[S] All The King's Men - Loyalists win!

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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D2 That was easy...

Postby Silknor » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:32 pm UTC

Mav: Why are you still bringing up the "If you lynch me, town will lose" thing? Weiyaoli already said if a scum who has truthified "I am town" says that when there are 3 left, it'll come up as true, same as if a townie said it in that position. It's useless.

If you're looking for something to lie detect, we have my statement and the statements from Boom's plan.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D2 That was easy...

Postby Silknor » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:33 pm UTC

EBWOP: Something for someone else to lie detect that should say, since you used yours already.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D2 That was easy...

Postby Mavketl » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:57 pm UTC

[Deity] allmighty I fucking fail at reading modresponses correctly this game. Ignore everything I ever said about that, please.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D2 That was easy...

Postby Silknor » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:26 pm UTC

New statement time!

Same deal as last time, I'm asking everyone to either post these, explain why they will come up as false despite being a townie, or offer a good reason why posting these statements would be bad for the town.

As of the time of this post, the only ability I have used that alters or reverses the truth value of any statement, or set of statements, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's, is the inherent truthify, outlined in the Mod's OP, which was granted to all players, and I have used this ability, or the same ability granted through another means, exactly once.

As of the time of this post, I have not used any ability that alters or reverses the truth value of Statement X, or any subset thereof, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's, where Statement X is, without quotations: "As of the time of this post, I have not used an ability, including but not limited to the truthify each player begins with and the truthify that the mod granted to a scum due to the modkill, that alters or reverses the truth value of any statement, or set of statements, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's."

As of the time of this post, the only statement I have truthified, or used any other ability which alters or reverses the truth value of any statement, or set of statements, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's, is, without quotes, "The sum of all prime numbers is 42."

You should fill in your nonsense statement from earlier in place of mine.

Now of course, let us not make the same mistake Angua did and assume that any false result means they are scum. As I have maintained all game, it is possible that the scum have some ability to interfere with our ability to use the lie detector beyond that which is publicly known. Angua might rightly object it is unlikely that a falsify ability be used on that specific statement of Boomfrog's when there were statements more likely to be checked, but if there is such an ability, it could easily be one that target and impairs any statement that target player lie detects or that any statement of target played that someone else lie detects.

Still, it should be a warning flag for someone to fail, without reason, one of these tests (even after accounting for the fact that the reporter might be scum).

None of these should be covered by a golding of "I am town" because they only concern the actual use of the truthifies. Since a scum need not have truthified more than once, or have truthified my Statement X, they are not substantially identical statements, only ones that are likely, but not guaranteed, to be useful, because it is likely but not guaranteed the scum will fail one or both of them by this point in the game.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D2 That was easy...

Postby Mavketl » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:33 pm UTC

As of the time of this post, the only ability I have used that alters or reverses the truth value of any statement, or set of statements, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's, is the inherent truthify, outlined in the Mod's OP, which was granted to all players, and I have used this ability, or the same ability granted through another means, exactly once.

As of the time of this post, I have not used any ability that alters or reverses the truth value of Statement X, or any subset thereof, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's, where Statement X is, without quotations: "As of the time of this post, I have not used an ability, including but not limited to the truthify each player begins with and the truthify that the mod granted to a scum due to the modkill, that alters or reverses the truth value of any statement, or set of statements, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's."

As of the time of this post, the only statement I have truthified, or used any other ability which alters or reverses the truth value of any statement, or set of statements, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's, is, without quotes, "clouds are made of lead."
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D2 That was easy...

Postby Angua » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:35 pm UTC

As of the time of this post, the only ability I have used that alters or reverses the truth value of any statement, or set of statements, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's, is the inherent truthify, outlined in the Mod's OP, which was granted to all players, and I have used this ability, or the same ability granted through another means, exactly once.

As of the time of this post, I have not used any ability that alters or reverses the truth value of Statement X, or any subset thereof, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's, where Statement X is, without quotations: "As of the time of this post, I have not used an ability, including but not limited to the truthify each player begins with and the truthify that the mod granted to a scum due to the modkill, that alters or reverses the truth value of any statement, or set of statements, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's."

As of the time of this post, the only statement I have truthified, or used any other ability which alters or reverses the truth value of any statement, or set of statements, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's, is, without quotes, "All manatees are rainbow coloured."
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D2 That was easy...

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:36 am UTC

As of the time of this post, the only ability I have used that alters or reverses the truth value of any statement, or set of statements, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's, is the inherent truthify, outlined in the Mod's OP, which was granted to all players, and I have used this ability, or the same ability granted through another means, exactly once.

