[L] Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels Mafia - Game Over

[RoadieRich]

Since there's probably no one who wants you guys dead I think you should all claim. I don't see why you haven't.

Seconded.

[Mavketl]

I hadn't done it yet because I was trying to help town. Telling scum who all the survivors are makes it pretty obvious who the townies are (namely, all other players). If not all of us are 'public', scum aren't guaranteed to hit town with the NK - and one of us dying doesn't interfere with our win condition.

Which by the way makes me incredibly paranoid about why you WOULD want us to claim. How is that possibly good for you if you're town?

Anyway, a claim is fine by me, but I won't claim for another player. It's their own decision. Also I'd suggest that we don't claim rolenames, since they're irrelevant to anyone but a lyncher-type role.

[roband]

Deadline is now set as 52 hours and about 5 minutes from this post. Sorry it ends on a weekend, but that's what is best for me!

[DaBigCheez]

Sorry for not posting more, my brain hasn't really been in Mafia mode of late; I'll try to avoid signing up for more games until that's fixed, and in the meantime will try to post more so I don't need a replacement (and because it's not fair to you guys to have me hanging around not doing anything).

I, too, am worried about the speed with which slbub got to L-1; could someone unvote so he can't self-hammer before we get more discussion going, please? (I think he's the best lynch for today, I just don't like sitting at L-1 unless deadline's imminent or we're hammering.)

...And yet I can't really think of more content to post. Ain't them the breaks? It does seem likely that the remaining gangs are Harry (2 members remaining, Little Chris + Harry?), Eddy (2 members remaining), Winston's gang (3 members remaining and an indy, 4 members remaining, 2 members remaining and an extra faction?).

I'm happiest with a slbub lynch, and we can go from there. Will wait for Chandani's post before hammertime.

[RoadieRich]

I hadn't done it yet because I was trying to help town. Telling scum who all the survivors are makes it pretty obvious who the townies are (namely, all other players). If not all of us are 'public', scum aren't guaranteed to hit town with the NK - and one of us dying doesn't interfere with our win condition.

Which by the way makes me incredibly paranoid about why you WOULD want us to claim. How is that possibly good for you if you're town?

Anyway, a claim is fine by me, but I won't claim for another player. It's their own decision. Also I'd suggest that we don't claim rolenames, since they're irrelevant to anyone but a lyncher-type role.

Three of the four gangs we've seen have been eliminated, meaning there's probably only one kill left. If Slbub isn't the last member of Harry's gang - although I can't see why he would be, we need to rule out the members of your gang - as that one kill could be expensive if it occurs multiple times.

I'm also a little cautious that we've not seen any other members of your gang killed.

[Chandani]

So... we got 8 people left.
There's Mav and GL who have claimed survivor. So, unless they're lying together and are both in the same evil faction (which I doubt since claiming a faction which no one thought existed isn't the best way to sneak yourself out of a situation, and GL agree with Mav's claim, if I'm remembering correctly), they're fine for town.
So that leaves RoadieRich, DaBigCheez, BoomFrog, slbub, and Angua.

slbub has been acting pretty consistently scummy recently. However, the bandwagon on slbub is a bit quick, at least.
Do I think there's a better option? Nope. But can we wait until slbub defends himself or something before we lynch him? Cool.

After slbub, I would probably categorize everyone else from most to least scummiest as BoomFrog>Angua=RR=DBC. BoomFrog got a little bit ahead with his quick switch from his vote off me to slbub, as well as with asking all survivors to claim, thus allowing town to be very, very visible to scum. Everyone else is pretty neutral: RR has been posting a lot, Angua has been providing a good amount of content, and DBC has acted pretty townie in the past, though I don't think he's posted as much as the other two.

So I agree with the current lynch target. I'm willing to give slbub a bit more time to respond or explain himself.

[BoomFrog]

I hadn't done it yet because I was trying to help town. Telling scum who all the survivors are makes it pretty obvious who the townies are (namely, all other players). If not all of us are 'public', scum aren't guaranteed to hit town with the NK - and one of us dying doesn't interfere with our win condition.

Which by the way makes me incredibly paranoid about why you WOULD want us to claim. How is that possibly good for you if you're town?

Anyway, a claim is fine by me, but I won't claim for another player. It's their own decision. Also I'd suggest that we don't claim rolenames, since they're irrelevant to anyone but a lyncher-type role.

That's the funny part, it is bad for town if you claim, and I don't want you to. But it would be good for you so its making me paranoid that you haven't. I suppose since no one will bother killing you two your victory is already virtually guaranteed so your just helping me out since I trusted you guys. That's cool, thanks then.

