[M] Doctor Who Mafia - Game over: Town wins

[Vieto]

Yeah, I probably should let Matketl switch back to his original vote. It's only fair for my screw-up.

*loud throut clearing noise*

Didn't I mention? The fixed point also entailed a gender swap
...
Yeah, I'll fix it.

[Mavketl]

Wait. That weird votals thing wasn't supposed to happen? Well, fuck.

For those who missed it, the votals before my post originally said this:

Matketl: 3 (Angua)
angua: 0 (Matketl, GOP)


So I figured claiming (rather than hinting all the time) was my only chance of survival. The numbers also made a re-direct thing make sense: both votes for Angua were suddenly voting with her rather than against her.

I should be able to go back to D3 and get myself lynched, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea. Major plot-spoilers:

Spoiler:

In the series, the doctor had to die. They prevented his death and all of time went wonky and the universe was starting to collapse and other apocalyptic things. But they found a way around it: the original doctor death scene we saw did not have the real doctor in it. It was a robot-like machine that was, among other things, a shape-shifter. It took the shape of the doctor and 'died' in his place.

If anyone has any idea on how to reproduce this effect, please do. In the mean time, rest assured that I will travel back to D3 and make sure I die if there are no other options. But it doesn't have to be today, I can go there from any day. As long as you don't lynch me, I should be just fine until then.



Lastly, feel free to call me 'Mav', it's easier

[Angua]

Ok - I was wondering where the redirect thing was coming from, because I knew that I didn't have one.

It certainly seems like a bad mod error - Mav you should probably make your position on whether you should have your vote back to where it was before the error (as Vieto seems to have offered to let you do). Of course, now that we know that the fixed point was indeed directed at you, it might be easier for you to leave your vote where it is, so we only need one vote to change it.

For the record, I thought that you had been hinting John Smith however were actually the Tesselator which is why you were so sure that it wouldn't matter if john smith had been divulged, because they had nothing to do with the doctor in your role. Then you started attacking me again, and I was wondering if it had all be an elaborate misdirect.

Unless we have a shape-shifter or someone with illusions, or some sort of hypnotic power (who would be able to make it look as though Mav has died if that makes sense), I can't really think of anyway out of this.

Oh, just to make sure,

Is there a time limit on when the paradox has to be fixed by?

That's mainly because

Spoiler:

if we count 'meta-time' as following events from a certain point of view, then it seemed in the show with the paradox that as all of time was unravelling, the doctor only had a certain amount of 'meta-time' in which to fix it, or it would be too late and the universe would end due to time stopping.

[Mavketl]

Having a bit of a conflict on the vote thing. I would not have changed it if the votals had been 'normal'... but I think this outcome is better if we need to change the D3 lynch at any point.

If it's completely my choice, I think we should leave it as it is now (1/1/1), but if the mod feels this is unfair in some way I can understand.


Speaking of which, I just re-checked my (replacement) role PM for an original 'town' win condition and there isn't one. Did anyone else get one at the start of the game?

[ForAllOfThis]

Yea I guess this is out in the open, Mav was who I copped as John Smith D1. I tried to get the cop off early as possible before anyone else could use abilities. I copped
Angua and got Winston Churchill, so seems relatively safe. We probably shouldn't make any plans too public with helping Mav, incase anyone tries to stop us with day powers.

[Mavketl]

This is me, backing off from trying to lynch Angua.

I also feel obliged to point out that Winston Churchill was in cahoots with the daleks. Ya know, to keep in mind for later.


If any cop abilities have not been used, I think it's time to start copping the cops sometime soon. At your own discretion, of course.

[ForAllOfThis]

Yea I'm not entirely convinced of the sanity of my own cop right now. The reason being is that everyone I've copped has been human. I suppose humans are more likely to be town but there's something pinging me about it.

[Mavketl]

Hmm. Naive would make sense, I guess. Problematic.

[weiyaoli]

Well, I copped GoP. I'm not sure what revealing any of what his role does would benefit town in any way but I guess I can confirm that he possessed a one shot cop (not that that particular fact was hard to deduce at all already). He also has something pretty strangely worded but I guess that was what he was referring to yesterday. Nothing particularly telling of any factions to be honest.

I'm a bit hesitant to trust all of FAOT's cop results (and agree with possible naivety). For example, I might believe one minor character is probably in this game (Harriet/Winston) but I'm not sure two would be. Although I guess it's possible when downsizing from a larger game when you just pick the abilities that work together best and not the roles themselves.

