xkcd

by **BlackSails** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:30 am UTC

http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_ ... d=10623994

by **Spambot5546** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:25 am UTC

I'm confused. Several of those people died more than once in that fight. Did they bring extra ships in the carriers and lose them too?

by **Swivelguy** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:35 am UTC

That battlereport covers about 90 minutes total, with kills spread pretty evenly throughout that time. My guess is that Hatchery was camping a gate picking off 1 or 2 ships at a time until GOML finally dropped a carrier-supported fleet on them and forced them off.

by **halbarad** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:07 am UTC

Some nice kills there.

I'm working up a basic spreadsheet for T2 production and Eve-Central is down again so prices aren't updating. It's pretty annoying when trying to figure out if it's actually worth putting up a POS to do this.

by **BlackSails** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:21 pm UTC

Swivelguy wrote:That battlereport covers about 90 minutes total, with kills spread pretty evenly throughout that time. My guess is that Hatchery was camping a gate picking off 1 or 2 ships at a time until GOML finally dropped a carrier-supported fleet on them and forced them off.

We dont camp gates. Its boring, and its not really pvp.

We jumped into their gatecamp with PODLA, smashed them all (the carriers were on station assigning fighters). Since it was their system, they had a station there to quickly reship, and we killed several more of their fleets over the next 90 minutes or so. What finally forced us to leave was them undocking 6 logis which we did not have the dps to break.

Official BR is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... =774#15462

by **Swivelguy** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:06 pm UTC

That wasn't so hard was it? Infinitely better than posting just a KB link which lets me assume whatever I want happened.

by **Spambot5546** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:14 pm UTC

http://killboard.broforcegaming.com/?a= ... kll_id=913

I maintain, for the sake of my faith in humanity, that this fit was a joke, not something the pilot thought was actually a good idea.

by **halbarad** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:41 pm UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:http://killboard.broforcegaming.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=913

I maintain, for the sake of my faith in humanity, that this fit was a joke, not something the pilot thought was actually a good idea.

I've seen some really terrible fits, like tripple tanking abbadons with small rails and all sorts of other stuff. I'd assume he's just a terrible player.

by **BlackSails** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:37 pm UTC

http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_ ... id=9658080

Best fit ever. Take a close look at the lows btw.

by **halbarad** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:53 am UTC

Saw this on FHC:

Spoiler:

There is usually a lot of gossip and stuff going round about DRF and other NAP groups but this puts things in perspective (or at least it did for me).

Dark Souls Challenge · by **Mishrak** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:25 pm UTC

Lol, nice job on Test propaganda. =) Probably pretty accurate but still.

by **Spambot5546** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:17 pm UTC

I used to be in TEST, but I've never heard of DCF. Is this some new thing?

by **halbarad** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:39 pm UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:I used to be in TEST, but I've never heard of DCF. Is this some new thing?

it's basically DRF and Goons/Test being BFF. Which made the Drone Clusterfuck Federation or something.

Dark Souls Challenge · by **Mishrak** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:48 pm UTC

I think it's more propaganda though honestly. DRF aren't blue to Goons.

by **Spambot5546** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:57 pm UTC

Which goons? There's at least two of 'em and I know one is blue with TEST.

Dark Souls Challenge · by **Mishrak** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:55 pm UTC

Goons are blue to Test yes, but DRF is not. They just have a common enemy in AAA.

by **Spambot5546** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:42 pm UTC

So CCP issued a big apology for Incarna, as I'm sure some of you may have seen. They seem to be confirming that there will be no actual conferred benefits from microtransactions, just vanity items. That's good. Also, he hinted that spinning-in-stations might come back. Bitchin'.

Dark Souls Challenge · by **Mishrak** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:01 pm UTC

When they make roaming space fun again and change it so supercaps aren't an insta i-win button, maybe I'll come back. Otherwise bittervet signing in!

Would be nice to see an expac with some real content because Incarna and Incursion provided very little of that.

by **halbarad** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:24 pm UTC

Ship spinning is definitely back, it's on Sisi right now. Titans are a bit nerfed, can only DD caps.

That blog was nice but Zulus was much nicer, lots of fun things like AFs being fixed and Hyrbids balancing etc. Should be an interesting time ahead to see what they actually produce. I'm still playing but just dicking around in WHs which I still find fun.

by **BlackSails** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:04 am UTC

halbarad wrote:Ship spinning is definitely back, it's on Sisi right now. Titans are a bit nerfed, can only DD caps.