As of the time of this post, I have not used any ability that alters or reverses the truth value of Statement X, or any subset thereof, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's, where Statement X is, without quotations: "As of the time of this post, I have not used an ability, including but not limited to the truthify each player begins with and the truthify that the mod granted to a scum due to the modkill, that alters or reverses the truth value of any statement, or set of statements, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's."

As of the time of this post, the only statement I have truthified, or used any other ability which alters or reverses the truth value of any statement, or set of statements, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's, is, without quotes, "All Elephants are green."

@Silknor: I thought that you were against breaking the game on principle? Why the change of heart?

@Angua: I have a theory but it's not useful to discuss it until D3.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D2 That was easy...

Postby Silknor » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:58 am UTC

I place a much lower value on the lie detectors than you do, as I've explained previously. I'm more interested in gaining information from the way people react to well-formulated questions than in trusting the results we get from them (I feel free to say this as it's both probably fairly obvious and I want to encourage again no one to take the lie detector results without a grain of salt, or a shaker full of it). Also I know that, unless townies have been lying, we have at most 2 lie detectors remaining. Those aren't very good odds for finding the non-truthified false statements. In an open setup with no abilities beyond what we know exists, and on day 1, sure, I might have been able to screw the scum over, or break the game as it may be, with this set of questions. But that does not appear to be the case here.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D2 That was easy...

Postby weiyaoli » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:18 pm UTC

Sorry I was late for the day ending.

After much debate, the council decided to postpone their decision for king another day. One particular member though was not so fortunate, slbub was seized by a mob as they exited the palace and lynched. His body lost within the crowd, Maybe it will be calmer the next day and you will be able to find out more about slbub.

N2 begins. It will end in 3 days from now (So Saturday) or earlier if all of the actions are in quickly and I find the time to open up day.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D3 Death of an investigator

Postby weiyaoli » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:38 pm UTC

The next day, reports of slbub filtered through to the (now depleted) council.

Slbub was Jacob Webster, a Loyalist

One of the council did not return. Search parties found the body of Angua, smothered in their sleep.

Angua was Dean Quincy, a Loyalist Cop, that could investigate someone each night and receive either Revolutionary or Loyalist (or unknown if independent).

D3 begins now. 3 alive, 2 to lynch. It is LYLO. There shouldn't be any need to set a deadline so no deadline yet.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D3 Death of an investigator

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:16 am UTC

Well either Silknor is a godfather and redirector and lie detect manipulator or Mav is a very good player. I find the latter much more likely.

I used up my detect truth on Webby D1 anyway.

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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D3 Death of an investigator

Postby Mavketl » Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:55 am UTC

Retroactively claiming that you've already used up your lie detector a long time ago... that's like even more convenient than me using it stupidly but owning up to it. (Note: don't confuse "that's a convenient claim for scum" with "that would be a bad decision for town".)

I think it's clear that I would've voted for BoomFrog yesterday if it weren't for the no-lynch numbers, and honestly... that post convinced me even more. If you're town, why would you not at least await Silknor's lie detector claim (there is no reason for him to not use it now and tell us) before making up your mind? You must be aware that that vote you just posted ends the game (the wrong way) if Silknor is scum.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D3 Death of an investigator

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:43 pm UTC

I think its safe to say that the Mods did not give one scum player three powers. Silknor is confirmed town at this point. The game is in his hands.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D3 Death of an investigator

Postby Silknor » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:57 pm UTC

Boom: Why did you not mention having used your lie detector earlier?

Time for me to use my lie detector at long last.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D3 Death of an investigator

Postby Silknor » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:20 pm UTC

I investigated Boom saying:
As of the time of this post, the only ability I have used that alters or reverses the truth value of any statement, or set of statements, or ensures it will be considered true or false, be it mine or another's, is the inherent truthify, outlined in the Mod's OP, which was granted to all players, and I have used this ability, or the same ability granted through another means, exactly once.


I got back true.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D3 Death of an investigator

Postby Mavketl » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:17 pm UTC

Meh, fine. Either way, Angua's lie detector result from yesterday should be enough to settle this game.

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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D3 Death of an investigator

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:31 pm UTC

Silknor wrote:Boom: Why did you not mention having used your lie detector earlier?

Time for me to use my lie detector at long last.

I didn't see the benifit of claiming, it only would give scum more information without helping town.

