0990: “Plastic Bags”

[bp920091]

As someone who worked for Target during my highschool years and during the summer of my freshman year of college, i can tell you, without a doubt, that cashiers bag groceries faster with plastic bags about 95% if not more of the time.

Every time that i see a person bringing a reusable bag in the checkout line, i cringe a little inside, as they hold up the line for at least 2-3x as long as anyone else. I can usually get a person rung up (Assuming less than 20 items) before they get their credit card through the card reader, sometimes even before they get their cash out. Also, getting people who say, "Oh, i have a reusable bag" AFTER they are done paying, after i am all done bagging, and who insist that i HAVE to put it into a bag, really slows down the experience for everyone in the line.

As Target prides itself (at least my store) on FAST service, reusable bags are a thorn in our side. Hey, even if we have TWO people in line, we get a little nervous, rerouting employees all around the store into open registers as SOON as the line hits 3 people.

I probably rang up around 300 customers a day when i was pulling 40 hour weeks, and if i was to use reusable bags instead of plastic bags, my number would drop by roughly 25-50% if not more.

Remember that the plastic bags have ALREADY been made, and if you really want to do good for the enviornment, you should recycle them.

[The Moomin]

That's more like it. Wit, panache, a reference to xkcdsucks and a stubborn refusal to grasp the point that sometimes the image merely illustrates the alt-text. Keep 'em coming!

"RANT"




WATER

At least he didn't claim the plastic bag was one of the most beautiful things he had ever seen.

I can't help but feel that future archaeologists will unearth these and conclude we were a planet of poop worshippers.

That would be awesome. We should come up with more cool ways to troll future archaeologists.

I did see a comic somewhere where someone asked to be buried with a random animal bone in their coffin as well, as this would really mess with anyone that may exhume the body. I don't know if you can stipulate in your will that you'd like your head to be switched with a horse's though, it'll probably go against the 'being of sound mind' requirements.

[JWalker]

It's too bad that reusable shopping bags are actually more environmentally harmful than the disposable ones. http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 20129.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122238422541876879.html
I guess the emotional high you get for remembering to bring them is worth it, though.

[mattcoz]

This is a big reason why I always go with the self checkout lanes. Another being that they often don't apply discounts when they should, so I have to keep an eye on it.

[Diadem]

What is a reusable bag? I mean, aren't all bags reusable?

Here in the Netherlands supermarkets never bag your stuff for you. They charge for bags as well, usually 25-35 cents. Enough to make most people bring their own. Buying a bag is simple, you just put it with the rest of your groceries.

What I don't get is why people are saying that them bagging your stuff is faster. Having the cashier pack bags is extra time yes? Time he can't spend helping other customers. I get that it's faster if instead of helping the next custumor the cashier just sits around waiting for you to pack your bags, but why on earth would they do that?

[dja]

It's too bad that reusable shopping bags are actually more environmentally harmful than the disposable ones.

Neither of your articles support your position. They both agree reusable bags they are the best choice, if used.

The only criticism I really see is that some people might not use the bags... obviously, that's not going to help.

The "environmentalists" actually have the economic argument on their side - they charge for the wasteful bags to change consumer behavior. When bags are free, consumers / baggers make irrational decisions by using too many bags, ultimately leading to waste. If you price in the waste, then people become motivated to use the reusable bags.

Of course, retailers tend to push consumers toward reusable bags for their own bottom-line. Although bags aren't very profitable, it prevents waste (money) through old fashioned market mechanisms.

[Eebster the Great]

Also I find the groceries stores in Germany way more efficient. I was also in the Philippines, so I can compare Philippines style (the same as in USA I think) and Australian style. Both in the Phill. and AU they pack for you, but in Germany it's still faster and more efficient, because you can take the shopping cart outside the cashier. So you put everything back in the shopping cart, pay, go outside the cashier and put the groceries in your bags or car.

In almost all U.S. supermarkets you take the shopping cart out to your car and then leave them in one of the designated areas of the parking lot.

And the raw meat never goes in with the veggies.

I can't figure out why this would matter.

Ever eaten raw meat?

Presumably the meat is in a sealed container though . . .

