xkcd

by **thecommabandit** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:40 am UTC

Kag wrote:
Is Pritchard meant to be English?

No. He's from New Hampshire.

Good. It was only because I read some off-hand comment somewhere about "the English guy" or something. This is the problem with living in the UK: I'm so used to British accents that I don't bat an eye at them. But I'm also so used to American accents from TV, games and films that I don't notice them either, so I can never identify a British accent out of American ones in a game unless it's super-obvious or highly regional.

by **Red Rule** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:22 am UTC

Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:Is it worth the fifty dollars?

I was kinda disappointed after seeing people saying they beat it over the course of a week...

I beat it over the course fo a day and a half, but that doesn't say much: that's still about 24 hours of playtime, and I directly started a new game to get a few achievements (including pacifist -which is a lot of fun to do). I plan on this for most games, but can't get myself around to replaying the whole game, for Deus Ex I started immediatly so it's definatly value for money IMHO.

by **Swivelguy** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:24 pm UTC

After beating the game, I have decided that the following things are cheesy, make the game too easy, and I will not be using them on my 2nd playthrough:

- Takedowns (gotta conserve stun gun ammo, just like DX1)
- Cloaking
- The 10mm pistol
- The combat rifle
- Silenced firearms
- Buying praxis kits from shops (there's just far too many)
- Using the stun gun on bosses
- Putting a laser sight on the heavy rifle
- Changing turrets and robots to your side
- NOT visiting a limb clinic for a certain "upgrade" (I thought this really made the fight fun)
- Hacking: Stealth augs (seriously, I had 80 nuke/stop sitting around by the end of the game)
- And most importantly: saving the game. I play like I'm a real person and when I die, that's it. Deus Ex: Hardcore mode. I never load the game because I was trying to stealth/hack/whatever and got caught, that's just a cue to whip out the shotgun. If you think like you're not going to get a 2nd chance, you'll think twice about putting off that dermal armor upgrade, too

by **Kag** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:40 am UTC

Swivelguy wrote:gotta conserve stun gun ammo, just like DX1

What? If anything there's too much of it, since it's so easy to take down most enemies with the normal baton.

by **Swivelguy** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:17 pm UTC

I just mean it's finite. Whereas the takedowns in DX3 are infinite AND quieter than the stun gun, using a melee weapon in DX1 was either louder than the prod (crowbar/sword) or required using an aug to get 1-swing silent knockouts with the baton.

(I'm finding that DX3 actually has too much stun gun ammo, too, even when not using takedowns

)

by **EmptySet** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:27 pm UTC

Swivelguy wrote:I just mean it's finite. Whereas the takedowns in DX3 are infinite AND quieter than the stun gun, using a melee weapon in DX1 was either louder than the prod (crowbar/sword) or required using an aug to get 1-swing silent knockouts with the baton.

Wait, what? You don't need an aug to get one-hit knockouts with the baton, except against heavy targets like MIBs and Commandos. You just have to hit enemies in the right spot while they are unaware of you. Using the aug does make it easier, since it makes the aim a bit less fiddly, but even then you can flick it on just before you swing and it will barely use any power.

by **infernovia** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:30 pm UTC

And most importantly: saving the game. I play like I'm a real person and when I die, that's it. Deus Ex: Hardcore mode. I never load the game because I was trying to stealth/hack/whatever and got caught, that's just a cue to whip out the shotgun. If you think like you're not going to get a 2nd chance, you'll think twice about putting off that dermal armor upgrade, too

Can you setup a diary or something or at least update us with your current status/achievement?

by **Enokh** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:38 pm UTC

I don't think he's saying that he'll restart the game when he dies, but rather that he doesn't use loading saves as a way to constantly re-do things.

If someone WAS to do that. . man, that'd be crazy.

by **SlyReaper** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:41 pm UTC

Given that the game autosaves every three seconds or so, it's hardly a Herculean achievement to complete the game without manual saves.

by **infernovia** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:30 pm UTC

Maybe a save for the start of each level, and reload from that all the time? Also, what he said was "if I die, thats it," which I was taking to mean an ironman where dying means you are done for.

by **Jesse** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:01 pm UTC

Enokh wrote:I don't think he's saying that he'll restart the game when he dies, but rather that he doesn't use loading saves as a way to constantly re-do things.

If someone WAS to do that. . man, that'd be crazy.

