Terra Nova

[Idhan]

Good lord. It was awful, judging from the pilot.

Spoilers within:

Spoiler:

First of all, the illicit third child, Zooey. I mean, they've kept her hidden away from the authorities for a while, but what's the plan? I mean, are they going to home school her in between their demanding jobs as a doctor and a cop, or just not educate her? Is there are black market for schools for kids after the second? Did they have the authorities bribed, but some "tough on corruption" new chief cracked down and ended their deal? I don't know. It was never explained how they were supposed to be raising a child as two working parents without anyone in the outside world knowing.

Second, hyperoxia is a big problem when arriving circa 85 million BC? Has anyone on this show checked on oxygen levels in the cretaceous? What about CO2 levels? What about glancing as IPCC projections for worst-case increases in CO2?

Why are the dinosaurs so aggressive? Isn't there any easier or more rewarding prey to catch than small mammals encased in armored vehicles and armed with machineguns?

Why are dinosaurs immune to vehicle-mounted machinegun fire? Seriously. There's no reason the vehicles couldn't use mounted Browning M2s or better, and .50 caliber BMG rounds are more powerful than the actual rounds used for hunting extremely large, tough game, like elephants.

Okay. Technical quibbling is for dorks. What about the shows artistic qualities rather than its mindless adherence to realism? What about it's brilliant dialogue? Except it was trite and predictable with an Andromeda-like quality of consisting of disjointed one-liners rather than coherent interaction. Maybe compelling characters? Not really. The twist -- that those evil outlaw Sixers are really maybe the good guys? Who didn't see that one coming?

PROTIP: If you're trying to keep a secret from your adoptive dad, maybe don't tell the cute boy you just met, whom you don't know well at all, but from what you have seen, seems to be impulsive and reckless?

What did you think? My dad thought maybe it was aimed at a younger crowd -- teenagers and such. Still, programs for young adults can still be good, and should be.

[thc]

Watching it right now, and yeah, it's pretty bad. No idea how it good such good reviews. Actually, I shouldn't be surprised... It feels like Live Action Avatar. Stephen Lang plays the exact same military hard-ass. I give it a 70% chance he turns out to be the Evil Bad Guy.

[Idhan]

I rather liked Avatar, for all its flaws. Would it really have been too hard, by the way, to mention a scary theropod other than an allosaurus for a show set around 85 million years ago? You know: Something that hadn't been extinct then as long as tyrannosauruses have been today? It's not even as if they had an allosaurus model or something that they needed to use. There was just a distant roar and the security people are like "Allosaurus. Set the sonic mines at 3 o'clock" or whatever. It would have been just as easy to say "aerosteon" or something.

[Chen]

Comments in bold in the spoiler block

Good lord. It was awful, judging from the pilot.

Spoilers within:

Spoiler:

First of all, the illicit third child, Zooey. I mean, they've kept her hidden away from the authorities for a while, but what's the plan? I mean, are they going to home school her in between their demanding jobs as a doctor and a cop, or just not educate her? Is there are black market for schools for kids after the second? Did they have the authorities bribed, but some "tough on corruption" new chief cracked down and ended their deal? I don't know. It was never explained how they were supposed to be raising a child as two working parents without anyone in the outside world knowing.

It depends how common the having an extra child thing is. And if there are provisions for allowing it in some cases. If there was a lottery of some sort that allowed an extra child it would be fairly easy to lie about something like that to everyone except probably the government. Schools probably wouldn't even be checking things like that

Second, hyperoxia is a big problem when arriving circa 85 million BC? Has anyone on this show checked on oxygen levels in the cretaceous? What about CO2 levels? What about glancing as IPCC projections for worst-case increases in CO2?

Yeah I didn't get the point of that either

Why are the dinosaurs so aggressive? Isn't there any easier or more rewarding prey to catch than small mammals encased in armored vehicles and armed with machineguns?

Agreed, though I suppose it could be a territorial issue thing. Not just trying to eat them but rather protecting their territory

Why are dinosaurs immune to vehicle-mounted machinegun fire? Seriously. There's no reason the vehicles couldn't use mounted Browning M2s or better, and .50 caliber BMG rounds are more powerful than the actual rounds used for hunting extremely large, tough game, like elephants.

