Team Fortress 2

[SirBryghtside]

Great, just when I get nearly all the weapons, they add a new update

I literally have 3 left to get (minus reskins and jumpers)...

[Toeofdoom]

Really? I've found hightower to be the most balanced, there are 3 "stages" that each team can get to - The bottom of the slopes, the top of the slopes, and pushing up the tower. Nightfall's pretty okay but I don't like how spammy the middling part is. Pipeline is hilarious for YER spies but otherwise doesn't provide nearly enough routes around the cart and is not worth it.

Hightower is a pain because it's so open - is feels like it favours snipers and gunslinger engis a lot, while punishing demos, pyros and heavies.

In my own adventures I've discovered that enforcer + dead ringer is extremely effective.

It is a pretty good map for gunslinger, but I think it's actually a rather bad map for snipers. There aren't many long sight lines and there is only one really good place to snipe from. Heavy and demo both do fine on it (they are both very versatile classes), and it's actually a great map for pyro, since you can camp around the corner at the bottom of the hill and push people off the cliff. This trick actually makes it nearly impossible to push up the hill from the corner at the bottom, forcing you to push from the top down.

Yeah, pyros are good around that area, but... well, they're too good at the cliff, and not good enough nearly everywhere else. I suppose you're right about snipers not having many positions and it is pretty easy for a scout or soli to go around killing them wherever they happen to be. Anyway, I still feel like it's less fun than pipeline largely because it's so open, even if pipeline does have all the issues with the first rounds not really mattering.

[BurningLed]

Besides that, it's REALLY easy for pyro to cut people off at the fat healthpack in the middle of those two spots, and the tower itself is a great spot for pyros to camp (effectively denying control of the map to the enemy team, since they can't attack from the vantage point the tower provides). Also, pyro is amazing when you're pushing the cart up to the tower at the last stage, they can reflect all manner of nasty projectiles headed towards your push team.

Singed, a guy who loves Pyro and loves Hightower.

[The Scyphozoa]

I hope that typo was intentional.

[BurningLed]

It wasn't, but thank you for pointing it out to me, because that's quite possibly the best typo I've ever made and I'm going to leave it that way.

[broken_escalator]

Your subconscious is telling you to burn things.

Also, I'm kind of excited about the potential -50hp on tomislav. Not sure how I feel about the backburner though. On one hand I dislike using the backburner, but I know pyro isn't exactly the most mobile class for flanks. Maybe if they made the detonator fart a little beefier, so we could actually jump somewhere!

If pyro is getting a reserve shooter shotgun I will be super excited. I recently started using mine on solly and I love it ever so much!

[EmptySet]

I'm not convinced it's necessary to nerf the Backburner. It seems like the Degreaser/Axtinguisher combo is just as common, if not more so, and kills only marginally slower. Also the Degreaser would combo well with the Reserve Shooter if that is added, making it even more powerful.

[Derek]

Also, I'm kind of excited about the potential -50hp on tomislav.

I don't think it's the right change. The Tomislav is supposed to be an ambush weapon right? So any change should preserve it's effectiveness in ambushes, while nerfing it in head-to-head fights. I think this could be done by either increasing the spread so it's mid to long range DPS is reduced, or by reducing it's ammo capacity, so that you would run out of ammo in mid to long range engagements, but would be able to kill your opponent and collect his ammo in an ambush.

I'm not convinced it's necessary to nerf the Backburner.

It's absolutely not, but Valve will do anything to try to stop W+M1.

[broken_escalator]

I think I would prefer increased spread over the minus HP. I'm just tired of seeing tomislav everywhere

[Rek]

I'm not convinced it's necessary to nerf the Backburner.

It's absolutely not, but Valve will do anything to try to stop W+M1.

Except that W+M1 isn't even a problem (Silly Valve)

Also,
Pyro:
--- September 29, 2011 ---
Pyro:
Flamethrower:
-Damage increased 10%

Backburner:
-Removed +10% damage bonus

Degreaser:
-Added -10% damage
-Removed -25% burn damage


Flamethrower buff?
Yes.

