[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

[TheGrammarBolshevik]

What's the U? Just the second letter in "queer" and "questioning"?

[Aaeriele]

Unidentified.

(Those who don't feel like picking a term.)


=====


Also, for those who were unaware of it via IRC/G+/etc: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/1 ... 28285.html

[podbaydoor]

Awesome! I'm glad your story has a happy ending and hope it continues to do so. //crosses fingers//

[poxic]

Yay Aaeriele! I get all warm and fuzzy when haters get thumped (through legal and civilised means, that is).

[superglucose]

yay!

[Vaniver]

Congrats!

[Shivahn]

Yay! That's awesome!

[kinigget]

I just found that on thinkprogress! Well done!

[Sarr]

Congratulations!

[animeHrmIne]

Yay Aaeriele! That's awesome.

Also, QUILTBAG has no P, but I've resigned myself to the fact that and multisexuals besides bisexuals will never get their own parts of an acronym.

[podbaydoor]

I've always been given to understand that Q - Queer was the letter in the acronym meant to catch anyone else who wasn't specifically named.

[FreyasSpirit]

That's wonderful Aeriele!

And Natashasha, I'm glad you have wonderful friends

[animeHrmIne]

I've always been given to understand that Q - Queer was the letter in the acronym meant to catch anyone else who wasn't specifically named.

It is, and I'm totally queer as well, it's just kind of sad to not get a letter. If all else, it means that a frakton of people have no clue pansexuality even exists, whereas when people add the Qs and the As and the Is and the Gs they start getting recognition.

[superglucose]

Well to be fair, I'm pan and I don't identify as "queer" if that makes sense.

[Shivahn]

I've always been given to understand that Q - Queer was the letter in the acronym meant to catch anyone else who wasn't specifically named.

It is, and I'm totally queer as well, it's just kind of sad to not get a letter. If all else, it means that a frakton of people have no clue pansexuality even exists, whereas when people add the Qs and the As and the Is and the Gs they start getting recognition.

Perhaps part of the problem is that pansexuality would be the first letter that forces the acronym-writer to admit to more than a gender binary. That, unfortunately, blows many people's minds.

[superglucose]

You know my issue with the acronym is that it keeps growing. I wish it wasn't so damn long because it feels like there's this assumption that if you're not in the acronym then you're not included. If the principle is "you're included if and only if you're part of the acronym" then the community sucks because it's inherently exclusive... otherwise, tacking on letters to an infinitely growing acronym just seems wildly inefficient at best.

I wish I had the power to simply say "Why don't we stop using this acronym which is causing more problems than it solves, and simply make this a generic safe space for people to express their sexualities and genders?" "Gender and sexuality safespace" sounds a lot better than "LGBTIQQA" which should really probably be "LGBTIQQAGAPH" (to tack on "andro," "genderqueer," "heteroflexible" and "pansexual") and even then it's only a matter of time before we find the next identity people discover. It all really makes my head spin...

I guess that's why I don't really identify with the "community." I don't feel like it goes about it the right way and I don't feel like there's a cohesive community. I feel like whatever community is invented is really invented as a sort of "Us vs them" mentality which I think fosters resentment for people who don't think the same way you do (if straight people are "the enemy" then you start harboring resentment towards straight people). Heck, just look at the way certain camps within the so-called community treat other camps. Some LGBs don't accept the Ts, some LGBTs don't accept the As, and some LGBTAs don't accept the Ps. Then we're all boiled down to some letter.

I just can't help but think of going up to someone and saying, "Hi, I'm a P C." "Ah, well I'm a G Tm." Which, of course, makes me think, "Hi, I'm a M A C" and "Hi, I'm a P C." (MAC would be male-asexual-cis and PC would be pan-cis). But still, it's frustrating to think that this is how LGBT is going down. We keep realizing that gender and sex are more complicated than we've ever realized and our solution is to simply try to create more categories.

What if there aren't categories? What if we're all just our own individual people with our own individual feelings and own individual thoughts? I know that if you're "straight" there are wildly different views on what's attractive. My best friend is dating a girl I think is ugly and a total bitch... but he loves her, so whatever. Why not just allow that within the LGBTIQQAHCKPSDXXDD?

