Cats: Indoors or Out

[mercutio_stencil]

I just got a stern talking too from my neighbor about my indoor cat; she's of the opinion that cats should be allowed to come and go as they please. I stand by my assertion of indoors only under the twofold banner of safety, both for the cat and for the population of small furred and feathered things in the area.

I've heard a rather wide range of opinions on the issue, from people who could not bear to keep a cat enclosed to avian biologists who think outdoor cats should be shot on site.

Where do you stand on this surprisingly divisive issue.

[Thesh]

I think either one is fine. Indoor cats are less likely to be hit by cars or eaten by coyotes, but outdoors is a cat's natural setting and they tend to enjoy it more. That doesn't mean that they will be unhappy inside, however, but you should probably make sure they get extra attention if they are indoors cats.

[marcel]

On another forum I have learned that a big part of the division is also geographical.

In Europe the standard is for outdoor* cats, with some people having indoor cats. In (parts of) America the standard is indoor cats, with some people having outdoor cats. The division so big that shelters and vets recomend keeping cats as outdoor cats in Europe, while they recommend keeping them indoors in america.

My stance (as a Dutch person) is outdoor cats.
Regarding your arguments:
For the cats safety consider the following. Would you personally prefer a long life in captivity or a possibly shorter life in freedom? For me it is the latter, and thus I want the same for my cat.

for the safety of small creatures in the area. We got the cat as a mouser, and she does her job for that. If you don't want your cat to go after other animals, you can put a bell around her neck.

Now for the divide between America and Europe. In america there are a lot more predators that can go after housecats. That makes the risks for an outdoor cat a lot bigger. My first arguent still stands off course, but I can see the merits of a life indoors better when the chance of a cat getting eaten by a predators is a big as it is in some areas.


* When I say outdoor cat in this post, I mean in/outdoor cats, who have a choice to go where they want

[Shivahn]

Cars are a bigger threat than predators to *most* cats in America.

(Kind of weird that I'm saying that, since coyotes and rattlesnakes are the biggest threat here..)

[fizzgig]

In some parts of Canberra, it's actually illegal to let your cat roam free. They must be kept indoors, or in an outdoor enclosure. This is mostly due to them destroying populations of native animals. I'm not sure why they're not just required to wear a bell, but Australian native animals aren't exactly known for their intelligence and wherewithal.

In other areas, it's recommended that you keep them indoors at night time, which seems fair enough as most of the animals they are presumably hunting would be nocturnal.

[yurell]

Yeah, same here ... if a cat isn't on a leash, it can be captured and taken to he pound like a stray dog AFAIK.

[skippysheila]

According to The World of Me, cats should be indoors or confined to your own garden.

I had a thriving population of tiny wildlife in my garden until several neighbours got cats - they have now killed off all the slow worms, voles and frogs that were living in my back yard and presumably everyone else's. Little bastards. They don't seem to be so good at catching birds, which is something, but there are definitely fewer small birds around since the cat population exploded a couple of years ago. Bells are a lovely idea, but in terms of safety for the cats they aren't great (elastic straps etc. don't always stop cats getting strangled by the bell), many cats learn how to silence the bell while hunting or can ditch the bell very easily, and lots of animals don't associate the sound with danger, so don't react.

The local cats also crap in my vegetable patch and repeatedly have extended, noisy fights/sex (it's hard to tell the difference) in the middle of the night, which can only be stopped by going outside and turning the hose on. I find it very hard to understand why people tolerate cats doing this - if someone's dog was wandering in and out of people's gardens, leaving turds around and waking them up at 3am there'd be big trouble.

I have nothing against cats as such - my parents-in-law have a number of cats which are lovely. However, they have also put a net up around the top of their fence so that their cats can't leave their garden. This is mostly for the safety of the cats, and they have said that if they couldn't keep them in the garden they'd keep them inside. It does, however, have the added advantage of stopping their cats being anti-social on other people's property.

[Hawknc]

My cats stay indoors, for their own safety and that of the native wildlife. While one of them could probably find her way home easily enough if she went wandering around the neighbourhood, the other is not terribly bright and I don't particularly want to hand her over to Darwin just yet.

