0949: "File Transfer"

[godprobe]

Seriously, there should be some simple, 100 KB program that lets two people exchange public IP addresses, one selects a file/folder and clicks send, the other clicks receive, UDP packets get bounced off NATs until they traverse them, and the file is transferred at maximal speed without any external server (maybe throw in some compression/encryption). Sadly, when I Googled for such a thing I came up empty.

close, from 2003 (original was just under 200 KB) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASTE

simple, but it (and most of the suggestions in the thread) won't pass the "would-you-ask-your-mom/cousin-to-do-this?" test.

[jonadab]

I usually just use scp. It's easy, and it works.

But of course ordinary Windows users don't have scp or ssh, so if I'm sending to Aunt Tillie's Windows box I use Apache on my end and send Aunt Tillie an IP-address-based URL that will only work until the next time my DHCP lease expires (or until I remove the file from /var/www/, whichever comes first). Aunt Tillie, presumably, has a web browser, so that works.

The only time you run into trouble is when you have to send from one Windows box to another -- a circumstance I don't encounter much. The only reason it's a problem there is because Windows is so unbelievably lame, it ships with a few pieces of worthless drossware and absolutely NO useful software of any kind.

Wait, I take that back. The latest version now ships with a screenshot-taking utility called the "snipping tool". That's useful.

It doesn't come with an ssh server *or* client, though; nor does it include wget or curl or sftp or, you know, ANYTHING for transferring large files. It doesn't even have rsync (not that I'd use that for a one-time transfer unless desperate). The web server is much harder to deal with than Apache: harder to turn on and off, harder to set up, harder to manage; not to mention significantly less secure. Also, it doesn't ship with a mailreader worth having. Basically, it's not an operating system you want to use on an internet-connected system.

[SpaceShipRat]

So? When will we get to transfer files directly across two computers? Having to copy stuff to a pen drive or an external HD every time I want to move a film to my laptop is a pain.

[tekacs]

Having tried almost everything anyone has mentioned over the years (from KickSend to SFTP to Dropbox to Mediafire to NetCat over SSH to ...) I haven't found anything as convenient as CloudApp (http://cl.ly/) - it's only useful for files up to 250MB (pro, or 25MB free, but subscriptions are preposterously cheap) but the official Mac app and FluffyApp for Windows are both utterly brilliant, with a keyboard shortcut or drag-and-drop being enough to share a file and get a shortlink (like http://cl.ly/2I463m0h3s1G1b1Z0p38 or http://cl.ly/9zOP at your discretion) on your clipboard in no more than the time it takes to upload. The API means that there are quite a few interesting uses of it out there and some of us write our own...

Just a happy user...

[ThemePark]

I never thought I would ever say this, but; Randall, get out of my head!

There, I said it.

Just yesterday I was struggling to send 70MBs of pics I made of my little niece to her dad, all the services I knew either wanted me to register, both the sender and receiver, or began to whine when the file became bigger than 25MBs. I actually went into winrar to see if there was an option for cutting the .zip up into smaller pieces like you did in the old days with ARJ. Remember ARJ? That was awesome, the first DOS command I knew by heart, I was 8 years old and ARJ-ing the hell out of bootlegged software I even remember getting Duke 3D on 90 floppy disks from a friend of mine, neatly cut into 1.4MB pieces.

Those were the days.

By the way, my brother in law still hasn't seen the pictures...

ARJ was awesome. <3

But WinZip has that option.

[kargoth]

This brings me back to when friends and I would transfer files via hyperterminal [direct dialing from one modem to another]. You could also chat with it - you wouldn't see what you typed, but they could.

[bigchiefbc]

Really? It's like $3 a month for a domain name and a site on a web server. You don't even have to know how to make a website at all. My webspace doesn't even have an index.htm. It's just a collection of every file I've ever needed to transfer or link to. Anyone in the world can access any file on it, with just a hyperlink. That's worth $3 a month for me.

[dexeron]

The worst thing about this problem is that you invariably end up using a USB drive, and have to endure debates between people about whether it's actually called a "thumb drive", a "jump drive", a "stick", a "pen", a "dongle", or any other weird colloquial term.