Mavketl wrote:Retroactively claiming that you've already used up your lie detector a long time ago...
Thinking about this more, I don't get you logic (again). Scum could safly claim anything at this point. If I was scum I could say I used my detect on you and got a false or my detect on silknor and got a true. Either way wouldn't matter. Why is claiming it's already been used "more convienient"?
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D3 Death of an investigator

Postby Mavketl » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:53 pm UTC

You already tried false-claiming a result on me, and it didn't work out so well. ;P

Saying you had recently used it on Silknor would be a huge red flag as it seems kind of wasteful since we had a cop result on him.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D3 Death of an investigator

Postby Silknor » Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:28 am UTC

I don't trust Mav. I never do, I know she's too silky smooth to be trusted. But there's not much I have to suspect her of, either because she's a good townie or a very good scum. The lie detectors don't help much either, there's too many possibilities given the tension between Angua and my results.. But Boom has seemed more suspicious for much of the game.

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Re: [S] All The King's Men - D3 Death of an investigator

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:48 pm UTC

Well, good game then. I've still never won as scum. I think I was doing pretty well until about halfway through D2 I thought things were going against me so I decided to falseclaim watcher. I had somehow convinced myself that Mav had copped me because she was trusting me so much D2 (I'm a godfather btw) but that really doesn't fit with her wierd "experiment" D1 if I'd thought about it enough.

This is not a complaint, I think I could have won if I was good enough. But I don't think the set up was very balanced. 1 cop, 1 doc, 3 vanilla town, 1 survivor/jester, 1 goon, 1 godfather. (unless Misnomer had a power I was unaware of). Anyway, that's a fair setup without the truthdetectors, and besides the possibility of a detector manipulating scum the truth detectors are almost a one-shot cop per town player, or at least a half a cop.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - Loyalists win

Postby weiyaoli » Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:16 pm UTC

BF is lynched. Loyalists win.

After exiling BF, the deaths in the palace stopped and a new king was elected. The fledgling revolution was crushed by the army of knights without their leaders or any experienced troops.

Apologies for the lateness of processing stuff and bare flavor towards the end. Quite a lot of this game was a struggle. Here is the original setup for those who are interested, that had a different mechanic that I couldn't really make work with 8 people without it being very very swingy (thanks again to lataro for helping out with the balancing at the beginning:

Special Rules:


Spoiler:
All players will have the following powers:

1. Ability to anonymous message any player at any time by the following format:
ahippo wrote:Send this to weiyaoli:
Thanks for co-modding!


2. A lie detector that can be directed at any one statement in a post or PM received once per day by the following format:

Weeks wrote:Lie detect bolded statement
I'm the cop, NotARaptor is scum


And the mods would respond eitherr
ahippo wrote:True
or
weiyaoli wrote:False


3. A player can choose any one post AND anonymous PM per day to show up as "true" to a lie detector by the following format:
NotARaptor wrote:Truthify the following post:
I'm the doctor, don't lynch me. I know it looks bad but you've gotta believe me.




NOTE: To avoid situations in which the third rule could be undermined once a statement that was in a post chosen by a player to be subject to the 3rd power, has been lie detected it is "Golded" which means if that that statement is lie detected again in a different post written by the same player as the original post the result of the lie detect will be the same.

IE:
NotARaptor wrote:Truthify the following post:
I'm the doctor, don't lynch me. I know it looks bad but you've gotta believe me.


Weeks wrote:Lie detect the following statement:
NotARaptor wrote:I'm the doctor,


ahippo wrote:True


NaR posts in thread:
NotARaptor wrote:Like I told you before, I'm the doctor


Krong wrote:Lie detect the following statement:
NotARaptor wrote:I'm the doctor


weiyaoli wrote:True


The same idea applies to PMs as well.

Also, statements that the player has not "Truthified" and does not actually know the answer to show up as false to lie detects. Analyzation statements or "I believe" statements (essentially anything opinionated) shows up as true to lie detects.

So that players do not take advantage of the fact that truthifying applies to all statements in the post or PM players are limited to saying two outright statements per post. Opinions/Analyzation is not limited

Roles:

Spoiler:
I realize that the majority of this is going to be obvious for you, but I like being thorough.

Outside of the above powers players are assigned the following roles:

Loyalists: Win if a loyalists is named as king.

Role Cop (1): One investigation per night showing the alignment of the target, by the following format:

Weeks wrote:Investigate NotARaptor


And the mod would respond either
ahippo wrote:Loyalist
or
weiyaoli wrote:Revolutionary


Doctor (1): One doctor per night blocking a scum nightkill on that player. May not be used on self. Used by the following format:

Krong wrote:Doctor Weeks


Vanilla Townie (5): No exclusive powers

Revolutionaries: Win if a revolutionary is named king. Collective night kill sent in by the following format:

NotARaptor wrote:Kill Krong


Godfather (1): When investigated by the role cop appears as loyalist. May directly PM any living scum team members at any time.