[Lazar]

My cats stay indoors, for their own safety and that of the native wildlife.

This, regarding my cat. It may not be Snakeland up here, but we have got foxes and fishers and the occasional coyote or black bear, not to mention cars, and possibly even deranged humans.

[yurell]

skippysheila, can't you get cat traps from the local government? I know you can where I am from

[PatrickRsGhost]

It can vary, depending on where you live. Not so much "where" as in "what country/state", but city/suburbia/country.

We have both indoor and outdoor cats. Most of the indoor cats have been indoors since birth, or at least since we took them in. The outdoor cats are all strays that wandered up to our house, looking for a meal, found it, and have hung around ever since.

There are, of course, the usual arguments of health reasons, safety issues, and everything else with indoor vs. outdoor.

If I had my say, cats would be a bit of both, but in the sense of being in a somewhat enclosed outdoor environment, such as a screened-in patio or porch, with a few perches for them to lay out on and survey all that lies before them. As long as you remember to spay/neuter your cats, you won't have to worry about them wandering too far off from your house, and you won't be contributing to the overpopulation of unwanted pets.

Two of our outdoor cats had been spayed/neutered, and they don't wander off at all. They stick close to the house; they might wander off some, but usually they'll stick close to the house. The third is a tom the neighbors abandoned when they moved. He still wanders around, but one thing I learned about toms is that their territory is usually a 100-foot radius from any given central point. For example, if you have an intact male (tom) hanging around your house, he usually won't go outside of 100 feet from said house. You could go for a walk, and he might follow you, but he'll stop and lay down in a spot 100 feet away from the house, and wait for you to return. Our tom Champ does this when one of us walks the dog. He'll follow us up to a tree near the next street up, then when we walk in front of the high school, then down to a tree near a quadplex, and to a fire hydrant on the road leading into a low-income housing authority behind our house.

[PM 2Ring]

I think it's great if cats have the opportunity to go outdoors, but they certainly shouldn't be given the freedom to escape from the yard of their owner.

I don't know enough about the situation in other countries, but stray and feral cats are definitely a problem here in Australia, even in urban environments. In rural environments their impact can be severe, especially in the less fertile regions bordering deserts, where their presence can have a big impact on the native population dynamics. We don't have any native large mammalian predators in Australia (or New Zealand), so stray and feral cats here rarely encounter animals that can threaten them (except, I guess, in the far northern tropics).

Some articles on the problems of stray and feral cats in Australia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_cat#Australia
The Great Australian Cat Dilemma
Feral cats destroying Australia’s wildlife

Also, it's not just a problem with cats attacking wildlife: even their poo can be dangerous:

Toxoplasmosis is a parasitic disease caused by the protozoan Toxoplasma gondii.^[1] The parasite infects most genera of warm-blooded animals, including humans, but the primary host is the felid (cat) family. Animals are infected by eating infected meat, by ingestion of feces of a cat that has itself recently been infected, or by transmission from mother to fetus. Cats are the primary source of infection to human hosts, although contact with raw meat, especially pork, is a more significant source of human infections in some countries. Fecal contamination of hands is a significant risk factor.^[2]

Up to one third of the world's human population is estimated to carry a Toxoplasma infection.^[3] The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention notes that overall seroprevalence in the United States as determined with specimens collected by the National Health and Nutritional Examination Survey (NHANES) between 1999 and 2004 was found to be 10.8%, with seroprevalence among women of childbearing age (15 to 44 years) 11%.^[4]

During the first few weeks post-exposure, the infection typically causes a mild flu-like illness or no illness. Thereafter, the parasite rarely causes any symptoms in otherwise healthy adults. However, those with a weakened immune system, such as AIDS patients or pregnant women, may become seriously ill, and it can occasionally be fatal. The parasite can cause encephalitis (inflammation of the brain) and neurologic diseases, and can affect the heart, liver, inner ears, and eyes (chorioretinitis). Recent research has also linked toxoplasmosis with brain cancer.^[5]

