[S] Designer Mafia - N2: Or, Self-Vote, Anyone?

[BoomFrog]

My plan would be step 1) all CoP/Possible PGOs claim both powers. 2) Cops call their targets as they cop them to out hidden PGO's if they happen to die and to prove that it was their use of cop. 3) we have several proven cops and several publicly copped people.

The possible results are: a) we find scum pretty easily because cops are clearing themselves and another or b) scum spent their points and actions clearing townies. It's win-win for town.

The possibility of confirmed town EPGO means scum needs to buy unblockable and doctor abilities which is a lot more investment for them.

The counter plan for scum is day doctor protecting a unblockable-day kills on the claimed cop/PGO's, but that could very easily out scum if we have a lot of creepy stalkers, and it might fail anyway due to a horcrux. Also, I would expect all the cops to be two-shot at least, and if we clear all town on D2 and the scum must be amongst the PGO's then we start lynching them.

I know it's the 11th hour, but do you see a flaw in this plan? The only thing I can see is if EVERYONE takes cop/PGO we have a problem but I assume only roughly half the town players will take it at most.

The thing with e_e is fairly separate. She is simply pinging me as really town for her strong desire to play a public hacker and I'm willing to trust her through D1. If someone else had jumped in and said they were going to be a public hacker/PGO I would have been against it.

[Elvish Pillager]

I know it's the 11th hour, but do you see a flaw in this plan?

Err, yes.

One, you're offering a way for scum to become "confirmed" town and be untargetable for the rest of the game, just by spending 12 points and copping a townie. Sure, weakens their position by confirming another townie, but all they had to do is falseclaim PGO...

Two, if we get one confirmed town PGO, then so what? The scum can kill everyone else, then lynch them. Or kill down to 1v1 and then use an unblockable kill. Or wait for a circumstance in which Manipulatives aren't disabled, and roleblock+kill them. (I asked the mod in a PM before the game started, and the mod confirmed that roleblocking bypasses everything else and shuts off PGO - I think you can't stop a roleblock+kill without Category Disabler: Manipulative.) Having two or more claimed PGOs makes it harder for scum to kill all of them, but in that case, it could easily go to endgame and then turn out that one of them is scum, which makes it worse than useless, because we can't use powers to figure out which is which.

[cjdrum]

It's now Day One!

Day One ends in 7 days' time.

[cjdrum]

The sky was lit with a bright orange blaze, killing many people at once!
Aro, Town, has died in a fire.
Dr Ug, Town, has died in a fire.

Also, daykill!
webby, Town, has been shot (with a Killing power)!
His last power used was a One-Shot Day-Use Category Disabler: Manipulative.

Also, another daykill!
BoomFrog, Town, has been shot (with a Killing power)!

With 4 players now alive, it is 3 to lynch.
It is now LyLo a possible MyLo.

[Elvish Pillager]

Err...

LyLo? What exactly does that mean with four players, at least two of whom are mafia?

[Elvish Pillager]

Okay, train of thought:

Ibarra claimed independent. We know there are at least two mafia. And there are four players left. So if Ibarra is indie, I'm the only townie and hence it's pretty pointless to talk town strategy. The only point of me posting is on the off chance that there's another townie, which would imply that Ibarra's definitely scum (since I can't really imagine a townie claiming independent).

Hence, not gonna talk about what happened just now, because there are at least as many scum as town, and so anything I say would only give scum hints about how to finish the game.

Dunno what LyLO means. If Ibarra's a survivor, (which I doubt, but FWIW) then ze'll probably just vote me, scum join, game over. That doesn't explain LyLO. And if ze's a jester then ze presumably won't vote for anyone but zemself. I doubt the mod would let me lynch scum on one vote.

cjdrum did say the game could be bastardly, though. The most likely thing I can come up with is if there *are* two town and we're being given a magical second chance if we manage to both vote for the same scum. Because normally that would be a deadlock, but... well, we already got the role reports before the official time we're supposed to get them, so it definitely smells like bastardry.

But if there are two of us then that implies that Ibarra's definitely scum, so we should logically vote Ibarra.

I'm gonna hold off on voting Ibarra on the off chance we'll get a good answer to what LyLo means, but if cjdrum comes back and refuses to answer or says something annoyingly ambiguous, I think I'll go ahead and place that vote.