That is exactly what he's doing. That's what 'Hardcore mode' means in gaming terms (I believe taken from Diablo 2, in which Hardcore difficulty meant character death was permanent).

by **Enokh** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:41 pm UTC

Well, holy crap. Would love some sort of blog/update thing, yeah.

by **Swivelguy** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:07 am UTC

I did get through the game with those restrictions, I think there were 4 deaths, but I might be forgetting some:

- I somehow fell off a fire escape on my first visit to Detroit. Whoops.
- I had to take 2 tries at Barrett, I died to a grenade I didn't notice him throwing.
- At Picus, I got killed through some glass that I didn't realize wasn't bulletproof.
- I got surrounded and obliterated when I failed at sneaking through the Omega Ranch.

I didn't play true hardcore and start the game over when I died, but I tried to play as if I'd have to, rolling with the punches and doing what I could to survive, rather than just saying "oops, they caught me, F8."

The thing that makes this possible is abusing cover. You can sit behind some dinky little box while a dozen bad guys spend a thousand rounds at you, line up a revolver headshot while in cover, pop out, take the shot, take some damage, pop back into cover, and regen your health while they waste another thousand rounds at you.

So I've decided to add the following for my third playthrough (if I bother):
- No weapon upgrades whatsoever, of any type
- I've unbound the cover key
- I got the debug mod and have used it to disable health regen!
- Only using the stun gun on guys who haven't seen you (otherwise it's too easy to knock out Heavies with it)
- No hacking of personal (email) computers. I'm mostly too impatient to do them all, so I made it a rule
- No collecting enemy mines. Disarming them is okay, but no taking them.

I'm just now entering highland park with those restrictions... with 8 stun gun darts left. eek. Would people actually be interested in a blog or updates of some form?

by **infernovia** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:02 pm UTC

The thing that makes this possible is abusing cover. You can sit behind some dinky little box while a dozen bad guys spend a thousand rounds at you, line up a revolver headshot while in cover, pop out, take the shot, take some damage, pop back into cover, and regen your health while they waste another thousand rounds at you.

Yeah, this sucks. Also, are you playing on Hard mode on top of this?

Anyway, yeah, I would be interested in a blog/update. It would be super awesome if you could do an actual no-death run, even though this is kind of asking for a lot, especially that now you don't have vision while hiding.

by **SecondTalon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:33 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:
Enokh wrote:I don't think he's saying that he'll restart the game when he dies, but rather that he doesn't use loading saves as a way to constantly re-do things. If someone WAS to do that. . man, that'd be crazy.
That is exactly what he's doing. That's what 'Hardcore mode' means in gaming terms (I believe taken from Diablo 2, in which Hardcore difficulty meant character death was permanent).

I know the concept predates Diablo 2 by a number of.. well, decades, but yes. Used to be called Iron Man.. dunno why Hardcore has somehow won out over goddamn IRON MAN, but there you go. Perma-death runs add a whole different fun to the game, and make even minor firefights stressfull. Hell, I played Red Faction : Guerrilla like that once. On easy, yes, but it's remarkable how much more difficult the game is when you can't Suicide-bomb enemy checkpoints.

Ended up dying when a building I was just dicking around with collapsed on top of me.

by **Enokh** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:16 pm UTC

Yeah, I was assuming that Hardcore mode was just short for "Whatever the hardest difficulty setting for this game is", since games have taken to naming the difficulty levels unique things.

And yes, Iron Man is a WAY cooler name.

by **Dark567** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:46 pm UTC

In the original X-Wing the only way you could play was Iron man. If you died it automatically marked your save game as (Dead) and it would only let you replay old missions.

Damn that game was hard.

by **Swivelguy** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:57 pm UTC

In diablo 2, hardcore meant that when your character dies, it's dead. Iron man was generally taken to mean that you don't use any of the town services (except perhaps once at the beginning of each act), returning to town only when the plot absolutely requires it. You have to be very efficient to do that with a melee character, as your stuff will break and you'll have to throw it away.

I think I may livestream (or just record) and add some commentary to my next run. The official rules will probably be this:

Spoiler:

by **Blatm** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:41 pm UTC

Swivelguy wrote:I think I may livestream (or just record) and add some commentary to my next run. The official rules will probably be this:

Spoiler:
Iron man rules: the game may only be reloaded from a save at the start of each major mission or hub segment. The goal is to minimize the total number of reloads. The game may also be saved and loaded whenever stopping play (not included in the total)

Challenge rules:
Give me Deus Ex difficulty
No health regen (disabled via debug-menu mod)
No takedowns
No cloaking
No using the cover button
Only use the stun gun on unaware enemies
No laser sights, silencers, or "special" weapon upgrades
No using any of the preorder items
No buying praxis kits from shops
No hacking of personal (email) computers
No collecting of enemy mines
No changing turrets/robots to your side

Sounds awesome. Where can we find your stream/recordings and can you give us an idea of when you'll be streaming/putting up the recordings?

by **psion** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:27 am UTC

I'm not even sure that's possible. Well, it is, but god damn.

by **Swivelguy** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:47 am UTC

I'm starting now at http://www.justin.tv/cosmicosmo !

edit: scratch that. starting as soon as I can figure out how to stream in a reduced resolution so I get more than 12 fps.

