0964: "Dorm Poster"

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SirMustapha
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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby SirMustapha » Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:35 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:
SirMustapha wrote:That I understand. But as I addressed in my first post, the problem with that is Randall's "appendage" is part of the original artwork.
Do you really think the majority of people who would recognize the album cover know what the back of it looks like?


Dark Side of the Moon is a hugely popular album; it's quite preposterous, if not arrogant, to assume that your reader base is completely ignorant about it or just doesn't care. For me, it's a severe research failure on Randall's part, and the hypothesis that Randall knew about his mistake and didn't care is even worse.

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doing it w/o lenses

Postby elenzil » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:51 pm UTC

the original beam can be reconstructed without the use of lenses, with some caveats.
not shown in the Pink Floyd poster is a secondary rainbow exiting the prism after reflecting internally from the spot where the primary rainbow exits. this secondary beam however is parallel rather than expanding. ie, it's a straight rainbow rather than an expanding rainbow. this straight rainbow can strike a second prism in a variety of configurations which reverse the process and emit a single, narrow beam of white light again, parallel (or not) to the original white ray.
i've simulated this setup using an app i wrote, and an image of the simulation is here: http://www.appliedthaumaturgics.com/prism/images/beam_reconstruction.png

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby CZeke » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:30 pm UTC

Elenzil: Incredible! That's the one I'd put on my wall.

SecondTalon wrote:It's SirMustapha's thing. It's why we keep him around.


Maybe so, but he's right about this one. I had the same reaction, wondering how Randall managed not to know about the back cover. Sure, it's always bugged me that light doesn't "defract" that way without a lens, but if that were part of the joke, it would've been made obvious that the roommate had added the lens to an existing poster.

Also, the bit about CD stores is awfully smug. Not everyone just downloads music (with or without paying), nor is doing so mutually exclusive with buying discs. I for one don't feel like I really own an album if it's not in physical form. It's much more satisfying to have a big CD collection than to have N gigs of mp3s, and the sound quality's a lot better.

In short, okay strip for physics fans, lousy strip for music fans.
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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby harryjohnston » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:41 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:Dark Side of the Moon is a hugely popular album; [...]

(Thirty-eight years ago ...)
For me, it's a severe research failure on Randall's part, [...]

I've got to wonder how much research you think a single comic strip justifies. I mean, come on, not every strip has to be funny to everyone. The fact that it falls flat to Pink Floyd fanatics doesn't mean it wasn't worth doing; the rest of us liked it.

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby Aiea » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:51 pm UTC

harryjohnston wrote:
SirMustapha wrote:Dark Side of the Moon is a hugely popular album; [...]

(Thirty-eight years ago ...)


I was just dealing with magazines the other day, and my memory is crap so i don't remember which one, but it was a music magazine, and I was quite amused when one of them had that image on it.

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby SirMustapha » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:58 pm UTC

harryjohnston wrote:
SirMustapha wrote:Dark Side of the Moon is a hugely popular album; [...]

(Thirty-eight years ago ...)


You're NOT suggesting that an album can't possibly be popular just because it's old, right? Say, let's see how many views Time has on YouTube -- oh! Only 21 million. You're right: nobody listens to old music.

harryjohnston wrote:
For me, it's a severe research failure on Randall's part, [...]

I've got to wonder how much research you think a single comic strip justifies.


A strip from an inoffensive throwaway only-for-the-lulz comic? Not much. A strip from most-genius-webcomic-ever I'm-a-geek-and-proud-of-it it-bugs-me-when-people-don't-know-science 1080p-HDTV-is-lame-and-everyone-who-is-impressed-by-it-is-dumb I-used-to-work-at-NASA motherfuckin' genius XKCD? At least a little.

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby harryjohnston » Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:32 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:You're NOT suggesting that an album can't possibly be popular just because it's old, right?

Popular, sure. Common knowledge, less likely. I'm just saying that DSOTM fans are probably in a minority here - a large minority, quite possibly, but still a minority. (I'd never heard of it, and wouldn't have even known the comic had anything to do with Pink Floyd if it weren't for the alt text mentioning them.)
Say, let's see how many views Time has on YouTube [...]

For the record, there's a distinction between the popularity of an album and the popularity of the songs on it. Lots of people like particular songs without even knowing what albums they were on.
A strip from an inoffensive throwaway only-for-the-lulz comic? Not much. A strip from most-genius-webcomic-ever I'm-a-geek-and-proud-of-it it-bugs-me-when-people-don't-know-science 1080p-HDTV-is-lame-and-everyone-who-is-impressed-by-it-is-dumb I-used-to-work-at-NASA motherfuckin' genius XKCD? At least a little.