So that's my opinion on it. I'm not "pansexual" and I'm not "genderqueer." The most I can say about myself is that I was born with a penis and testes. I have some traits that people consider masculine and a lot of traits that people consider feminine. I would rather have been born with a vagina and more feminine traits than I currently have. When looking for a partner I prefer people who look feminine but beyond the soft lines that I prefer, I don't actually care what parts you've got because far more important is that you are a sweet, loving, and caring person. So far I've found that I prefer mostly feminine traits with a few masculine ones thrown in, but even that's not a hard fast rule. Beyond that if you have questions, go ahead and ask them. If you want to know if I could be attracted to you or if I am attracted to you or interested in you? Ask. But don't label me and for the love of god don't hear what I say and then respond with "Ah, you're clearly X" or "Ah, well you're not Y but you could X." I'm Superglucose, that's the only label I can safely wear.

[Monika]

Also, for those who were unaware of it via IRC/G+/etc: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/1 ... 28285.html

Yay!

- - - - - - - -

So where do we want to stick the P?
LGBTIQQAP
LGBTIQQPA <- I think I prefer that, the P seems to feel happier in the vicinity of the Q, it's used to being there in the alphabet
LGBPTIQQA <- makes most sense, but breaks the most-known / most-used LGBT acronym


I am pansexual (or let's say pansexual is the most appropriate term for how I feel to the degree I have figured this out).
I say "bisexual" for those outside the LGBT community who are unlikely to know the word.
I like the abbreviation LGBTIQQA the most. I don't mind that there is no P. I find it is sufficiently covered by an intersection / mix / approximation of B, Q and A.
I also don't think LGBTIQQA denies that there are more than two gender identities. Transgender also encompasses genderqueer people, not just FTM and MTF transgender people.
And queer catches sexual orientations that go beyond homo-hetero-bi-a-sexual, so what could that be besides pan/multisexual? If there were only two genders, the four categories would cover everybody.
But: If it hurts other pansexual people that there is no P ... let's add it.

Recently I was googling something related to this, not sure exactly what it was. I had thought LGBTIQQA plus possibly P would cover everybody. But in other communities apparently there were discussions about adding M for multisexual, O for omnisexual and/or U for Unidentified for those who don't want a label/box ... in the end they changed from various LGBTQ extensions to MSAGI for Minority Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity (not sure why an A and no O is used). The problem with that is that it is hardly known and few people understand it.

[animeHrmIne]

I've seen GSM for Gender and/or Sexual Minority before, which I personally like a lot, especially since it's vague enough that "sexual minority" could refer to both the ace/demi/gray-a spectrum and the non-straight orientations.

[feyayeruka]

yay to aeriele!!!!


my thoughts on the ever-expanding acronym is that it's starting to get shorter to say "non-heteronormative" or "non-heterosexual" or something like that.

[Amarantha]

Huge congrats, Aaeriele

[lanicita]

yay to aeriele!!!!


my thoughts on the ever-expanding acronym is that it's starting to get shorter to say "non-heteronormative" or "non-heterosexual" or something like that.

That's just sexuality though. This thread is also for gender minorities. AnimeHrmIne, I like GSM very much.

[feyayeruka]

that was the thing I didn't manage to convey in a good word. something like "anyone who isn't fitting into the sexuality and/or gender categories that are considered 'normal' by the mainstream". but I don't manage to express it eloquently and without possibly offending someone. It feels like there's the "straight, cis-gendered" people, and there's *everyone else*, and we're trying to fit this huge umbrella of diversity into a reasonably workable acronym, that just gets more and more unwieldly, and inevitably ends up leaving out some minority group.

[Monika]

I think when adding letters what has to be considered is whether anyone would feel left out or not welcome. I felt it was important to add A, because the answer to "Are asexual people gay?" is probably "no" in most cases and by most people, and it's necessary to confirm that the asexies are welcome to and part of the "LGBT+" community. It was necessary to add questioning, because people who are unsure whether they might not be heterosexual / cisgender after all need to be assured that they can come and stay before they can pin down their sexual orientation or gender identity. The I was apparently added because intersex people requested this, as it's not obvious whether or not they are welcome to an LGBT community.