Or maybe that's just my friends...

But I'm so guilty of resorting to sneaker-net. Sometimes it just ends up being more convenient, especially for really big files when the other computer's not on the same network but isn't too far away, because I always have a USB drive of some sort on me at all times.

[Logifal]

Are you telling me you don't know how to split a file?

[rabidmuskrat]

I know I personally resort to sneaker-net far more often than I'd like. I'd say a lot of that is a side effect of operating on a not particularly fast DSL line to save money though. Transfering a 2 GB file on a 1.5 DSL line isn't the fastest thing in the world.

[beav]

The sneakernet lives!

[drachefly]

AIM direct connect is my usual method. It's especially simple since I normally get the file requests via aim!

We had this problem a lot in the lab - you were not allowed to stick USB devices in the microscope computers because of viruses. The microscope computers were also on a totally firewalled state because of these weird bulgarian hackers who kept on trashing everything they could find, and the microscope computers couldn't be altered enough to make them safe any other way without voiding the warranty with the supplier. So the only way to get stuff off was to put it on a central server via some sort of remote disk mount, or a web service. The former was preferred and reasonably usable, but sometimes it was not logged in and the facility manager wasn't around to log us back in.

So, web services it is. Too bad windows didn't come with ftp! What's left?

Email would corrupt the data because the binary files contained a text header!
…
and so would the bundled windows file compression utility!!!

So I ended up adapting a web application I had previously developed, stripping it down so it would just accept file uploads and store them locally. That worked.

[TaylorP]

This comic is so true on so many levels.

At home I got lots of complaints from my parents about having to go find a USB/HDD to move stuff between the two computers. I ended up showing them how to use Windows sharing folders and it seems to be working out as the complaints stopped. For things between friends I mostly just use a USB, though I have admitted used the self-email method a few times. I like DropBox but not many people I know seem to use it. Maybe I know the wrong people.

[s^2]

there are (very few) http file sending services that support direct p2p transfer, by using the widely-beloved Adobe Flash plugin (just google for it).

still requires you to pass the link to the recipient though...

[Sprocket]

I think emailing yourself a file is bloody awesome. Why? Cuz it's a simple effin' solution. It just works. Now if your goal is to send it to someone else in general, then it's maybe less simple, but simple is in the situation. If it's too complicated to explain to your friend what they need to do, and you'll be going over to their place some time anyway, it still maybe just makes sense.

[BAReFOOt]

PROTIP1: All instant messengers support file transfer. That has been the standard way since 1996 with ICQ. Nowadays everyone has something like a Google mail adress. And with MS there's MSN. Which always means they have an instant messenger account too, and can accept file transfers when loogged in. Even with the web interface.

PROTIP2: Opera Unite!! ’nuff said! (How the fuck is something like this not a common standard everyone has by now??)

PROTIP3: Me: “You can just upload it to my server using my web form here: http://me.server.tld/pub/upload.php. You’ll get a shortened link that you can send or tell him.”

I thought everyone did one of the above.

[BAReFOOt]

Really? It's like $3 a month for a domain name and a site on a web server.

More like $0. Your box already is on the web. DynDNS + Opera Unite = problem solved.
(What do you mean, you switched your computer off while I loaded the file from you that you wanted me to have?? ^^)

[huangho]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned netcat file transfer yet.

At the sender:

Code: Select all

nc [target ip] [some port] < [file you want to send]

At the receiver:

Code: Select all

nc -l -p [same port] > [some filename]

Sure, it's *kinda* ugly, but assuming both the sender and the receiver have netcat it is quite easy (and you don't have to worry about your ISP blocking ftp ports or stuff like that, as you can pick any port. 12345 is a favourite of mine.).

I came here just to mention this. It comes preinstalled with most GNU/Linux distributions, so you don't have to install/configure anything to use it. The only problem is that there seems to be some three versions of netcat around, with slightly different command-line options (I remember "-l -p PORT" not working on Ubuntu). Also, you have to specify a "-q 0" option either in the server or in the client, otherwise it hangs forever after the file is transfered.