[Derek]

I'm not convinced it's necessary to nerf the Backburner.

It's absolutely not, but Valve will do anything to try to stop W+M1.

Except that W+M1 isn't even a problem (Silly Valve)

Also,
Pyro:
--- September 29, 2011 ---
Pyro:
Flamethrower:
-Damage increased 10%

Backburner:
-Removed +10% damage bonus

Degreaser:
-Added -10% damage
-Removed -25% burn damage


Flamethrower buff?
Yes.

Significantly, note that the stats are relative to the base weapon. So when they say "Backburner: Removed +10% damage bonus", this doesn't actually change the stats of the weapon, because the base weapon (the Flamethrower) was given the 10% damage bonus. This also means that the Degreaser isn't actually getting nerfed, it's just not receiving the base weapon buff.

This is actually a pretty good change overall. The backburner remains untouched, the flamethrower gets a bit of a buff so it might kind or sort of have a role, and the degreaser gets a miniscule buff (the -25% burn damage never mattered much anyways).

[EmptySet]

Flamethrower buff?
Yes.

Significantly, note that the stats are relative to the base weapon. So when they say "Backburner: Removed +10% damage bonus", this doesn't actually change the stats of the weapon, because the base weapon (the Flamethrower) was given the 10% damage bonus. This also means that the Degreaser isn't actually getting nerfed, it's just not receiving the base weapon buff.

This is actually a pretty good change overall. The backburner remains untouched, the flamethrower gets a bit of a buff so it might kind or sort of have a role, and the degreaser gets a miniscule buff (the -25% burn damage never mattered much anyways).

Oh, that's... not quite as bad as I thought, then. It will actually weaken the Degreaser relative to the standard flamethrower - the -25% burn damage was almost irrelevant anyways.

[broken_escalator]

So now flamethrowers are as powerful as they used to be? Interesting.

[The Scyphozoa]

Aw, man! I was using Flare Gun and Axetinguisher, and the 10% on the Backburner was my only advantage against enemy pyros.

[Xeio]

Aw, man! I was using Flare Gun and Axetinguisher, and the 10% on the Backburner was my only advantage against enemy pyros.

I always hated backburner pyros for this reason. Now my standard flamethrower shall dominate all pyro!

Unless they have shotgun I guess.

[BurningLed]

Generally I find pyro duels are rarely decided by the flamethrower you have - How you strafe around the other pyro matters much more. I've won 2v1 pyro flame battles where I started with 50 HP and a Degreaser; and I've lost battles where I had a Backburner and he had 30 HP.

[SirBryghtside]

Wrong. Pyro battles are decided on who went with Flare Gun and who went with Shotty.

And if they both picked the same, it's whoever runs away first who loses.

[The Scyphozoa]

Unless, of course, you manage to get behind them with the backburner.

[BurningLed]

Wrong. Pyro battles are decided on who went with Flare Gun and who went with Shotty.

And if they both picked the same, it's whoever runs away first who loses.

That automatically assumes we both took flare - Otherwise, shotgun user wins, else, it's a shotgun duel (with maybe flame to finish the other off while they reload).

Actually, shotgun duels are decided by flamethrower about half the time too - Whoever took the backburner loses because they can't afford to juggle the other pyro while shotgunning. Assuming one pyro gets the drop on the other, in a fair fight you probably can't juggle them.

[broken_escalator]

It'll change if we get the reserve shooter. Airborn mini-crits please and thank you.

[SirBryghtside]

Feels weird having all the weapons... there are all these loadouts that I've always wanted to try, but end up sucking when I actually use them :/

There are still a few weapons I just haven't ever used, I should probably try them out. Also, I get to stockpile weapons for the first time in years, so that's cool. Planning on trading them all away for 2 random weapons each, and then another 2 for those, and then another 2 for those... capitalism rules

[rath358]

Anyone got an axetinguisher or degreaser? Been meaning to try out that for a long while.
List of non-vintage things I have extras of:

Spoiler:

Chargin' Targe
pain train
flare gun
concheror
backburner
bonk!
scoutsmans skullcutter
equalizer

I also have some extra vintage weapons, if no-one has an extra regular axetinguisher or degreaser.

