[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

[animeHrmIne]

I hope you feel well soon, Aaerie!!!

@Feddlefew: You may just have to define it every time. That's how pansexual is. I'd say come up with a clear, easily repeated explanation and then use that every time. It may be really annoying, but it's annoying and over quickly, instead of rambling through a haphazard explanation every time that may not be clear and thus prompt even more questioning.

[Feddlefew]

How should I explain to people the difference between Androgynous and Bisexual / Transsexual / Asexual? I don't care that I'm biologically female or being referred to as a she, but I have a hard time thinking of myself as a "girl" in the traditional sense.

I'm not quite sure I understand the question. Can you just define each one so that the difference is obvious? I mean, something along the lines of "bisexual people are attracted to people of both (binary) genders," and "androgynous people identify as neither strictly male or female," and so on?

That's what I usually do. There is probably a better word than androgynous, because I do identify as female (sex), just not as feminine or masculine (gender). The part that seems to throw people off is that I do not find other females physically attractive, while still finding males attractive.

It gets uncomfortable when you're one of two females in the room during a class discussion on the early feminist movement and the teacher asks you to provide a "woman's point of view" on something. Just because I am female does not mean I can give a perspective on how women approach every day life.

[Vaniver]

The part that seems to throw people off is that I do not find other females physically attractive, while still finding males attractive.

It may confuse others because what you've described sounds a lot like being a straight female. You might find "straight female who isn't feminine" to be a short and clear description that communicates what you want (with perhaps a "traditionally" thrown in front of the feminine).

[doogly]

the teacher asks you to provide a "woman's point of view" on something. Just because I am female does not mean I can give a perspective on how women approach every day life.

This is also just a pedagogical no-no in general. Spotlighting students or worse still encouraging them to carry the banner and trumpet for some group is just bad business.

[animeHrmIne]

The part that seems to throw people off is that I do not find other females physically attractive, while still finding males attractive.

It may confuse others because what you've described sounds a lot like being a straight female. You might find "straight female who isn't feminine" to be a short and clear description that communicates what you want (with perhaps a "traditionally" thrown in front of the feminine).

Not necessarily. To me, it sounds like female genderqueer with a femme presentation. Still transgender, just AFAB and feminine presenting. Which might be a better way to describe it: "androgynous" might throw people off because they have a preconceived notion of what that means that you may not follow; people in general may have not heard "female genderqueer", so you get to be the example that makes them understand.

[Jessica]

Hmmm, should I get this shirt?

[kinigget]

first off: Jessica, get the shirt, it is an awesome shirt.

The second subject will take some explaining. See, I never used to believe in ghosts, that was until I started encountering them. I am what you would call "sensitive" to the supernatural, and before you go writing me off as silly and/or crazy let me explain something: I fully believe that the supernatural can be explained by scientific methods, we just don't know how yet. Which brings me to my actual subject: As I have stated here before I am at least transgendered and quite likely transsexual. What I wonder about is whether and how transitioning will affect my sensitivity. Now I know that I'm quite likely the only one here who cares at all about any of this, but, you know, for SCIENCE!

[Vaniver]

Still transgender

Won't that imply masculinity to most people?

they have a preconceived notion of what that means that you may not follow; people in general may have not heard "female genderqueer", so you get to be the example that makes them understand.

The usefulness of categories is that they allow people to apply preconceived notions. Not knowing how to respond or act in a situation is awkward and unpleasant. Note that you only have access to notions the other person has preconceived, and so knowing your audience is helpful. It may be a better strategy to use verbs than adjectives- "I am a girl, I like boys, I don't care much about being a girl or girl stereotypes." Then, rather than trying to explain fine distinctions (no, I don't identify as androgynous because of X) you can quickly access the interesting differences.

[Glmclain]

I have to do that too. People assume I'm gay or want to be a girl, and I'm like "Nope, nope, I'm a straight guy. I just uh, am not really masculine. "

I hate gender roles 'sigh.'

Also, Jessica, I'm buying that T-shirt. I need it.

[Bassoon]

It's really hard to convince myself that I should go to the LGBT/Allies kick-off event my university's GSA is having.

[Monika]

@Aaeriele: I hope you are well.

