do anything.
Something like that happened in PyP NES.

[Lataro]

Votals:

e_e - 2 - (e_e)

Seven alive, Four to lynch, go get her guys!

[existential_elevator]

unvote: e_e

Lataro, if it's the last thing I do, I will see to it you get lynched. I consider you my mortal enemy, and will never forgive you for the atrocities you have committed against my people. We, as players, must unite and overthrow your shoddy autocracy!

[Lorenz]

Quick post. (My time for posting is much later, but I can manage a quick one)

I did eat the veggie, but I wouldn't think that would have caused my, or anybody else's disappearance. It's possible but unlikely.
Unless anyone claims that something happened to them I'm going to think it's just flavor as Ibarra suggested. Looks like my early suspicion of SoM and LotR is getting slightly confirmed. Still, there could be a castle just for the sake of this story that isn't in any of our games.

e_e is acting strangely... I cannot make anything of it.

[cjdrum]

I'm pretty sure I'm outside of the castle too.
Although technically... Eh, can't be bothered with details.
NO FORM OF CJDRUM IS AWARE OF ANY FORM OF CJDRUM BEING IN A CASTLE. There.


Ibarra: I see a hole in your thinking there. In PyP NES, the flavour would've done something if the players had followed it. For example, the "scum" "killing" the letter M would've let people have kills if they had not used Ms or attempted avoiding it.

Also, I'm not sure how likely it is that:
a) The person would be told they are in a castle (I mean, seriously, who knows what the mod's gonna tell you), and
b) The person would want to claim that they are actually not what they are.
b.5) Kinda like Iago in Othello, but kinda really not
b.7) Also, flavour-bad-guy said that he's not stupid enough to just let us look and see who's missing, so I doubt he would tell the decoy, "Hey, you're a decoy, just don't tell anyone, lol!" - it's a lot easier to keep a secret you don't know.

[Ibarra]

cjdrum I was referring to this post:

Spoiler:

Somewhere, deep within the realm of Videoland, forces were plotting to overthrow the heroes gathering to do battle with the formless evil that had arrived. They had grown to fear this power, and that fear breed servitude. Unfortunately for them, they had been betrayed from within...

"Hey comrade, so what powers did you get? I got a really neat role, my power changes based on what day it is, I can do an unblock able kill, a roleblock, and a forced vote depending on the day and circumstances. I'd rather not say the conditions that need to be met in case someone is listening, though I doubt that power would exist given the mod's dislike for it. What powers do you have, all I was told with my role was that you were metroid. We should refer to each other by our game in PM just in case, we can always false claim in thread."

No votes, deadline is 8 PM EST Friday.

Seven alive, four to lynch.

If I remember correctly, Lataro said in the Spoiler thread that he just made it up.

Incidentally, I've just confirmed with Lataro. Lorenz did not eat the carrot.
Lataro informed me that Lorenz didn't eat it, but when Lorenz said he ate it I double-checked.
He didn't eat it.
FoS: Lorenz
Why would you lie about that?

[weiyaoli]

I guess it could be a poison ability? I'm not in the castle either as far as I am aware so I agree with just probably the mod posting random things. I think that's everyone that has posted to confirm they were not informed of being trapped in the castle? In any case I'm not sure how we are supposed to rescue the "kidnapped" person anyway, even if it was a poison like ability that didn't tell the target they were poisoned.

[ForAllOfThis]

Hmmm, I'm thinking we either lynch Ibarra or Lorenz now. One of them is clearly lieing about the carrot.

Rescue the captive.

If I die then Ibarra or Lorenz would be good lynch candidates atm based on the new information. Worst case scenario from this is I die, but we may gain some information (and I might save someone).

[Lorenz]

Umm... I suspect some sort of bastardry. I DID eat the carrot... well, not all of it of course, it was HUGE. Three times as large as a normal carrot.
I simply took a bite (that's exactly what I said in the pm. I take a bite out of it. I didn't say "I eat it"... but I didn't think it would make a difference till now). So, I see some possibilities.
1- Ibarra is lying.
2- Lataro is lying, so I did get the effects and lied to Ibarra. (Or not really lying. What was the wording of me not eating it Ibarra?)
3- Taking a bite didn't give the full effect, which counted as a discard while I thought I ate it.

2 and 3 seem like the most possible scenarios. I'm leaning towards 2. We could of course, test those hypothesis by me telling you what powers they were that I could have gotten, but I rather not. Also, it seems more likely now that Ibarra knows exactly what kind of powers I could/would have gotten.

[existential_elevator]

We should clearly lynch the mod.