[JWalker]

It's too bad that reusable shopping bags are actually more environmentally harmful than the disposable ones.

Neither of your articles support your position. They both agree reusable bags they are the best choice, if used.

The only criticism I really see is that some people might not use the bags... obviously, that's not going to help.

The "environmentalists" actually have the economic argument on their side - they charge for the wasteful bags to change consumer behavior. When bags are free, consumers / baggers make irrational decisions by using too many bags, ultimately leading to waste. If you price in the waste, then people become motivated to use the reusable bags.

Of course, retailers tend to push consumers toward reusable bags for their own bottom-line. Although bags aren't very profitable, it prevents waste (money) through old fashioned market mechanisms.

But a draft report by the Environment Agency, obtained by the
Independent on Sunday, has found that ordinary high density polythene (HDPE) bags used by shops are actually greener than supposedly low impact choices.
....
HDPE bags are, for each use, almost 200 times less damaging to the climate than cotton hold-alls favoured by environmentalists, and have less than one third of the Co2 emissions than paper bags which are given out by retailers such as Primark.
.....
It found that an HDPE plastic bag would have a baseline global warming potential of 1.57 kg Co2 equivalent, falling to 1.4 kg Co2e if re-used once, the same as a paper bag used four times (1.38 kg Co2e).

A cotton bag would have to be re-used 171 times to emit a similar level, 1.57 kg Co2e.
.....
The researchers concluded: “The HDPE bag had the lowest environmental impacts of the single use options in nine of the 10 impact categories. The bag performed well because it was the lightest single use bag considered.”

So you'd have to use your reusable bag ~171 times to break even with the normal plastic bags...

At present, many of the bags go unused -- remaining stashed instead in consumers' closets or in the trunks of their cars. Earlier this year, KPIX in San Francisco polled 500 of its television viewers and found that more than half -- 58% -- said they almost never take reusable cloth shopping bags to the grocery store.

...and 58% of people who own them hardly ever actually remember to use them. In fact, low rate of use is the joke in the comic's alt-text.

But I suppose you're right, that doesn't suggest normal grocery bags are better for the environment than reusables at all in a perfect world. I agree that they would be better if the average reusable bag was used more than ~171 times, but in practice that isn't whats happening at all.

[MathUhhhSaurus]

Also I find the groceries stores in Germany way more efficient. I was also in the Philippines, so I can compare Philippines style (the same as in USA I think) and Australian style. Both in the Phill. and AU they pack for you, but in Germany it's still faster and more efficient, because you can take the shopping cart outside the cashier. So you put everything back in the shopping cart, pay, go outside the cashier and put the groceries in your bags or car.

In almost all U.S. supermarkets you take the shopping cart out to your car and then leave them in one of the designated areas of the parking lot.

Or next to my car -_-

[Alsadius]

I just put the stuff back in my cart, wheel it out to the car, and carry it into the house freehand. (Of course, the places I shop at charge for bags, and I'm cheap, but still)

[Eebster the Great]

Or next to my car -_-

So you're that asshole who always fills the last available spot with a shopping cart?

[whateveries]

This thing, shops charging for plastic bags, well they always have, as the bags are part of the running costs that get folded back into the product price (wait a minute). I wonder how long before we get charged a 'checkout fee' for using the cashier instead of the self serve lines. anyway, the comic was good, certainly better than sirmustapha's whinge about it, I suspect rabbit boy is off his game, I wonder if it is a sign that his real lfe might have become more worthy and less time can be spent on repetive inconstructive^[1] critical analysis.

Spoiler:

^[1]it is not a real word. but you can have it for a dollar

[ijuin]

What is a reusable bag? I mean, aren't all bags reusable?

As others in this thread have said, the bags provided by grocery stores in the USA tend to be too flimsy to survive multiple uses, and a typical example of them will disintegrate if loaded with more than 5-6 kg.

What I don't get is why people are saying that them bagging your stuff is faster. Having the cashier pack bags is extra time yes? Time he can't spend helping other customers. I get that it's faster if instead of helping the next customer the cashier just sits around waiting for you to pack your bags, but why on earth would they do that?