That blog was nice but Zulus was much nicer, lots of fun things like AFs being fixed and Hyrbids balancing etc. Should be an interesting time ahead to see what they actually produce. I'm still playing but just dicking around in WHs which I still find fun.

Was DDing non-caps even a real problem? I could see maybe using it on hictors, or for lulz on other ships, but i thought they were used pretty exclusively to alpha cap ships.

Also, eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/rankings.php?type=corp&recent=true

Hatchery is number 36.

by **Izawwlgood** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:33 am UTC

Yeah, not being able to DD a non-capital ship doesn't strike me as much of anything.

by **BlackSails** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:17 am UTC

Right after I post that , i get linked this killmail from tonights roam.

http://northern-coalition.co.uk/?a=kill ... l_id=88827

by **Swivelguy** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:54 am UTC

DDs are regularly used in large fleet fights to eliminate fleet boosters and logistics, after all the carriers and dreads are gone (which are mostly killed by fighter bombers and regular titan weapons, not DDs).

(Note that I have never seen a supercap, so this is just what I know from BRs and videos)

by **BlackSails** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:49 am UTC

Swivelguy wrote:DDs are regularly used in large fleet fights to eliminate fleet boosters and logistics, after all the carriers and dreads are gone (which are mostly killed by fighter bombers and regular titan weapons, not DDs).

(Note that I have never seen a supercap, so this is just what I know from BRs and videos)

People use on-grid fleet boosters in big fleet fights?

Dark Souls Challenge · by **Mishrak** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:04 pm UTC

Speaking from experience, as a long-standing (if inactive currently) nullsec pilot. I've been in some of the biggest supercap blobs EVE has ever seen, being blue to DRF for awhile:
DD's are used on Subcapital ships that are generally supertanked and otherwise impossible for a normal fleet to kill (Damnations especially) in any reasonable amount of time if logistics are on the field. They're also used to insta-kill the heaviest of heavy tackle in Hictors and faction fit T3's (Lokis and Proteuses). Of course 20 titans on the field means 20 dead guardians instantly as well, if the FC orders that.

Not being able to DD subcapital ships would dramatically boost subcapital fleet surviability. I mean, dropping 20 titans on a fleet of battleships still means they're going to own the battleships. Their guns are very powerful. But no longer will they totally be able to jack up a fight instantly with their DD's. However it makes Hictors VERY dangerous because they can't just wipe those off the field anymore.

by **Izawwlgood** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:42 pm UTC

Mishrak wrote: I mean, dropping 20 titans on a fleet of battleships still means they're going to own the battleships. Their guns are very powerful.

You're going to have to elaborate here; do you mean to say that people put capital weapons on titans, and shoot battleships with them? That seems A) Incredibly dumb, and B) Incredibly unlikely, given the difference in size.

Dark Souls Challenge · by **Mishrak** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:50 pm UTC

Yes people put guns on them. A set of guns, a cloak, a DD module and a bridge module (sometimes you can go without the bridge if you have a dedicated person to do it). A smartbomb is situational and neuts are a waste of time. Leave that for Supers and Subcaps. If you need a neut, you're screwed anyway. Don't even ask me about Drone Control Units.

If you activate your Doomsday, you cannot cloak or jump for 10 minutes. So if you're on the field after a DD, you've got nothing left to do but shoot. A properly fit titan (without damage mods and tracking enhancers - PROPERLY FIT), will still do the same amount of damage as a dread with it's guns.

Also keep in mind that when you're dropping 20 titans, you're probably also dropping 40+ supers and have a 200 man subcapital fleet to support them. So it's generally game over for the hostile entity. Supercap vs Supercap slugfests are very very rare.

by **Izawwlgood** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:10 pm UTC

That's ludicrous. Assuming all Lvl5s, a Titan fully fit for shooting Capital class weapons does good damage, but it's still shooting capital class weapons. They have a sig radius of 1,000. Anyone who brings a Titan on the field with 5-6 guns fitted deserves to lose that Titan. Also, a Dread in Siege mode does with 3 guns what a Titan at all level fives does with 5. So yes, that's a very odd fit, considering you miss out on a Jump Portal Generator and a DD. I get that you don't need every Titan fit with a clone bay and a JPG, but the order of magnitude higher cost compared to Dreads, in my opinion, would make a Titan an incredibly dumb thing to bring onto a grid if your intent is dishing out DPS.
But show me the fitting you're thinking of, or link me to a killmail of a Titan fitted with guns. Because unless you completely bastardize a Titan, I can't see any way to get functionality and gun use out of one.