Ok, I don't think streaming is going to work, still getting dips down to 15 fps at 1280x800, which is also stretching, because it seems like my 1080p monitor should run in 720p, not 1280x800... but for some reason it doesn't.

So I'm going to try just frapsing and uploading.

by **infernovia** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:38 am UTC

Whatever you are doing, let us know when its up. It would be cool to have commentary but obviously we are just along for the ride so it will be pleasing anyway.

by **Swivelguy** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:14 am UTC

Okay, segment 1 of my ironman run is up now at http://www.youtube.com/user/cosmicosmo4

Unfortunately it is somewhat boring, as nothing really went wrong (unless you count almost dying in the prologue). Segment 2 is encoding now and will get uploaded overnight, so check for it tomorrow. It's considerably more entertaining (I die once...to the cops on the Detroit streets) with a lot more shooting.

Edit: segment 2 is now up, and upon watching it, I discovered that I screwed up: health regen is on in it (/facepalm). Apparently that setting isn't saved between reloads of the game.

by **AnamArtin** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:17 pm UTC

- Only using the stun gun on guys who haven't seen you (otherwise it's too easy to knock out Heavies with it)

how could that be possible? i mean using stun gun without the assailant noticing? while you can only use stungun through approAching..

________________________________________________________________
The man who survived stun gun and pepper spray is now a seasoned veteran.

by **Swivelguy** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:10 pm UTC

I've switched to streaming my ironman attempts at http://www.twitch.tv/cosmicosmo

I haven't been doing commentary, but if I start getting some viewers when streaming live I will (hint hint

).

My best one so far (attempt 2) got me up to the funicular with 0 deaths, where I died a slow death by running out of health consumables.

by **Swivelguy** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:31 am UTC

Alright, I finished the game with:

- Tell me a story difficulty
- No health regen
- No reloading the game except for 1 death*
- No takedowns
- No cloaking
- No cover button
- No silencers, lasers, or special weapon upgrades
- No purchased praxis kits

It was actually not that hard, and got easier after the TYM penthouse, roughly. I ended the game with about 10 painkillers and 10 hypostims. I played mostly in a kill-everyone style, using stealth for small parts wherever handy. Although full-stealth-mode would theoretically preserve health better, it's risky, as if you get caught you often get caught surrounded with no good cover to run to. I would say this is definitely doable on Give me a Challenge, you would just have to be very careful early on, until dermal armor is maxed out. Doing this challenge on Give me Deus Ex would likely just force you to stealth the whole game, as you'll simply die too fast if you try to engage in any amount of gunfighting.

*My one death was outside the entrance to Tong's parking garage, in which I learned that Harvesters wearing sweatshirts and welding masks are not to be messed with, because the welding mask will withstand half a dozen shotgun blasts to the face, and the sweatshirt is apparently made of welding masks.

Something I noted along the way is that health consumables act funny. Each one has a value associated with it (I'll call it H).
Painkillers: 25
Hypostims: 50
Beer: 5
Wine/spirits: 10
Vodka: 20 (I think)
Whiskey: 25

If you current health is 100 or higher, the consumable heals for H. If you current health is equal to or less than (100-2*H) then it heals for 2*H. If your current health is greater than (100-2*H) but less than 100, then your health is set to 100+H. So, taking painkillers for example. If your health is 50 or below you get healed for 50. If you're at 51, however, your health gets set to 125, a total healing of 74 points.

This makes it hard to choose when to use your health consumables, because you can get more value out of them by saving them until you're low on health, but intentionally leaving your health low creates a risk that you'll get surprised by a hostile and die before getting a chance to take them. This constant choice makes a no-health-regen run pretty interesting.

by **SirBryghtside** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:40 pm UTC

I'm looking to buy this, but I have a question before I start:

What's the difference between the Standard and Limited Editions? I'm asking because the limited edition, while it originally sounded like the better version, is... cheaper.

Huh?

by **EdgarJPublius** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:23 am UTC

The Augmented edition includes some extras (arts books and what not I think) and the launch DLC which adds a few weapons, starting cash and an extra mission.