Not to mention futuristic machine gun fire. Even those handheld weapons would probably have been tearing the slashers to pieces unless they had some massive bone plates beneath their skin. I mean those slashers were not even the size of elephants and I'm pretty sure you could kill one of those with a normal machine gun. At the very least you'd make it run away and it would still probably bleed to death

PROTIP: If you're trying to keep a secret from your adoptive dad, maybe don't tell the cute boy you just met, whom you don't know well at all, but from what you have seen, seems to be impulsive and reckless?

But she ended up telling her dad in the end anyways didn't she? I specifically recall her saying they were drinking.

[Idhan]

Spoiler:

But she ended up telling her dad in the end anyways didn't she? I specifically recall her saying they were drinking.

I was referring to the chalk equations and diagrams and such that she showed him at the bottom of the waterfall. She lied that they had been nowhere near there.

P.S. Is "hydroxic" just a more confusing word for "basic" or "alkaline?"

[SummerGlauFan]

Yeah, the dialogue had quite a bit lacking. I honestly expected at least the same level of dialogue you would expect from Star Trek, since that's the fan base you would want to reach with something like this.

And to quote my parents who watched it with me; "Are there no non-beautiful people sent to the past?"

I rather liked Avatar, for all its flaws. Would it really have been too hard, by the way, to mention a scary theropod other than an allosaurus for a show set around 85 million years ago? You know: Something that hadn't been extinct then as long as tyrannosauruses have been today? It's not even as if they had an allosaurus model or something that they needed to use. There was just a distant roar and the security people are like "Allosaurus. Set the sonic mines at 3 o'clock" or whatever. It would have been just as easy to say "aerosteon" or something.

Perhaps a carnosaur that just looked like Allosaurus. The fossil record is ridiculously incomplete, so it's possible that something previously unknown that looks like some other animal you already know just winds up getting called that.

BTW, I called the equations being written by the leader's vanished son some 30 minutes before the episode said it.

[NonSequitur]

Any one familiar with the work of Brannon "humans are destined to evolve into giant salamanders" Braga will recognize his hand in the "science" here. Hyperoxia? Treated with bloodletting? Good lord. But nitpicking aside, it's an interesting concept with a lot of potential. I suspect the teen angst subplots are going to get really old really fast though.

[SummerGlauFan]

Any one familiar with the work of Brannon "humans are destined to evolve into giant salamanders" Braga will recognize his hand in the "science" here. Hyperoxia? Treated with bloodletting? Good lord. But nitpicking aside, it's an interesting concept with a lot of potential. I suspect the teen angst subplots are going to get really old really fast though.

That evolution didn't happen to get triggered by traveling really, really fast, did it?

I hated that episode of Voyager.

[NonSequitur]

Haha yep that's the one. Fast enough to occupy all points in the universe simultaneously, no less.

[SlyReaper]

Spoiler:

For God's sake, when those little bat things got into the house, did nobody think to just grab one out the air and snap its neck? There were only two of them, and they were about the size of a small cat.

Actually, I have to say I dislike the fact that the dinosaurs are so bloody aggressive all the bloody time. These creatures have never even seen a human before, let alone know what to do with one once caught. Also, it's very likely that human flesh would be toxic to a dinosaur. I mean, they did mention that local food was toxic to humans, and they hand-waved it with some goopy milkshake potion. Surely it should work the other way around too?

Oh, and shouldn't some of those dinosaurs have feathers? It's late Cretaceous; I'm sure there were quite a few feathered dinosaurs running around by then. You'd think if you were producing a series that included dinosaurs, you'd know that.

OH and one last thing. The logo at the start shows the Earth's continents arranged in the form of Pangaea. That's not what the continents looked like! That was about 200 million years earlier.

Edit: More ranting.

Spoiler:

It's also very immersion breaking to have this tiny colony beyond the reach of the rest of humanity, and all the new arrivals are being put in these luxury bungalows. How did they build such things? There's no hint of even the slightest industrialisation; they should be living in mud huts and canvass tents for crying out loud. But no, it's "sit back in a nice comfy armchair and don't get mud on the carpets".

