Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:19 am UTC

Well when I realized why I liked mafia it distilled into a nice slogan:

Mafia. It's arguing on the internet, but you can win.
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby roband » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:15 am UTC

_infina_ wrote:
Krong wrote:It looks like infina's planning on Firefly as a large for when we start this... sound good to everyone? I think it works.

I'd need the time for signups anyways, so might as well make it coincide.


You really think it's gonna take that long to fill signups? I reckon it'll be full about a month before the start date suggested, and it'll get the same stagnation problems as that other Large. Just my tuppence.

Vieto wrote:Sherlock Holmes Mafia! That's it!

edit: now, to add a dash of 22nd century or not...


:( This was what I had planned as the finale of my 'Guy Ritchie Season'. I was hoping by the time I'd modded so many games, I'd be good enough at it to tackle the responsibility to taking on such a classic. It'll probably never happen - you should go for it.
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:18 am UTC

roband wrote:You really think it's gonna take that long to fill signups? I reckon it'll be full about a month before the start date suggested, and it'll get the same stagnation problems as that other Large. Just my tuppence.
It obviously won't take that long to fill, but with the very clear start date it should not suffer from the stagnation problem, or at least not nearly as much. Everyone signing up should know thier schedule decently enough. I think every game should have such a clear start date during sign-ups.

Actually I'd really love it if every game in sign-ups had a clear start and end date and minimum players needed to start listed.

Anyway, back on topic, we should still do the points thing. We could simply have a leader board for the whole event or I could give people stronger power roles based on how many points they earned before they die. That probably wouldn't work very well though as mafia would know to NK them, although I could make some of the power roles more defensive, and of course scum would want to recruit them as well. But if the points have an actually effect on the game I would have to bar any mods of involved games from playing in the underworld game. Maybe better to just stick to a leader-board.

Thoughts?
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby Vieto » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:54 pm UTC

roband wrote:
Vieto wrote:Sherlock Holmes Mafia! That's it!

edit: now, to add a dash of 22nd century or not...


:( This was what I had planned as the finale of my 'Guy Ritchie Season'. I was hoping by the time I'd modded so many games, I'd be good enough at it to tackle the responsibility to taking on such a classic. It'll probably never happen - you should go for it.


definitely no 22nd century then.

But yeah, I'm a tad rusty on my Sherlock Holmes (I haven't read any SH books for 5+ years), so I definitely need to do that before I design the game.
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby t1mm01994 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:59 am UTC

As a newb on these forums, but quite an experienced IRL mafia player (well, actually Werewolves, but too similar too care), these forums just need a minor revamp.
[DISCLAIMER]Everything in the rest of this post is extremely subjective. Please do not kill me for it, but treat it as my opinion [/DISCLAIMER]
1: The rules need some clarity here and there. Now they are pretty ambiguous at places (other threads point out where, I'm willing to do so if asked), and yeah, rules are basically the #1 thing that helps new players into the game.
2: Going into a game is confusing for a new player. I wanted in on this, but had somewhat trouble finding out which game best to join, or even how to join the game; the sign-up thread is a bit clogged, too.
3: Scoring in general would be very nice, too. Right now it's "play 1 game, win/lose, move on". There's no long-term competition, no real addicting factor to play it here.

I'd be more than willing to help with any of this, if needed.
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby Vieto » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:51 pm UTC

t1mm01994 wrote:3: Scoring in general would be very nice, too. Right now it's "play 1 game, win/lose, move on". There's no long-term competition, no real addicting factor to play it here.


We need achievements! With flashy colours that occur instantaneously upon achieving it.
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby Lataro » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:58 pm UTC

Achievement Get!
Town Win

Achievement Get!
Mafia Win

Achievement Get!
First Day Lynched

Achievement Get!
Indie Win

Achievement Get!
Died To Jesterbomb

Achievement Get!
The Hammerer

Achievement Get!
Survive a lynch By A Margin Of One Vote

Achievement Get!
Nightkilled

Achievement Get!
Flawless Victory

Achievement Get!
Played A Game

Achievement Get!
Played Five games

Achievement Get!
Played In Two Games At Once

Achievement Get!
Culted

Achievement Get!
Win As Town, Mafia, Cult, Survivor, Lyncher, Jester, And SK
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby t1mm01994 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:13 pm UTC

Achievement Get!
Spilled Wine

But semi-seriously, something like that.... Something to make it inviting and rewarding to play... Or something that can reward you after you die, cus I feel like you've got a long time to forget about a game if you're killed on D1/N1.
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby Vieto » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:29 pm UTC

Achievement Get!
Be culted by a Jester Bomb Cult!

Achievable Get!
Win -1 games!
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby roband » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:16 pm UTC

I suggest that a new 'discussion thread' is started, specifically for the event.