Hmmm, should I get this shirt?

Yes!

See, I never used to believe in ghosts, that was until I started encountering them. I am what you would call "sensitive" to the supernatural, and before you go writing me off as silly and/or crazy let me explain something: I fully believe that the supernatural can be explained by scientific methods, we just don't know how yet. Which brings me to my actual subject: As I have stated here before I am at least transgendered and quite likely transsexual. What I wonder about is whether and how transitioning will affect my sensitivity. Now I know that I'm quite likely the only one here who cares at all about any of this, but, you know, for SCIENCE!

I don't believe in ghosts, but if they existed and it were possible to communicate with them, only for some sensitive people, I would expect that transitioning would not impair that ability. Because I think it would be unlikely that the ability would relate to hormon levels.

However, I do not believe in ghosts. Depending on what exactly it is that you have started to experience this may be a sign of a mental illness. It would be advisable to discuss this with a psychiatrist.

How should I explain to people the difference between Androgynous and Bisexual / Transsexual / Asexual? I don't care that I'm biologically female or being referred to as a she, but I have a hard time thinking of myself as a "girl" in the traditional sense.

You could describe it as in between male and female gender identity. Maybe "in the middle" if that applies to you.
You could describe it as combining male attributes and female attributes, if this is how you feel about it.
If you have paper and pencil in the situation, you could tell them gender is a spectrum (that's a simplification because it doesn't cover e.g. agender or multigender people really well, but for explaining androgynous it works well) and draw a line between female gender identity and |----------------------| male gender identity and draw a point where you feel your gender identity lies approximately. If you have no paper, you could hold up your hands for the ends of the line and then point out your location.
You could maybe say something similar to this, if it happens to match what you feel: people who have mostly male attributes (whatever that exactly means) / male parts in their minds / souls / brains and few female ones identify as [cis or trans] boys/men, which most often aligns with the body and sometimes not. People with mostly female parts in their minds and few male ones identify as girls/women. So it's only logical there would be some with neither (or few) male and female ones, those are agender. And some with both male and female attributes / minds / whatever. These are androgynous people. They can have male or female bodies. (Well or intersexed ones, just as people who identify as male, female, agender.) But maybe this is not how you feel about it (maybe it's a better description of two-spirit / multigender / multisystem people).
In comparison to bisexual and asexual remind them that gender identity and sexual orientation are independent. Any man, woman or genderqueer individual can be attracted to none, one, some or all of the body types or gender identities.
In comparison to transsexual tell them that transgender is the more general word for people whose gender identity does not align with their body type / legal and social gender assigned at birth, which can mean (and often does mean), but does not have to mean, identifying with the opposite gender, while transsexual means that they additionally experience dysphoria about their bodies and wish to change them with hormons and often surgery, and this is not what you feel, your body is okay for you.

[ginadagny]

Wishing Aaeriele a speedy recovery

[Brace]

^

[DaBigCheez]

Aaeri update:

~48 hours after surgery, and still doing well. Off the morphine drip (down to pills + as-needed injections); no pain except for a little bit while shifting to a new resting position. Main annoyance right now is that some of the pills don't taste very good; she's still on sleeping meds for another day or two, so that's what she's spent most of her time doing. Nurses come in pretty frequently to check vitals/bring in food etc./take food etc. away, so she doesn't typically get to sleep for all that long at a time. And if she needs anything, she can snap her fingers and I'm there (I'm not always *competent* in my attempts to help, and fail at comprehending her sometimes, but it works out in the end!)

[Weeks]

Glad to hear all is going well! I hope you have a speedy recovery. We all miss you.

Also DBC, you are now Spike in my mind. I hope you can do a good Cathy Weseluck impression.

[ginadagny]

Remember to deep breathe and cough, prevents nosocomial infections

[PM 2Ring]

Thanks again for the update, DaBigCheez. And for being there for Aaeri.

And if she needs anything, she can snap her fingers and I'm there (I'm not always *competent* in my attempts to help, and fail at comprehending her sometimes, but it works out in the end!)

People on a morphine drip & sleeping meds are not renowned for coherency.

[Vaniver]

It's really hard to convince myself that I should go to the LGBT/Allies kick-off event my university's GSA is having.