[Angua]

Yes, I am Winston Churchill. Also, the 'being in cahoots with the daleks' was him not realising that they were evil killing alien machines that wanted to destroy all life Anyway, the naivety of FaoT's cops is definitely something to be worried about - they seem to be the only person with a day cop. As for the discussion which I missed with the ensuing confusion over votals about whether or not scum is working together or independents - we've had webby be an SK (which I assume is indy) but greenlover came back 'mafia recruiter' so I'm guessing that there must be a mafia of sorts (conman's death didn't say anything about their role).


Also, before I forget - I'm going to be away on Friday and Saturday, and, as my laptop has yet to be fixed (apparently there was also a problem with the heat sink so I have to wait for them to find the part), I'm probably not going to be able to get online until Saturday evening (I leave late Thursday afternoon)

[keeneal]

Hey, everyone. Sorry for being out for the past few days - rough weekend.

Apparently I'm coming off as scumy to some people - I'd appreciate it if someone would say why (especially GoP, b/c he's the only one who actually voted for me).

I have the power to go back in time and vote for Mav, if need be. My personal win condition requires that the Doctor be alive at the end of the game, though, so I'd rather not do it if I don't have to. I'm willing to roleclaim to support this, if need be and the Town thinks it would be beneficial.

[Mavketl]

Are you saying that you would do something that is completely against your win condition? Why would you do that / why would we believe you would do that?

[keeneal]

I'm not convinced that John Smith = Doctor; I'm still thinking it's more along the lines of a failsafe. Besides, I'm aligned pro-town, and the town can't win unless Mav dies on D3... my understanding is that I need to have both a Town win and the Doctor alive. If John Smith = Doctor, then it's "damned if I do, and damned if I don't" situation, and so I may as well help the town.

[ForAllOfThis]

Hold off on the time travel and killing Mav till as long as possible. We might have a solution by then.

[keeneal]

I was planning on waiting for consensus anyway - I just thought it was important that someone besides Mav could do it, since Present!Mav killing Past!Mav could result in a paradox.

[Gopher of Pern]

keeneal, you weren't really coming off as scummy, but neutral. You were just the best lynch at that time, running down my list of scum. I basically wanted a bit more discussion.

A handy list of players and roles atm:

Mavketl - John Smith (time-travel)
Chandani - Harriet Jones
Angua - Winston Churchill
FAOT - Rose (role-cop)
weiyaoli - ? (Has ability cop/no timetravel)
GoP - ? (Had 1-shot rolecop)
keeneal - ? (apparently needs the doc to be alive/time-travel)

Something does seem up there. From the opening flavour, it does seem that there should be a dalek in there somewhere. There is also the case of who made the kill in the first day. I suppose it could have been 1-shot from the recruiter. I noticed some people have been thinking about the sanity of Rose's cops. Is there any reason for that? Should we distrust it?

Does anyone agree with the remaining 3 players claiming? I'll claim if others want.

As for keeneals win condition, I might have a way for that to work. I don't want to say too much at this time, because I do want to steer the discussion towards lynching scum, and I'm not convinced of keeneals town-cred.

[Angua]

I'm going to be away from this afternoon to sometime on Saturday afternoon. As the days have got shorter, if the mod feels that I need a replacement, then so be it.

GoP - I think the main reason for suspicion over the cops is because so far everyone has copped as human to them, and you'd expect more aliens in this game. However, conman, webby and greenlover have all been found as aliens (though we are not 100% sure on the sanity of conman) so it is possibly that we don't have that many aliens left (doctor who does have a very human-heavy cast after all).

Also, something I've been wondering, and if I get replaced, it might come in handy tomorrow for you all to think about - once we finish D5, we all get sent back to D1. Are we then going to only be able to lynch a second person, or would we have to switch if possible, and will people who were still alive on D1 (eg conman, greenlover, webby) come back into the game and be able to use their powers (the most problematic here would probably be webby killing someone if that did happen).

[Mavketl]

keeneal: I very much doubt that you would be given an impossible set of win conditions. So there has to be a way to make this work.

I noticed some people have been thinking about the sanity of Rose's cops. Is there any reason for that? Should we distrust it?

Reason: it's increasingly unlikely that every single person FAOT cops is human. No alien baddies, no alien neutrals, no alien good guys... no aliens at all. Coupled with Rose being rather trusting and the amount of cops we have flying around, a naive cop seems like a plausible explanation.