[cjdrum]

There are ways that any faction could win. I was thinking, and it isn't actually LyLo, sorry.

It's just a possible MyLo. Sorry


Also... Due to the lack of living players, deadline is now 72 hours from now.

[Elvish Pillager]

Uh... okay, then.

Let's see... if it was definite MyLo - mislynch-and-lose - then there'd be someone who could be lynched that would make us definitely lose. But it's only possible MyLo. And I'd assume if I'm the only townie, and get lynched, then we lose, which would be definite MyLo. So that must mean that there are two town left, and two mafia. I don't know which of e_e and JC is town and which is mafia, but Ibarra can't be town...

Vote: Ibarra

[existential_elevator]

I'm going to hold off for content before voting but... what the fuck just happened o_o

It's around about now that I'm wishing I'd have taken the resurrect power.

[Ibarra]

Posting from phone... (capitalization still works though)

4 people. Possible My-Lo. We can therefore assume that we have one scum among the four of us. Elvish, I do not think it would be wise to lynch me as a) I'm a Survivor and I will lose if I die, and b) at the same time, you guys will be in a tough situation.

I therefore propose to keep to the norm of no-lynching during My-Lo. That way town may have a higher chance to win. (not that I really care, but at the moment that's majority.)

I believe town should FoS Elvish though as lynching someone in My-Lo may be disastrous.

Vote: NL

[existential_elevator]

See, I've never been in a game with a MyLo before. Could you explain why not lynching is the best strategy?

It seems to me that going straight to night is a bad move as it will allow scum kills etc to go through, probably earning them a win.

However: I'm also a little worried that scum might have a beloved princess that they want to throw to us, which would make night happen twice. If they're going to throw someone out to the lynch, then that could be a problem.

Equally, Ibarra, though I doubt you'd lie, I'm a little wary of "survivor" claims, since often "survivor" means "SK". Can you clarify if you have to be the only survivor? I'm also relatively certain that if I were in your position I'd probably be cozying up to scum, since they did basically just massacre everything.

[Ibarra]

Let's say you have a vanilla game. 1 scum - 3 not scum.
It's My-Lo (Mislynch and Lose) because if you lynch one of the not scum people, (75% chance) 1 - 2.
Scum nightkills, 1 - 1. Scum win.

That's why it's better to no lynch. 1 - 3
Scum nightkills 1 - 2. Ly-Lo
Only 66% chance of lynching non-town.

Basically it allows you to narrow down the suspects from 4 to 3.

It's a possible My-Lo atm because I believe that you guys have other possible powers that may prevent scum from killing.
Nevertheless, if you guys Mislynch risking it all on night actions is not worth it.
Better if you no-lynch, do your night actions then decide on the final lynch subject.

Equally, Ibarra, though I doubt you'd lie, I'm a little wary of "survivor" claims, since often "survivor" means "SK". Can you clarify if you have to be the only survivor?

Paraphrasing from my role PM, I win when the game ends. Either when all Mafia are killed or the Mafia control the lynch.

I'm also relatively certain that if I were in your position I'd probably be cozying up to scum, since they did basically just massacre everything.

Frankly, I don't care who wins or loses as long as I live. You're right that I would probably "cozy up" to scum and speedlynch, but as of now, I don't see it happening as we most likely have 1 scum. I'm open to supporting scum, but I'm open to supporting town too.

I'm openly claiming this as you guys shouldn't lynch me if you want your faction to win easier.
Scum won't kill me as they will lose a possible ally.
Town shouldn't kill me as it is currently My-Lo and that would put them in a very undesirable position.

[Ibarra]

EBWOP:
Hell if there are two scum and they want to speedlynch someone today, I can help them.
Though I don't see it possible as it is My-Lo.

[John Citizen]

Uh... okay, then.

Let's see... if it was definite MyLo - mislynch-and-lose - then there'd be someone who could be lynched that would make us definitely lose. But it's only possible MyLo. And I'd assume if I'm the only townie, and get lynched, then we lose, which would be definite MyLo. So that must mean that there are two town left, and two mafia. I don't know which of e_e and JC is town and which is mafia, but Ibarra can't be town...

Vote: Ibarra

Hmm... lynch immunities could change things considerably, as could horcruxes.