[PAstrychef]

Toxoplasmosis from cat shit is most dangerous to pregnant women, who need to handle it and then not wash their hands. Otherwise, not so much.
I let my cats out because I find that keeping them in basically makes them crazy. And they are predators, which means that they will predate some of the small mammals around. All I've ever been given are mice, squirrels and a few baby bunnies. As the squirrels like to chew their way into my house and scamper through the wall/ceiling spaces, the more Winston discourages that the better. And the bunny population is in no danger in my neighborhood.
As for the possible dangers, cats can also die from playing with string, eating the wrong houseplant and getting stuck in a hole in the basement.

[skippysheila]

skippysheila, can't you get cat traps from the local government? I know you can where I am from

Sadly, no. I'm in the UK, and trapping a cat (even in a live trap for return to owner) would be seriously frowned upon. I'm also not sure it would help - I'd trap the cat, return it to the owner, and then what?

Toxoplasmosis - yes, it's only dangerous to pregnant women (or rather, the contents thereof) or people who are immunocompromised, and if you're a cat owner and fall into one of those categories you can take precautions, but if you let it out of your property how do you know that your cat is not burying poo in the garden of someone who's pregnant or having chemo?

Is it just me who finds the difference in what people will tolerate from other people's cats compared to almost any other pet animal really weird?

[Jessica]

Indoor cats have a longer lifespan than outdoor cats.

My cats will never be true outdoor cats. We're looking at a leash to walk them, and my father-in-common-law created an enclosure for his cats, and we bring ours over there when we need to leave the house for a bit. But, free to wander? No.

Personally, I think there are enough wandering strays as it is. No need to let domesticated cats loose as well. Especially if you haven't removed their reproductive abilities.

[Ryom]

The difference between indoor and outdoor cats is this:

Outdoor cats wander around the same area and sleep wherever.
Indoor cats wander around the same area and sleep wherever.

Seriously, it's not like indoor cats aren't doing exactly the same thing as outdoor cats. It isn't like they are humans trapped in solitary confinement with nothing to do. The things an outdoor cat does are the same things an indoor cat does, which is eat, sleep, and play. If you aren't playing with your cat to satisfy it's play/hunt instinct then you shouldn't own a pet at all.

[mercutio_stencil]

I'm somewhat skeptical about the actual efficacy of the bell; my childhood cat wasn't much of a mouser, but has a fantastic ability to catch all manner of birds, bell or no. The idea of a twenty pound Maine Coon taking down a hummingbird still baffles me slightly.

I think my vet said that cats sleep 20 hours a day. Seems accurate by my count.

[Shivahn]

Especially if you haven't removed their reproductive abilities.

Oh, yes, I had just assumed that cats were fixed. If the pet isn't fixed (and it should be), then you shouldn't let it out. Male cats especially are likely to roam far and die hard.

[Ptolom]

My cat's time is split pretty evenly between in and out. She wears a bell and has all her injections up to date. So far nothing untoward has happened apart from the demise of 4 or 5 unforunate sparrows.

[Shivahn]

I'm somewhat skeptical about the actual efficacy of the bell; my childhood cat wasn't much of a mouser, but has a fantastic ability to catch all manner of birds, bell or no.

Cats are ambush predators, and are fast. Without a bell they might creep up silently, but even with it they can either learn to move like a ninja or just wait until something is close and run. My sister's old cat could outrun birds trying to take off and jump several feet into the air. And she was not close to athletic.

[You, sir, name?]

I am of the opinion that if you live in an area where it's safe to keep a cat outdoors (away from traffic, etc.), and the cat is domestic to the ecosystem (e.g. in rural Europe), then there is no excuse to trap your cat within your home. Not only is this it's natural habitat, it will keep rodents and snakes out of your garden and home.

The difference between indoor and outdoor cats is this:

Outdoor cats wander around the same area and sleep wherever.
Indoor cats wander around the same area and sleep wherever.

Outdoor cats wander an area that is 200 times larger than indoor cats.