Some stores have a separate bagging clerk from the cashier, who bags the items as soon as they are scanned by the computer. Thus, the bagging is finished by the time the customer finishes fumbling with the cash or credit/debit card. This maximizes the number of customers that can be processed by each cash register. As for why the stores do not simply add more cash registers instead, registers cost money and take up additional floor space that could be devoted to retail items, so reducing the amount of time that it takes to process each customer can be more cost-effective up to a point--ten cashiers and ten bag clerks might be able to process as many customers as fifteen cashiers alone with the cashier or customer bagging the items, but the savings of not needing the five additional cash registers may justify the cost of the five extra employees.

[dja]

So you'd have to use your reusable bag ~171 times to break even with the normal plastic bags...

171 displacements of disposable bags. In my experience, one reusable bag replaces as much as 5 disposables (considering the double-bagging needed for weak plastic).

The energy difference in creation is only ~4-20 times. As long as you keep the bag for some use around the house, you'd probably have displaced that many disposable bags in a couple weeks. (This factor was based on the old cotton bags... retailers usually offer bags made of recycled plastic today.)

Of course, when people speak of the "environmental impact", they usually mean the resources that are saved by not making new bags and the benefit of less waste. They don't usually mean the CO2 from energy production. Clearly, buying a reusable bag and just throwing it away does no good.

However, I've never really seen the shift away from disposable to reusable bags as motivated by leftist-hippies. It seems to be cut-throat competition squeezing everyone to reduce waste, and cost. A flimsy plastic bag will cost you 5 cents... or you can buy a $5 reusable. You're expected to use it at least 100 times to offset the price.

The cost per bag motivates everyone to avoid waste depicted in the webcomic.

[bp920091]

What is a reusable bag? I mean, aren't all bags reusable?

As others in this thread have said, the bags provided by grocery stores in the USA tend to be too flimsy to survive multiple uses, and a typical example of them will disintegrate if loaded with more than 5-6 kg.

What I don't get is why people are saying that them bagging your stuff is faster. Having the cashier pack bags is extra time yes? Time he can't spend helping other customers. I get that it's faster if instead of helping the next customer the cashier just sits around waiting for you to pack your bags, but why on earth would they do that?

Some stores have a separate bagging clerk from the cashier, who bags the items as soon as they are scanned by the computer. Thus, the bagging is finished by the time the customer finishes fumbling with the cash or credit/debit card. This maximizes the number of customers that can be processed by each cash register. As for why the stores do not simply add more cash registers instead, registers cost money and take up additional floor space that could be devoted to retail items, so reducing the amount of time that it takes to process each customer can be more cost-effective up to a point--ten cashiers and ten bag clerks might be able to process as many customers as fifteen cashiers alone with the cashier or customer bagging the items, but the savings of not needing the five additional cash registers may justify the cost of the five extra employees.

In General, from my experience as a cashier, bagging takes maybe another second after scanning an item if arranged properly. Notice how most of the stores that have a seperate bagging person are unionized, sloppy, and generally dont care what you think. A properly trained cashier can greet, scan items, bag said items immediately after, while talking to the customer, arranging payment information and directing this process all in a VERY short time, generally less than 90 seconds for 15-20 items. I know this, as i have trained over seven cashiers to do this just as effecively, if not moreso. it takes about 2 hours of repetition (to learn the basics of bagging, payment, and general customer interaction) with a trainer standing over the cashier's shoulder and about 2-3 weeks of 4-8 hour shifts to get them up to speed.

The extra conveyor belt method, where someone scans an item and it goes to another person to bag it does not actually save time, it just costs the store more money as they have to stand around more often than not. it has the APPEARANCE of saving time, and works great for unionized stores (whose purpose is to get the largest membership base they can (bigger base = more revenue = more money to spend on lobbyists = more favorable union laws)), but it is actually a bad thing for the store, as they essentially double their cashier salary expense for little if ANY gain.

Properly organizing cashiers (both the physical stand and the employees) and training them well is essential for a well run business. Having worked at several stores, Target, QFC, and Safeway, i have seen the implications of both reusable bags, paper bags, cashiers bagging, and seperate baggers. In general, unless you have more than 6-8 cubic feet of items in a usual transaction (so in other words, NOT costco), having just one cashier bagging items is the most efficient way to do it.