And how many idiot balls are going around? You've just arrived in a strange jungle environment with scary dangerous monsters lurking in it, and you're protected by a 30 foot high security fence with armed guards at the gates. Is the first thought that crosses your mind "I think I'll go bimble around in the scary jungle with some idiots I just met, without any guns, without telling anyone, and go swimming in water that might have anything living in it."

And will we ever get an explanation as to why that copper and his wife decided to have a third child when it was forbidden?

[SummerGlauFan]

It was my understanding that the food was not toxic, just different than their bodies were used to digesting. Like the first time I ate Indian food, and "redecorated" the bathroom a few hours later.

[Sockmonkey]

Idhan pretty well summed it up. Younger audiences aren't stupid. When are writers gonna learn that just because it's a teen story doesn't mean you can get away with making it dumb.

Spoiler:

The only oddity I'm letting them get away with is the houses and stuff since they could have just sent prefab stuff manufactured in the future through the portal. I'm not giving them a scrap of credit for it though, since I doubt that's what they were thinking when they wrote it.

It did bug me that they have all the cars powered by fuel cells/batteries they can't possibly replace and didn't bring any steam engines. Will they get a constant supply of crap from the future, or is this it?

IIRC you need at least 500 people for your genetic base to be broad enough for a society to survive.

[SummerGlauFan]

Did the last episode remind anyone of Stargate Atlantis? They also did a disease that caused memory loss.

[SlyReaper]

There was a drug that caused wraiths to turn into humans and caused them to lose all memory. Is that what you're thinking of?

[Chen]

There was a drug that caused wraiths to turn into humans and caused them to lose all memory. Is that what you're thinking of?

I'm pretty sure there was an episode where they actually lost all their memory and McKay was going around with his pre-recorded computer telling him things about how to fix it. Lorne's team also started rounding people up and locking them away for some reason and ended up being the "bad guys" in that episode.

The amnesia episode was pretty trite. No real character development, some minor backstory insight into people and no real advancing of the plot except the bit with the sixers at the end. The show just seems tedious. That said, I recall how terrible the first seasons of SG1 and TNG were so I'm going to give it a BIT of slack, especially since they are sticking to fairly typical Sci-fi storylines. Ideally characters will start being modified as the actors get into things and the show may become more bearable.

[SummerGlauFan]

There was a drug that caused wraiths to turn into humans and caused them to lose all memory. Is that what you're thinking of?

I'm pretty sure there was an episode where they actually lost all their memory and McKay was going around with his pre-recorded computer telling him things about how to fix it. Lorne's team also started rounding people up and locking them away for some reason and ended up being the "bad guys" in that episode.

This.

Honestly, other than the whole rip-off-Atlantis thing, my only real complaint about this episode was the fact that the disease was cured by

Spoiler:

the common cold. Really?

I thought this one had the most character development yet. Too bad their science stunk.

The amnesia episode was pretty trite. No real character development, some minor backstory insight into people and no real advancing of the plot except the bit with the sixers at the end. The show just seems tedious. That said, I recall how terrible the first seasons of SG1 and TNG were so I'm going to give it a BIT of slack, especially since they are sticking to fairly typical Sci-fi storylines. Ideally characters will start being modified as the actors get into things and the show may become more bearable.

That's a good point.

[mosc]

SG1's first season was just as bad I agree but the next generation? No, that first season was good. Not decent, not ok, but actually good. Yes, it would improve but there was a lot of good stuff there. Beardless Riker and weird looking non-uniform troy were all new and OK back then.

OT: I like a couple of the actors but I agree the show's premise and writing are both pretty terrible. Also, SG1 is probably too much to hope for because that show was super-low budget to continue. The main props came from the movie set don't forget.

[podbaydoor]

I haven't seen Terra Nova, but this popped up in my newsfeed today:

[SummerGlauFan]

mind=blown.

[kingsnans]

They could have made this show much better. It seems to have a pretty interesting plot beside all the teenage shenanigans and idiotic sub stories. If Michael Bay and 1980's George Lucas worked on this show together it would've been fantastic.

[folkhero]

Disclaimer: I've only seen two episodes, so if the writers are working on fixing this problem, please let me know. I guess a lot of this is me wishing Terra Nova was more like Deadwood, and maybe it's stupid of me to want a dinosaur show on FOX to be anywhere near an all time great show from HBO, but it seems like the writers could have taken a few notes on how to make interesting stories about building a community.