Seriously, it's not like indoor cats aren't doing exactly the same thing as outdoor cats. It isn't like they are humans trapped in solitary confinement with nothing to do. The things an outdoor cat does are the same things an indoor cat does, which is eat, sleep, and play. If you aren't playing with your cat to satisfy it's play/hunt instinct then you shouldn't own a pet at all.

You really can't play with an outdoor cat, at least not in the summer. They're generally too tired from doing whatever it pleases to be in the mood for play, and if you try to play with it when it's outside, it's like "go away, I'm hunting something real".

I'm somewhat skeptical about the actual efficacy of the bell; my childhood cat wasn't much of a mouser, but has a fantastic ability to catch all manner of birds, bell or no.

Cats are ambush predators, and are fast. Without a bell they might creep up silently, but even with it they can either learn to move like a ninja or just wait until something is close and run. My sister's old cat could outrun birds trying to take off and jump several feet into the air. And she was not close to athletic.

I think it varies with breed. Some cats will jump straight into the air and catch birds. Bell or no bell it doesn't make a difference.

Though I don't understand why you would want to prevent your cat from hunting. It's doing what it's made to do. It's no different to the birds who catch poor innocent worms just going about their business. We don't go around affixing bells to birds to prevent them from hunting.

[xX17GHDUDE17Xx]

Every time I get a cat I swear it will be an outside one, but eventually I get tired of not seeing them all the time and bring them in. I don't really think I'm necessarily holding them captive. The house is pretty big, and I'm really lax about where they can climb. Everything not in the kitchen is fair game for them.

[You, sir, name?]

Every time I get a cat I swear it will be an outside one, but eventually I get tired of not seeing them all the time and bring them in. I don't really think I'm necessarily holding them captive. The house is pretty big, and I'm really lax about where they can climb. Everything not in the kitchen is fair game for them.

Try living farther north. You get the best of both worlds. They stay outside and enjoy their freedom all summer, and stay indoor all winter because they hate walking on snow.

[xX17GHDUDE17Xx]

Every time I get a cat I swear it will be an outside one, but eventually I get tired of not seeing them all the time and bring them in. I don't really think I'm necessarily holding them captive. The house is pretty big, and I'm really lax about where they can climb. Everything not in the kitchen is fair game for them.

Try living farther north. You get the best of both worlds. They stay outside and enjoy their freedom all summer, and stay indoor all winter because they hate walking on snow.

Gah! Now I have to choose between living where it's colder, which I would hate, and staying where I am now knowing that my poor cats aren't enjoying life to the extent that they could be!

[Thesh]

My cats were playing with a mouse for a good ten minutes a while ago, and then they let it get away. So yeah, I'm happy to let them out to catch rodents. I just bring them in before it gets dark so I don't have to worry about coyotes.

[Cathy]

My 3 kitties are strictly indoor cats.
1. We live within 200 yards of several very, very busy streets.
2. I see a dead run-over cat at least once a week, unless it's an opossum. I have little faith in my neighbors stopping for an animal -- I have seen some cars go out of their ways to run over animals crossing the road.
3. We have 10 countable feral cats within the nearest third of a mile who are somewhat vicious when defending their own territory (judging by the lack of ears among their own population.)
3. As I live in an apartment, I worry the cat would not know its way home, and moving every year or two is no good for their directional abilities.
4. Apartment also means I can't install a kitty flap on the door for when I'm at school/work.

Basically, there's a multitude of reasons. I'm considering easing them into the indoor/outdoor life once we buy or rent a house (real house, not apartment). The reasoning is there are less strays about, less crazy streets with jerks in big cars, and it's easier to find "our" place with its kitty door and such. My guy is not much into the idea -- you see enough run-over cats and you just wanna hug your kitty forever, but I think I can wear him down.

[Ryom]

Random Cat pictures time:

Spoiler:

[yurell]

Could you please put those behind spoiler tags?

Edit: Thank you

[mercutio_stencil]

Though I don't understand why you would want to prevent your cat from hunting. It's doing what it's made to do. It's no different to the birds who catch poor innocent worms just going about their business. We don't go around affixing bells to birds to prevent them from hunting.