O ... kay. You're taking it all a bit too seriously, IMO. Never mind; different strokes, funny-old-world-if-we-were-all-the-same, etc., etc., and I'll leave you be now so you can fume in peace.

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby Jorpho » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:41 am UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
Jorpho wrote:
SirMustapha wrote:That I understand. But as I addressed in my first post, the problem with that is Randall's "appendage" is part of the original artwork.
Do you really think the majority of people who would recognize the album cover know what the back of it looks like?
Dark Side of the Moon is a hugely popular album; it's quite preposterous, if not arrogant, to assume that your reader base is completely ignorant about it or just doesn't care.
Well, one can be less than completely ignorant of the album and still not be familiar with the entirety of the original artwork. And besides, I would propose that even one familiar with the original artwork would think it merely some geometrical transformation of the original, and not an actual optical phenomenon, since indeed without the lens in there it's definitely not remotely feasible to get the white light back.

But maybe that's just me. Whatever.

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby Turing Machine » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:14 am UTC

DSotM is the third best selling album of all time.

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby SirMustapha » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:34 pm UTC

harryjohnston wrote:
A strip from an inoffensive throwaway only-for-the-lulz comic? Not much. A strip from most-genius-webcomic-ever I'm-a-geek-and-proud-of-it it-bugs-me-when-people-don't-know-science 1080p-HDTV-is-lame-and-everyone-who-is-impressed-by-it-is-dumb I-used-to-work-at-NASA motherfuckin' genius XKCD? At least a little.

O ... kay. You're taking it all a bit too seriously, IMO.


Dude, taking things too seriously is basically the life of this whole forum. And I don't mean only the endless discussions regarding the correct spelling of "alluminum" or "alluminium", but also when Randall makes a comic that's rudely derogatory to something or someone (e.g. audiophiles) and the fans all pile up going "this comic is SO right! I hate that as well!", as if Randall's word as the Gospel or something. When people tell me that "it's just a comic, it's just comedy!", I always remember that a lot of fans do not think that way.

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby Adam H » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:17 pm UTC

harryjohnston wrote:Popular, sure. Common knowledge, less likely. I'm just saying that DSOTM fans are probably in a minority here - a large minority, quite possibly, but still a minority. (I'd never heard of it, and wouldn't have even known the comic had anything to do with Pink Floyd if it weren't for the alt text mentioning them.)
Wow. I hate it when people make fun of me for not knowing cultural references, but I'm going to go ahead and be a hypocrite.

WHAT THE WHAAAAA?!?! You've never HEARD of Dark Side of the Moon? [hyperbole]It is without a doubt the MOST recognizable album in the entire world (at least for the album art)[/hyperbole]. I'm surprised you've even heard of Pink Floyd, if you've never heard of DSOTM!

Typically the conversation goes, "Bing Lloyd? Who's that?" "No no no, Pink Floyd - they are the band with the prism and the light and the rainbow thingie." "Oh yeah sure I know that cd."


Also, I for one am glad that Randall does not give a rats ass about what SirMustapha thinks.
-Adam

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby harryjohnston » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:50 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:WHAT THE WHAAAAA?!?! You've never HEARD of Dark Side of the Moon?

Straight up.

I know the name of a few albums (mainly ones that I own and am particularly fond of) but while I of course know the Beetles (for example) well enough to recognize most of their songs, and perhaps even remember the names, I couldn't name a single album of theirs. I guess I just don't think of songs as being inherent parts of an album, but as independent works which just happen to be sold in groups.

Typically the conversation goes, "Bing Lloyd? Who's that?" "No no no, Pink Floyd - they are the band with the prism and the light and the rainbow thingie." "Oh yeah sure I know that cd."

Hmmm ... perhaps it's a US thing. I don't see what's so great about the artwork, to be honest: it's light and a prism. So what?

In fact, having now seen the complete foldout, I gotta say: it's ugly. It just looks ... wrong. Of course, lots of artistically important work is ugly. But I'm not surprised that only the first part (from what I've read here) makes it onto the posters. That part is at least kind of pretty.

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby adho » Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:02 am UTC

harryjohnston wrote:I guess I just don't think of songs as being inherent parts of an album, but as independent works which just happen to be sold in groups.


