Secret Santa 2011 - Game Over: Mistletoe and Wine

[Misnomer]

Ho ho ho, it's that time of year again folks! It is the season for sharing and giving, and by that I do of course mean killing and lynching. Yes, the quiet old town of Xkcdia is once again under assault from the forces of evil. But with the holiday season having driven the townspeople even nuttier than usual, can Xkcdia be defended? And more importantly, can Christmas be saved?

Welcome everyone to Secret Santa Mafia 2011! Your roles will be going out shortly - in the meantime, please take the opportunity to read over the information in this post.

Standard Mafia Rules (read them, they're good for you)

Spoiler:

Rules:
1. Do not talk about the game outside this thread.
2. DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE GAME OUTSIDE THIS THREAD.
3. Please stay on topic.
4. Don't lurk through the whole game; if you need to drop out, TELL ME. Really bad lurkers risk MODKILL
5. If you aren't part of the game, please post in a separate, forbidden to players, thread for outside analysis.
6. Once I say that it's nighttime, do not post in the thread
7. If you die, don't say anything for the rest of the game except a simple, "Bah, you got me," which reveals no information.
8. You may not post verbatim or quote from your role PM. Paraphrasing is fine.
9. You may not edit your posts. This is to preempt the possibility of cheating by sending messages to other people and then editing them out.

Specific Game Rules
- This is a nightless game. All actions should be sent in BEFORE the end of the game day.
- I will usually give a deadline for the day, indicating when I am likely to call night. Until I actually call night, however, you are free to keep posting.
- Everyone has sent in a role, which has randomly been distributed to another player.
- Changes have been made to some of the roles for the sake of balance, playbility etc.
- PTP games are boring if everybody claims what they sent in. Therefore, if you claim or confirm any details of your sent role, you will lose your vote for that day (nb: your vote will still show up in votals, it just won't be counted). There is no penalty for falseclaiming.
- This game has one town faction. The town faction wins when all anti-town factions are eliminated.
- This game has at least one anti-town faction. Anti-town factions win when town and all rival anti-town factions are defeated.
- There is no cult. Other recruiting roles may be present, however.

Players:

Alive players:

2. AngrySquirrel -
5. mpolo -
12. webby

Dead Players:
4. b.i.o - Killed N4 - The Ghost of Christmas Past, Town
3. GopherofPern - Lynched D4 - Militant Atheist, member of XMAS, Scum
1.Vieto / t1mm01994 - Killed N3 - The Lovestruck Christmas Lunatic, Town
7. ForAllOfThis - Lynched D3 - Robot Santa, member of XMAS, Scum
6. ConMan - Killed N2 - Action Hero, Town
8. roband - Killed N2 - Sylar, Serial Killer
9. Adam H - Lynched D2 - The Littlest Elf that Could, Town
10. tastelikecoke - Killed N2 - The Precocious Christmas Pageant Actor, Town
11. BoomFrog - lynched D1 - The Stressed Father, Town

[Misnomer]

All roles have now been sent out! if you haven't got one (or have somehow ended up with more than one), contact me urgently



Old Man Winter stood on the balcony of his northern stronghold. Down below lay the quiet little town of Xkcdia. Taking out his binoculars, he watched the townsfolk gather by the giant tree in the town square. They all appeared to be placing presents under it, and picking up ones for themselves.

"Bah" he muttered to himself, putting his binoculars to one side, "It must be nearly Christmas again."

Only, it didn't feel much like Christmas, he thought. There was something lacking about it... some vital elelement was missing. He couldn't quite put his finger on it.

At that moment his thoughts were broken by the sound of distant screaming. Grabbing his binoculars again, he peered down at the town square. It was hard to make out what exactly was going on, but he gathered that the mayor's body had been found inside one of the larger presents under the tree. Some things never change.

Sighing, Old Man Winter returned indoors to pour himself a large whisky. Down in the town square, the good folk of Xkcdia were readying themselves for a lynch...

It is now Day 1. 12 players in the game, so 7 to lynch - assuming that nobody claims their sent role. Deadline provisionally set for 4pm GMT, Saturday 17th December.

Good luck everybody!

[ForAllOfThis]

First post and all. I'll start off with mafia speculation size. Typically a three scum faction with some indies is the standard template for a 12 person mafia so that's my best guess. With it being a PTP though a four scum faction wouldn't be out of the question, if we've given each other really powerful town roles or two, two-scum factions, if scum have been dealt some powerful roles compared to us.