Addendum: netcat has ten thousand other uses. One of the more interesting is remotely acessing a system (when you don't care about security):

Code: Select all

netcat -l -p 12345 -c 'bash 2>&1'   # Server
netcat 10.1.1.1 12345               # Client

You can actually run the shell in the client, which can be useful if NAT/firewalls are involved at the side of the system to be acessed. Of course all communication goes in plaintext, and whoever connects first gets access to the server (unless you specify a target host together with -l). Also, you get a line-buffered terminal, which means that you don't get readline-editing in the shell and you cannot run Vim/Emacs, but who cares? Ed is the standard text editor anyway.

[jpablo]

i've had this problem so many times it's not even funny anymore.

[cellocgw]

Is it possible (with software) to use a USB cable to connect two computers directly together for file transfer? I'm always doing the email-self thing with my desktop and laptop because finding and using a USB stick takes much more time.

Yes but only if you buy a special USB dongulator -- it's a cable with a chip in the middle that 'pretends' to look like a USB storage device to both computers.

If your computers are that close together, why not stretch an Ethernet cable? Then you just need to look at the right NetworkNeighborhood, pick out the correct GroupName, hope the authentication on XP-sp2 matches that of Win7 .... ahhh the heck with it. Just print it, scan it, and OCR it.

[Anonymously Famous]

No mention yet of IP over Avian Carriers?

A lot of firms I work with use YouSendIt. Seems to work, and not too many annoying "upgrade now" e-mails. Not too many...

The company I work at uses YouSendIt sometimes, though we do have an FTP server, so it's only very rarely.

[bigchiefbc]

Really? It's like $3 a month for a domain name and a site on a web server.

More like $0. Your box already is on the web. DynDNS + Opera Unite = problem solved.
(What do you mean, you switched your computer off while I loaded the file from you that you wanted me to have?? ^^)

Yeah, that is exactly the problem I would have with your solution. I have no desktop right now, just my laptop, which I do not leave on when I leave the house.

[bobbbbbbby1234]

Clearly some people here inhabit a bubble where the majority of their circel are programmers or highly computer literate. Some of the solutions mentioning setting up servers, or running Linux command line programs are way off the mark. In the vast majority of cases, web users don't even know what a browser is, never mind an OS. And they shouldn't have to. It should be as simple as sending an email with a file attachment. The average user doesn' care whether the file goes through a 3rd party server, or whether it's a direct connection. A lot of people I know use Skype to transfer files, but it's painfully slow.

[eidako]

Really? It's like $3 a month for a domain name and a site on a web server.

More like $0. Your box already is on the web. DynDNS + Opera Unite = problem solved.

Many ISPs bar home servers, either by explicitly prohibiting it in the ToS or blocking all the useful ports. This happens to be the case for my provider. It ticks me off to no end.

[Dwight]

Hmm. Well, I'm glad it wasn't just me. I wonder who did say it first? Edit: Apparently it was originally said by Andrew S Tanenbaum, in his book Computer Networks. Prentice-Hall. ISBN 0-13-349945-6.

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway

The saying predates that by at least a decade, likely more. I first heard it as "never underestimate the bandwidth of a truck full of floppies travelling down the highway at 60 mph".

[Bobsama]

If I have a big file transfer, I either torrent it or try something like Dropbox. The former is far more flexible while the latter does have a web-based UI. Works decently but yeah having to register can suck. Otherwise, I often use the email-it-to-yourself/them method which works pretty well if you know their email. Useful for fellow students (who have .edu emails and a central DB): not so useful for your friends or family (unless you have their email--which I often don't).

I usually suggest torrents. Some people would have you believe that all torrents are illegal but the authorities, if they're going by that simple logic, still need to find you and prove that what you're sharing is illegal. Most ISP's ban hosting servers and ban illegal file sharing.

[mcv]

Many ISPs bar home servers, either by explicitly prohibiting it in the ToS or blocking all the useful ports.

What are useful ports? Are there also useless ports?

This happens to be the case for my provider. It ticks me off to no end.

Then go to a different provider! If cool providers were to gain customers and lame providers were to lose them, cool providers would eventually dominate. Not to mention that lame ones might decide to become cool too.