As to the criticisms of a quick lynch without discussion with one indy and one scum team left its scum who wants more information today. I think its pretty clear who at least two of the scum are so there is no need to reveal what I know today as I'm sure I'm not the only one who's figured it out. If there's still two NKs then Towns best chance is for scum to hit eachother still.

If there's no indy and winstons gang is 4 strong then towns essentially won anyway so let's go already.

[Angua]

Just posting to say that the reason I didn't post last night was because I'm really, really ill (haven't eaten in 2 days). I won't really be much use with any content, but though you all should know.

[roband]

Deadline is in 9 hours.

[roband]

Slbub was lynched. Night begins now. 3 days from this post. I will end night sooner if possible though.

[roband]

slbub was lynched. He was Harry, leader of Harry's gang. He had a one-shot unstoppable NK.

A quieter night than has been common recently. But a shocking discovery to be made.

RoadieRich is dead. He was Little Chris, part of Harry's gang. No powers of which he was aware.
A kid's body, lifeless.

Harry's gang has been eliminated. Their win condition was the elimination of other aggressive factions.

A meeting in the street. Two groups, or the remainder of them anyway. An agreement is made. Winston's gang take the weed, Eddy's gang take the money. Someone spots Nick in the background, walking into the distance with a pair of antique shotguns.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The game is over.

Winston's gang successfully completed their win condition of surviving.
Eddy's gang successfully completed their win condition of eliminating all other aggressive factions.

I hope this was enjoyable for everyone. I want to hear your thoughts, good and bad. I will release modnotes shortly.
If you enjoyed the game, I hope you'll consider signing up for my next Large game, which will be based on Snatch (Guy Ritchie's next movie after Lock, Stock).

[Angua]

Wow, I actually made it to the end of a mafia game without dying! And won! How about that?

[roband]

Role PMs and (some of the) flavour: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_hX ... fJFJ0/edit

Night actions (plus unknown immunities): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... UQ0ejd4VUE

[mpolo]

It was interesting. It's too bad we let BoomFrog get away with his "Eddy=town". He was as scummy as anybody else (had kill, etc.)

What was the deal with Nick's gifts?

[roband]

What was the deal with Nick's gifts?

Random, one person each night would get a 'gift'. I forget who got them now, and didn't write it down.

PE was night action immune at one point, and Chandani got a roleblock somewhere in there.

It was an addition to the game, and to your role mpolo. Sorry if it added confusion.

[Mavketl]

It was interesting. It's too bad we let BoomFrog get away with his "Eddy=town". He was as scummy as anybody else (had kill, etc.)

As I said before - it's so ridiculously easy to fake the "I know town's win condition" thing, it's not really a strong tell. Then again, everyone was happy to lynch anyone who was not of their own faction, so you don't need scum tells, you just need excuses. The win condition thing was a fine excuse to get rid of people.

Comments for roband:
I think our win condition was a little too easy. We could either claim it and nobody bothered us anymore (greenlover and I) or lurk through the second half of the game and be fine (Chandani and DBC). The claiming is the largest weak spot, though - theoretically we could've claimed on D1 and do nothing for the rest of the game. There should've been a lyncher for Winston or some other punishment, I think.
As for the faction vs faction vs faction vs faction set-up: I think it was well-executed. I personally prefer games that have a more traditional town faction, but this game at least pretended to have that for quite some time, that was nice.


On a side note, greenlover, we still make an awesome survivor team! I had Dune flashbacks this game.

[roband]

Comments for roband:
I think our win condition was a little too easy. We could either claim it and nobody bothered us anymore (greenlover and I) or lurk through the second half of the game and be fine (Chandani and DBC). The claiming is the largest weak spot, though - theoretically we could've claimed on D1 and do nothing for the rest of the game. There should've been a lyncher for Winston or some other punishment, I think.
As for the faction vs faction vs faction vs faction set-up: I think it was well-executed. I personally prefer games that have a more traditional town faction, but this game at least pretended to have that for quite some time, that was nice.

Yep, in hindsight I'd have more danger in you guys claiming, and also made your win condition harder (2 or 3 of you required to survive).

Faction vs Faction vs... etc. is something that was inevitable in this game - flavour dictated that much. As for Snatch? Well, I won't be talking about that in advance

[BoomFrog]

Yeah, the lie that there was a town was basically a day time alliance to control the lynch. Although D1 our glorious mod forgot to tell us we had a kill so we actually believed we were town. Also Webby survived our NK D1 so we thought that he was NK immune and I was wondering how we were going to lynch him at the end.

