xkcd

by **joshz** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:05 am UTC

Awesome! I hope you end up coming here!

Are you planning on coming to any sleeping bag weekends?

by **Aaeriele** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:28 am UTC

yay, welcome to you both matilda and sambot5!

by **animeHrmIne** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:17 am UTC

Sambot5, I think you're describing your sexuality like I would describe mine, though I play it the opposite way in public (I tend to act hypersexual). I identify as pansexual, which basically means that some weeks I'm more attracted to female-presenting people, and some weeks I'm attracted to male-presenting people, and some weeks I'm attracted to all presentations, and some weeks I'm not sexually attracted to anyone at all.

Really, like others have said, sexuality can be a fluid thing. It doesn't exist in a gay/straight dichotomy. From what you're describing, it sounds like you might be bisexual, if only slightly one way or the other.

Also, the prom thing is freaking me out too, though I've given up on finding a girl to ask between now and then. I'm more worried because I plan on asking one of two guy friends (which one, I don't know), which could be awkward just because most guys aren't used to girls asking them out.

by **Monika** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:23 am UTC

Sambot5, you could also go to the prom alone. A lot of people did that at my US high school. Me, too. I had asked one of the male exchange students. We were not together or anything, it would just have given him the chance to go because I was a senior and he a junior. But he felt proms are a waste of money - and he would have just had to rent a tuxedo, not buy a dress like me.

by **felltir** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:43 am UTC

Just an update from me: I've found another girl I like! Also, she wants to sleep with me! These are good things.

by **Aaeriele** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:44 am UTC

felltir wrote:Just an update from me: I've found another girl I like! Also, she wants to sleep with me! These are good things.

yay!

by **sambot5** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:49 pm UTC

[deleted for IRL safety reasons]

by **joshz** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:04 pm UTC

sambot5 wrote:joshz: Unfortunately, I'm really busy and don't think I'll be able to attend a sleeping bag weekend. However, I did visit the campus during my spring break last year and I really enjoyed it. I especially liked the new CS building with it's large spiral walkway in the center.

Aww, that's a shame. That was part of what sold me on coming here. If you can squeeze out the time, I'd really recommend it. I might even be able to host you!

Hehehehe, oh, the helix. Yeah, that's cool the first time you go down it but totally impractical for actual use.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about CMU. I'd love to help!

by **Vaniver** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:55 pm UTC

sambot5 wrote:(it’s not like I could just say “hey man, I might like dudes, but I don’t know for sure.”).

Why not?

sambot5 wrote:My parents aren’t really encouraging of being gay, and after my brother came out, they’re “depending” on me to get married and have children (whether I end up marrying a man or a woman, I still want to have children).

It sounds like you and they agree on the grandkids issue; leading off with that if/when you need to update them on your sexuality should help things go more smoothly.

sambot5 wrote:and the only person I’d secretly want to ask is the guy I have a crush on (but that would never happen, besides, I don’t even know if he’s into guys).

You only go through high school once. What memories do you want to look back on?

by **dragon** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:21 am UTC

I'm a bit concerned that if this is your first exposure to the concept of pansexual orientation, you may well be reading animeHrmIne's post as an explanation of the term, rather than as a description of her sexuality in particular.

The biggest thing is that pansexuality is a rejection of strictly targeted attraction towards Male and Female. There are many people who do not fall into such narrow binary gender boxes. The term pansexual (as opposed to bisexual) is deliberately inclusive of genderqueer people.

My apologies if this is already something you are quite aware of. I'm worried that if you are someone who is discomforted by non-binary gender, taking the label pansexual could cause hurt to you or others in future.