Albums like Dark Side of the Moon are so much more than the sum of their parts. A lot of bands of that era, and indeed up into the present day, design their albums to work as an entirety, with the songs clicking into one another. To me, there's nothing better than having the time to listen to a half hour album from the start to the finish. Try it sometime, singles are boring.

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby Turing Machine » Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:53 am UTC

DSotM is a concept album. The songs are very much part of a coherent whole.

It is bizarre to see people waving around their ignorance as if it's something to be proud of. "Dark Side of the Moon, eh? What an ugly album cover. And who are these guys, anyway?"

Look we'll leave you in peace with your Justin Bieber singles and MS Paint artwork if you'll leave us alone with Pink Floyd. Fair trade?

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby Anaphase » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:57 pm UTC

harryjohnston wrote:But I'm not surprised that only the first part (from what I've read here) makes it onto the posters. That part is at least kind of pretty.

I rather like both.

Original LP, front and back covers:

Image




1983 Japan CD release, front and back covers:

Image



I have to agree that this comic turned out to be something of an outside joke.
Last edited by Anaphase on Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:21 pm UTC, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby Aiea » Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:15 pm UTC

Aiea wrote:
harryjohnston wrote:
SirMustapha wrote:Dark Side of the Moon is a hugely popular album; [...]

(Thirty-eight years ago ...)


I was just dealing with magazines the other day, and my memory is crap so i don't remember which one, but it was a music magazine, and I was quite amused when one of them had that image on it.


Ahha, I just looked it up, it was Rolling Stones issue 1141, October? (maybe september) 2011 issue.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... s-20110928

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby wellingtonsteve » Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:28 pm UTC

Anaphase wrote:I have to agree that this comic turned out to be something of an outside joke.


Aarrgh.. goodbye productivity..

Spoiler:
:wink:

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby harryjohnston » Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:49 pm UTC

adho wrote:
harryjohnston wrote:I guess I just don't think of songs as being inherent parts of an album, but as independent works which just happen to be sold in groups.


Albums like Dark Side of the Moon are so much more than the sum of their parts. A lot of bands of that era, and indeed up into the present day, design their albums to work as an entirety, with the songs clicking into one another. To me, there's nothing better than having the time to listen to a half hour album from the start to the finish. Try it sometime, singles are boring.


Well, obviously I'm used to listening to albums as albums; how else would one do it? (Oh, yeah, shuffle mode. I'm very much a child of the LP, I don't really see the point of the newfangled features CD players have.)

Alan Parsons would, I suppose, be a good example of what you're talking about, and I suppose I tend to think of those albums more as integral works. But, obviously, that only works because I own them; if I've only heard the individual songs, either on radio or TV, I'm not likely to associate them with any particular album because, well, how would I know?

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby harryjohnston » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:06 pm UTC

Turing Machine wrote:It is bizarre to see people waving around their ignorance as if it's something to be proud of. "Dark Side of the Moon, eh? What an ugly album cover. And who are these guys, anyway?"

Hey, I was just answering Adam's (implied) question. (And if you were following the conversation, you'd have noticed that the whole point was that I knew who Pink Floyd were but not what DSOTM was.) I know some people hate to admit to not knowing absolutely everything, but I guess I'm just that honest.

On the other hand, this conversation is now starting to remind me a little of Connoisseur.

Look we'll leave you in peace with your Justin Bieber singles [...]

Who? (Oh, yes, OK, to be honest I have heard of him: teenage target audience, right? I'm not familiar with his work, though; I don't listen to the radio all that much.)

and MS Paint artwork if you'll leave us alone with Pink Floyd. Fair trade?

I'll leave you alone with Pink Floyd if you'll leave me along with xkcd, how about that? :twisted:

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby Turing Machine » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:12 pm UTC

You can have your pseud webcomic.

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby CZeke » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:01 pm UTC

Oh, is that how "xkcd" is pronounced? I always wondered.

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby harryjohnston » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:44 pm UTC

Anaphase wrote:
harryjohnston wrote:But I'm not surprised that only the first part (from what I've read here) makes it onto the posters. That part is at least kind of pretty.

I rather like both.

I have to agree that this comic turned out to be something of an outside joke.

Ha, good point.

By much the same token you could call the back cover outside art; if you're not familiar with how glass bends light, it looks great, if you are, it grates on your nerves like fingernails on a blackboard. (Or perhaps its just me.)

I just remembered what made Pink Floyd famous over here, by the way: The Wall. Far more iconic than DSOTM, at least for my generation.