In the circumstances of both the presence and the absence of a lynch-immune and/or horcruxed townie:

Could 1 town, 2 scum and 1 independent/scum be counted as possible or definite MyLo?
How about 2 town and 2 scum?

Also, I won't have internet access between Friday and Sunday.

[Elvish Pillager]

May I point this out?

I can tell you that there is at least one town and at least two Mafiosi.

Every death at daystart was reported as town, so unless the mod is outright lying to us, there are at least two mafiosi among the remaining players.

I'm also really skeptical of the notion that Ibarra could possibly be a survivor or SK, even regardless of my guess that there's another townie in here. "LALA IM A SURVIVOR SCREW YOU TOWN" is not good or expected D1 (well, technically pre-game) play for someone who needs to survive until the end of the game.

[Ibarra]

Thanks for catching that.
2 scum and at least one townie.
That means scum and I can work together.

You know Elvish Pillager, you were kind of suspicious a while ago since you thrown your vote at My-Lo so quickly, so I think you're scum.
So that means either e_e or JC is the other scum buddy. I'll make a deal with you then. I'm going to vote either one of e_e or JC. It's a 50% chance that one of them is the last town. That's assuming that you are indeed scum.

If I do pick the correct person, you'll be wise to vote that person and have your partner jump ship. I took, like I said, Nexus and Commuter. That means I can in no way, interfere with the lynch.

e_e seems more townie because of the question about My-Lo, so I'm voting her.
Vote: e_e

[Ibarra]

EBWOP:
Unvote
Vote: e_e

[Elvish Pillager]

*sigh* Alright. For the record, the main reason I was keeping up this charade is that I genuinely wasn't convinced that you're a survivor, but you really do seem dedicated to lynching town.

Also for the record, my main worry now is that you're a SK who's lying and has taken major night combat powers and can beat us both in the night fight. If so, I guess we'll just see who wins. Anyway, not second-guessing the actions of other players has worked so far...

JC, let's lynch e_e quick in case she has any inconvenient day powers.

Vote: existential_elevator

I can't say "KILL HALF THE PLAYERS AND LYNCH WHAT REMAINS" was my most clever tactic to date, but it seems to have been effective so far. I wanted to do an epic scum power play, but there were just too many powers and had to settle on this as being more likely to work. My only consolation is that all your base are belong to us.

[existential_elevator]

But wait! You didn't anticipate my cunning plan!

Now, I didn't actually realise how redundant this would be in terms of game speed, but... well, you've played with me, you know how my logic works.

I took odd-day unlynchable, and one shot public hacker.

My basic plan was to act scummy as shit on day 1, get myself "lynched" and then have the results to hand to see how many people bandwagoned. Okay, it wasn't a great idea, but it was *an* idea, and would have saved town Day 1

I've obviously got to

vote: Elvish Pillager

Ibarra, it's really up to you. Either way, you're going to have to wait a day to get your win. Better to NK me.

[Elvish Pillager]

Yeah, that's a pretty terrible plan. What are you going to claim to have spent the other "like" 10.5 points on, anyway?

I'm not going to go for a scum lynch, and out of you and Ibarra, only one of you is voting for the other. I'd be willing to lynch Ibarra instead of you if you helped, but even if you're telling the truth, no one except you benefits from letting you keep your lynch immunity rather than using it up.

[existential_elevator]

It's only odd-day, so you know, I'm not immune tomorrow. I'm trying to save y'all an unnecessary lynch, here. Basically: a vote for me is a vote for no-lynch today.

I'm not going to make a full claim But I didn't spend all my points, and I used the rest on a fun one shot with no strategic value whatsoever. Because that's how I roll.

Am I right in my assumption that there are 2 scum and an indie?

Thus:

Indie - Ibarra
Scum - EP and JC

In that case, lynching Ibarra doesn't do me any good now, does it? In fact, I need to keep Ibarra alive and hope that I can survive night, then try to convince Ibarra to lynch JC with me tomorrow when I am effectively vulnerable to being lynched.

If I read it wrongly and there is only one scum, it'd be beneficial for me to get everyone to vote no lynch (before JC gets back?) so that I can confirm which of JC or EP is the scumstar with my public hacker skillz.