I don't like GSM because three letters could mean anything. The standard meaning is Global System for Mobile Communications, which nobody knows, but everybody [in Europe] knows it has to do with cell phones. It can mean a thousand other things like global shared memory or general service medal or game show marathon or game - set - match. There is even the Gay Skinhead Movement.

To be recognizeable, there is not much choice besides extending LGBT or using "queer" (which however could be misunderstood not to cover asexuals or not to cover transgender people).

[sophyturtle]

I just wanted to put in my one more CONGRATULATIONS! it is nice when the good side wins

[tetris]

I don't like GSM because three letters could mean anything. The standard meaning is Global System for Mobile Communications, which nobody knows, but everybody [in Europe] knows it has to do with cell phones. It can mean a thousand other things like global shared memory or general service medal or game show marathon or game - set - match. There is even the Gay Skinhead Movement.

To be recognizeable, there is not much choice besides extending LGBT or using "queer" (which however could be misunderstood not to cover asexuals or not to cover transgender people).

I believe context can take care of any ambiguity "GSM" might have in a given situation. If, for instance, this thread was titled "[SAFESPACE] Gender and Sexual Minorities" then any mention of "GSM" within would make perfect sense.

Outside of this thread, of course, it will only make sense once enough people start using it.

[Jessica]

Someone posted this on facebook today, and I thought of you
Transmisogyny is Misogyny Against All Women
Full text under spoiler, but if you can check out the link you should.

Spoiler:

By Asher

This was written by my friend Gus Allis, who is rad. She is one of the people I know who really sets the standard of what a “cis ally” should be. Check it out.

Transmisogyny is Misogyny Against All Women: An Open Letter to Cis Feminists

mi·sog·y·ny

/mɪˈsɒdʒəni, maɪ-/ [mi-soj-uh-nee, mahy-]

–noun

hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.

I need to know something. I need to know what a real woman is. I’m a woman and I need to know if I’m real and the only person who can tell me is Bitch. Or maybe it’s Lisa Voegel. Or maybe it’s Rush Limbaugh. Ok, then I need to know two things. I need to know if I’m a real woman and I need to know who can tell me if I am. Because if I’ve learned anything during these past few years, existing on the periphery of the trans community as a cis lover, friend, sister, and solidarity stander of trans folk, it’s that I sure as shit don’t have the authority to determine my own gender identity. I’ve also learned, in no uncertain terms, that the war on trans women’s identities is a war on all women’s identity. Transmisogyny is misogyny against all women.

If you hate, dislike, or mistrust trans women, you’re misogynistic. Trans women are included in the big ol’ group known as women. Want proof? Well look at their name, silly. We call ‘em trans women, not trans chia pets, not trans beach towels, not trans schmeggeggies. Remember high school algebra? Oh hush, yes you do. Let me remind you of this lovely little mathematical rule:

If a=b and b=c, then a=c

If trans women= women and hating, disliking, or mistrusting women= misogyny then…then what? Solve for c.

Ok technically that would be trans women= misogyny but you know perfectly well what I mean and I hate that you even questioned my math.

But I know what you’re thinking. You’re thinking, “But Gus, I think trans women=/= women so therefore it’s totally not misogynistic to hate, dislike, or mistrust trans women.” And I understand that. Really, I do. But here’s the thing. Now listen carefully, my little chickadee, cuz I’m about to blow your mind.

You’re wrong.

Not only are you wrong, but even thinking that silly, silly, thing is unbelievably, incredibly, fantastically MISOGYNISTIC. And it offends me as a woman. Yes, yes it does. And here’s why. Here’s an annotated list of all the ways your transmisogyny hurts all women. Yes, even you, Bitch.

1. It Polices Women’s Identities

I listed this one first because it’s the easiest. If you are telling trans women they can’t be women, you’re telling every woman on the planet she can’t be whatever she wants. That doesn’t sound very feminist to me. It sounds more like something a pipe smoking white guy from the 50s would say to his daughter who wants to be an astronaut. Gross. Also, you’re basically declaring yourself the authority on other peoples’ identities. And really, my telling you to knock that off is for your own good. Do you have any idea how tiring that would be? Every time someone needed to know their own gender identity, they would have to contact you. Do you know how many people are in the world? Six billion-ish. I suggest, if you do keep this up, that perhaps you may want to get a gmail account, as that has an infinite amount of storage space. You’re going to need that for 6 billion emails with the subject heading, “what am I?”