Do it! It might be fun, and you might meet worthwhile people.

Best wishes for Aaeri!

[Jessica]

Wish you well, Aaeri!

[Brace]

I don't know what good it does to post this, for me or for anyone, but I've come to admit to myself that even now I want to be a man and not a woman. And not for healthy reasons, and in spite of the knowledge that I fundamentally can't be. I just feel cheated. I was told I would "outgrow it", and people drew huge debts from me in the name of facilitating this, inflicting irreparable injury. I was promised that I would be a man and that promise justified a quarter of a lifetime of pain (and undoubtedly more to come), and gave me the means and motive to tolerate it and push through it. Learning to do that shaped me in a fundamental way. It accounts for my withdrawn and generally stoical nature, which I have tried to undo desperately and repeatedly but without success. It imbued me with the sort of discipline that I call upon daily just to continue to live; and knowing that said discipline comes, fundamentally, from a place of self-hatred and self-destruction leaves me conflicted even in the act of survival. I don't know how to reverse it or build it on a different foundation, so I wonder if maybe I would be more free and authentic if I simply resolved to starve to death or die of exposure on the street, since then I would be rid of it at least. I'm not sure what there is to be said about this, productive or not, so I assume any comment on the subject will be a surprise.

[Hammer]

I don't know what good it does to post this, for me or for anyone, but I've come to admit to myself that even now I want to be a man and not a woman. And not for healthy reasons, and in spite of the knowledge that I fundamentally can't be. I just feel cheated. I was told I would "outgrow it", and people drew huge debts from me in the name of facilitating this, inflicting irreparable injury. I was promised that I would be a man and that promise justified a quarter of a lifetime of pain (and undoubtedly more to come), and gave me the means and motive to tolerate it and push through it. Learning to do that shaped me in a fundamental way. It accounts for my withdrawn and generally stoical nature, which I have tried to undo desperately and repeatedly but without success. It imbued me with the sort of discipline that I call upon daily just to continue to live; and knowing that said discipline comes, fundamentally, from a place of self-hatred and self-destruction leaves me conflicted even in the act of survival. I don't know how to reverse it or build it on a different foundation, so I wonder if maybe I would be more free and authentic if I simply resolved to starve to death or die of exposure on the street, since then I would be rid of it at least. I'm not sure what there is to be said about this, productive or not, so I assume any comment on the subject will be a surprise.

It sounds like you are thinking about the inherent issue, evaluating the success/failure of the actions of the past with regard to that issue, considering whether a change of direction is called for and, if so, how to effect that change. Those are all good things. They are part of a process which is often painful and rarely fun, but which can lead to a much improved situation. Is anyone helping you work through this?

[Dobblesworth]

I nth the statement that 'Dragon' is an awesome name. Draco'd just make you sound a Harry Potter fan<gender>; Pendragon the same for Arthurian mythos and might make you sound a little more poncy IMO.

[Aaeriele]

~90 hours after surgery update: catheters still suck. The external bandages are all off, but the internal packing is still in, so still the feeling of semi-constant constipation. Oh well. At least I'm allowed to actually sit up tomorrow (my back is killing me right now).


Edit: Signed on IRC to chat some to ease boredom, first interaction was someone criticizing something I manage; think I'll avoid IRC for now

[poxic]

YAY AAERI!

I mean, for you being here, not "yay semi-constant constipation". Boo that. But yay you.

[Monika]

*hugs* for Aaeri

[PM 2Ring]

* very gentle virtual hugs for Aaeri *

I hope you don't get too bored while you're waiting to heal.

[Monika]

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/d ... atest.html Interesting Implicit Atitude Tests. There is one on gay - straight, too.

[Sarr]

Hooray Aaeriele!

[Aaeriele]

In 2 more hours, I should theoretically be allowed to sit up. Theoretically.

No, I'm not counting the minutes.

Yes, I'm counting the seconds.


Edit: Oh god that shower was glorious. Utterly exhausted me, but was glorious.

[Shivahn]

In 2 more hours, I should theoretically be allowed to sit up. Theoretically.

No, I'm not counting the minutes.

Yes, I'm counting the seconds.


Edit: Oh god that shower was glorious. Utterly exhausted me, but was glorious.