Wikipedia wrote:The concept of pansexuality deliberately rejects the gender binary, the "notion of two genders and indeed of specific sexual orientations", as pansexual people are open to relationships with people who do not identify as strictly men or women. Pansexuality can also mean the attraction to a person's personality, rather than their physical appearance or gender.

by **RollingHead** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:47 am UTC

I just spent the evening arguing with a friend who insists that a woman who sleeps with a woman is still a virgin because she didn't sleep with a man... and I wanted to go to bed early (in my time zone it's nearly two in the morning)... Sorry about the rant, I'm just upset about it.

by **sambot5** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:23 am UTC

[deleted for IRL safety reasons]

by **joshz** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:39 am UTC

sambot5 wrote:It's like, I don't feel 'gay' enough that another guy would ever want to date me, and I don't feel 'straight' enough that another girl would want to date me. I just feel lonely and that there's no one to talk about it amongst my friends and family

That really doesn't matter. I'm pan, and currently have a boyfriend and have had a girlfriend. They quite likely won't care at all.

sambot5 wrote:I like watching those "it gets better" videos because they make me feel better, but I never feel like I'm their target audience because they almost all start with someone saying "I new I was gay/lesbian/homosexual since I was age [a very young age]..." I wasn't like that at all! I just started noticing my attraction towards the same gender during my sophomore year, and it wasn't until midway through last year that I actually acknowledged those feelings to myself. I've been super lucky to not have been harassed or bullied in school, and I feel so bad for the kids who are. Instead, I just wage this silent war with myself that I don't tell anyone about. I don't feel like I've experienced the adversity that others struggling with their sexuality have, I just feel sad and lonely.

This seems very similar to my experience. The earliest I could possibly trace my attraction to men to is 8th grade, but that's a stretch. I didn't acknowledge the feelings until probably the summer before my senior year. I fought them before then in increasingly ridiculous ways, trying to convince myself that I actually was straight. It did more harm than good for me.

I wasn't harassed or bullied about my sexuality to any degree that I can remember now, but still feel somewhat paranoid that someone will do so, and so am still unduly nervous about coming out to people.

But I can promise you that it does get better. It gets so much fucking better. I'm in a community now that doesn't bat an eyelash at two men cuddling in a public compter cluster (beyond saying that we're adorable, or one of *those* couples [which admittedly we kind of are <_< >_>]), and feel truly accepted and wonderful. It's an amazing feeling, and it's so much better than high school.

by **Cathy** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:46 am UTC

sambot5 wrote:I like watching those "it gets better" videos because they make me feel better, but I never feel like I'm their target audience because they almost all start with someone saying "I new I was gay/lesbian/homosexual since I was age [a very young age]..." I wasn't like that at all! I just started noticing my attraction towards the same gender during my sophomore year, and it wasn't until midway through last year that I actually acknowledged those feelings to myself.

I never felt that way myself either - I didn't look like anything but the average kid until about 11 and then hormones popped up and I started liking both genders. I personally feel that a lot of that is personal hindsight bias. But then, I might be biased too!

I don't think it matters when you realized it - how many people worry about consciously realizing that they're straight? I don't think it's something to worry over.

And this.

joshz wrote:But I can promise you that it does get better. It gets so much fucking better.

Oh, edited to add that when I came out as bisexual at 13, freshman year in high school, I dated a girl for 2 years, a guy for 2 years, and another girl for two years. The people who rejected me for dating someone of the same sex either got over it or moved out of my personal sphere. It happens, and you can lose people you didn't think you'd lose, but the people who stick with you are all the stronger friends for it.

by **sambot5** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:48 am UTC

joshz wrote:I wasn't harassed or bullied about my sexuality to any degree that I can remember now, but still feel somewhat paranoid that someone will do so, and so am still unduly nervous about coming out to people.

Me too!

joshz wrote:But I can promise you that it does get better. It gets so much fucking better. I'm in a community now that doesn't bat an eyelash at two men cuddling in a public computer cluster (beyond saying that we're adorable, or one of *those* couples [which admittedly we kind of are <_< >_>]), and feel truly accepted and wonderful. It's an amazing feeling, and it's so much better than high school.