[cjdrum]

cjdrum I was referring to this post:

Spoiler:

Somewhere, deep within the realm of Videoland, forces were plotting to overthrow the heroes gathering to do battle with the formless evil that had arrived. They had grown to fear this power, and that fear breed servitude. Unfortunately for them, they had been betrayed from within...

"Hey comrade, so what powers did you get? I got a really neat role, my power changes based on what day it is, I can do an unblock able kill, a roleblock, and a forced vote depending on the day and circumstances. I'd rather not say the conditions that need to be met in case someone is listening, though I doubt that power would exist given the mod's dislike for it. What powers do you have, all I was told with my role was that you were metroid. We should refer to each other by our game in PM just in case, we can always false claim in thread."

No votes, deadline is 8 PM EST Friday.

Seven alive, four to lynch.

If I remember correctly, Lataro said in the Spoiler thread that he just made it up.

Yes, that post did exist. However, so did... this post, this post, and to an extent this post.

If he is able to give rewards to people who avoid using numbers and Ms, then what's stopping him from killing off a player via "flavour"? I don't exactly like the sound of one of us being "ROAST MEAT"

[webby]

I DID eat the carrot... well, not all of it of course, it was HUGE.

That's an odd thing to say, please explain. What gave you the idea that the carrot was huge and you could only take a bite out of it?

Sorry guys, I'm going to pick up on weird phrasings, just in case it helps us figure out who the 'imposter' is.

[cjdrum]

According to this page, Harvest Moon for SNES didn't have carrots.

I think that that's probably a problem.

[Ibarra]

Some time after I gave you the carrot, Lataro sent me a PM saying that you refused the offer.
Then when you said that you did eat it.

I did eat the veggie, but I wouldn't think that would have caused my, or anybody else's disappearance. It's possible but unlikely.

I sent Lataro a PM asking about this and he confirmed that you did not eat it.

1- Ibarra is lying.
2- Lataro is lying, so I did get the effects and lied to Ibarra. (Or not really lying. What was the wording of me not eating it Ibarra?)
3- Taking a bite didn't give the full effect, which counted as a discard while I thought I ate it.

1) Definitely not the first one.
2) I doubt it is the second one either. I can determine whether someone eats it or not in my role, so by saying that Lataro lied, it means my abilities written in my role PM are wrong. It may be a bastard game, but I assume that at least the role PM's are not to be taken with a grain of salt.
3) I doubt it's the third one too. You said that you ate the carrot, not bite it. You just doubled back on the statement a while ago by saying you just bit it.
4) That leaves us with a fourth option - Lorenz is lying.

Now let me ask again, why did you lie about eating it?

(Also let me state again. I have no idea about the effects of the vegetables I send in. I just picked carrot randomly since it's the vegetable that came into mind.)

Ninja'd by cjdrum:
I kind of doubt that's the problem. Lataro did confirm that Lorenz received it and refused the offer.

[webby]

You may trust your role PMs, there are no lies within them, I will assure you of that right now(unless I'm lying right now, that is.)

So one of Ibarra and Lorenz is lying.

I want to hear what Lorenz has to say before drawing any conclusions, something very weird is going on here.

[cjdrum]

/facepalm


Anyway, Ibarra. I responded to your one "flavour does nothing" quote with three "flavour does to an extent do something". What say you?

[cjdrum]

EBWOP:

/facepalm


Anyway, Ibarra. I responded to your one "flavour does nothing" quote with three "flavour could to an extent do something" quotes. What say you?

Fixed

[Ibarra]

Well I have to admit it it may indeed be an important part of the game, but I don't see how we're going to make us of it.
Maybe we roleplay or something? Like what FAoT did?

Get on a Horse and ride to the Tower.

[cjdrum]

vote: Resident of the Castle

[cjdrum]

I mean... The lynch is meant to be Town's primary weapon, right?

[Lorenz]

That's an odd thing to say, please explain. What gave you the idea that the carrot was huge and you could only take a bite out of it?

Sorry guys, I'm going to pick up on weird phrasings, just in case it helps us figure out who the 'imposter' is.

Well, Lataro's pm said it of course. This is about to become moot though.

Some time after I gave you the carrot, Lataro sent me a PM saying that you refused the offer.
Then when you said that you did eat it....
....Now let me ask again, why did you lie about eating it?

(Also let me state again. I have no idea about the effects of the vegetables I send in. I just picked carrot randomly since it's the vegetable that came into mind.)

Ninja'd by cjdrum:
I kind of doubt that's the problem. Lataro did confirm that Lorenz received it and refused the offer.