Dark Souls Challenge · by **Mishrak** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:21 pm UTC

It's not ludicrous. It's how you properly fit a titan. What else would you put in the highs over guns? That's a serious question. Yes it's shooting capital class weapons, but common fleet doctrines is big fat abaddons and big fat geddons. You don't shoot Ahacs with the things. Even a non MWDing Abaddon has a bloated sig radius and will get chewed up by a Titan's guns. Here's an example of a DECENT fit. The only thing that's fail on this particular fit is the cap mod in the low, but it's not totally fail.. Otherwise the mids are correct and the complex lows are correct. Officer cap rechargers are sexy but totally unnecessary and usually just make for a lol expensive lossmail.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=10764788

[edit]

Also, seriously what else is this for?

Amarr Titan Skill Bonuses:
100% bonus to Capital Energy Turret damage per level

[double edit]
Oh yeah, a titan will 1 or 2 volley a battleship. So dead battleship every 12-15 seconds. That's coming from a friend who's a very experienced Titan pilot.

by **Swivelguy** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:46 pm UTC

Titans are better than dreads at killing battleships, as they don't have the tracking penalty of the siege module.

(not to mention that all the dreads died to fighter bombers in the first 30 seconds of their siege cycle)

by **Izawwlgood** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:53 pm UTC

I forgot that Titans have 8x highs, which certainly adds to their flexibility. The 100% bonus to damage from guns/missiles is, as I see it, something to put them marginally in line with Dreadnaughts. Given that Titans also provide a boost to the entire fleet, and can fit extra warfare link modules, my understanding is that they should be used as largely defensive ships, especially given that they can open jump portals.

The Titan you have posted can fire it's DD resulting in the death of one capital (obviously very useful) and then puts out 2577 dps with an EHP of 29.9m but no repping. The posted cost was 58bn. A comparatively tanked Revelation deals 3383 in siege, and has an EHP of 4.7m. I don't know what the complex mods cost, but considering Titans are probably ~40bn, I'm assuming the mods are about 18bn total? May be off there.

My point is that using a Titan with guns, like that, even fully faction fit, results in something that costs nearly 60bn and comes with 30m EHP, outputs less damage than a Dread, and can be torn apart by any moderately mobile fleet. I'm generally not a fan of singularly awesome ships in the face of even a decent run fleet.

And I wager carriers are better at killing battleships than Titans are.

Dark Souls Challenge · by **Mishrak** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:00 pm UTC

I just noticed that Titan I linked had beams and not pulses. LR guns is stupid, I'll admit that.

And I wager carriers are better at killing battleships than Titans are.

Not even remotely better, it's not even close. I just said a titan can 1-2 volley a battleship with it's guns. That's a fact. Carriers can't do that.

My point is that using a Titan with guns, like that, even fully faction fit, results in something that costs nearly 60bn and comes with 30m EHP, outputs less damage than a Dread, and can be torn apart by any moderately mobile fleet. I'm generally not a fan of singularly awesome ships in the face of even a decent run fleet.

This tells me you have probably no experience whatsoever with capital ships on the field, either on the receiving end or using them. Do you even have any nullsec experience beyond a 5 man roaming gang? Have you ever even been in a large supercarrier battle with 40+ titans and 100+ supercarriers on the field? I have. Many times. Stop EFT warrioring thinking you know what you're talking about.

by **Izawwlgood** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:14 pm UTC

Mishrak wrote:I just noticed that Titan I linked had beams and not pulses. LR guns is stupid, I'll admit that.

Er, why? The pulses give it a range of 'not going to hit anything that's not humping you'.

Mishrak wrote:Not even remotely better, it's not even close. I just said a titan can 1-2 volley a battleship with it's guns. That's a fact. Carriers can't do that.

Looking at the damage output a Titan posts, I'm surprised that you claim it's 1-2 volleys. The Titan you posted, without the DD only does 2577 dps with a volley of 25k. I'm not seeing how that translates to 1-2 volley BS poppage.

Mishrak wrote:This tells me you have probably no experience whatsoever with capital ships on the field, either on the receiving end or using them.

