BoomFrog wrote:Bit of an over reaction there EP.
Well, you're the one who described the plan as "a disaster", so I'm not sure I'm the first one to use overblown language <_<
BoomFrog wrote:But you seem to have jumped to the conclusion that I've got this entire system totally figured out already and any mistake I make is on purpose to mislead town. I think someone is projecting...
Okay, point taken, but is it really that hard to make the leap from "Scum could have PGOs to kill townies" to "Maybe we shouldn't be totally excited about using active actions as much as possible"?
BoomFrog wrote:Doctor's are good because they can protect against PGO
Even if every player uses a night action, the chance of a doctor hitting someone who targeted a PGO cannot be better than the doctor's chance of hitting a PGO themself. And doctors also can't protect against PGOs against day actions, unless you take a day doctor, which is almost completely useless (well, unless the protection carries over until night... upon which we're still waiting on the mod)
BoomFrog wrote:Also the scum teams natural kill is not unblockable.
A fair point, but things like Passive Reflector are much better ways of dealing with the scum factional kill than doctor abilities are. Doctoring uses up your action and only blocks kills, not affecting unblockable ones, while Passive Reflector returns kills to the scum. One scum killed > one townie saved.
BoomFrog wrote:So more then 50% of the killing I expect to happen is blockable, and we need to prevent some of the killing because if we prevent none then everyone dies in one night and resurrect isn't helping.
The only serious "Everyone dies in one night" scenario is with a lot of PGO kills. What's the best way to avoid being nightkilled by PGOs? Don't target people at night! My cop master plan does call for some of the townies to be copping others at night, but unless we get astronomically unlucky, but by that point, we would have a pretty good idea of the risk of targeting scum, since we'd have a lot of cop results already.
BoomFrog wrote:Well that's assuming we have all epic day cops with night resurrections which is not what you originally proposed but ok, lets look at that.And you know what saves the cop plan from the kind of killing you're talking about? That's right, one-shot unblockable epic resurrects. They don't even have to be day-resurrects, they could be any kind of resurrection that's possible to use D1 or N1 - whatever combination of odd-night and X-shot you like.
20.25 for Alignment Cop. (Oneshot, Odd, Unblockable, Epic Day, Public)
They could easily take Day for 13.5 instead of Epic Day, since if it turns out that the scum suppress investigations, then we don't need to *actually* use more than one (or more if we don't trust the first person who uses it, but anyway...), and if it turns out that it does work, then it's more than worth it. And like I said, not *everyone* would need their cop to be a day action at all.
To maximize our point usage, we'd probably have a couple people take two-shot night cops and everybody else take one-shot X-night daycops.
BoomFrog wrote:Assuming six town and everyone in town takes that then we've spent 120 points, and it's countered by an Odd day Category disabler for 45 points. Seems like a loss for town now.
The math Does Not Work That way. If the town spent 20 points each, that's 27% of their points. If the scum spent 45 once, and there are two scum, then that's 30% of their points, and we're *already* ahead, even with your pessimistic assumptions about what town would pick. With my suggestions, we'd still be spending about 20 each on average, but the scum would have to spend 45 twice to suppress all of it, which would be an advantage even if there are three of them.
BoomFrog wrote:Okay, lets say half the people take Double public day cop and the other half take ressurects...
30.37 points for the cops (don't need epic day now only day), but we only need an average of three. That is at least break even with scum assuming 2 town points are worth 1 scum point. I still think this works better as a potential strategy that a few people choose to secretly take rather then a mass strategy where it is public knowledge who is taking what.
In case I wasn't clear, I don't think we should have an organized plan for the resurrects, I just think that each player should individually strongly consider taking resurrection. Resurrection is very powerful, but unlike the copping, it doesn't benefit from a rigid plan (at least, not any plan that I've come up with ).
BoomFrog wrote:Not if we have a clear plan to ressurect them in place, no they would not be confirmed anything. And they could false claim about who was the PGO.Dunno if we'd get their alignment info if we rezzed them N1, but if we decide that PGOs are scummy, then they're pretty much confirmed town for having tripped a PGO on scum while successfully copping them as scum
Unblockable public daycop, remember? Even if you hit an EPGO, your public daycop still goes through, and the public result will say who the action was used on. And the result will say that the PGO is scum, so we can just lynch according to the result. And, sure, we can worry about the fact that a scum player might have literally public-copped their teammate as scum in order to look towny and use up our resurrection... but that's a pretty big cost for a rather impractical gambit.
BoomFrog wrote:What was my idea first?
Epic resurrection being a totally awesome ability that everyone should take.
BoomFrog wrote:For the noobs (me at least) what happened in GGL?I mean, sorry to rain on your parade, but I really don't want a repeat of GGL.
Most of the townies wasted tons of points on impractical abilities and some of them missed important parts of the setup. We lost rather horribly.