[SirMustapha]

I wonder if it is a sign that his real lfe might have become more worthy and less time can be spent on repetive inconstructive^[1] critical analysis.

It's mostly the bitter realisation that Randall doesn't give a shit about criticism, constructive or not.

His fans do, though.

[Red Hal]

As, it seems, do his detractors.

[Plasma Man]

I much prefer the reusable fabric bags to plastic ones. The fabric ones are bigger, stronger and easier to carry. I rarely have a problem remembering them - I carry a shoulder bag with me most of the time, so I just tuck them into that.

[Webzter]

Also I find the groceries stores in Germany way more efficient. I was also in the Philippines, so I can compare Philippines style (the same as in USA I think) and Australian style. Both in the Phill. and AU they pack for you, but in Germany it's still faster and more efficient, because you can take the shopping cart outside the cashier. So you put everything back in the shopping cart, pay, go outside the cashier and put the groceries in your bags or car.

In almost all U.S. supermarkets you take the shopping cart out to your car and then leave them in one of the designated areas of the parking lot.

And the raw meat never goes in with the veggies.

I can't figure out why this would matter.

Ever eaten raw meat?

Presumably the meat is in a sealed container though . . .

Until you find out that wrapped chicken wasn't fully sealed / the seal separated / your box of super fruity O's tore the side... and then you have chicken juice all over the lettuce. Many meat markets have small, clear plastic bags for the express purpose of putting meat in them. Oh, and plenty of produce departments have similar bags for putting your loose produce in. And, to be doubly safe, one can still put those bags in separate bags, just in case

edit: *most produce and meat departments I've shopped in the midwest of the usa (as likely this isn't a universal fact)

[Plasma Man]

I usually just put the raw meat (or anything else that might leak) near the bottom of the bag. Generally my bagging layers are:

Bread, eggs and other fragile stuff.
Most fruit and veg.
Meat, root vegetables.
Cans, bottles and other sealed stuff that isn't going to be damaged by being squashed or have stuff drip on it.

[averageJon]

optimal bag packing is an NP-complete problem, but remembering to bring your reusable bags with you is just plain hard.

[Diadem]

In General, from my experience as a cashier, bagging takes maybe another second after scanning an item if arranged properly. Notice how most of the stores that have a seperate bagging person are unionized, sloppy, and generally dont care what you think. A properly trained cashier can greet, scan items, bag said items immediately after, while talking to the customer, arranging payment information and directing this process all in a VERY short time, generally less than 90 seconds for 15-20 items.

Wait, what?

Here in the Netherland an experienced cashier takes maybe 10 seconds to scan 15-20 items. The cashier grabs and item from the conveyor belt, moves it across her desk, slows down very slightly at the point where the scanner is located, and drops it on the outgoing conveyor belt. It takes less than a second per product. The customer then bags his purchases themselves. Usually the outgoing conveyor belt area is divided into two parts, so even if the previous customer is slow in packing their bags the next customer can be helped without their groceries getting mixed up.

How does it work in the USA? You're not a poor country, surely you guys have bar codes and scanners too right? So how can it take that long to scan a few products?

[Fire Brns]

How does it work in the USA? You're not a poor country, surely you guys have bar codes and scanners too right? So how can it take that long to scan a few products?

Unfortunately we have lazy people who think they are better than the job chatting it up with half the people who come through. I have to record inventory numbers in a notebook and I am still faster than most cashiers with a bit more courtesy too.

I love plastic bags, they remove oil from the ground which it will naturally leak from. Also I have 9 pets so they come in handy. My problem is the bagger who puts the ground beef, bread, and lettuce in the same bag; I don't want e-coli!

[carrotsandstuff]

After bagging, or "sacking" as my boss called it, for three years, I can tell you that most of the people that bag your food hate those reusable bags. Even though we don't get tips, or if we do it's 53 cents,( some lady literally slipped 53 cents into my pocket once) my store gave everybody a performance bonus if things were doing well. The faster we got through a customer the higher our chances of a bonus were and the bags slowed us down.