I like to lie to catch scum. When scum knows what town is thinking it's really easy to counter it... It quickly backfired, because I never expected Ibarra to know if I ate it or not. My plan was to learn wether Ibarra knew or not, what the effects were, because honestly, it seemed to good to be true (And that means it probably was).

Ibarra hands you a carrot.
Normally carrots are around 12 inches long or so, but the one in front of you is enormous.
It's almost thrice that length. You suspect that that it's spiked with chemicals that made it larger.
You think that it could be so healthy that you will be immune to all who target you, but it could also make you sick and unable to vote.

I mean... who wouldn't eat it if that was true? So I was really suspicious. If I had learned Ibarra knew what could happen with the carrot, I'd have suspected scum right away. Now, I'm not sure, but I'm still suspicious of the effects. In hindsight, I should have told you the effects eaten it. I thought I could be smarter but I wasn't.
I'm still going with my original instinct though, and say that it was too good to be true.

Knock Ibarra of horse

Seriously? I mean, what kind of hero are you that you can just jump on a horse and go to the castle? We need to level up first, or the monsters will kill us easily.

Searches for weapons in the surrounding areas

And be glad I saved you from a fast dead.

[ForAllOfThis]

Can PM's be quoted?

On recap (post-lies):

Lorenz lied. This means for certain that the carrot didn't cause the kidnapping. At least to me, that clears up most of the wine surrounding Ibarra, including the early game. When it comes to handing out presents to people, it's almost always pro-town to claim and say it was you handing them out. That way, whatever happens, can be traced back to the role.

The information given to us from Lorenz (which sounds mostly true) seems to indicate there's a 50/50 chance that the vegetable can do good or bad. Why on earth he didn't take that risk I don't know, altough I do think scum would be more likely to risk their vote for night immunity. It could be possible that he lied about the carrots effects or PM.

Effectively we have a lot of information about Ibarra & e_e. I'm not convinced Lorenz is scum yet but the lieing about the carrot so publically deserves a

FoS: Lorenz

although I am cautious about turning that into a vote. Out of the remaining three players I haven't mentioned; I'm getting fairly townie vibes from CJ and no real pings from Webby or Wei, but not a strong townie vibe either (which always un-nerves me a little).

[weiyaoli]

The only thing that bothers me about the claim is how Ibarra apparently does not know what effect each vegetable does but knows if it was eaten or not. It just seems strange to me.

[Lorenz]

If PM's can't be quoted, I'm terribly sorry. I never though that would be the case. There's the rule about not quoting your role PM, but that's it. If pm's can't be quoted it should be included in the rules.

FoS: Lorenz

Understandable.

Why on earth he didn't take that risk I don't know

I already explained, it seemed to good. A great lure to take it. I would not be surprised one tiny bit I'd have been poisoned or something similar, so I thought I could catch some scumminess by playing it as if I ate it.

[Lataro]

As Lorenz said, it applies to role PMs only. Feel free to "quote" anything else and claim its from a mod, it makes for a fine strat sometimes!

[ForAllOfThis]

My bad, sometimes the rules say you can't quote PM's full stop, sometimes it says you can't quote roles.

Back on topic: Yes but if you had been poisoned, you might have caught scum in the act. Surely that makes more sense than lying, which has gained nothing. Especially as you were told the effect of the poison (lose a vote). The information we might have gained had you eaten the carrot would have far outweighed losing your vote on D1. Further still, taking it on D1 is much more sensible than further down the line (d3?).

I can see why you might have been reluctant to claim (given the potential NK immunity) the powers but given you didn't eat the carrot (and must of refused straight away) claiming, what you have just recently claimed, would have been much much more useful.

[webby]

Ok, a couple of days to deadline? Thoughts?

I know Lorenz likes those 'deceptive town' plays, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's telling the truth here, but it wasn't a very pro-town thing to do to not eat it. If the effects had been contrary to those described, we could have just lynched Ibarra.

So still slightly suspicious of Lorenz (I seem to be suspicious of him a lot recently, in lots of games ). The town farmer story from Ibarra checks out if the effects are as described to Lorenz.

e_e has claimed mod's lyncher. No idea what alignment that would be, assuming she's telling the truth. Would like some more content and useful stuff, don't get tied down by/hide behind your posting restriction.

FOAT has been reasonably logical so far. That leaves weiyaoli and roband, who I haven't picked up any scumtells from either.

Basically all I can say is that I have absolutely no idea what's going on in this game...

[webby]

And by roband I mean cjdrum. Mind frazzled by having four different games to post in...

Probably good I'm not picking up scumtells from him given that he's not in the game.

[webby]

Although, when I look again at his posts, there are some oddities.

cjdrum, what's with the weirdness of the numbered lists? What's with the 'ROAST MEAT' in capital letters? Just a few phrasings here and there that appear to be a bit off.