(My provider is cool as far as I know.)

[BAReFOOt]

Yeah, that is exactly the problem I would have with your solution. I have no desktop right now, just my laptop, which I do not leave on when I leave the house.

I think everyone should have either a small always-on home server (for audio/video playback, including streaming, as an answering machine for all forms of communication, etc), or access to an equivalent of that, hosted by someone else.
Like the Unity part of Opera, but separate and on another computer. As a default built into the OS. Like when you install the OS, you can either say that your own box will be the server, and then it will on shutdown not really shut down but go to server-only mode, or choose a provider via a automated API, that allows for offline message/file (same thing really) storage.

I will definitely consider building that into the graphical shell I’m programming right now. (Which has *nothing* to do with whatever you could imagine as a graphical shell. It doesn’t have applications, windows, buttons, start menus, task bars, files, or any of that shit. And while that’s hard to imagine if you haven’t seen it, that’s why it’s better for professionals and your grandma alike.)

[sorsoup]

In the vast majority of cases, web users don't even know what a browser is, never mind an OS. And they shouldn't have to. It should be as simple as sending an email with a file attachment. The average user doesn' care whether the file goes through a 3rd party server, or whether it's a direct connection. A lot of people I know use Skype to transfer files, but it's painfully slow.

I think this is getting us to a more interesting discussion: Not what tools are available that we could individually decide to use to transfer files, but why is there nothing really easy and convenient that is in widespread use by people that use email and the web.

And is the situation likely to change.

I think NAT has been a part of making this harder, and the fact that windows and dos became popular just before the internet did. I also remember that ISPs used to bundle free web hosting in the UK in the 90s, but I think that has pretty much stopped now, probably for lack of interest.

IPv6 will reduce the NAT issue eventually, but I think the culture of not connecting directly to other people's home computers will remain for a long time.

[BAReFOOt]

Many ISPs bar home servers, either by explicitly prohibiting it in the ToS or blocking all the useful ports. This happens to be the case for my provider. It ticks me off to no end.

Uuum, how do they do that, why do you put up with that, and why did you sign a contract with such ToS in the first place?
Are the blocking *all* incoming connections?

In Germany, the routers themselves have become so featureful, that they basically are home servers themselves. Complete with allowing you to stick in a USB drive and offering that via FTP, WWW, SMB (Windows file sharing), DNAS media streaming, and others. With printer server support. Etc, etc. And they are not secretive at all about replacing the firmware of the device. There’s a simple menu item in the web interface. You choose the file, it flashes it, done. I even updated the boot loader to be able to install the firmware that offers the DNAS functionality. They offered all that freely on their site, with detailed instructions on how to install it.
They encourage the lifestyle of having your own home server.

This is, as far as I know, because they compete in router features, and this has become an active selling point: “We got the bestetest router of all! It can do everything!”.

No idea what made them follow such a super-Nazi-South-Korean-lock-in path in your country. :/

[radtea]

The program is not finished yet but the main functionality is working. It's my first post here, so I can't post links. But if anyone is interested in testing, using, contributing please contact me.

Looks very cool. I've taken the liberty of posting the link:
http://code.google.com/p/omnibus-filetransfer/

[dshigure]

No need to install anything with Dropbox though. I mean, you probably should if you use it all the time, but you can use the web interface and the public folder to transfer files better than the MegaDelayPopupUploadShare sites.

That, and for each person you get to use this, you get to add more space to your account.

[eidako]

Many ISPs bar home servers, either by explicitly prohibiting it in the ToS or blocking all the useful ports.

What are useful ports? Are there also useless ports?

FTP, SSH, HTTP, POP, IRC, etc. The default ports for all of the basic services.

I guess it could be said that Echo, Discard, QOTD, TIME, and Gopher are fairly useless ports...

This happens to be the case for my provider. It ticks me off to no end.

Then go to a different provider!

I live in a podunk town surrounded by mountains. The closest computer store is three hours away and my Craigslist region covers about half the state. My options are limited.