This one could even just be renamed and used.
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby tastelikecoke » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:26 pm UTC

Maybe soon they'll be complaining about achievement farming in mafia. (like make a game where there's no scum at all and freak everyone out)
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby Krong » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:05 am UTC

Alright, so... we should wrap up our planning soon so we have time to advertise. What do we still need to figure out?
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby t1mm01994 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:50 am UTC

What lineup do we want to start with, how od we reward people for games won. I think that's about it...
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:35 am UTC

For starting lineup I think we've got:

Firefly Mafia (infina - Large)
Hogwarts Mafia (Gopher of Pern - Medium)
Underworld (BoomFrog - Small [sort of])

It'd be nice to have a vannila and or a more normal small in there. Maybe webby's scales of justice can be revitilized, by tossing out the old signups and saying it will start on Jan 15th with however many players we have? Or maybe someone can run a C9?

As for rewards, I think the acheivments/points were a good idea. Let's brainstorm some "official" acheivments.

roband wrote:I suggest that a new 'discussion thread' is started, specifically for the event.

This one could even just be renamed and used.
Why do you think that the old discussion thread is unsuitable? I don't think the "Event" is going to be all that different from our usual play.
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:34 am UTC

Note similar roles can still earn the acheivment at the mods discrestion. For example the one-shot medics in Lataro's Fun game of Fun could qualify you for a Doctor acheivment. Please, do not prioritize getting an achievment over winning the game.

Acheivments:

Spoiler:
Made man
Survive until the end of the game and win as Mafia (or werewolves).

Showdown
In a game down to two uncofirmed townies and one scum, win as town.


Hidden in plain sight
Get to a day with only you and townies alive then go on to win as a Serial Killer

Die Easy
Win on D3 or later as a Jester

Hero
Survive to the end of the game and kill Scum every night as a vigilante

Not so confirmed townie
Get investigated when you are the Godfather

Taking one for the team
Get nightkilled as Vanilla town N1

Doctor Who?
Block the nightkill as a Doctor N1 in a game with at least 8 players.

Brickwall
Block the scum Nightkill as a town Roleblocker N1.

Fast Talker
Get put at L-1 but don't get lynched D1.

Much Loved
Be targeted by nightkills three times or more in a single game.

Guns on the Bus go bang, bang, bang
Redirect a kill back onto the killer or thier teammate.

Tricksy
As scum change the result of an investigation by using a redirection power.

Testicular Elephantitis
Falseclaim miller as scum D1 and go on to win the game.

Liar
As scum false counterclaim a town power role and get the power role lynched. Then go on to win the game.


I wanted the achievments to actually be unusual and impressive plays. Which is why I struck out the first two. I'm open to more suggestions and especially better names. I think we could start a seperat thread to track available achievments. Keep the final scores or each game, and each players score. Such as:

BoomFrog
2 - Town Wins (Robin Hood, Lataro's Fun Game of Fun)
1 - Town Losses (Roband's Fun Game of Fun)
0 - Independent wins
0 - Independent Losses
1 - Mafia win (Mulanfia)
2 - Mafia Losses (Wizardy 2.5, All the Kings Men)
0 - Modkills
Much Loved (Lock Stock), Not-so-confirmed Townie (All the kings men)

Thoughts?
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby t1mm01994 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:31 pm UTC

Going to bump this up, and quite drastically so.
I think, in order to make this forum attractive to new people, things need to change. I'm going to be a bit blunt and to the point here, sorry for that. Anything is open for criticism, as I do not want to scare away the old playerbase, which I'm not even part of yet.

1: Signing up isn't explained that well, and the current system is kind of hard. Games can get lost in the thread if not enough people subscribe and other games are subscribed more to, and it's overall really hard to see which games are active. It'd be a lot easier to have a lot of information in spoilers, and all the active games (with Small, Mediumx2, Large, Turbo and Vanilla this can never be more than 6) written out. Example of a sign-up thread the way I mean would be as follows:
Welcome to Hogwarts School Of Witchcraft And Wizardry!

Welcome to Hogwarts. I'm sure you will all enjoy your stay here, and will learn much. You will all be sorted into your houses, who will basically be your families from here on in, so learn to trust them.

However, be warned. There is rumours of a cult trying to infiltrate the school. I can assure you there is no danger here, and there is nothing to worry about!

Again, Welcome to Hogwarts!