[Vieto]

On the first day of christmas, my true love gave to me... a dead mayor under a christmas tree.

But yeah. Assuming there is only 1 faction, a 3-4 mafia is definitely reasonable. Also, I wouldn't surprised if a number of the roles don't do actions directly, but instead give actions to other players (such as 'gifting' someone a doctor or night-kill).

[ForAllOfThis]

Mod: Is it possible that more than one of the same role/role name is present in this game (e.g. Santa)?

The whole Santa/Fake Santa was a pretty big discussion point in the last game as well. If I am offered an in-game gift, I will want to know who sent it before I choose to open/accept it. Helps keep wine on the minimum.

[Misnomer]

No two roles or role names are exactly identical.

[tastelikecoke]

It's Secret Santa! I hope I can stay active in this turbo game since Christmas is full of real life events.

I wouldn't surprised if a number of the roles don't do actions directly, but instead give actions to other players (such as 'gifting' someone a doctor or night-kill).

I'm not familiar with the previous Secret Santa game but does Christmas really make players pick role mechanics that are more oriented to gifting? Or do you mean the Mod will usually change it into one? There's more to Christmas than the Red Man, I presume.

[mpolo]

Ho, ho, ho! A new mafia game!

I think the point is that people were likely to include "gifting" in the roles they submitted, just because it is a very Christmas-y thing to do.

We should probably also be watching for post restrictions.

[tastelikecoke]

I think the point is that people were likely to include "gifting" in the roles they submitted, just because it is a very Christmas-y thing to do.

Thanks for clearing up.
On another note, if you are a person maximizing your win, the role you will send must either be hard, or help you in one way or another like a mechanic where the receiving end of the role shall present him with gifts. Submitting gifting roles would also be a desirable (delectable) move I think.

[AngrySquirrel]

It is also quite common that people send in roles that are designed to help themselves aka. Gojoe's fanclub, Brooklynxman's lover and so on to give themselves a better chance at winning. These tends to get a bit subverted though, depending on the mod.

[Gopher of Pern]

People send in such roles? Talk about metagaming.....

So far, with no cult, it seems reasonable that we have a 3-4 player mafia. I doubt 2, because even if powerful, losing 1 member is a huge blow. I suppose independants might be around as well. The line *at least 1 anti-town faction* leads me to believe there is at least one anti-town indy, and I doubt there is a second mafia.

As to role-spec: Gifting I guess would be popular. Probably some 'scrooge' types as well. I liked the postman idea of Misnomers, but thought I better think of something else!

[roband]

Got a good streak going on FIFA right now - spec later!

[Vieto]

I agree that there is probably no other faction other than the mafia + 1 or 2 indies/serial killers. with 12 players, that makes 7 or 8 town, 1 or 2 indies, and 3-4 mafia.

I'm not quite sure that all the roles will be player-specific (such as Gojoe's Fanclub), but it is certainly possible. Regardless, such a role is not necessarily anti-town.

[roband]

I'm sure I'm echoing others here, but initial spec:

12 players.. soooo, 4 scum, 1 pro-town indie, 1 anti-town indie, 6 fairly powerful townies?
Or 7/8 normal powered town, 1/2 indies and 3 scum. Maybe.

Role sent in:

I expect people will have either gone for "what will benefit me, in game" - fun, gifting type roles.
The alternative type of role is "let's make this shit FUN" - so kills, role-redirects and other fancy stuff.

Basically, it could be a bit crazy.

[ConMan]

Basically, it could be a bit crazy.

Isn't that the whole point? The hardest thing in sending in roles is that you don't know how it will react with other roles - so it's up to the mod to work out what happens if two roleblockers target each other, or if someone whose votes count twice gets targeted by someone who cancels votes. Or whatever. Based on previous SS threads that I've read through, and what people are already discussing here, I suspect Day 2 will start with a number of corpses, and some of them might even be ones who were actually targeted by a nightkill.

- This game has one town faction. The town faction wins when all anti-town factions are eliminated.
- This game has at least one anti-town faction. Anti-town factions win when town and all rival anti-town factions are defeated.
- There is no cult. Other recruiting roles may be present, however.