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby SirMustapha » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:10 pm UTC

harryjohnston wrote:By much the same token you could call the back cover outside art; if you're not familiar with how glass bends light, it looks great, if you are, it grates on your nerves like fingernails on a blackboard. (Or perhaps its just me.)


I think it's sort of silly to expect scientific correctness from a piece of art that is supposed to be purely symbolic. I understand being pissed off by the absurd inaccuracies of films like Armageddon, The Core, The Day After Tomorrow, etc., but many pieces of art simply do not care about being "accurate". It would be pretty grating if the original cover did have those silly looking "lens", though!

harryjohnston wrote:I just remembered what made Pink Floyd famous over here, by the way: The Wall. Far more iconic than DSOTM, at least for my generation.


You know, it does surprise me that Dark Side of the Moon is their best selling album, because The Wall seems a lot bigger and more iconic indeed. Maybe that was just in the US, or maybe it's because Roger Waters watered it down with endless live albums and whatnot.

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby harryjohnston » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:44 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
harryjohnston wrote:By much the same token you could call the back cover outside art; if you're not familiar with how glass bends light, it looks great, if you are, it grates on your nerves like fingernails on a blackboard. (Or perhaps its just me.)

I think it's sort of silly to expect scientific correctness from a piece of art that is supposed to be purely symbolic. I understand being pissed off by the absurd inaccuracies of films like Armageddon, The Core, The Day After Tomorrow, etc., but many pieces of art simply do not care about being "accurate". It would be pretty grating if the original cover did have those silly looking "lens", though!

I don't expect scientific accuracy, but I want things to at least look right. The films you mention don't bother me; they may not make much logical sense, but they never looked wrong. (Then again, I'm not an engineer. Oh, and I've never seen The Core, though I did catch the other two.)

I think this is perhaps a sort of uncanny valley effect. That cover is too realistic to look like a purely abstract, geometric work or like some form of surrealism, but just wrong enough to look ... well ... wrong. (Your milage may vary, and obviously does!) :-)

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby antoinelepenseur » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:26 pm UTC

After seeing some attempts; I decided to take a whack at it with Photoshop. What do you think?
Image

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:55 pm UTC

Colors should begin splitting within the prisms, and the rainbow section doesn't converge or diverge enough to work with a lens of that shape.

3/10
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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby CZeke » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:31 pm UTC

Mmhmm, mmhmm... and how would you rate it if this weren't a final exam?
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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby Anaphase » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:44 pm UTC

antoinelepenseur wrote:What do you think?

Make the lens a bit thinner, and it could work as a CD cover, with the lens positioned over the spine...

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby nehpest » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:28 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Colors should begin splitting within the prisms, and the rainbow section doesn't converge or diverge enough to work with a lens of that shape.

3/10

tl;dr: you fail optics forever.
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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby SirMustapha » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:45 pm UTC

Anaphase wrote:
antoinelepenseur wrote:What do you think?

Make the lens a bit thinner, and it could work as a CD cover, with the lens positioned over the spine...


That is, just like the goddamn original artwork... that is, only with a stupid looking lens included?

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby Anaphase » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:24 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
Anaphase wrote:
antoinelepenseur wrote:What do you think?
Make the lens a bit thinner, and it could work as a CD cover, with the lens positioned over the spine...
That is, just like the goddamn original artwork... that is, only with a stupid looking lens included?
I assumed antoinelepenseur knew that and was trying to appeal to the harryjohnsons of the world...though I now feel rather silly for not noticing that the spine would be on the wrong side. Maybe in Israel or the Arab world?

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby antoinelepenseur » Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:43 pm UTC

Anaphase wrote:
SirMustapha wrote:
Anaphase wrote:
antoinelepenseur wrote:What do you think?
Make the lens a bit thinner, and it could work as a CD cover, with the lens positioned over the spine...
That is, just like the goddamn original artwork... that is, only with a stupid looking lens included?
I assumed antoinelepenseur knew that and was trying to appeal to the harryjohnsons of the world...though I now feel rather silly for not noticing that the spine would be on the wrong side. Maybe in Israel or the Arab world?

meh, a simple horizontal invert will do the trick.

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby antoinelepenseur » Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:45 pm UTC

Anaphase wrote:
antoinelepenseur wrote:What do you think?

Make the lens a bit thinner, and it could work as a CD cover, with the lens positioned over the spine...

Haha, I actually spent a long time debating myself on the size of the lens. I was never quite satisfied.

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby yaPete » Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:58 pm UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:
Treating adult students at one of the world's most prestigious universities like fifth-form schoolkids seems very odd to me :)

Well, they're treating them like lodgers. I mean, people room together in flats for economic reasons, and have done for longer than college dorms have existed in the present form.


