1: If a scum with no powers beyond their inherent NK, lie detector, bonus lie detector, and truthify is not considered vanilla, then the scum's second statement (in which they claim a power) will by necessity be false, unless perhaps they claim vigilante. This means they have 3 false statements to make, and likely only 2 truthifies. Thus, for example, if one person draws overwhelming suspicion, 3 could investigate them, and would be guaranteed to find a falsity, unless (possibly) they claim vigilante, which in itself would clearly be a big tip that they are scum. But the mod said that such a scum would be considered vanilla, which means that if such a scum exists, they have but 2 lies to truthify, and conveniently, they have two truthifies!
2. This is correct. If our non-lie detector related scum hunting is useful (eg. we suspect the scum more than the 1 in 4 chance we'd have by guessing at random), we can improve the odds somewhat.
3. You are making assumptions about the distribution of town power roles. And you're still wrong because that non-vanilla town power could, in many cases, be a power a scum might have (scum have had, in various games, just about every power a townie has, and certainly every power considered common). Which means you might "confirm" the scum!
4. I honestly believe your plan is likely to harm the town, regardless of who is the focus of investigations (since while the scales might be tipped in favor of town if we had an accurate idea of who scum is, I believe this is not the case. Obviously though, if I believe I will be lynched, either by majority or deadline, I intend to use my lie detector and report the results beforehand.
5. I find it rather obvious, and not at all bastardly, that a mod might include such a power. It's true that we are probably not at lylo (there is a slim chance of it though, eg. 3 town, 1 scum, 1 lyncher with a town target is lylo IFF a townie is lynch and killed). However, I do not find the defense "well even if it hurts the town, we probably don't lose right away" at all convincing. Because of course we can improve our chances of winning by foregoing the strategy that hurts the town.
Also, I believe you are wrong in saying that slbub's statements are not worth checking because they claimed vanilla. Saying "lets not bother checking vanilla" makes it obvious, if people took you at your word, that scum should claim vanilla if they lack the ability to distort the results of lie detectors beyond that which is publicly known. Which of course means that vanilla still has to be a valid target for checking.
@Angua: My "plan" is simple, don't do any plans that harm the town. In other words, if there isn't a good plan for using the lie detectors, and I don't believe there is, we should, you know, play Mafia, without relying on them as a crutch! If they're a useful tool, great, lets use them. And if they might be useful, lets figure out if they are! But if they're not useful, then acknowledging that is a good thing, because it lets us move to where we would be if we didn't have lie detectors at all, except with the added information gleaned from this discussion. And that's most likely an eminently reasonable (and winnable) position for the town to be in. Also, the scum knowing our abilities could easily improve their N2 strategy, either in choice of NK or in target for some additional power they have (e.g. roleblock).
For what it's worth, going along with my "plan", I am beginning to suspect Boomfrog. His actions are entirely consistent with that of a scum who has abilities such that his plan is either useless (in which case we waste time and effort on a fruitless path) or harmful to town, as long as he believes he can convince the town it's a good, or neutral, idea (at least to the degree such that we don't automatically suspect him if it doesn't turn out useful). Claiming it's not worth investigating the vanilla is also suspicious to me. It's, to me, quite obvious that such a path cannot be a good equilibrium course for the town. Which means he either made a serious analytic error, an easily seen-through attempt to trick a scum who shouldn't claim vanilla into doing so (so easily seen-through I don't consider it a problem to say this aloud), or is testing the waters for his own vanilla claim.
Nikc wrote:Silknor is the JJ Abrams of mafia modding