This makes me feel better

by **joshz** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:08 am UTC

sambot5 wrote:
joshz wrote:But I can promise you that it does get better. It gets so much fucking better. I'm in a community now that doesn't bat an eyelash at two men cuddling in a public computer cluster (beyond saying that we're adorable, or one of *those* couples [which admittedly we kind of are <_< >_>]), and feel truly accepted and wonderful. It's an amazing feeling, and it's so much better than high school.
This makes me feel better

I'm glad!

Also, feel free to PM or ask in here if you have any questions about CMU or sexuality/related things.

by **sambot5** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:06 am UTC

Thank you all for replying and helping me feel better!

In less angsty news, I found the following Seinfeld montage hilarious (it's from the "Not that there is anything wrong with that" episode):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZPcGapl2dM

by **Vaniver** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:23 am UTC

sambot5 wrote:I probably should talk to my friends about my sexuality, but I've always had problems with self-confidence and I'm worried that it would make for an awkward conversation. Also, I don't really talk about personal stuff to them that often, so I don't know how to bring up the topic.

"Hey, can we talk about something personal? It'll probably be really awkward. Saying no is okay." [It helps to mean the last part.]

sambot5 wrote:I don't know how to explain it to them. Also, what if this is just a phase and I turn out to be totally gay or totally straight? It's like, I don't feel 'gay' enough that another guy would ever want to date me, and I don't feel 'straight' enough that another girl would want to date me. I just feel lonely and that there's no one to talk about it amongst my friends and family.

"I'm attracted to both guys and girls now. I'm not sure if it'll settle one way or the other or if I'll stay flexible." [You may find a word besides 'flexible' to be more appropriate.]

Sexuality doesn't have to be part of your identity; it's not a major in college that you have to officially choose and then put in a form to change. If you're unsure about it, you're unsure about it, and you might as well present yourself that way.

As for what guys and girls are into- I think you'd be surprised at the variety of desires. I also expect that every gay guy has a story about the straight guy(s) he crushed on: you hardly have to be gay to receive male interest.

sambot5 wrote:I like watching those "it gets better" videos because they make me feel better, but I never feel like I'm their target audience

Emphasis mine. It's for you.

sambot5 wrote:Instead, I just wage this silent war with myself that I don't tell anyone about. I don't feel like I've experienced the adversity that others struggling with their sexuality have, I just feel sad and lonely.

Why compare adversity? Focus on your sadness and loneliness as what they are, not what they are in relation to others.

by **Aaeriele** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:57 am UTC

RollingHead wrote:I just spent the evening arguing with a friend who insists that a woman who sleeps with a woman is still a virgin because she didn't sleep with a man... and I wanted to go to bed early (in my time zone it's nearly two in the morning)... Sorry about the rant, I'm just upset about it.

*hug* Sorry you had to deal with that.

by **FreyasSpirit** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:18 pm UTC

I got my hormones! I actually got them Wednesday, but didn't take any until yesterday because last week was fairly stressful thanks to school. I'm nervous and my mind is swimming with "what if" questions and wanting me to doubt myself. I know this is the right decision, but my brain just doesn't want me to believe it so easily. Over Thanksgiving break, I had a dream where someone I met at work over summer and who recently had srs decided to detransition. It was unnerving when I woke up, but it faded and I'd more or less forgotten about it until now. It's a combination of new stress (I just realized grad school apps need to be done really, really soon) and me still doubting myself. I know these doubts are normal and any sane person would have them, but they still bother me.