But let’s get specific. The most common mistake I see here is when the queer community punishes trans women for specific aspects of their identities. Most notably, we’re talking about things that are deemed “unfeminine”. Seriously, folks, are you listening to yourselves here? You’re telling trans women that if they speak loudly/take up space/ defend themselves/have an opinion with which you disagree/wear pants/listen to metal/etc, they’re not real women. Uh, I’m sorry, what? I do all those things. You would shit twice and die if a man told me that. Why am I immune to that criticism? Why can I be butch and still be a woman? Oh, I know why. It’s because I was assigned female at birth, a great beacon of truth for my REAL gender. It’s because of that, and because of my cunt, which you recognize as legitimate. My “real” cunt is a “get out of gender invalidation free” pass. That’s convenient, as it serves for a great transition for…

2. It Polices Women’s Bodies

Here’s the real down and dirty analysis, right here. Wait for it. Wait. Ok. Now.

What the hell does a woman’s body possess that makes it a woman’s body? What does it NEED to have to be female. Did you immediately think of breasts, ovaries, vaginas? Gross. Think about that for more than two minutes and you’ll see why it’s gross. Still don’t get it? Well then go down to the nearest breast cancer walk and tell every single woman with a double mastectomy she’s not a woman. When you’re done with that, go down to your local hospital, ask the nurse where the OR is, and wait outside until you can find a woman fresh out of her hysterectomy surgery, and tell her the news. Yeah, that sounds evil, doesn’t it? Well it’s basically what you’re doing when you’re policing trans women’s bodies. You’re telling all women what they have to have on/in their bodies to be a woman. Which, obviously, is totally gross.

Also, what do you care what a human being looks like all inside out? That’s so WEIRD. How is it any of your business how many kidneys or ovaries or white blood cells I have? Like, that is legitimately weirding me out that you would even care. And can I just say, as a fat girl with a history of pretty serious body issues, it’s kind of triggering. First you wanna regulate trans women’s bodies and then what? Another person feeling like they have any authority over the validity of my body is really scary to me. And it definitely echoes of some very conservative, very anti-choice ideals. My body, my choice, fucker. Because that’s what “they” want to do “us”, isn’t it? Take away our bodily autonomy. Tell us exactly what we can and can not do with our organs. Awkward. You’re pretty much Bill O’Reilly. SO awkward.

(And seriously, this essay is totally not even getting into the super important points about people who are intersex who identify as women. This is mostly because I’m not intersex and I really can’t speak to those experiences, and also because I’m not as up on my shit with intersex issues as I like to believe I am with trans stuff. This is laziness on my part, and writing this essay has made me see this)

3. It Perpetuates the Myth of Shared Girlhood

Now, I don’t know what your girlhood was like, but I’m actually pretty sure it had nothing to do with mine. My childhood (a word I greatly prefer) was pretty much centered on reading, climbing trees, and hating my fat body. Oh yeah, I also lived in a three story mansion in Orange County, California. Kind of a different childhood than, say, my best friend who traveled the country with her hot air balloon pilot parents. Kind of a different childhood than my mother, who grew up a poor Catholic girl in the Italian part of Queens in the 1960s. To say that none of the different privileges, triumphs, oppressions, failures, and experiences of all our lives outweigh the fact that at one point all three of our ovaries released an egg for the very first time is insulting and demeaning. Our differences are important (it’s called intersectionality, maybe you’ve heard of it, “feminist”). The only thing we have in common, all of us, every single woman, cis AND trans, on this planet, is that we call ourselves “woman”. And that’s a big deal, really it is! But I think you’re being just a tad bit racist, classist, sizeist, ageist, ableist, and a hell of lot of other things by telling me that I, a white, upper class, American girl share a girlhood with every other person who was assigned female at birth on this planet.*

I mean, I guess you could say that all girls are affected by patriarchy. But really, all PEOPLE are affected by patriarchy. And, patriarchy looks different, takes different forms, and has different effects in different places, times, classes, religions, and races. So I’m sorry, I know that was totally your ace in the hole for this argument, but it’s been debunked. Sorry for not being sorry.