Sure, I'm living in a shared house now; I've never had a house or flat all to myself, ever. But I don't have to share a bedroom - the only people who do that round here are immigrant Polish builders in illegal HMOs.

Copper Bezel wrote:But there's a "community" thing to it, too, since college students generally move away from home to go to school and don't have a lot of contacts in the new environment.


Sure, so share a house or flat or "corridor" (in an old-fashioned hall) or "stairwell" (in a *very* old-fashioned one). But not a bedroom.

Pete

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Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby Belgand » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:52 am UTC

harryjohnston wrote:Every time I see a US college dorm on TV I wonder whether people really still share rooms over there. I guess now I have an excuse to ask. (The hall of residence I stayed at as an undergrad did have a few shared rooms, but that was very much the exception rather than the rule.)


Eh, I had my roommate move out between semesters of my freshman year without properly telling anyone he was leaving. As a result by the time I actually notified them and things got sorted out they ended up just letting me keep the room as a single for the rest of the year. My school also had a policy that anyone who had a single room the previous year was grandfathered into the top of the list to get one the next year, as long as they didn't move to a new dorm. This resulted in me getting a single room for the next three years (and for the last two of those I moved up to a single suite), but I had to live in what was one of the worst dorms on campus (filthy, never renovated while all the other dorms were renovated in the same period, sometimes twice; all-male, and with so many file servers for porn and piracy that our bandwidth was a trickle almost as bad as dial-up). The only reason I actually moved out was because they ran out of space and required everyone to have a roommate and if you wanted a suite you couldn't get a random one (and I no longer had any male friends on campus) so I picked the much better option: for slightly less than we were both paying my girlfriend and I moved in together off-campus where we found a place with enough space for us to each have our own rooms (not as weird as it sounds when you want you own space to study or get some sleep before an early class).

Back on topic this poster already exists. While everyone else points out that it was already the front and back covers it was also a poster (without the lens, just the full gatefold illustration). I'm not having any luck finding a copy floating around, but just a few days ago I noticed it was in Dazed and Confused on the wall of Pickford's room early in the film. So it's been out there as a poster for at least 18 years if not much longer.

harryjohnston wrote:
Adam H wrote:WHAT THE WHAAAAA?!?! You've never HEARD of Dark Side of the Moon?

Straight up.

I know the name of a few albums (mainly ones that I own and am particularly fond of) but while I of course know the Beetles (for example) well enough to recognize most of their songs, and perhaps even remember the names, I couldn't name a single album of theirs. I guess I just don't think of songs as being inherent parts of an album, but as independent works which just happen to be sold in groups.


I'm sorry, but you fail culture.

For one thing the very name "album" implies a degree of curation and the intent that the songs be considered as parts of a whole. Really the place to look here is the Beatles who most strongly moved pop/rock music from being primarily a business of singles into being concerned with the production of albums. Yes, other genres had done this previously, but they really changed the game and made that the standard for the majority of the music industry. In particular look at their earlier work which really was more along the lines of "a group of songs". For a while there was even the transitional period where many established bands (the release of singles and EPs has still remained popular for up-and-coming artists) would still release singles that weren't on albums, not just remixes or rarities aimed at fans and collectors, but popular songs that have achieved widespread notability.

Not being familiar in even a vague way with "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band" or "Abby Road" implies an almost willful attempt at cultural ignorance. I can accept not knowing every song on an album or even which album a well-liked song you've only ever heard on radio or such and don't own comes from, but some of these albums are so widely known, referenced, parodied, and acknowledged as being of notability to popular culture of the past 50 years that's there's simply no way around it.

I'm not even one of those rabid fans of the Beatles (they're good and historically important for many of their innovations, but wildly overrated because of said importance and not one of my favorites), they're simply that notable and the example you yourself used.

I'm almost worried to comment because this seems to be going so far that it raises a lot of troll warnings.

harryjohnston
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 1:14 am UTC

Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

Postby harryjohnston » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:41 am UTC

Belgand wrote:
harryjohnston wrote:
Adam H wrote:WHAT THE WHAAAAA?!?! You've never HEARD of Dark Side of the Moon?

Straight up.

I'm sorry, but you fail culture.

Apparently I do. My wife was able to identify both "Abbey Road" and "Dark Side of the Moon" without any context, so I guess it's just me.

I'm lousy at trivial pursuit, too, so at least I'm consistently ignorant.


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