Rant: If you are making a television series about people going back in time to build a new society, you should probably spend some time and effort showing building and community. There is no sense on the show that anything is being built. As someone mentioned the family moves into a really nice house on day one. Who built the house? Does everyone get a nice house like that or do you have to have a high prestige skill set like a doctor? The feeling is that we are inserted into a largely static world where we have adventures of the week with dinosaurs or the people from the other village. It doesn't help that the occupations of the adults in the family are doctor and law enforcement, which are essentially positions of maintenance.

The even bigger problem is that the show is void of any sense of community, which I think is the main problem of focusing the show on a single family. Everyone one the show is either in the family, or has a direct relationship with someone in the family (not including the sixer people who aren't part of the community at all). This doesn't leave any room for the show to explore how community as a whole interacts. The teenagers and their love interests cant really tell us anything about the society and how it works. We know the leader of the camp, but is he really the only leader? Are there any economic leaders, like someone who figured out how to be a tycoon in the land of dinosaurs, or a union boss that represents the unskilled workers, or crime lords who got power through black and gray markets? Are there community organizers or other political leaders who represent potential threats or possible allies to the leader guy's authority? What are the goals of the community and the people in it other than survival?

[SummerGlauFan]

I must say, I liked this latest episode better. It did a fair amount of character development, involved an issue affecting the whole community, and they built up a little bit of intrigue. Downside is, the Sixers are still being stereotypical vague bad guys, and the leader of Terra Nova is starting to get on my nerves.

[UniqueScreenname]

In regards to what people have been saying about their living arrangements and how they seem to be living pretty comfortably, Terra Nova isn't a new thing. The protagonists joined the community on the 10th pilgrimage. I don't think they do it every year, because the girl that the son likes was either born there or taken over so early that she doesn't remember 2149. ~16 years is plenty of time to set up decent living arrangements if you are focused. It is also long enough for the dinosaurs to figure out they don't like the people, especially if the trigger-happy soldiers just started shooting as soon as they saw them.

I would say my only complaint about the show is the lack of community development also. They give you just enough to appease you, but every episode they give us a new section of the camp we haven't seen before. I would have loved a tour at the beginning. Already sick of the teenagers. I'm 19 and I can't relate to them because they're too stupid, so I have no need for them. I'm also not a fan of the red-shirts-in-Star-Trek trend that gets a new person killed at the beginning of each episode. It just makes it too predictable. These are complaints I have about every TV show with a teenager or a crime to solve, so I can deal with it.

[Chen]

The latest episode was kind of dumb. They shielded the knowledge device thing, but they didn't keep backup chips in a shielded container? Also you'd think they'd have locked that box in a safe or something.

I'm also not sure what the logic is in leaving the Sixers alive. Overall their tech seems inferior and they don't seem to be getting many new members. Yet they're constantly attacking or otherwise trying to harm the people in Terra Nova. You'd think the military would just get fed up after a while (not to mention the citizens).

[SlyReaper]

Spoiler:

Spinosaurs in 85mil BC? That's a bit of a stretch isn't it? I thought they died out at least 10 million years before then?

Also, what are the odds of an EMP asteroid coming down near the settlement? Can asteroids even do that EMP thing? Oh, and who designs a door with a manual release only on the outside?

[TNorthover]

The latest episode was kind of dumb. They shielded the knowledge device thing, but they didn't keep backup chips in a shielded container? Also you'd think they'd have locked that box in a safe or something.

Why bother when you can put the magic smoke back in again?

[Stellazira]

Being somewhat of a dinosaur geek I had high hopes for this, but they just screwed up things after thing, and then the show didn't make sense and time didn't help it so... I stopped caring about it. Nothing seems to make sense, even if you try to stretch it.

[Idhan]

I had watch only few episode of this show and i really liked it.

How does it compare to Misfits, Gilmore Girls, Bones, or The Vampire Diaries?

[Wombat2k]

It`s very similar to the UK series outcasts. It`s nowhere near as good as misfits. You might like it if you like the vampire diaries. It`s good to watch if you enjoy shouting "YOU FOOLS" at the screen while watching.

Latest episode.