Given that the standard town rule is "you win when all anti-town factions are eliminated", what would it mean to have two town factions? I'm guessing that's just some modwine, or to balance out the "at least one anti-town", especially since nothing else in the game description or my PM explicitly mentions two town factions. Or it could just refer to having town-friendly independents, I suppose.

Given that everyone in the game theoretically has a power role, I'd err on the side of a few more mafia in guessing numbers. Of course, that means mafia have power roles too, but I doubt they're strong enough to justify a small scum team. Robands suggested numbers seem reasonable - maybe 3-4 town with fairly standard or hard-to-make-full-use-of powers, a couple more with something with a bit more kick, 3-4 scum, and a couple of indie. I'm trying to think of how you could have two scum factions (e.g. mafia/werewolf), and it would result in a small town and probably no indies, and wouldn't be too different from just having a couple of anti-town indies anyway.

No two roles or role names are exactly identical.

But of course given the standard kinds of powers that you get in mafia, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a couple of similar roles (normal nightkill versus kill-or-cure, once a day versus one-shot, etc). And frankly I'm expecting the N1 body count to be a bit bigger than just the mafia's one. Assuming, of course, that the mafia has its normal NK, which wasn't explicitly stated in the rules (but is generally assumed unless stated otherwise).

[webby]

Seems like the type of game to have one or more independents. I'd make a guess at three scum plus maybe a serial killer or other anti-town independent, with perhaps a survivor-type role and 7 townies.

Note that the game is nightless - either scum has daychat or they can't communicate at all.

I notice that last year's secret santa game died - hope this one doesn't!

[tastelikecoke]

I expect people will have either gone for "what will benefit me, in game" - fun, gifting type roles.
The alternative type of role is "let's make this shit FUN" - so kills, role-redirects and other fancy stuff.

I first expected people would go for the latter one, like gifting a fun role to play for the lucky receiver of your role.

Factions:
One town faction seems such an odd rule. Its premise doesn't really change anything, since two town factions would really go out of hand. And having been warned about "at least one anti-town faction" makes me worried. What if there's two or more scum factions? It would weaken them, so the mod can make them larger, ... and I just said what ConMan said.
But it sounds to me that "at least" word is just a precaution if a certain role can split the mafia into half, or some other accident. A mod would have gone for "one or more factions" or not mentioning it entirely.

As for the roles, just to be clarified: Are the alignments randomized among roles?
Just thinking, since you can submit any role you want, and that most likely means changing the role to fit alignment, or changing alignment to fit role.

[ConMan]

@webby:
It would be strange for mafia to not be able to communicate, but not impossible.

On a complete side-note, I just thought of a terrible, terrible thing to include in a role that I will try to remember for next year. Completely unrelated to pretty much everything in this PM.

[BoomFrog]

Ho, ho, ho! A new mafia game!

Is that your post restriction?

We should probably also be watching for post restrictions.

Is THAT your post restriction?

Completely unrelated to pretty much everything in this PM.

Lol, what? Dis you just claim you have daychat?

Just thinking, since you can submit any role you want, and that most likely means changing the role to fit alignment, or changing alignment to fit role.

I would imagine that each role was giving a win condition to complete it then the roles were randomly assigned. So the mod decided what powers made up a fair scum team, then randomized who was scum. Like most others, I think 3 scum and a few indies are likely. Probably a SK and a lyncher/jester/survivor.

If there are a lot of protects, scum might have one extra kill power at most, but if there are realitivly few protection, roleblocks, and redirects then I suspect most bonus kills will be in town or indie hands. It depends how many people sent in killing power roles.

[tastelikecoke]

Pedantry eh?

@Boomfrog: yeah, that's the most likely thing, but I want moar information.

[ConMan]

Completely unrelated to pretty much everything in this PM.

Lol, what? Dis you just claim you have daychat?

Haha, no. Replace "PM" with "post" and you'll be right. And funnily, that relates to the idea I had. But that's not important right now.

Sadly, I don't have much in terms of analysis right now. And speaking of right now, I have to rush so I will check back later to see what's developed.

[Misnomer]

Are the alignments randomized among roles?

No

[mpolo]

O.K. It was good to get that clarification from Misnomer, but I think that that's what we were expecting, anyway. If somebody submitted the Christmas Healing Elf, it would be pretty much horrible to get that one as scum. I'm sure some roles could work either way, and some were very likely mafia roles and some were very likely town roles. Some may have been nerfed to make them the alignment that Misnomer needed.