Generally not in PvP, but if you recall, about a year ago, I was running C6 wormholes with a group of 20 or so, using capitals and T3s. So, no, I haven't been in your superblobs. I was in maybe a dozen capital fights, but no super caps were involved.

Dark Souls Challenge · by **Mishrak** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:24 pm UTC

Last post by me on this issue because using capitals in a wormhole means you have no experience in nullsec with them and I'm wasting my time discussing it with you. My killmail linked was done in a hurried manner and was a bad example.

When you hotdrop titans, you do it at their optimal range. Close range guns (esp Erebus and Rag) have a very nice alpha. Pulses don't quite have the alpha but still do a lot of DPS. That's why they're better than long range guns. LR titan is stupid. Anyway. Next topic.

by **Izawwlgood** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:36 pm UTC

If you're going to be a dick and bow out of the conversation because I haven't participated in blob fests, fine, but at least address this question:

Izawwlgood wrote:Looking at the damage output a Titan posts, I'm surprised that you claim it's 1-2 volleys. The Titan you posted, without the DD only does 2577 dps with a volley of 25k. I'm not seeing how that translates to 1-2 volley BS poppage.

Explain how something that does 2577 dps with a volley of 25k instapops BSs. Unless you are completely ignoring the presence of defensive modules, I'd place most BSs at around 80-100+k EHP. If they aren't MWDing, assume a sig radius of ~ or <400, and you're looking at, what I would imagine to be, around 6-10 volleys from a Titan, not 1-2. Are you assuming every BS is webbed and pointed?
Also, with pulse lasers, the Avatar does 36k alpha with 4282 dps, which is getting closer to the 1-2 volley range, but still looking like 3-6.

Dark Souls Challenge · by **Mishrak** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:44 pm UTC

Since you're obviously an EFT guru and know everything there is about titans, figure it out yourself.

by **Izawwlgood** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:48 pm UTC

Now I remember why I ignored most of what you had to say in this thread when I was still posting here!
I'm asking a simple question, and I'm presenting you with reasons why I'm skeptical of your claim. If your response is to get bitchy and bow out, then fine, peace out homey.

Dark Souls Challenge · by **Mishrak** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:55 pm UTC

You're the one slinging personal insults here, not me. I don't see how that motivates me to explain my point to you.

And honestly, you'll just ignore it anyway, so what's the point?

by **Spambot5546** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:59 pm UTC

I did some math using notepad, the eve item database, and my memory of what skills contribute to turret damage, and I came up with a volley damage of 6,679.2 per turret on an Avatar using Dual Giga Pulses and Blood multifreqs. That gives it a volley damage of 33,396, assuming five turrets. I'm ignoring loss of damage due to sig radius/tracking/etc. I can't imagine the actual volley damage could be much over 25k. Do a lot of battleships have less than 50k ehp? Or are we counting on wrecking shots?

Edit: After mishrak's post I double checked my math. Looks like I fatfingered a five where I should've hit six. So 6679.2 should be 8015.14 and 33396 should be 40075.2. Using the below fit, with an extra turret, you get an extra 8k volley, hence his 48k figure.

Dark Souls Challenge · by **Mishrak** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:08 pm UTC

A properly fit Avatar has 48k volley. Assuming Titan 5 and the associated gun skills being proper. (If you're flying a Titan without the right skills you're stupid)

[Avatar, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Centus X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Centus X-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Centus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Centus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Energized Regenerative Membrane II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tuvan's Modified Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution

Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Multifrequency XL
Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Multifrequency XL
Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Multifrequency XL
Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Multifrequency XL
Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Multifrequency XL
Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Multifrequency XL
Judgement
Thon's Modified Cloaking Device

Large Trimark Armor Pump II
Large Trimark Armor Pump II
Large Trimark Armor Pump II

54mill ehp w/o any bonus (but w/ HG slaves)
7.5k dps with hardwirings
26 +/- 13km range with 8 sec duration

A properly fit Erebus has 60k volley.

48k volley every 8 seconds. So 32 seconds = 192,000 damage. That's the heaviest tanked battleships right there. Anything less will die faster. An MWDing battleship is screwed. Also don't forget that EHP is an estimate. It factors in resists and isn't always that accurate. The reality is things die taking much less damage than EFT says they should be able to tank.

1 shot: http://84.234.197.151/rakb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=104540
2 shots: http://84.234.197.151/rakb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=104539

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