[Eebster the Great]

I have hardly ever had this experience of "lazy baggers" taking a long time to bag shit. Typically I find that by the time I have finished putting items on the belt and paying, the bags have been full and sitting there for a while already, even if there is no bagger and the cashier had to bag them him or herself.

[HermanVonPetri]

A properly experienced baggage clerk helping the cashier is a beautiful thing. It saddens me that they are becoming a thing of the past. When stores care to train an monitor how well they are packaging your items then it does significantly accelerate the checkout experience for large purchases. Although, it isn't immediately obvious for purchases that maybe only require six or seven bags.

In my area it is frequently the case that families save all their grocery shopping and do it all maybe once or twice a month. This leads to customers with shopping carts overflowing and in some cases more than one full cart to be checked out. They also often burden the cashier with a stack of coupon clippings or sales ads. There are three major grocery stores in this area: Wal-mart, Target, and Kroger. Wal-mart uses a conveyor belt for you to stack your items on before they reach the cashier and a revolving baggage carousel that the cashier places the items in after scanning them. The baggage carousel can hold six full bags before the cashier or customer has to remove the full bags and place them in the cart. However, if the cart is so full that you are still putting things onto the conveyor belt then this means you need a second empty cart which is never offered or available. Full bags are stacking up with nowhere to go, the conveyor belt is overloaded, and the cashier has to hand bags over to you that will sit on the floor or under your cart until enough space is freed in the cart. Additionally, they typically don't have any bags suitable for oversized items and have to walk around the counter to scan and/or place the item into your cart.

Do not stand behind any customer with a full shopping cart at Wal-mart. You will succumb to the proton decay of the universe before you are able to leave.

Target has a similar system, except that instead of a baggage carousel there is a bagging table at the end with a couple of bag racks for you or the cashier to bag up at the end. There is more space for large purchases, but the cashier only has one bag available at a time and thus can't prep several kinds of products at once. Kroger still uses baggage clerks most of the time and it is a flawless system. The cashier removes your items directly from your cart (which is immediately at his/her right hand), drags the item across the scanner and places it on the moving conveyor belt. The baggage clerk has three or four baggage racks that he or she can use to sort and arrange multiple types of items for the best fit and convenience. When a bag is full he places it in a second empty shopping cart that he brought up beforehand. A good baggage clerk has finished bagging your items and placing them in the cart before the cashier is done scanning the coupons.

Additionally, canvas bags have a distinct advantage in that they usually have a stiff, flat bottom that makes an excellent platform for a properly stacked bag of goods. You can easily get two or three times as many products into one.

[Pfhorrest]

Some stores do have a self-checkout (e.g., Meijer), but it takes about twice as long to check out that way, because you are not the cashier and don't spend forty hours a week running items across a scanner and tucking them into bags and consequently haven't attained the same level of deftness. Also, paying takes several times as long in the self-checkout, because you're using a slow, badly-designed touch-screen interface; whereas, a cashier in a regular checkout lane would be using a traditional keyboard-based register.

I've never had any trouble with the touch-screen interfaces around here. They are a bit slow, but they can be significantly faster if you realize where you can multitask while they're processing. I usually approach them club card already in hand and swipe that first to start (which skips the language choice screen and "please scan your first item / have you scanned your club card?" prompts), then scan and bag my items, swipe my card through the terminal and select debit or credit and enter pin or zip as necessary *first*, as it's telling me to scan additional items or press OK to pay; *then* press OK to pay, select the card option, and wait for it to go through prompting me for each step I already did on the terminal, by which point my bags are in hand and the only reason I'm still standing there is so my receipt that I don't even want doesn't spit out onto the floor when the next person comes through. In other words, if you know the steps (which you should if it's your regular grocery store), you an usually have them all done before it even gets around to prompting you to do them, which saves a lot of time compares to doing them as you are prompted.

I find that I can usually get through a self-checkout register faster than I can get through a manned checkout line, but that's because manned checkout lines usually have actual lines at them, whereas I can usually walk right up to an open self-checkout register (probably because most people seem to have trouble using them). Of course checkout at a manned register goes faster because there's two people doing the work; the clerk scans and bags my items while I process payment at the card terminal: most stores here allow you to swipe your card and enter pin/zip if applicable before checkout is finished, then present you with an a total to OK and sign once the clerk pushes a button on their end, so while the clerk scans and bags while I swipe and type and put my card away, then they push a button and I push OK and we're done.