Yay!

[The EGE]

Yay! I wish you a speedy recovery.

[Nordic Einar]

Piling on the support Aaeriele. Best wishes from D.C

[Aaeriele]

Cross-posting from Google Plus for those who aren't on there...

Update from Amber (dictation taken by Ben): Yesterday they took out the IV hookup in her left hand, since there was some kind of problem with it (apparently). Today, they decided to set up a new IV hookup in her right hand for the rest of her stay. It hurt worse than anything else has so far, and she's understandably not at all pleased about it. Plus, now both her hands are sore, hence why I'm typing this. Thankfully, only 1-1.5 more days in the hospital.

[Van]

Good luck with healing Aaeriele!

If you guys are going to go to Bangkok for sightseeing or anything, we should totally meet up for lunch.

[The EGE]

It's Van! We missed you!

[zombie_monkey]

How should I explain to people the difference between Androgynous and Bisexual / Transsexual / Asexual? I don't care that I'm biologically female or being referred to as a she, but I have a hard time thinking of myself as a "girl" in the traditional sense.

I'm not quite sure I understand the question. Can you just define each one so that the difference is obvious? I mean, something along the lines of "bisexual people are attracted to people of both (binary) genders," and "androgynous people identify as neither strictly male or female," and so on?

That's what I usually do. There is probably a better word than androgynous, because I do identify as female (sex), just not as feminine or masculine (gender). The part that seems to throw people off is that I do not find other females physically attractive, while still finding males attractive.

It gets uncomfortable when you're one of two females in the room during a class discussion on the early feminist movement and the teacher asks you to provide a "woman's point of view" on something. Just because I am female does not mean I can give a perspective on how women approach every day life.

That's me, except I am male and cissexual rather than female and cissexual. But I don't identify with a gender. I find the term agendered
useful. I mostly like to hang out with gay girls (EDIT: and I mean as a subset of people, not of girls) and haven't had a straight girlfriend since once in high
school ten years ago, only bi. My presentation is pretty conventionally male.

[Shivahn]

Yay for being almost out of the hospital!

And hey Van!

[NecklaceOfShadow]

Hey-la.

My school (and most other schools, I'm sure, but I don't care about them) has a nice system in which any books not in the bookstore that one might want to buy, one can special order them. The typical thing is one book for you, one for the general shelves. They have a sizeable shelf of books on literary and societal feminist criticism, but as far as I can see, they're mostly centered around cis women. I'd really like to start reading farther into formal gender studies and criticism, so I'd appreciate suggestions on authors and works to request from them.

(Also, I'm sorry if this makes no sense at all. It's midnight and I'm tired and bah excuses and post~! the stream will be broken, I swear, by the button of teh posts!)

[Aaeriele]

I'd really like to start reading farther into formal gender studies and criticism, so I'd appreciate suggestions on authors and works to request from them.

http://www.amazon.com/Delusions-Gender-Society-Neurosexism-Difference/dp/0393068382
and
http://www.amazon.com/Whipping-Girl-Transsexual-Scapegoating-Femininity/dp/1580051545
are probably the most commonly suggested works for such. Beyond that I don't really have any other good book recommendations yet.

======================================================================

Unrelated to above, status update for those not in my G+ circle for these (spoilered if there are any folks who don't like TMI stuff):

Spoiler:

Back at the hotel now after leaving the hospital around 1pm.

After we got back and got the things we had taken to the hospital squared away (well, more like Ben got them squared away and I sat and watched), I took a nap for a bit (oh glorious hotel bed, you are so much nicer than a hospital bed) while Ben ran to the 7-11 for some foodstuffs.

Right around when he got back (with yummy ham and cheese croissant, among other things), it was time for my second dilation. That went off without any real hitch (sessions take about 40-50 minutes - a few minutes prep, 30 minutes dialating, then another few minutes pack/cleanup).

Also notified the hotel front desk about the fact that our hotel shower seems to have some plumbing issues; it's lacking any significant water pressure, and there doesn't seem to be any significant cold water flow. Someone is supposed to be coming up in about 5 minutes to take a look at it.

Overall, things are going pretty good:

[Monika]

\o/

How do you feel?