I think it's a bit of a mistake to think of cats as in any way 'natural,' they are in a very real sense an invasive species. Apparently outdoor cats, admittedly mainly the feral ones, have a devastating effect on the songbird population, that's the reason that the avian biologist I know has such strong feelings on the subject.

[ameretrifle]

We had two cats who refused to stay inside; they'd rush out the door every time they could, and eventually we just let them. Now, we have a cat who will claw at you if you try to carry him out. I think it depends a lot on the cat, and where you live (our outdoor cats didn't make it very long), and what your life/neighbors/regulations allow.

[You, sir, name?]

Though I don't understand why you would want to prevent your cat from hunting. It's doing what it's made to do. It's no different to the birds who catch poor innocent worms just going about their business. We don't go around affixing bells to birds to prevent them from hunting.

I think it's a bit of a mistake to think of cats as in any way 'natural,' they are in a very real sense an invasive species. Apparently outdoor cats, admittedly mainly the feral ones, have a devastating effect on the songbird population, that's the reason that the avian biologist I know has such strong feelings on the subject.

Doesn't that depend on which ecosystem you're introducing them to, though? Domestic cats have been endemic to Europe for millennia.

[Shivahn]

We could probably use more wild cats around my house. I've seen so many rabbits recently I'm sort of worried they're all going to starve in winter.

[NotlimTheGreat]

Depends on the location. Some areas might be fine to leave cats out. My dad grew up in the outskirts of a town so coyotes got any stray cats. Where I live now, the middle of the city, we used to have 2 cats that would roam the streets some. One got sick and had to get put down because some *angry words here* dumped anti freeze likely on purpose into the alley(anti freeze is extremely sweet, animals love it but it of course kills them). The second lived to its early twenties but thats likely because they didn't go out much some time after the first cat died. It was a rare 'gift' to find a dead bird sitting at the back door(they look so proud of their work!). Problem is in the neighborhood there is at least 100 cats living outside. Theres a few properties they guard with a dozen or so cats(likely because they are fed there) and it really is a problem(litter box smell galore).

Depending on the area, and assuming the cats are neutered/spayed, it can be a fine thing but like you said there is risk.

[You, sir, name?]

One got sick and had to get put down because some *angry words here* dumped anti freeze likely on purpose into the alley(anti freeze is extremely sweet, animals love it but it of course kills them).

This doesn't make sense. Cats are purely predators and hence can't taste sweet. It basically doesn't serve them any purpose, as nothing in their natural diet is sweet, and nothing that looks like their diet but is harmful to them is sweet either.

[Shivahn]

Dogs are also predatory and I'm pretty sure they can taste sweet. Otherwise my sister's dog's fruit love is even weirder.

The cat family actually does have sweet receptors, they're just broken, which didn't matter because they never used them much anyway.

[You, sir, name?]

Dogs are also predatory and I'm pretty sure they can taste sweet. Otherwise my sister's dog's fruit love is even weirder.

Dogs are primarily carnivores but as they are also scavengers, and can eat a variety of different things (including a diet consisting mostly of vegetable matter).
Cats are obligate carnivores. Their natural diet consists of meat and nothing but meat. If you feed cats a diet that isn't primarily meat-based, it will kill them.

[Shivahn]

Right, but even given that, being predatory isn't the reason they don't have a sweet receptor; it's just the reason that they managed to lose it as a species.

[Lazar]

Their natural diet consists of meat and nothing but meat. If you feed cats a diet that isn't primarily meat-based, it will kill them.

A further point: cats can't survive on meat cooked for human consumption. Cooking denatures taurine, a necessary compound that cats are unable to synthesize.

[Deva]

Raided a cupboard for a bag of marshmallows in the middle of the night. Required a path of floor to counter to microwave, and then nosing open the cupboard and extracting it. Awoke to discover the nibbled-on bag under the dining room table. Remains baffled as to why that was chosen. Never did that before or again.

May not taste the sugar. Still might appear edible.

[Shivahn]

The texture might be nice. Or there could be other compounds that make it taste pleasant, without the sugar.