[whateveries]

It's mostly the bitter realisation that Randall doesn't give a shit about criticism, constructive or not.

to work out why Randall might not give a shit about crticism levied at his comics from within the forums, consider, perhaps, he would be more likely to seek this kind of thing from his peers and family than,um, you or I.
As for the Forum, I wonder if the little dataminer insidce randall has an ongoing chart of hit and miss topics, determined not by the content of the forum, but by the volume the exact phrase is lost and sloshing around somwhere in my grey matter, but the 'any exposure is good exposure' notion might be in play here.
For Instance lets look at the discussion generated by a comic about bagging groceries, and assuming the volume of discussion it is a pretty good indicator of quality of topic, and perhaps execution.

Unfortunately not having the time to sort and qualify the sub threads, and simply taking few moments to recall a few, there are those discussing best bagging practices (there seems to be an interestingly high proportion of proud cashiers on the boards), there are those discussing the enviropolitical aspect, there has been a few cross cultural comparisons and ignoring the off topic scats, such as this, and it so far has managed to get to four pages, and for a relatively innocuos topic, I would say, is all the critical analysis required from this forum. Keep on keeping on I say

[LeMayzing]

Remembering your reusable bags is easy: either write it down at the top of the shopping list every time you start a new one, or--if you are like me and you've created your own "standard" shopping list so you can check items that you need--add it to the top of the list.

[Diadem]

I always find these differences between countries fascinating. Especially the way customs interlock. How one difference between countries leads to other differences. For example here in NL nobody does shopping for an entire month at once. It wouldn't be practical. Almost everybody does shopping by bike. You can take a few bags with you on a bike, but not as much as you can with a car. Of course bikes aren't practical in the US, the roads aren't built for them, and even if they were these megastores like Walmarts are generally much too far away from your home. Our supermarkets are much smaller, but located much closer to home. If you live in a city you will definitely live within 5 minutes (by bike) of a supermarket, usually within 2. Which also means there's no point in doing all your shopping at once, those few minutes you save by having fewer trips aren't worth it.

So there's lots of differences, but they are all interrelated. One change leads to the next.

One thing I wonder though. If you shop for groceries once a month, how do you keep stuff from spoiling. Milk, Bread, Vegetables, Meat, they don't stay good for a full month. Well I know you guys don't have proper milk (a terrible terrible shame. You don't know what you're missing), and if I'm not mistaken Americans don't eat a lot of bread. But surely you eat vegetables and meat? Does every American own a gigantic freezer? But even then you can't freeze everything.

It's interesting to discover and compare these differences. I'm genuinely curious how you guys manage to only shop for groceries once a month. I simply can't imagine doing that myself.

[Biliboy]

No one has mentioned Aldi, which is I believe a german discount grocery that's come to the US. There are no bags at all unless you bring your own or buy their cloth bag. We use their empty cardboard boxes, which are left in the aisle for customers, to store the food in the car.

The cashier (who gets to sit down the entire time, which is awesome for them) takes your items off the conveyor, scans them, and puts them into an empty buggy sitting next to him/her. You pay, take the buggy, and your old buggy is left behind waiting on the next customer. The buggies have an ingenious lock that operates with a quarter, to get a buggy, you unlock it from the rack outside with a quarter, and to get the quarter back you need to replace it... there are absolutely no buggies randomly sitting around the parking lot, and no guy who's job it is to move them around.

It's gotten to the point that my family hasn't seen a paper bag in years, and we call the little plastic bags "walmart bags" because that's the only place we get them from anymore.

[Tormuse]

I worked at a Wal-Mart for several years and bags had always been free, but as of a few years ago, here in Toronto, it became mandatory for all retailers and grocery stores to charge at least 5 cents per bag and I find the difference in people's bagging habits rather astounding! Some people get really uppity about having to spend 5 cents for something they used to get free, and I find it a bit absurd that they'll get upset over such a small expense right after spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars on their merchandise. Now, almost everyone uses reusable bags here, when before, almost no one did, and the few people who are willing to pay the 5 cents per bag, try to cram as many items as humanly possible into each one so that they use as few bags as possible. Supposedly, the money from this new charge is going toward some environmental protective initiative; I don't know how much of the money is actually used effectively to preserve the environment, but the dramatic decline in disposable bag usage probably more than makes up for any inefficiency there.