In any case, we are dancing around a taboo topic, so we can probably drop that line for now. (I for one, would prefer not to sacrifice my vote.)

[tastelikecoke]

Okay, that was a waste of bold text.

To make up however, here's a joke:
Why would a mushroom be good guest to invite in a Christmas party?


those that are with him says he's a fun guy.
*runs away*

[ForAllOfThis]

I agree with mpolo that we should be swiftly moving on from the sent roles topic, as losing votes to scum isn't going to help.

I'm going to assume all christmas references are potential restrictions, including mpolo's ho ho ho, and TLC's terrible christmas joke. Seems likely as they aren't directly helping catch scum.

With regards to gifts, we should probably be cautious towards them unless we know who sent them. To start with though, I will probably be accepting them to try to find out more information about the setup (e.g. if scum have a gifting role or not).

I would say I'm getting the towniest vibe from Boomfrog so far for picking up on both mpolo & conmans strange comments, and the scummiest from Conman. This is because off-topic remarks about roles that could have been sent (but weren't) are useless. Even the large post didn't include anything useful, with the speculation being focused on there being 'one town faction' and not making much sense to me. A lot of the other speculation in the large post had already been echoed by previous players so didn't need to be so large.

[AngrySquirrel]

- This game has one town faction. The town faction wins when all anti-town factions are eliminated.
- This game has at least one anti-town faction. Anti-town factions win when town and all rival anti-town factions are defeated.
- There is no cult. Other recruiting roles may be present, however.

Given that the standard town rule is "you win when all anti-town factions are eliminated", what would it mean to have two town factions? I'm guessing that's just some modwine, or to balance out the "at least one anti-town", especially since nothing else in the game description or my PM explicitly mentions two town factions. Or it could just refer to having town-friendly independents, I suppose.

I'm wondering exactly how this is relevant and not just a sidetrack? Or to put it more succinctly "What? "

[ForAllOfThis]

EBWOP: AS just made the point I was trying to make about Conman's post clearer. It's just a slight suspicion

[roband]

Where has this "two town factions" idea come from? I don't get it.

[mpolo]

That one seems to go completely against what is written in the rules. "There is one town faction" seems to be pretty clear to me. I apologize for my little "Ho ho ho!" -- that was just getting into the spirit of Secret Santa rather than anything I had to do. (Would you rather hear "Bah, humbug"?) I will hopefully be able to post something more substantial tomorrow, if not this evening.

[tastelikecoke]

Unlike mpolo though, The Christmas joke is part of my post restriction. I could go on detail on what exactly is my post restriction if one wants it. I'll be cautious though. Someone might be stealing post restrictions, which is terrible.

[Adam H]

Why would someone want to steal post restrictions? I suppose they'd then give them to someone else?

Yeah Conman's post makes no sense. I guess he just misread the rules that he quoted...

I think if there is more than 3 mafia, then there is some sort of recruiting mechanism to convert mafia into town*. 4 mafia is a lot. Also, mafia either has day chat or no chat at all, and I feel like that would make 4 mafia either overpowered or confusing (4 mafia powers with no coordination between them).

*Fah who for-aze! Dah who dor-aze! Welcome Christmas, Christmas Day!

[b.i.o]

I am here, and full of cheer, and wondering where I might
find it.

What, you ask?

Your beautiful mask?
With its depiction of your smiling face?
With its proof of your boundless grace?

No.

Your overflowing cask?
Filled, as always, with good strong ale?
Magically brewed, to make men hale?

No.

I am looking
for the subject
of my task.

The beast. For the feast.
The missing centerpiece.

I know one thing only: it is somewhere to the east.

[Vieto]

I really hope you aren't forced to make all your posts like that... </bah-humbug>

[ConMan]

...

...

I could have sworn that thing said "at least one town faction". I'd better lay off the egg-nog for a while (and no, that's not a posting restriction). But in all seriousness, I think I was just very tired when I wrote that. Still am, despite it being a new day. I will try to post things that actually make sense from now on, but I make absolutely no promises.

Speaking of posting things that don't make sense, while some people are just getting into the spirit there do appear to be some genuine posting restrictions. Tlc has confirmed his, and raised the possibility of someone "stealing" posting restrictions. Would that be like the Grinch stealing presents? Would stealing the restriction also steal some power from your role?