On a related note, when should I expect emotional changes to start from the hormones?

by **Brace** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:55 pm UTC

They're liable to happen relatively quickly. It's really more a matter of if/when you notice them. For me it took almost a year before I could look at myself and note any kind of change (although that might of just been the fact I was on a completely insufficient dose for almost a year and a half-insufficient dose for half a year after... =/). Emotional changes are weird. It probably helps to have a background in philosophy when dealing with them. I have to say my personality has remained p much exactly the same though, which might be unfortunate depending on your perspective.

by **Josephine** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:17 pm UTC

I noticed it within a day. If your dosage is right, and you're not in a work-up period, you'll probably know.

by **Monika** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:51 pm UTC

sambot5 wrote:I like watching those "it gets better" videos because they make me feel better, but I never feel like I'm their target audience because they almost all start with someone saying "I new I was gay/lesbian/homosexual since I was age [a very young age]..." I wasn't like that at all! I just started noticing my attraction towards the same gender during my sophomore year, and it wasn't until midway through last year that I actually acknowledged those feelings to myself.

I have not seen any of those videos. How young do the people say they were? It would be strange if it were before entering puberty. And even knowing right from the onset of puberty would be rare.

I don't remember exactly when I noticed that I am apparently most likely not straight. I think I was 17. Acknowledge the feelings and act on them? 30. With the help of some friends

.

In terms of telling my parents, I'm not looking forward to it at all. To them, people are either gay or straight, and considering the fact that I don't really fit into either category, I don't know how to explain it to them.

Tell them that you are bisexual. That's what I tell hetero people, even though "somewhere between pan- and asexual" would be more correct. I don't want to confuse them with details :wink:

.

Also, what if this is just a phase and I turn out to be totally gay or totally straight? It's like, I don't feel 'gay' enough that another guy would ever want to date me, and I don't feel 'straight' enough that another girl would want to date me.

You could date other bi people.
But most gay guys and straight girls probably don't care too much. If you happen to meet one who refuses to date bi, pan, queer, fluid people - oh well, that's not nice, but find someone else who is not so restricted.

I just feel lonely and that there's no one to talk about it amongst my friends and family.

*hugs*

by **Jessica** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:53 pm UTC

Trans Latino/a Discrimination Report Released

by **FreyasSpirit** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:37 am UTC

Josephine wrote:I noticed it within a day. If your dosage is right, and you're not in a work-up period, you'll probably know.

Hm. I'm on 2mg estradiol, 25mg spiro and I really haven't noticed anything yet. Maybe it's just that I haven't noticed it yet.

by **Josephine** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:51 am UTC

I'm on 4mg estradiol, 200mg spiro. so, yeah.

by **Wyvern** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:54 am UTC

FreyasSpirit wrote:
Josephine wrote:I noticed it within a day. If your dosage is right, and you're not in a work-up period, you'll probably know.

Hm. I'm on 2mg estradiol, 25mg spiro and I really haven't noticed anything yet. Maybe it's just that I haven't noticed it yet.

That's a really low dose of spiro. I'm at 200mg of spiro a day and have been there since I started.

like, really low. I've heard of people taking up to 400mg a day.

by **Brace** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:04 am UTC

I would be at 400 a day if I were on Spiro. 4mg estradiol is also a much more common dose.

by **Shivahn** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:39 am UTC

I'm going to my first actual LGBTQ meeting thingy ever at a center near me tomorrow. I'm nervous as fuck, and afraid everyone's going to hate me. It's a small group, and everyone I've talked to who goes sounds awesome, so I'm... nervous over nothing, I know. But being naturally shy+really unsure of myself makes it nerve-wracking. I really wish I'd done more stuff like this in college.

by **FreyasSpirit** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:43 am UTC

Wyvern wrote:
FreyasSpirit wrote:
Josephine wrote:I noticed it within a day. If your dosage is right, and you're not in a work-up period, you'll probably know.

Hm. I'm on 2mg estradiol, 25mg spiro and I really haven't noticed anything yet. Maybe it's just that I haven't noticed it yet.

That's a really low dose of spiro. I'm at 200mg of spiro a day and have been there since I started.

like, really low. I've heard of people taking up to 400mg a day.

He was considering putting me on an e only regiment, then asked if I'd like spiro too. I think the doctor had the intention of seeing the effects on just e.

by **poxic** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:50 am UTC

Shivahn wrote:I really wish I'd done more stuff like this in college.