[Elvish Pillager]

lol. That sounds like a plan that you, me, and Ibarra are all likely to agree upon.

[existential_elevator]

Dude, your choice today is either

a) No-lynch

or

b) Lynch either yourself, Ibarra or JC.

I'd prefer option B, and I do not want to lynch Ibarra. So - you, or JC?

I can still get information from option A if Ibarra fancies running with the underdog. Presuming you don't kill me tonight, of course.

[Elvish Pillager]

That's if I unquestioningly believe you. Which I don't. Especially since, with no other townies in the game, you have no reason to tell the truth.

[John Citizen]

*sigh* Alright. For the record, the main reason I was keeping up this charade is that I genuinely wasn't convinced that you're a survivor, but you really do seem dedicated to lynching town.

Also for the record, my main worry now is that you're a SK who's lying and has taken major night combat powers and can beat us both in the night fight. If so, I guess we'll just see who wins. Anyway, not second-guessing the actions of other players has worked so far...

JC, let's lynch e_e quick in case she has any inconvenient day powers.

Vote: existential_elevator

Okay then.

Vote: existential_elevator

[existential_elevator]

Do I look bothered? I am so not bothered.

[cjdrum]

Likely the only Vote Count in the game...
existential_elevator (3) - Ibarra, Elvish Pillager, John Citizen
Elvish Pillager (1) - existential_elevator

existential_elevator has been lynched! Her role will be revealed in the morning.

It is now Night One, which will end within 72 hours.

[Elvish Pillager]

Would you consider extending the night deadline on the grounds that one-quarter of the remaining players have no Internet access for essentially these exact 72 hours?

[Elvish Pillager]

EBWOP: One-third, rather.

[Ibarra]

I think cjdrum won't be around to post for a while.
Anyone want to do the same thing I did in Mafia+Werewolf?
Temporarily mod the game?

[cjdrum]

That won't be necessary here. Thanks, though, for that!

In the extremely long night, stuff happened!
Elvish Pillager, Mafioso, has been killed by the Mafia! His most recent power use was a One-Shot Unblockable Epic Day Arsonist power.

Also, existential_elevator was kinda already dead.
existential_elevator, Townie, lynched Day One. She hadn't used any powers

Day Two! 2 alive, 2 to lynch!
That means it's a forced no lynch...

So send your Night Two actions now!

[Elvish Pillager]

So... with only two players left, one of whom has dropped the game, is this over yet?

[Ibarra]

Come on. It's going to be endless anyway.
I commute during certain nights - the kill will not affect me.
I nexus during other nights - the kill will just reflect back to JC.
Scum controls half of the votes - basically scum wins.
I win when one faction wins. No need to continue this.

[Elvish Pillager]

I'm not convinced by your win condition claim, considering that we have to kill you to win. Either you're lying, or there's some sort of bastardry here.

[Elvish Pillager]

(And, I know, game related discussion while it's night AND I'm dead, but this game also seems pretty dead and there's no real difference it can make unless Ibarra is majorly lying about zir powers, which seems pretty unlikely at this point.)

[Ibarra]

Let me rephrase that.
I win when the Mafia group controls the lynch or when the Mafia are eliminated.
What the hell cjdrum? Didn't the mafia already control the lynch when they outnumbered me yesterday 2:1?

[Elvish Pillager]

Well, cjdrum's been a bit of a bastard this whole game. *shrug*

I'm just going to assume the game is over and we win.

FWIW, JC's last few points were spent on an as-yet-unused one-shot roleblock, and I confirmed with cjdrum a while back that a roleblock trumps everything else that isn't unblockable. So JC could kill you N2 with the roleblock plus the standard mafia kill.

[Ibarra]

Except that Commuting means that any target on me would fail...
Well according to Natural Action Resolution, hiding(commuting) should trump roleblocks.

[Elvish Pillager]

...I'm sure I could look around the internet and find another webpage that says the opposite. That "natural" order doesn't seem particularly natural to me. An answer from the mod of the actual game has much more authority than some system that somebody else says is a good idea. If you wanted to be safe from roleblocks, you should have asked what trumped them rather than assuming.

[Ibarra]

Well IDK.
Mod has the final decision, you're right.
Incidentally, I don't think cjdrum has been paying attention to this