And b.i.o's post just before me is ... very interesting. Especially since it's his first post in the thread. Questionable poetry, hinting at some kind of quest or hunt. For some reason, it made me think of Good King Wenceslas (probably just the word "feast" near the end), but it doesn't scan to that song. Unlike some, I'm assuming that many of the strange posts made so far are more attempts to generate discussion and/or draw out scum in some way rather than being genuine restrictions, but if we take b.i.o's as real then it's presumably also a strong hint to his role. And that means that someone out there now knows who received the role, which is a risky move if you don't know what side they now lie on. Which suggests to me that he either (a) knows, or (b) doesn't care. Which, one way or the other, doesn't seem 100% legit to me.

FoS: b.i.o

I'd be interested in knowing how many of the roles out there are actually Christmassy in theme. It seems like there are generally a mix, and what I've seen so far confirms that. I'm going to state now that my role is not Christmas related in any way that I can see.

Also, sorry for having made a long post that said very little new. It's hard to add to the topic at hand when a dozen other people, most of whom have much more experience at Mafia, have already posted. I tried to at least present my view, and hopefully I will be a bit quicker to the draw in the future so I don't seem so bandwagonny.

[Gopher of Pern]

I don't really understand your FOS Conman. If bio has a posting restriction, he has it, and there is nothing they can do about it. So whoever put that into the role is going to know who it is no matter what (something to think about for next game!) If bio hasn't got a post restriction, no one will know their role.

[roband]

Prediction: we spec a lot, no-one does anything massively wrong or bad, a few people post weirdly (whether the posting restrictions are true or not) and suddenly we're hit by a deadline with no viable lynch on the cards.

We need something to kick this game into action, and I'm not talking about 'those 3 questions'. Anyone got ideas?

[AngrySquirrel]

Unlike some, I'm assuming that many of the strange posts made so far are more attempts to generate discussion and/or draw out scum in some way rather than being genuine restrictions, but if we take b.i.o's as real then it's presumably also a strong hint to his role. And that means that someone out there now knows who received the role, which is a risky move if you don't know what side they now lie on. Which suggests to me that he either (a) knows, or (b) doesn't care. Which, one way or the other, doesn't seem 100% legit to me.

FoS: b.i.o

Again I am forced to ask this question: What?

How does that makes sense? He has a posting restriction, therefore someone must know what his role is, bio does what his posting restriction tells him to do and therefore he must be suspicious? You are not making much sense this game Conman, and I'm unsure what to make of it, but I don't think I like it.

On b.i.o's posting restrictions (which I'm just going to assume it is cause ugh poetry) (also wild speculation warning ahoy!):
First of all; are you capable at all to post without poetry or is this going to be a permanent thing?
I suppose finding the "beast" is going to give b.i.o something. Possibly the power to speak normally or perhaps something more interesting? Mask and cask is not something that rings any bells with me, but I've got the feeling it should, it reminds me of some mythology figure or such.

[mpolo]

roband is probably more or less right about the direction the day is going. Unfortunately, I don't see any way around it. In itself, a post restriction is neither pro- or contra- town, but it might indicate something about the character or nature of his role. I don't see much sign of this in b.i.o's posting, which leaves me pretty open as to his alignment. Perhaps you could argue that such an attention-getting post is more likely a town or independent restriction, as it could have led to an ill-thought-out bandwagon.

[roband]

Perhaps you could argue that such an attention-getting post is more likely a town or independent restriction

Or an attempt to appear so...

Drawing a blank here. Erm..

4 days and 4 hours til deadline. I'll do some thinking and re-reading and come back.

[tastelikecoke]

Adam H: ...Weird, I thought someone has a role of stealing post restrictions in the original Secret Santa. I probably misinterpreted a thing or two. Actually I'm not really worried about losing my post restrictions. In fact, post restrictions are generally just distractions, so ... I'll stop.

It's hard to add to the topic at hand when a dozen other people, most of whom have much more experience at Mafia, have already posted.

Are you sure? Half of the players haven't posted yet when you pressed submit... It's likely you're not creative enough and paranoid about your how scummy look. Added to that, being paranoid about how scummy you look is really scummy. A townie shouldn't be worried on what his coat would look like if it's drenched in blood.