Spoiler:

Since the portal stabiliser was built from pieces transported back from the future it can be moved. So they can just rebuild it on the lake mentioned in the first few minutes. This will allow the next pilgrimage to arrive but not allow them to bring tanks. I`m guessing that the son has already thought of this. (lots of chess metaphor going on). So the tanks will turn up without using the stabiliser.

[Chen]

Spoiler:

Since the portal stabiliser was built from pieces transported back from the future it can be moved. So they can just rebuild it on the lake mentioned in the first few minutes. This will allow the next pilgrimage to arrive but not allow them to bring tanks. I`m guessing that the son has already thought of this. (lots of chess metaphor going on). So the tanks will turn up without using the stabiliser.

Season finale spoiler

Spoiler:

They mentioned that the portal still dumps you somewhere within 3 km of where the stabilizer is so its not like they can just put that stabilizer anywhere (as evidenced when the bad guys had to build their new one). Frankly the bad guy's plan was pretty damn good. I'm surprised Taylor didn't see it coming. Blow up the stabilizer, appear somewhere they're NOT expecting and beeline towards Terra Nova. Seemed to work pretty well too. Taylor should really just have had a few long range snipers watching the portal, especially if they really expected people to only come through 2 or 3 at a time, like he said.

Its funny how after brutally beating his son, he still goes to hug him when he starts crying. I mean how can you not see its a trap? Hitting people repeatedly doesn't generally and instantly change their outlook on life. And really I've still yet to see a show where people follow through and ensure people they shoot are dead. I mean, its far enough in the future that these people are almost certain to have watched movies or tv shows themselves where people escape at the last minute. Frankly Sky should have shot Lucas in the truck (at least with the sonic stunner part) to ensure he wasn't getting away.

I'm kinda interested in what next season will be about. Clearly there's another portal area in the badlands. I just gotta wonder where it leads on Earth.

[SlyReaper]

Also, in the day's parade of ineptitude:

Spoiler:

Shannon The Cop went into that bar brawl whilst still carrying that communication device. What the shit? That guy is supposed to be all smart and capable. They might still have believed the brain damage act if it weren't for that.

Why did the baddies let Malcolm continue working on the stabiliser even though they knew he'd lied to them about Shannon's brain damage?

Why was Taylor Junior so trusting of Skye after her sudden "change of heart"? Any moron could see that was a lie, and Taylor Junior is supposed to be incredibly intelligent.

Why did Wash have to stay behind? I'm sure she could have triggered that "distraction" remotely. Even if not, if she wasn't running around immediately after the explosion, they might never have figured out it was her.

Why did that carnotaur not follow Shannon back through the portal? It was inches behind him, so to suggest it got blown up in 2149 and Shannon didn't is to suggest millisecond timing on that bomb.

The stupid. It hurts.

[UniqueScreenname]

Spoiler:

That second question: I didn't even see that. Now I feel stupid. But I guess they needed him...really bad.

As for your last question, in one episode Taylor said something about how the other ppl that went through the portal after him didn't come for like 17 days or something like that. So the Carnosaur could still be coming, we just don't know when. Also, since they have no way to stabilize it, it could have come through somewhere else.

I can't believe Taylor fell for that idiotic Lucas thing. I can't believe Lucas fell for that idiotic Skye thing. The moral of this story is that reasoning based on emotions will end up badly, most likely with terrible injuries.

[Chen]

Responses in Bold

Spoiler:

Shannon The Cop went into that bar brawl whilst still carrying that communication device. What the shit? That guy is supposed to be all smart and capable. They might still have believed the brain damage act if it weren't for that.

He was going after his son. A stupid plan, but I suppose people can get a bit crazy because of loved ones. Still not really excusable though (nor was the not so subtle meeting of all the people trying to rebel in one room)

Why did the baddies let Malcolm continue working on the stabiliser even though they knew he'd lied to them about Shannon's brain damage?

I assumed he just convinced them he had tricked him too.

Why was Taylor Junior so trusting of Skye after her sudden "change of heart"? Any moron could see that was a lie, and Taylor Junior is supposed to be incredibly intelligent.

Why did Wash have to stay behind? I'm sure she could have triggered that "distraction" remotely. Even if not, if she wasn't running around immediately after the explosion, they might never have figured out it was her.