Basic information:
Spoiler:
Start Date: January 16th
Bastardry: none, everything will operate by predefined rules
Open/closed: semi-open
Players: 8-16
Mod: Gopher of Pern (I might find a co-mod)
Deadline: 7 days for days, 3 for nights.
Game type: Medium

Game Rules:
Spoiler:
Everyone will be sorted into one of the houses - Gryffindor, Hufflepuff, Ravenclaw and Slytherin. If the numbers aren't divisible by 4, any extras will be independants. Everyone in a house will have private chat with their housemates, day and night. Also available are house points, which constitute a secondary win condition - Whichever house has the most points at the end of the game has an additional win. Each house also has a power associated with it. At night, the house can vote on which member will carry out this action. Gryffindor has a Roleblock action. Hufflepuff have a doctor action. Ravenclaw have a combined watcher/tracker action. Slytherin have a cop action.

Scum may have powers, depending on the game size. Scum may be part of any house.Scum will only have night chat between each other, but will still have mason chat with their housemates.

House Points: The following will earn house points:
You will earn 1 point per post you make. Double posts will be counted as 1 post. Simple one liners saying 'I will post later' will not count. Post must contain content relevant to the game. All points will be decided by the mods, so any attempts to inflate your score using trickery will first be met with points penalties, and maybe a modkill if it is serious. So no tactics such as 2 people continually posting one after each other. This rule is in place to encourage posting, not to spam the game.
You will earn 3 points for having a vote on at the end of the day.
You will earn 5 points at the beginning of the day if you had a vote on scum and they were lynched.
House points will be shown at the same time Votals are shown.

Players:
Spoiler:
1 - roband (I pity any mod who wants to decide if my posts are contentful or just chatty :( )
2 - Azrael001 (Let's see if we can Methods of Rationality this game... to the limit!)
3 - mostlynormal (I've got nothing to say, and I am saying it!)
4 -
5 - Lataro (I call lynch immune!)
6 -
7 - Tim (No, it's Wingardium LeviOsa, not Wingardium LevioSA!)
8 -

16 -

That as pagetopper, or anywhere near that, and then all other posts just anything that makes it clear that you subscribe to game X.. Easier to explain, games can't get lost, easier to follow. Might look just as attractive too ;)
2: The rules are a bit dated, or sloppy.. I did not have everything clear to me when I stopped reading it. I do not have a ruleset 2.0 here, and I think that should be left to one of you, too.

The lineup still needs to be clarified a bit too, but we've got some time for that.. I at least think we need some vanillagame with some veterans in it to kick it all off, and a full-on veteran game to run besides it so people can see how it's really done, and after that business as usual just with attractive games :P
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby bantler » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:53 pm UTC

t1mm01994 wrote:Going to bump this up, and quite drastically so.
I think, in order to make this forum attractive to new people, things need to change. I'm going to be a bit blunt and to the point here, sorry for that. Anything is open for criticism, as I do not want to scare away the old playerbase, which I'm not even part of yet.

1: Signing up isn't explained that well, and the current system is kind of hard. Games can get lost in the thread if not enough people subscribe and other games are subscribed more to, and it's overall really hard to see which games are active.



Surely there must be a more elegant manner to handle sign-ups than pages of overlapping copy/pastes of the entire set-ups. In most forums, once the mod gets the go-ahead to host their game, they create a new-thread and keep track of all the sign-ups in the OP. Anyone interested can check status with a glance and a click.

This sub-forum devolved from a webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language. But it doesn’t show.
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby Adam H » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:42 pm UTC

bantler wrote:This sub-forum devolved from a webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language. But it doesn’t show.
More romance needed!!!!


ANYWAYS, we doing this new year's event or what? Krong needs to update the first couple posts of this thread.

Under "things we'll be doing" put down BF's underworld game if he confirms that he can still do that. Firefly and Hogwarts are still for this event, I take it? I will mod a micro/small vanilla game, so you can put me down for that. Call it zombie apocolypse. I'll put it in the presignup queue
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby webby » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:08 pm UTC

Yeah, is this meant to be starting next week?

Ideas for any improvements to Resistance are welcomed. The general consensus is that it's a little unbalanced in favour of the resistance over the spies.
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby Lataro » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:11 am UTC

A little?

I think vanilla without plot powers would make it lean less towards the resistance. That, or re-work powers to have a less massively pro-resistance slant. Only a small number of the existing ones can help scum in any way at all, and those are largely circumstantial, and will only come into play if town foolishly gets the rejections close to the cap of 5.

On that note, keep it as it is, and make the rejection cap 3 instead of 5. This gives town less ability to skip around freely to vamp for more discussion time or try and line up the leader of the next mission, and gives spies more of a chance to push iffy teams without getting outed by town saying, "We'll do this team, but we'll reject it three times so that confirmed town can be next leader." More discussion and options like that are ALWAYS pro-town in a setup.

So, to sum up the options I'd suggest:

1. Remove plot powers.
2. Change plot powers to make them stronger for Spies.
3. Keep the game as is, and reduce the number of consecutive rejections from five to three before a default spy win.