Mav did you support me because I supported you D3 or just because I was most vocal at leading the lynch?

I can't read the mod notes right now. How many times was I NKed?

[Mavketl]

I figured that if there was a town, yours was the only faction to have claimed it... and if there wasn't a town, I didn't really care which faction won so might as well have been yours.

[DaBigCheez]

I can't read the mod notes right now. How many times was I NKed?

3 times

Twice on N2 (by PE and slbub), once on N4 by RoadieRich (though he was roleblocked for that one anyway).

Every member of survivor faction living through the game ftw?

Yeah, sorry for my shoddy activity level this game; and Mav, I really probably should have claimed Winston's gang before you did, as losing me would have been less of a loss when you still had your vigkill unused. (Plus, it turns out I would have absorbed a kill.) I was just worried about a possible trap I wasn't seeing, which made me too paranoid to ever really make any moves :/

[Gopher of Pern]

Bah! I was almost completely right about the setup, and tried to help everyone, and got lynched for it. I really should have thought through that earlier! But really, as soon as a few people vote for the same person, they are gonna be lynched, due to how many people didn't care who was gonna be lynched, as long as it wasn't part of their team. Still had fun following it though.

[BoomFrog]

Argh, detailed feedback eaten by forum

Anyway, I think the game was fun but lost a little something when it became clear that it was a fairly straightforward FFA. I liked mpolo's idea that each faction had a specific target and some of the factions could mutually win. It would have made the discussion more then just trying to point the bandwagon as fast as possible. Or maybe "the money", "the guns", and "the drugs" would be items that can be taken by killing someone and they would each give a win to the faction that owned them at the end of D3. Although that would have just resulted in the same FFA feeling, so meh.

I think the key would be to make it so more mutual wins can happen but also have lynchers and special kills that punish revealing too much info. Then people would have something to talk about but wouldn't want to mass claim.

If I was going to be lynched my claim was going to be traffic warden. I am NK immune and get a half win for each time I am NKed and a half win for surviving until the end. FAOT's "squeezed" claim was interesting but it really didn't give us a reason to not lynch you.

Thanks for the game Rob. And *high-five* Angua for excellent middle of the road playing. Reasonable enough to not be lynched and non-threatening enough to avoid being NKed.

[roband]

Anyway, I think the game was fun but lost a little something when it became clear that it was a fairly straightforward FFA. I liked mpolo's idea that each faction had a specific target and some of the factions could mutually win. It would have made the discussion more then just trying to point the bandwagon as fast as possible. Or maybe "the money", "the guns", and "the drugs" would be items that can be taken by killing someone and they would each give a win to the faction that owned them at the end of D3. Although that would have just resulted in the same FFA feeling, so meh.

I don't know what FFA means.

BoomFrog, you hit the nail on the head - if the game had gotten 26 signups, I would have also introduced a more complicated system of searching for the money, drugs and guns.
Money would have bought a cop investigation, the drugs could give a roleblock and the guns an extra kill - this is all per night.

As it was, I made the game smaller, had to up the powers of each individual and reduce the 'search for the items' powers to 'random gift from Nick' powers.

Obviously there are things I would change, but I think the game ran pretty smoothly. There will be basic changes for the next game - set times for Day and Night lengths, for example. I was fairly inconsistent with those and I want to improve that.

[BoomFrog]

FFA = Free For All

Since there was no actual majority side, aka no real town, everyone just wanted to lynch someone who they knew for a fact was not on their team. There was very little actual scum hunting. I did do a little deduction to figure out who was on Harry's team so we could NK them because I didn't want them be able to overpower us, but that was pretty minimal. (and apparently useless since Winston's gang had 4 members and were essentiall king makers by D3.)

I liked the game, but I do think a core of mafia is that you are either scum hunting or hiding from the scum hunters. This game had neither.

[roband]

thanks for the feedback

[Mavketl]

Yeah, sorry for my shoddy activity level this game; and Mav, I really probably should have claimed Winston's gang before you did, as losing me would have been less of a loss when you still had your vigkill unused. (Plus, it turns out I would have absorbed a kill.) I was just worried about a possible trap I wasn't seeing, which made me too paranoid to ever really make any moves :/

My claiming was a little careless, which is not generally a good play style for a survivor... but I was pretty sure I could risk it plus it was fun to yell at FAOT at the time because he was being annoying. I think that your caution was reasonable, especially since if there was a lyncher for any of us, it would likely have been you.