I got the standard edition and don't feel like I missed anything, but if you can find the augmented edition cheaper then go for it.

by **AvatarIII** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:48 am UTC

get the best version you can for the money, everything that came with the limited edition and augmented edition is available to download as a paid extra anyway, on the PSN store the Limited edition upgrade (includes an extra side mission, access to a grenade launcher, and the existence of automatic unlocking devices, and plastic explosives throughout the game) is £1.99 and the Augmented edition upgrade (which includes everything that was in the ltd edition, plus a sniper rifle and 10k credits) is £2.39, I have no idea how much it is in other countries or on other systems though. although I believe the real Augmented Edition came with an art book and making of DVD.

I actually regret getting the Limited Edition for £17.99 now, as at the time the standard edition was only £14.99, and then I could have upgraded to the Augmented Edition for cheaper than i paid, but oh well, not like I need a sniper rifle when I generally don't kill, and though 10k credits would come in handy, it's not worth £2.40

by **SirBryghtside** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:52 pm UTC

Thanks guys, think I'll be getting the LE then. Just a bit confusing.

Buying my graphics card soon too, should be awesome... I liked the first one, and after watching the trailer I'm really starting to think this is a HL1 ---> 2 transition (enjoyed the first, loved the second).

by **mister k** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:52 pm UTC

The game has some amusing features. While its pretty rare to be in a position where you can't kill someon you want to kill (the game puts your weapons away in hubs with allies), there is a moment when

Spoiler:

by **AvatarIII** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:35 pm UTC

talking of putting away stuff for safe keeping, does stuff dropped by you stay there indefinitely even if you leave and return to a city? I am in a constant battle against the size of my inventory, if possible I won't kill, so my tranq' rifle and stun gun are important to me, but I also don't want to lose my almost fully upgraded combat rifle and pistol that I hold onto for the sake of upgrading, and as a back up if I really must kill or go up against a boss.

by **mr-mitch** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:19 pm UTC

AvatarIII wrote:talking of putting away stuff for safe keeping, does stuff dropped by you stay there indefinitely even if you leave and return to a city? I am in a constant battle against the size of my inventory, if possible I won't kill, so my tranq' rifle and stun gun are important to me, but I also don't want to lose my almost fully upgraded combat rifle and pistol that I hold onto for the sake of upgrading, and as a back up if I really must kill or go up against a boss.

I'm fairly certain this is the case, but I've only tried it with the compartment behind the tv. I remember on one of the playthroughs I used the debug menu, so this may not actually work, but I left combat rifle ammo in the elevator and it remained there throughout the game.

by **AvatarIII** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:49 pm UTC

oh cool, thanks, i might experiment with some ammo just to be sure.

by **SirBryghtside** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:13 pm UTC

Yeah, this game's a LOT of fun. Really different to the first, but somehow exactly the same.

Spoiler:

Stopped briefly because New Year is in about 45 minutes, don't want to miss that.

by **pseudoidiot** » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:42 pm UTC

Been playing this over the last few weeks a couple hours or so here & there. I'm at around 30 hours at this point, and I think I'm approaching the 3rd boss fight.

So, I think most people would agree the boss fights are kind of annoying, especially if you're focusing on a stealthy playthrough. There I am having all sorts of fun sneaking around, hacking everything, and knocking dudes out (I like trying to knock out as many guards as I can even if I can easily get past them), when suddenly I'm dropped into an enclosed space and I have to fight my way out. It sucks, but at least there's not too many moments like that and the fights aren't that hard. They break the flow of the game more than anything, I think.

Then I started thinking about some other tense situations in the game that I think could almost be considered boss fights and are a lot better than the actual ones in a lot of ways.

1: (somewhere between the first & second boss fight, I forget exactly where)

Spoiler:

2: In the Alice Pods of Hengsha

Spoiler:

3: At the end of the TYM mission:

Spoiler:

4: On returning to Hengsha:

Spoiler:

I would have rather seen more things like that than the boss fights that are in there now. I found them way more fun and satisfying (especially #4).

Also, I missed if it got mentioned, but there was some talk about some of the lampshading the game does. I remember one part when I was sneaking around a building through some air ducts and two guards are talking and say something like "What about the air ducts?" "Are you kidding? Look at the size of them, are you worried about a contortionist midget sneaking in?"

Oh, and Jensen needs to learn how to look at a monitor and type while crouched down.

by **Will** » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:17 pm UTC

FYI for the boss fights, especially if you're doing a stealth playthrough--the Typhoon is basically easy mode for the boss fights. It doesn't make them not fucking stupid, but at the cost of a couple of praxis points you have a way to get past them fairly easily. I wish I had known that the first time I played through the game, though >_<

by **pseudoidiot** » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:56 pm UTC

Yeah, I've started to gather that. At this point I've pretty well got all the augs that I really care about having, so now I'm just adding stuff as they sound interesting. Can't remember whether I've added Typhoon yet or not. I know I finally picked up some ammo for it in preparation of opening it up.

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