[ForAllOfThis]

It may be that the human results are somehow linked to the alien counterpart, e.g. Angua copped winston which may mean Dalek, Harriet linked to whatever alien she destroyed. Whenever the doctor + companion time travel everything usually looks normal to begin with, and not until later in the episode do they find out they are surrounded by enemies. Although we have yet to have anyone counterclaim one of my results.

[Angua]

I just realised that the deadline is tonight.... I don't know who to vote for, and I won't be around, so I'm leaving it with no vote from me.

[weiyaoli]

It may be that the human results are somehow linked to the alien counterpart, e.g. Angua copped winston which may mean Dalek, Harriet linked to whatever alien she destroyed. Whenever the doctor + companion time travel everything usually looks normal to begin with, and not until later in the episode do they find out they are surrounded by enemies. Although we have yet to have anyone counterclaim one of my results.

I think this is because if your cop is naive, scum wouldn't be counter-claiming your results (obviously as they make them look better) and town would probably be copped correctly so they wouldn't claim either or at least like Mav your cop makes them seem less dangerous than they actually are. So you either have a naive or sane cop depending on if you've actually copped scum so far.

[ForAllOfThis]

Really? Bleh I'm going to go ahead and claim this because I submitted the action ages ago and as I understand it's still being processed, which means that it will be prcoessed before any scum actions are processed as a result of this but its important that I tell you before tomorrow (game wise).

I left out an important part of my role when I told you guys. I have the ability to edit one persons role but I will die the next day without medical attention (I don't suppose anyone can give me medical attention?). I will be editing Mavs role so that she can be lynched D3 without dying (it'll be like a one/two-shot lynch immunity or something), any ideas on this front would be excellent, especially from you Mav.

[Mavketl]

Actually, I just noticed that the mod doesn't require the doctor to die; he requires me (Mavketl) to die. Lynch-immunity will keep me from dying.

I have an idea, but for that I need to know if anyone has a kill at their disposal that they are willing to use for this. And check some things with the mod.

[keeneal]

Seeing as how I'm one of three people without a claim, I'm feeling like maybe I should claim. We're nearing endgame, so I feel like I may as well.

I'm River Song - I have a daily death-cop (you'll recall that I copped Conman on D1 as the Master - I haven't copped anyone else whose roles you don't already know). I can time-travel once per day, and have a one-shot kill on D2 and D4 (neither of which have been used yet, obviously). I'm aligned Town, but must end the game with the Doctor alive. I got a letter from the Master with my role PM, but can't discuss what it said.

Since we're working with time-travel in this death-thing...
What are the consequences of having a paradox exist?

I've just moved to D2 for a few reasons:
1. It helps confirm my claim
2. I'm the person out there with the most complete claim ATM, and I feel vulnerable because I'm a bit of a power role. It's harder to kill me in the past than it is to do it now.
3. I can be useful there with my one-kill if we decide to use it
4. Since past-days advance in 24 hour increments, I'd naturally progress to D3 tomorrow, so I could vote Mav (if the town wants). Then I could wait another 24 hours to get back to today, use both my second day-kill and my vote, and then time travel to D5 and participate in the final vote.

[Mavketl]

plot spoilers! but kind of essential to the game. sorry.

How the hell do I need to die on D3 if the person who is supposed to kill me (River Song) can't kill on D3? This whole business is not making sense.

I haven't copped anyone else whose roles you don't already know

Can you please share your results, even if they are duplicates?

And I hate to repeat myself, but it would be extremely screwed-up for you to have two win conditions that are impossible to achieve. So there has to be a way to fix this, we just haven't found it yet. I'd gladly request nobody kill me until we're sure of what the hell is going on - I promise that I will do it myself if I'm convinced that it's the right thing to do.

Does anyone agree with the remaining 3 players claiming? I'll claim if others want.

I'm all for claims.

Also, the deadline is at Thursday night 9pm something which I'm guessing is very soon. So I'm going to vote.

Vote: weiyaoli

[keeneal]

I double-checked Webby D2, and got Weeping Angel - I did that so I could compare my result with a known value and thereby establish my sanity. Unless the Mod is messing with peoples' sanities on the fly, I'm probably OK.

I didn't do a cop on D3, because the only new dead person was killed during the lynch, and I might want to use it later if I ever went back to D3 (which now I will be).

And I hate to repeat myself, but it would be extremely screwed-up for you to have two win conditions that are impossible to achieve. So there has to be a way to fix this, we just haven't found it yet. I'd gladly request nobody kill me until we're sure of what the hell is going on - I promise that I will do it myself if I'm convinced that it's the right thing to do.