[SirBryghtside]

Rath, as someone who's recently gotten all of the weapons, I have some advice for you.

Type in 'trade' to the server search bar.

I promise you that less than 5 seconds after you type 'Buying Axtinguisher/Degreaser', you'll get 3 offers. Give them 2 random weapons for each one, and you'll win TF2.

[rath358]

That works, I guess. Thanks!

[SirBryghtside]

But yeah, D&A is pretty much the Pyro tactic. It plays so completely differently to all the other loadouts that it's insane.

[TaintedDeity]

Sadly I am awful at it.

[Box Boy]

Just got a level 89 Towering Pillar of Hats (crafted by Saxton Hale(Does this stay the same forever? Please tell me it does.)) for 1.66 refined when I was trying to craft it anyway.

[broken_escalator]

I welcome you to the towering hat club, and deem you no longer poor and irish.

[Josephine]

Well, he's still Irish.

[Tomlidich]

But yeah, D&A is pretty much the Pyro tactic. It plays so completely differently to all the other loadouts that it's insane.

eh, i never really found much use for that combo. i mainly use the pyro as a suicide unit to drop into an enemies fortified position and light everyone on fire, and cause a panic. makes it easier to get in if they really got an area locked down.

[broken_escalator]

Ah, so you play as w+m1 pyro. When you learn how to axtinguish you will do significantly more damage.

[Xeio]

Ah, so you play as w+m1 pyro. When you learn how to axtinguish you will do significantly more damage.

Support pyro > axe pyro. I'll be busy de-flect/sap/spy-ing while you play with your silly axe.

[BurningLed]

You shouldn't be doing specifically any of those. My pyro experience tells me there's definitely room for rage pyro, combat pyro, and support pyro in a single match. Engie has a spy problem? Stick around, keep those pesky spies and rockets away. Heavy-medic incoming? Sneak around and axtinguish the fuck out of that. 5 enemies all around and you're just about fucked? TROOOOGDOOOOOOR!

[SirBryghtside]

Support pyro > axe pyro. I'll be busy de-flect/sap/spy-ing while you play with your silly axe.

How are any of those excluded by D&A? Apart from sapkilling, obviously, but that'd involve the shame of equipping the homewrecker

[broken_escalator]

Support pyro > axe pyro. I'll be busy de-flect/sap/spy-ing while you play with your silly axe.

Where did I say anything bad about support pyro? Pretty sure I just said that when an w+m1 pyro learns how to axtinguish they will do more damage. It's a lot faster to axtinguish people than try to burn them to death.

Personally I play with gas jocky set because I'm in love with the speed boost. Though I'm not sure why using an axe would make it so a pyro can't deflect or spy check lol

[SirBryghtside]

Yeah, the set does look pretty sexy. Too bad I don't have the right hat...

[broken_escalator]

It's nice being able to chase down spies a lot easier. The worst part was the initial transition though. I kept trying to puff'n'sting but the powerjack does not work that way! Now I burn, blow, shoot and sting.

Needless to say I'm really hoping for a reserve shooter for pyro.

[Tomlidich]

Support pyro > axe pyro. I'll be busy de-flect/sap/spy-ing while you play with your silly axe.

Where did I say anything bad about support pyro? Pretty sure I just said that when an w+m1 pyro learns how to axtinguish they will do more damage. It's a lot faster to axtinguish people than try to burn them to death.

Personally I play with gas jocky set because I'm in love with the speed boost. Though I'm not sure why using an axe would make it so a pyro can't deflect or spy check lol

its not neccesarily about burning them to death, its more of just causing general panic when everyone is on fire from a pyro nobody expected to show up. then thats when all the other units swoop in and take advantage of the now burning and near death people.

[broken_escalator]

If the enemy panics because of a w+m1 pyro then the push that comes after you would have been sufficient alone.

[SirBryghtside]

I think he was referring to the 'being on fire' bit. Which is true - not just panic, but legit panic. Because there's a good chance they're going to die.