As a side note, our current mayor is talking about repealing the 5 cent bag policy. I hope he doesn't. Our society is incredibly wasteful when it doesn't have such policies in place.

[SirMustapha]

to work out why Randall might not give a shit about crticism levied at his comics from within the forums, consider, perhaps, he would be more likely to seek this kind of thing from his peers and family than,um, you or I.

Now that would be mature. "My mama said this comic is good, so it must be!!"

As for the Forum, I wonder if the little dataminer insidce randall has an ongoing chart of hit and miss topics, determined not by the content of the forum, but by the volume the exact phrase is lost and sloshing around somwhere in my grey matter, but the 'any exposure is good exposure' notion might be in play here.
For Instance lets look at the discussion generated by a comic about bagging groceries, and assuming the volume of discussion it is a pretty good indicator of quality of topic, and perhaps execution.

Considering the front page of the comic itself, I'd say Randall is far more worried with the sales from his store. I remember when Randall only did some subtle advertising when there was some new item on the store, but now, every time you load the page, a different "ad" appears.
I don't question Randall's decision to earn money from his art, but one thing is painfully evident: his ability to draw comics hasn't evolved one iota for years, but his ability to sell and advertise never stops growing.

[Eebster the Great]

One thing I wonder though. If you shop for groceries once a month, how do you keep stuff from spoiling. Milk, Bread, Vegetables, Meat, they don't stay good for a full month.

People who do big shopping only rarely (which is not usually considered a good practice, and is mostly done by people living on monthly paychecks) still buy some things like meat and dairy every day or couple of days, but most of their packaged food and non-perishables and a huge variety of non-foodstuffs they buy all at once.

Well I know you guys don't have proper milk (a terrible terrible shame. You don't know what you're missing), and if I'm not mistaken Americans don't eat a lot of bread.

Uh, you are mistaken on both accounts. Americans do have "proper milk" (unless you think milk is only "proper" if coming from some mammal other than cows or goats) and do eat a lot of bread.

But surely you eat vegetables and meat? Does every American own a gigantic freezer? But even then you can't freeze everything.

Yes we do, and is that a challenge?

On a serious note, you're clearly right, but nevertheless some stuff will keep for a very long time in the freezer (or freezers).

[AvatarIII]

No one has mentioned Aldi, which is I believe a german discount grocery that's come to the US. There are no bags at all unless you bring your own or buy their cloth bag. We use their empty cardboard boxes, which are left in the aisle for customers, to store the food in the car.

The cashier (who gets to sit down the entire time, which is awesome for them) takes your items off the conveyor, scans them, and puts them into an empty buggy sitting next to him/her. You pay, take the buggy, and your old buggy is left behind waiting on the next customer. The buggies have an ingenious lock that operates with a quarter, to get a buggy, you unlock it from the rack outside with a quarter, and to get the quarter back you need to replace it... there are absolutely no buggies randomly sitting around the parking lot, and no guy who's job it is to move them around.

It's gotten to the point that my family hasn't seen a paper bag in years, and we call the little plastic bags "walmart bags" because that's the only place we get them from anymore.

We have Aldis in the UK too, but none near us so I couldn't tell you how they operate, but the "no bags and use leftover cardboard" boxes thing is familiar to me as that is that they do at a similar supermarket called Lidl, (Swedish I believe).

Nearly every supermarket in the UK uses the money lock things these days, in the UK they are always £1, although the supermarket I normally shop at, Tesco, does not use them and it really annoys me that I see messy and abandoned trolleys everywhere especially since the car-park is really big!

[Diadem]

One thing I wonder though. If you shop for groceries once a month, how do you keep stuff from spoiling. Milk, Bread, Vegetables, Meat, they don't stay good for a full month.

People who do big shopping only rarely (which is not usually considered a good practice, and is mostly done by people living on monthly paychecks) still buy some things like meat and dairy every day or couple of days, but most of their packaged food and non-perishables and a huge variety of non-foodstuffs they buy all at once.