Not that my ISP is a hick show -- it's one of the top 5 in the country. My last ISP, on the other hand, was amateur hour. I couldn't host services on that one for an entirely different reason; incoming traffic to my IP was routed to one of their systems. I sent them a bunch of spoofed emails from obama@whitehouse.gov (via their unsecured SMTP server) to try to bring it to their attention, but was never able to get a response. ¯\(º o)/¯

[worxman02]

I think dropbox is the easiest solution to file transfers between computers when files are over the 25MB file limit for email. Yes, you do have to sign up but it's a secure service and you can get by with just using the web UI. Plus the ability to create shareable links to any of your files is great.

[6502programmer]

Wouldn't that be "Sir Tim Berners-Lee sheds a single tear"

[tertiumsquid]

The method I use, for what it's worth, is OpenVPN with static keys, dynamic DNS, and SMB sharing. Works great with any file size, though I am limited by my 1mbit upload speed. I keep the static keys and the program in an encrypted RAR on my cellphone, so I always have them. Also, the vpn and dyndns services are running on my DD-WRT router which also offers wake-on-lan, so it'll access all my machines even if they go to sleep.

[Kristopher]

This looks like an opportunity for someone to create a new application. Here is a proposal for anyone interested. If this idea is unique to me, I am putting it into the public domain. Have fun.


If you want to have a file sent to you, use the application to send an email with a single use key to the file sender along with a URL on a unique random port number. The application sits on the port and runs a very simple web page there. The file sender can then open the link in the email, and has a few minutes to use the web page to pick a file and start to send it.

It could also be used to send a single file once via said page.

Once it is used, it would shut down.


Only one side of this needs the application, the other side only needs a web browser.

[bigjeff5]

The only reason it's a problem there is because Windows is so unbelievably lame, it ships with a few pieces of worthless drossware and absolutely NO useful software of any kind.

What the fuck chuck?

The reason Windows ships with very limited software options is because every time they try to do something nice*, linuxtards** like you scream "Monopoly! Anti-Trust! Microsoft is Evil! Bill Gates should be in jail!" And then you have the nerve to say Windows sucks because it doesn't come bundled with software?

Shut the fuck up asshole.

Linux is great, I'm not trashing it, but your average user can't use it. That is, they are not capable of using Linux. That is, Linux is the least user-friendly consumer OS on the market. It does no good to trash talk Windows in the hopes that they will replace it with Linux - 9 times out of 10 they will hate Linux far more than they every hated Windows after using it for a while. Your best bet is to steer people towards Mac, if you really hate a product you don't use that much (I don't do this, though, because Apple is quite possibly the most evil company on the planet. Make real good products though).

*Microsoft does a lot of nice things for Windows admins and developers - all of the fancy tools (well, most of them anyway) people whine about Windows not having are just a couple clicks away on the Microsoft website, completely free. Of course, linuxtards think touching anything Microsoft related will cause their faces to melt, so they don't even think about checking with Microsoft.

**I do not think all Linux users are linuxtards. Some of my best friends prefer Linux, and most of them are not linuxtards. I do think jonadab is a linuxtard, though.

[jag426]

By far the best way to do this is Skype. Most people have it, and you can transfer a file of any size just by right-clicking a contact's name.

Bittorrent is also good, but fewer people will be prepared to set this up and use it for this purpose.

[eidako]

For those interested, some snippets from the Acceptable Use policies from some of the largest service providers in the United States:

Technical restrictions
* use or run dedicated, stand-alone equipment or servers from the Premises that provide network
content or any other services to anyone outside of your Premises local area network (“Premises
LAN”), also commonly referred to as public services or servers. Examples of prohibited
equipment and servers include, but are not limited to, e-mail, Web hosting, file sharing, and proxy
services and servers;

5. Servers. You may not operate, or allow others to operate, servers of any type or any other device, equipment, and/or software providing server-like functionality in connection with the Service, unless expressly authorized by Cox.

Customer may set up one (1) web page per service account for personal use of the Service, but Customer may not establish a web page using a server located at Customer's home. Customer will not use, or allow others to use, Customer's home computer as a web server, FTP server, file server or game server or to run any other server applications or to provide network or host services to others via Charter's network.

God forbid that you use the Internet for the reason it was created.