I hope you now see how wrong you are. I know, I know, you probably feel really really embarrassed now, and that’s totally natural. It’s embarrassing to think that trans women aren’t women. But you’ll get over it. Now all those trans women who’ve been barred from women only shelters, clinics and spaces because you were too into your weird second wave phase to be a decent person? They might not get over it as quickly. Because, honestly, as snarky and hilarious as this essay is (and it is really funny and you know it), the effects of your transmisogyny are significantly less hilarious. Misogyny kills women. Fuck prefixes, fuck specifying what kind of misogyny, what kind of woman. Misogyny kills women. How are those hands looking, Lady Macbeth?

* I want to put something here about how “shared girlhood” also negates trans guys’ identities too, because it basically essentializes that they can never be anything but women since they had a “girlhood”, which is obviously false and busted. I just can’t find the words at the moment.

[Shivahn]

Thanks for sharing Jessica. That's an awesome letter.

[sophyturtle]

Ok technically that would be trans women= misogyny but you know perfectly well what I mean and I hate that you even questioned my math.

<3 She had me at "I hate that you even questioned my math"

[Zeroignite]

That was one of the earlier essays I read. <3 it.

[Aaeriele]

Tranarchism is a good blog in general.

[joshz]

Ok technically that would be trans women= misogyny but you know perfectly well what I mean and I hate that you even questioned my math.

<3 She had me at "I hate that you even questioned my math"

Nit: the author is wrong in this comment--hir math was just fine, ze just referenced transitivity instead of substitution.

But I *really* liked that article <3. Thanks for sharing it, Jessica.

[Jessica]

Ok technically that would be trans women= misogyny but you know perfectly well what I mean and I hate that you even questioned my math.

<3 She had me at "I hate that you even questioned my math"

Nit: the author is wrong in this comment--hir math was just fine, ze just referenced transitivity instead of substitution.

But I *really* liked that article <3. Thanks for sharing it, Jessica.

That's what I thought as well, when reading, but I suppressed the math major in me to keep moving onward. Also, I believe that she stated her preferred gender

[Brace]

Random collection of updates:

* I went to a furcon and it was fun
* Then when I came home when the weekend was over I found out I had received two scholarships worth $3k+
* Then the pair of cross trainers I had ordered from shoebuy was stolen when the delivery driver left the package in front of my door
* Then I was put on financial aid suspension because I have too many credits in relation to my degree programs, since I attended this same college when I was 15-16
* But I will probably be ok, I am told (I sincerely hope so since that would be a -$13,000 loss for me, which would probably entail homelessness and no more hormones and basically permanently mean no degree)

I feel ok in general. Maybe I am just in shock, or maybe I have played too much poker and the idea of having to draw to see if I win or lose no longer gets through to me. If I do win my appeal I should have all my degrees and certs within 2 semesters though, which is cool to know.

[kinigget]

for what it's worth: Good luck.

[Monika]

If the financial aid doesn't work out, can you take out (additional?) student loans?

[Brace]

I don't have a co-signer. I also don't know about the repayment plan. I would be transferring after another year, most likely, and whoever my co-signer would be in that situation (if I had one one), I wouldn't want to put on the leash for another 4 years worth of debt; especially since, after transferring, this credit issue would go away and I could receive federal aid and loans again. Unless you were asking if I could take out more federal loans. The answer is no, not unless they accept my appeal.

[Jessica]

Did you call the people who you bought the product from and tell them it never arrived? There is no confirmation that you received the item, and the post office/courier isn't supposed to leave shit at your door for that reason.

[felltir]

I've had the same problem before, and they said I'd signed for it :/

[kinigget]

thought 1: "I wonder if this is what dysphoria feels like"

thought 2: "yeah this is probably what dysphoria feels like"

thought 3: "wow, this sucks"

fortunately, I managed to fight it off with a mix of anime and portal 2.

edit: okay, so I wrote all that last night, and the weird thing is: today I feel a lot better. As in even better than I did before last night. All I can come up with is that last night was some kind of breakthrough.

[animeHrmIne]

I found an alternative! =P

Of course, the second P could easily be polysexual. And the second I could be . . . something? And the E would be . . .

((This is a joke. It just seemed kind of funny that I found this on my tumblr today. =D ))