I think that a paradox might do it. It's another reason I moved to D2, but didn't mention it to keep people from going Gee Willikers DON'T KILL MAV WTF!!! I'm happy to just chill out and wait for instructions and try to think of a solution in the meantime.

Finding said solution might be easier if everyone claimed, btw. It seems to me that only 1 or 2 people have actually done a full claim - everyone else got Copped, so we don't know what other powers people may have. I can understand the desire to not do full claims (giving scum targets and all that), but I can't help think that this "Kill Mav/Can't Kill Mav" thing is a puzzle that we have to solve - if that's the case, we should make sure that we're using all the tools at our disposal.

[keeneal]

ebwop

lol awesomification

[Gopher of Pern]

I'm Captain Jack Harkness. I have a one-shot Role-cop, and a one-shot past doctor. I thought I could use my doctor to save you Mav, but I just got confirmation that it doesn't work on lynches. So the only person it is useful on is Conman, who we believe is The Master. I can't time travel on my own, but I can use another's time travel device, which means they can't use it. I tried to use Weiyaoli's today, to no effect.

I will be able to check periodically, and I agree that weiyaoli is the best lynch today, but I will refrain on voting unless needed.

[ForAllOfThis]

Hmmm, I could try to give you a self-ressurection Mav (lynch-specific?), although I haven't had a chance to look at your role yet. I expect rengeration will be part of it already. GoP you would have been able to use it on me if I had used my power earlier.

[keeneal]

I can't time travel on my own, but I can use another's time travel device, which means they can't use it. I tried to use Weiyaoli's today, to no effect

Any idea why? That seems odd, since we'd know if Weiyaoli had used it. If there wasn't a reason given, it might be worthwhile to go back and figure out where we got the idea that Wei could time-travel.

[Gopher of Pern]

I can't time travel on my own, but I can use another's time travel device, which means they can't use it. I tried to use Weiyaoli's today, to no effect

Any idea why? That seems odd, since we'd know if Weiyaoli had used it. If there wasn't a reason given, it might be worthwhile to go back and figure out where we got the idea that Wei could time-travel.

Well, I got back the message that Weiyaoli did not have time travel at this time, so it could be possible their time travel is conditional, like mine. And since when did we get the idea that Weiy could time travel? I explicitly said that they couldn't.

[keeneal]

You tried to use to use it today, right? I assumed that you knew he could is all.

[Mavketl]

Hmmm, I could try to give you a self-ressurection Mav (lynch-specific?), although I haven't had a chance to look at your role yet. I expect rengeration will be part of it already.

Not for lynches.

As for the John Smith / Doctor confusion: I started as John Smith, I later turned into the Doctor.


I'm a bit confused by GoP's time travel thing. You knew weiyaoli didn't have a time travel ability, and yet you chose to try to use his time travel ability? I must be missing something here.

[keeneal]

I'm a bit confused by GoP's time travel thing. You knew weiyaoli didn't have a time travel ability, and yet you chose to try to use his time travel ability? I must be missing something here.

this is why I was confused in the last post.

[weiyaoli]

Quick self preservation vote:
Vote: Chandani

[Gopher of Pern]

Vote: Weiyaoli

No, I only discovered Weiyaoli didn't have time travel because I tried to use it. Getting cause and effect mixed up, sorry.

[Vieto]

Just a reminder, a lynch on D3 is not required. I only ever said he had to die (read: D3 post)

votals:
Weiyaoli:2 (Mavketl, GoP)
Chandani: 1 (Weiyaoli)

due to events I'm going to tonight, deadline extended to midnight.

edit: Also, Keeneal is in D2.

[Chandani]

Going to vote for wei for extra protection as well as the fact that if Mav dies, it would get weird.

Vote: Weiyaoli

[Vieto]

Everyone teamed up on Weiyaoli, who was trying to escape frantically. Turning around, he took out his laser screwdriver in an attempt to fight back, but not before everyone took out there pistols and rayguns, and fired at him several times, before he floated out of the airlock. As he fell into the nearby star, someone looked at him through binoculars, as the city slowly began to fill up with water.

D5, 5 players in present, Keeneal in D2. 3 people to lynch.

Weiyaoli is dead. He was The Master, mafia traitor/sk.

[keeneal]

Are roles revealed upon lynch guaranteed to be true, accurate, and correct?