[cjdrum]

Hi! I had a post about that roband/cjdrum mistake, then you ninja'd me.

The... What weirdness? And, the "ROAST MEAT" in all caps was a direct quote from the castle flavour. Fifth- and fourth-last words.

[Ibarra]

Actually Lorenz, you fell into MY trap. Call it a gambit. I lied about not having any info about the effect of the carrot.
Lataro sent me a PM regarding the abilities of the carrot after I sent it to you.
I wanted to check if you would report truthfully the effects of the carrot.
His PM's:

Spoiler:

Here's the PM Lorenz received:

Ibarra hands you a carrot.
Normally carrots are around 12 inches long or so, but the one in front of you is enormous.
It's almost thrice that length. You suspect that that it's spiked with chemicals that made it larger.
You think that it could be so healthy that you will be immune to all who target you that night, but it could also make you sick and unable to do any action.

Lorenz refused your offer.

Nope, he did not eat it.

Notice how the "unable to do any action" became "unable to vote" in Lorenz's version, and how "that night" got omitted.
Not only did you lie about eating it or not, but you also lied about the effects themselves.

Now why would you alter the contents of the PM itself?
The original PM is now more "reasonable". Basically what it says is that by eating it, you would either be immune to Night Actions or be roleblocked on the night after you ate it.
Now the question is why even with the less "too good to be true" conditions, you still didn't eat it.

The only reason I could think of is that you didn't want to risk getting roleblocked even if that meant risking Night Actions targetting you.
That along with the two times you already lied makes me think that you're an anti-town role that doesn't want his Night Action to be possibly blocked.

Vote: Lorenz

[existential_elevator]

Nah, I think that's down to the mod.

Vote: Lataro

For the record, from what I can tell, I'm independent* and my only win condition is getting the mod lynched. I get a bonus win if I hammer, but I don't actually care about that. So yeah.

*This is not explicit in my role PM. It doesn't say "town" anywhere, so I'm assuming I'm indie.

[Lorenz]

Finally! We know the truth.
Of course I changed the pm, as I still wanted to know if you knew what the powers were. I changed the actions to those because I wanted it to be to good to be true for everyone. Truth is, that they ARE way to good to be true, because, well, I have NO night action, so the powers made no sense. Especially if you consider the power I do have (not a night action), which I will claim later if necesary.
I'm quite glad the truth is out now, and I'm very glad I didn't eat it.


It's quite fun that my lying causes you so much trouble, when you have been playing the same game. I guess we both think the other one fill in our trap, and it's going to be hard to convince either of us otherwise.
Vote: Ibarra

[Lataro]

Votals:

Lataro -2- (e_e)
Ibarra -1- (Lorenz)
Lorenz -1- (Ibarra)

Seven alive, Four to lynch.

Deadline in a bit under 48 hours from now. I likely will not be on at deadline, please respect it though.

[weiyaoli]

Wtf is going on between Ibarra and Lorenz? I'm not sure which of you the whole makes look worse.

I wanted to check if you would report truthfully the effects of the carrot.

Why this way? This way is clumsy and prone to errors. (why did you chose Lorenz and what did you even expect to prove with it?) You didn't even know he would bother posting the effects, so meanwhile you've been spreading wine everywhere about your ability. You've claimed early (for the wrong reasons I may add) to precisely be open about your role to reduce wine.

Lorenz lied. This means for certain that the carrot didn't cause the kidnapping. At least to me, that clears up most of the wine surrounding Ibarra, including the early game. When it comes to handing out presents to people, it's almost always pro-town to claim and say it was you handing them out. That way, whatever happens, can be traced back to the role.

It would if Ibarra claimed for this reason. When questioned, he replied because someone had said his game could probably be scum. I don't understand that motive for claiming early at all, why did he not say it was to clear up wine?

About Lorenz, I really don't understand how it sounds too good to be true. It says any action. not any night action. You said yourself you have an action that's not night. You would still be unable to carry out that action. How is it too good to be true?

FoS: Ibarra, and Lorenz

[cjdrum]

Also, Ibarra, could you have maybe tried giving a carrot to yourself before giving it to a random person who is unlikely to eat it due to not knowing the effects anyway?

You start by claiming as soon as your game gets a bit of rolespec suspicion. Then you give a carrot to Lorenz. Then Lorenz does what he claims is a gambit, then you claim that "no, mine was a trap". Gambits are often not what Townies do. Traps are what scum set.

unvote
vote: Ibarra
FoS: Lorenz

I don't know why, but I don't feel comfortable about lynching Lorenz. At least not today.