Goon (2): May directly PM any living scum team members at any time


All players' names and roles will be publicly stated in thread upon death.

Remember, you only have three days to name a king.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - Loyalists win!

Postby Mavketl » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:39 pm UTC

What the fuck, BoomFrog... why did you kill the cop if you're a Godfather?

You completely had me on D1, and on D2 I only started to doubt you because everyone else was being so god damn townie as well (barring slbub, but yeah, modkill). And then your weird claim happened and Angua had copped Silknor as town and everything cleared up.
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weiyaoli, can you clarify something about the lie detector system?

If someone would trutify "I am not town" (presumably that would be scum truthifying someone else's statement), any "I am scum" statement that person makes will show up as true, correct? How does that make sense when
a) the original statement was ALREADY TRUE, so how come everything changes when it is truthified?
b) clearly that person is not scum and nobody has truthified that they are scum?

I still can't get my head around how this works if there are more than two factions... :P
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - Loyalists win!

Postby Mavketl » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:40 pm UTC

Oh, @trusting BoomFrog, I was getting paranoid because I was still alive so maybe scum was someone I was trusting too much and FFS WHY AM I STILL ALIVE <-- my thought process for much of this game. So confused.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - Loyalists win!

Postby Mavketl » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:50 pm UTC

ALSO I can't just think of what I want to say and then post all of it, I have to EBWOP the hell out of myself.

I think the D3 jester was a great role for this set-up. Barring extreme luck/skillz on one side, it was always going to be a 3-day game, so having someone try to be really townie for two days (... theoretically, if they're not Adam H :P ) and then scum out on D3 would've been interesting. And if played well, it would also really help scum, so I think it was a good balancing tool.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - Loyalists win!

Postby weiyaoli » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:12 pm UTC

I goofed a little on the original ruling regarding that. At that point though, I don't think there was any actions sent in anyway. After that, I treated the jester separately from the rest of the game (ignoring the fact that there were technically three "factions") because it would just confuse everyone and wouldn't fix the problem with truthify. Sorry if I confused you with my mistake there, totally my fault.

If anyone is interested, here is the action log:
Spoiler:
D1/N1
Mavketl lie detected "I am scum" from Silknor, receives FALSE.
Slbub lie detected "My faction has a kill" from Angua, receives FALSE.
BoomFrog lie detected "I am not town" from Mavketl, receives FALSE and then truthifies "I am a revolutionary" from Mavketl
Angua investigates Silknor, receives Loyalist
No protect from webby
BF kills webby

D2/N2
slbub truthifies nonsense statement immediately after making it
Angua, Mavketl and Silknor truthify nonsense statements
Angua lie detects "I targetted Mav...." from BF and receives FALSE
No cop from Angua
BF killed Angua

D3
Silknor lie detected "I have not used any truthifies..." from BF and receives TRUE
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - Loyalists win!

Postby Mavketl » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:15 pm UTC

is that no protect from webby and no cop from Angua because they didn't send one in, or because they were killed?

BoomFrog lie detected "I am not town" from Mavketl, receives FALSE and then truthifies "I am a revolutionary" from Mavketl
you bastard :D
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - Loyalists win!

Postby weiyaoli » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:31 pm UTC

They didn't send any actions in.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - Loyalists win!

Postby Angua » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:31 pm UTC

I actually forgot about me having an action in this game on N2, then when I remembered weiyaoli had just pronounced me dead.

I think we would have been big trouble if boomfrog hadn't killed me, though I guess it would have been obvious that by not killing the cop, someone was a godfather, and I would have suspected boomfrog for lying about the targeting thing anyway.
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Re: [S] All The King's Men - Loyalists win!

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:58 am UTC

Exactly, the only reason I wouldn't kill Angua is if I was going to go for the "there is no cop in this game" argument and say angua is scum. Although leaving her alive would cast doubt on Silknor since there is obviously a GF present, but I'd already got cought in too many lies already. For Silk to be scum from my view he would have had to have three powers.

Oh, and Mav I left you alive because a) I thought it likely you would be doctored. b) I thought you'd acted really scummy D1. There was no benifit to asking everyone to keep making "I am scum" statements except to allow scum to truthify them. But unfortunatly no one picked up on that issue besides me... I was REALLY hoping someone would detect your "I am town". :D Interestingly I never had any good reason to use my 2nd truthify. I probably should have truthified something random late on D2 before people started detecting. If Angua had gotten a true I might have still pulled it out.

I think my best chance was if I had claimed vanilla, I was still likely to get a detect used on me but maybe not.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos
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