Yeah didn't get that either. I mean she did manage to get people to stop immediately looking around for the family, but it did seem like a pointless sacrifice. Her message to Taylor was also kinda dumb. I mean its not like she had any more insight into matters than him. He could have drawn the same conclusion (and probably should have earlier too)

Why did that carnotaur not follow Shannon back through the portal? It was inches behind him, so to suggest it got blown up in 2149 and Shannon didn't is to suggest millisecond timing on that bomb.

Maybe it got partially through and then the portal got cut off? That seems to extend the time frame to more than a few seconds at least which is at least somewhat more likely. If UniqueScreename's explanation works, then it just opens another plot hole of how the Phoenix group managed to get through all together after blowing up the stabilizer.

[Proginoskes]

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks this is a stupid idea for a show. (No, I haven't watched it; Mom likes it. She also liked Jurassic Park, which I boycotted because Michael Crichton killed off the mathematician in the book.)

Let's see, the world's overpopulated, and everyone will die before (say) 2300. So, to make sure the human race survives, we're going to put them in a time machine and send them ... back?

WTF?

I mean, the human race will still be dead in 2300 with this plan.

And the humans got sent back 85 million years, and surprise surprise, they meet ... dinosaurs.

Gee, who didn't see that one coming? I'm sure their collective IQ was 10 points.

The funny part, as I see it, is that the humans who were sent back will be turned into fossil fuels, and will be burnt by their ancestors. (This is similar to the plot of "The Man Who Ate Himself" by Rudy Rucker.)

The morning of the pilot episode, I was in a half-awake state, and I heard a description of a new show which involved time travel and "85 million years" ... My half-awake brain came up with the idea of having contacted a species 85 million years in the future, who wanted to help us. Or do they? Do they want to make sure they don't mess up our future (their past) and make them not exist? I think that's a more interesting idea, but I'm me ...

[SlyReaper]

They didn't make the time travelling portal, they found it. They can't control when the arrival point is. It's 85 million years in the past or nowt.

[folkhero]

Not to mention the fact that in 85 million years, it doesn't seem that crazy to think that humans might be able to create space colonies, or that with the advantage of technology without the having to go through the industrial revolution and the age of petrol, Earth might not be in such bad shape in 2300. I'd say the premise of the show is it's strongest feature, it's the execution of the premise that is so problematic. I mean, all that money, a cool idea, and dinosaurs; how did it end up so dull?

[Idhan]

The funny part, as I see it, is that the humans who were sent back will be turned into fossil fuels, and will be burnt by their ancestors. (This is similar to the plot of "The Man Who Ate Himself" by Rudy Rucker.)

The morning of the pilot episode, I was in a half-awake state, and I heard a description of a new show which involved time travel and "85 million years" ... My half-awake brain came up with the idea of having contacted a species 85 million years in the future, who wanted to help us. Or do they? Do they want to make sure they don't mess up our future (their past) and make them not exist? I think that's a more interesting idea, but I'm me ...

Okay, I'm not a Terra Nova apologist, but the alleged story is that the 85 million years in the past is in an alternate timeline, which they confirmed by sending an unobtrusive but durable probe into the past then looking for it in their present. I haven't actually watched episodes after the first episode, but I got the impression that maybe the "alternate timeline, no worries about screwing up the future" story may have been a slight oversimplification, or even cover up (and I suspected, as soon as I saw the probe mounted on the pedestal, that it would be destroyed at some point in the plot of the series).

I don't know what's going on in the series now, since I only watched the first episode plus saw a bit of the second one where the two ten-pound pterosaurs are pterrorizing the whole settlement, but the whole butterfly effect couldn't-the-past-affect-the-future question has been addressed in a manner that allegedly makes it a non-issue on the basis of alternate timelines, which is probably the most sensible approach from a physics/logic standpoint too (not that this variety of time travel is plausible -- just maybe more plausible than the kill-your-grandma-so-you-don't-exist variety).

[Proginoskes]

Well, like I said, I don't watch the show.

[Chen]

Well, like I said, I don't watch the show.

If you had, you would have found your criticisms of it moot though. The premise can sound silly, but the details cover the points you thought were silly about it. The dinosaurs themselves don't really seem to be that much of an issue unless you go wandering out n the jungle alone. Which tends to be a bad idea even if there aren't dinosaurs around.