As an aside, since I won't be starting my small til Feb since I gotta head out of town for work at the end of this month, I'd consider it a good option for a game for those who die in the current games when this starts up. I'm not firm on it yet, but it will be a completely open zero bastardry setup, with normal crazy roles that I'm fond of.
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Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby webby » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:18 am UTC

Lataro wrote:1. Remove plot powers.
2. Change plot powers to make them stronger for Spies.
3. Keep the game as is, and reduce the number of consecutive rejections from five to three before a default spy win.


Thanks for the suggestions.

I don't want to remove the plot powers, I think they make the game more interesting.

I'd considered the changing the consecutive rejections, the problem with it being only three is the chance that there will be three scum in a row on the player list is reasonably high, as is the chance that there are two scum in a list of three and scum also get a 'No Confidence' power, winning instantly either way. I may make it three anyway, but with the proviso that failure to submit a team leads to a random team, rather than a rejection. That way resistance will be reluctant to reject teams more than once if there's a 'No Confidence' or similar around, but it's not too easy for spies to win this way.

Another change I'd considered was keeping the game as is, but adding a spy to make the game 11 players instead of 10. That may be too drastic a change though - I think it would favour the spies too much.

The best option would probably be to add some more pro-spy powers. Maybe ones that make them appear resistance/accepted to investigations, or start the game with one godfather-type role. Also one power that allows choice of a player to have chat with.

I was never as convinced as you were that the game was massively unbalanced - spies did win the last one - but I do agree that spies have it tough as it stands.
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby Lataro » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:27 am UTC

My biggest problem with it has a setup, is it is designed, and reported, to work fairly well when played in person. On a forum though, more time exists to discuss, and it's far easier to go back and look over people's past actions, ect. This normally leads to a game that may be well balanced for in person play, to favor town rather heavily, primarily due to as I said, any time more tools and time exists for town players to analyze things and force scum to keep talking to be active, and such, they are FAR better able to work things out. I didn't follow the last game too closely, but from memory, I'm pretty sure very sloppy/lazy town play was involved heavily in that spy win.

I dunno, it's not my favorite setup to play, it has potential though IMO, it just needs to be twerked to be more favoring towards the spies for forum play, since as is, the format difference between in person and forum play gives town a decided advantage IMO.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby roband » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:49 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:
bantler wrote:This sub-forum devolved from a webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language. But it doesn’t show.
More romance needed!!!!


MORE romance? Gosh, I hope gojoe doesn't see this...
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby t1mm01994 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:32 pm UTC

Time for a couples game!

But in all seriousness: Can all in favor of investing time to make this forum flourish say Aye?


Aye.
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby roband » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

t1mm01994 wrote:Time for a couples game!


Ohmigod, if I could get my gf to play, I'd be up for that. Ha.

Erm, I'm an 'aye', but not at weekends :)
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby Vieto » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:40 pm UTC

roband wrote:
t1mm01994 wrote:Time for a couples game!


Ohmigod, if I could get my gf to play, I'd be up for that. Ha.

Erm, I'm an 'aye', but not at weekends :)


MORE romance demands a 3-somes game, no less.
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:17 am UTC

Mafia+Couples would be asking for disaster :p Although it would be funny to make it a "couples" game, where you must know the person in RL, you are automatically "lovers" and you can freely talk to them about the game in RL to them (but only them). However, you're not necessarily on the same team :D

Anyway. I say "Aye". I'll post a sign-up for the underworld game. I need to offically set down all the roles that have been bouncing around in my head. Someone experienced to look over the setup would be nice. I think that would give more confidence that a noob mod such as myself can handle such a crazy set-up.

Lataro wrote: I'm not firm on it yet, but it will be a completely open zero bastardry setup, with normal crazy roles that I'm fond of.
Boo! Down with open setups. Semi-closed at least. Open set-ups lead to great D1s but boring D3+. Semi-closed at least leaves some mystery. Ideally there should never be any 100% confirmed town.
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby mpolo » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:20 pm UTC

Aye.
Image <-- Evil experiment
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Re: Mafia New Year's Event - Planning / Discussion

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:42 am UTC

So, I kinda pooched this up a little bit. I didn't want to put my game into the queue until I got the mechanics hammered out and now I waited too long and Lataro took the spot I was going to. Oops.

However my game is kinda odd in that it won't take away from the player base for currently running games, so it theoretically shouldn't hurt to put it in signups right now.

Anyway theres three solutions I see:
1) I put my game in sign-ups not and run it anyway.
2) I wait until my offical turn and it won't be part of the Jan 15th "event" (which really wasn't much of an event anyways but whatever)
3) Lataro or RR move thier game to the turbo slot offically and I run my game which can't be a turbo because the pacing is dictated by the metapace.

I think #1 should be fine but I'd like permission from the current mods before doing that. GoP, Lataro, Infinia, and RR, any suggestions?
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