And the next-best time to learn is now. <3

It's like ... tearing off a mask, to go to this kind of meeting. It hurts, if the mask has been there for a long time. You feel the cold, fresh air, not on your face but on your heart. And it's like learning to walk again. And you can do it, because you've done it before. Not the same skills, not the same way of learning, but it's still just learning your way again. You've done that before, and you will many, many more times. If you're lucky, and willing.

<3

by **natashatasha** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:00 am UTC

Promised myself I'd tell Father I'm transsexual next time I spoke to him.

He phoned today.

I didn't.

Again.

by **PM 2Ring** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:54 am UTC

Monika wrote:Tell them that you are bisexual. That's what I tell hetero people, even though "somewhere between pan- and asexual" would be more correct. I don't want to confuse them with details .

Wise. The odds are that they'd misunderstand the details (or not be able to comprehend them), anyway.

natashatasha wrote:Promised myself I'd tell Father I'm transsexual next time I spoke to him.

He phoned today.
I didn't.
Again.

Oh, well. Don't be hard on yourself over that. Maybe it'd be easier to do it in a letter. Or in person, with your mother present (since she already knows). Perhaps you just need more practice in coming out to people. How many people know now? Have you told any other relatives apart from your mother?

by **FreyasSpirit** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:04 pm UTC

PM 2Ring wrote:
natashatasha wrote:Promised myself I'd tell Father I'm transsexual next time I spoke to him.

He phoned today.
I didn't.
Again.

Oh, well. Don't be hard on yourself over that. Maybe it'd be easier to do it in a letter. Or in person, with your mother present (since she already knows). Perhaps you just need more practice in coming out to people. How many people know now? Have you told any other relatives apart from your mother?

Seconded on the letter idea. I personally see no difference between telling someone in person or writing them a letter or email. Either way, they're going to sit down and talk to you, the difference is that with a letter, the talk happens when they're ready rather than when you're ready. Personally, I think it's better to give him time to process it before you try to talk to him about it.

by **natashatasha** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:08 pm UTC

I'd send him an e-mail, but he never checks them. I suppose I could send him one and text him to check, but chances are he'd phone me back immediately, and I'm really nervous about it as it is. I don't think he'll be anything but accepting of me, I know he loves me deeply, but every time I've brought up anything relating to trans-rights he's been rather disparaging and dismissive. I've promised myself it will get done by Christmas, because I would really like to start hormones next year, but every time I try I just fail.

As for coming out to people, I've told all my friends bar two, one of whom will be moving to the US next year, and most people online either know me as a transwoman or just as a woman. My mother is the only relative I've told, which means I still need to tell my brother and father. I don't intend to tell my Oma and Opa, who live three doors down from us, until as late as possible.

I suppose as you both suggest an e-mail would be best, but I just can't drag myself to write it.

by **Jessica** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:44 pm UTC

My HRT regiment is 1.875mg C.E.S. (conjugated estrogens), and 300mg Spironolactone.

I always wondering what the difference was between my CES and others Estradiol. I tried looking it up just now, and I'm still having problems understanding the difference.

by **Van** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:01 pm UTC

Conjugated estrogens means estrone sulfate/Premarin/etc. Your body then breaks that down into Estradiol.

Estradiol is the other major thing people take, and is bio identical, which is a fancy way of saying it's identical to estrogens produced in humans and the body can use it directly.

(IANAD)

by **Jessica** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:09 pm UTC

hmmm, ok.

I wish there was a good way to compare Estradiol doses to CES doses...

by **Van** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:53 pm UTC

According to some research I did on my own meds a while back via like, drugs.com or the miracle whip clinic or something, equal doses of Premarin and Estradiol are considered equivalent. At least, when used in vaginal creams for menopausal HRT.

I have no idea if that transfers neatly to pills or not.

by **Jessica** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:06 pm UTC

Ah, cool!
I wonder if I'm lower than most other people then...

Who is online