Guess that makes more sense. But in that case if you're gonna have to make a trip to the supermarket a few times a week anyway, why not get whatever your need in non-perishables as well, instead of getting those in once a month in a big trip? Seems you lose the one big advantage of buying everything at once (saving a lot of time) if 'everything' isn't quite everything.

]Well I know you guys don't have proper milk (a terrible terrible shame. You don't know what you're missing), and if I'm not mistaken Americans don't eat a lot of bread.

Uh, you are mistaken on both accounts. Americans do have "proper milk" (unless you think milk is only "proper" if coming from some mammal other than cows or goats) and do eat a lot of bread.

In many countries (such as France, Germany, Spain, etc) milk is sterilized, instead of pasteurized. This extends shelf life but (imho) kills its taste. I thought the US was one of these countries. I'm wrong? Glad to hear it. Sterilized milk should be considered a crime against humanity.

As for bread, I can't find any data on bread consumption per capita (My internets, my internets, why hast thou forsaken me), but I thought the US was really into cereals and stuff?

[HermanVonPetri]

A further clarification about those families that choose to make a few large purchases a month rather than several smaller ones.

Often, it is mostly boxed, canned, "economy sized", or otherwise nonperishable items that get stockpiled like this. Buying paper towels in 12 packs, and a half-gallon of mayonnaise for example. In my experience, freezers and refrigerators in America are quite a bit larger than often seen in Europe and so people really do keep perishable items for a lot longer. It's not unusual to freeze unused meats for weeks or months. Many families even have a second freezer in their garage or utility room for that purpose. These families are often of the "buy in bulk" mind, trying to take advantage of the fact that buying a 24 pack of sodas is usually a little cheaper per soda than buying a 6 pack. They also are often clipping coupons that provide a discount, but only if you buy 2x or 3x quantity of the product. Also causing them to buy more at one time to get the savings. So they buy more upfront and shop less frequently.

Also, interestingly organic milk here is sterilized while the regular stuff is pasteurized. The "organic" cows aren't typically given antibiotics like the regular herds are so the organic milk has a higher microbial load than the regular milk. This means the organic milk has to be heated much more for longer to kill everything, sterilizing it. Pasteurization just reduces the load of most harmful bacteria but it will spoil sooner. Organic milk keeps for up to two months in proper conditions.

[Eebster the Great]

Guess that makes more sense. But in that case if you're gonna have to make a trip to the supermarket a few times a week anyway, why not get whatever your need in non-perishables as well, instead of getting those in once a month in a big trip? Seems you lose the one big advantage of buying everything at once (saving a lot of time) if 'everything' isn't quite everything.

Yeah I agree it's annoying, but I think the explanation is either that they save by buying in bulk (e.g. if you go to Costco this is pretty much necessary) or that you don't get your paycheck until the end of the month.

[carolineee]

I'm from Germany. As some people already said, there's nobody packing anything for you in grocery stores and the like. Only bookshops and clothes stores ask you whether you want a bag or even gift wrapping.

As I don't have a car, I do my shopping by bike (or rarely on foot) and those flimsy plastic bags we were talking about just don't survive a trip on the bike, even if it's just two blocks away. So, I've gotten used to my canvas bags, which are by now several years old (I do wash them!). However, I do put loose veggies or the like into flimsy plastic bags (those are for free in the veggie-area of the store) before they even meet a scale or the conveyor belt. Those bags can't even be reused for trash because they tear when you put anything heavier than five tomatoes in one, so I put them in the recycling bin and buy trash-bags separately.

There seem to be other differences, too. Over here, all the cashiers are always sitting (they couldn't even pack your bags if they wanted to, from that position) and most people just put their stuff right back into their shopping cart and pack their bags away from the cashier station, either at the packing table or in the trunk of their car. Some also keep folding plastic boxes in the back of their car for that purpose.

[cerrita]

The local Wal-Mart recreates panel four every time I go there. I bought a nice felt hat a few weeks back, and the cashier tried to put it in a bag by itself. I put a stop to that nonsense and just wore it out of the store. Most baggers know what they're doing, but a few just confuse me.