Secret Santa 2011 - Game Over: Mistletoe and Wine

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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby mpolo » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:58 pm UTC

This is getting to be a bit of a pickle. We had so much weirdness early on that we haven't really done much scum hunting. Roband pointed this out a couple of days ago, of course. Due to time, I am going to review just the ones in my "preview box". That will give me at least an overview of a few days.

Adam has wasted a lot of time asking about ties. But I suppose we need to know… He has presented a couple of questionable ideas, but I'm reading it as sounding out the ideas more than advocating bad strategies. I'll put him "neutral" for now.

BoomFrog seems no different than usual. Somewhat aggressive, towny feeling.

Roband has been very active and provocative. Probably town.

ConMan admits that he's having trouble coming up with content, and his "content" post is pretty non-committal. A lot of posts, but little real "meat". Some scummy lean.

ForAllOfThis has had a couple of decent posts, but is quieter than normal. Neutral-ish.

AngrySquirrel has posted very little. For her, this could be a bad sign.

tastelikecoke has posted a few things, but not a lot of real scum-hunting. Neutral to scummy.

b.i.o confused us a lot at the beginning, then went coherent, and then disappeared. Neutral -- I would have put him in a more towny light if he hadn't disappeared.

Vieto disappeared on Tuesday. Not much to go on.

I think everybody else is lurking, or I didn't get anything from your post.

With the approaching deadline, I'm going to put a vote on the most suspicious person from this quick read-through. I do hope to be back to review this vote tomorrow, though.

Vote: ConMan
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby AngrySquirrel » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:34 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:I just like to think of ways to break the game.

This is going to make it very hard for me to remain unbiased towards Adam H.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby ConMan » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:59 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:Vote: ConMan


Hoo boy. I was worried about that, even if it does mean I get to say "mpolo, OMGUS". Still, I don't exactly blame you and you have tried to look at everyone's contributions so you're definitely getting a townie lean from me - and I certainly hope that when you look a little harder you'll be more comfortable putting me in the "confused" basket than the "scummy" one.

It almost seems like the easy way out to say that Adam is sounding scummy to me, but ... well ... he's looking scummy. Not just from the bad ideas, but from the way he reacts when people call him out on them. It may well just be his playstyle, and I know that so many times in these games someone says something stupid on D1 that gets them lynched even though they're town, but - like in most of those games - there's nothing much else to go on.

It's things like this that twerk me the wrong way:
Adam H wrote:When I've played in real life we tend to make the rules so that if we don't get a consensus in votes then the mod can just end the day with a NL. But that does get the group good information - because no one is willing to switch votes even though they know that no one will be lynched if they don't. So with that in mind, it just rubbed me the wrong way how most of you immediately went to the party line (NL = no information) without seeming to actually put thought into it.

Sure, if there's a NL due to tied votals, there's a lot of information in that, but there's a huge difference between that and actually voting NL, which you seemed to be advocating. If we wind up on NL because people voted for NL, then less than half the players actually voted for a player - so there really isn't much information you get from that. If, though, we reach a tie and hence it's NL, then potentially everyone could have placed a vote on someone, and if anyone who got voted for turns up dead the next day then you can start putting 2 and 2 together.

I know if we're lynching people who say or suggest stupid things then I'm up the top of the naughty list, but I know that my ramblings are just plain stupidity whereas I feel like Adam's are really muddying the waters. As a result,

Vote: Adam H

I'm not 100% happy with the vote, but so far he's been the only one to really stick his head out far enough for it to be chopped off. So unless something happens soon, I suspect his goose is cooked (and if there are going to be any more puns like that, I think I'll leave them to tlc).
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby ForAllOfThis » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:36 pm UTC

Unfortunately I've had quite a bit of work on and have been lending the free time to posting in Amys game. Quick/Short post to let you know im still here!

Ok I'm mostly caught up! I think as its been pointed out, Adam knew a NL was a bad idea and I think that is apparent from his posts (afterwards). TLC on the other hand all but suggested it wouldn't be a bad idea and looked like he might even be influencing the game towards a NL (although not directly voting for it). Its a little surprising then that Adam gets voted for suggesting a NL, then saying "I wasnt serious" but TLC doesn't get voted although seemed to be quite serious about it.

Vote: Tastelikecoke

for, from my PoV, trying to seriously influence the game towards a NL. It's also a slight pressure vote as there hasn't been a lot of content from TLC, and I would like to see a vote with the deadline approaching fast.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby Misnomer » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:12 am UTC

Adam H wrote:What happens with tied votes?

Does hammering end the day? If not does it end the votes or can we unvote if someone hammers?

Tied votes = no lynch

Hammering does theoretically end the day. However, because vote alterations may be in effect, you are free to continue playing past the 'hammer' until I come online and declare it a lynch


Votals:

Adam H (2): Roband, ConMan
Roband (1): BoomFrog
ConMan (1) Mpolo
Tastelikecoke (1): ForAllOfThis

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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby webby » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:21 am UTC

My problem in this game, having properly read back over the thread, is that most people to be acting how they normally do and that there haven't really been any events to change this. This is what makes day 1 hard.

I've only really played with conman once (Dr Who doesn't count :P) and on that basis I'm going to say that he's going to look scummy until he gets a hang of this game, then later in the game I think he'll look like what his alignment is. That's why I'm not a fan of 'lynch the new player'.

TLC is also looking scummy, but not acting much different to usual as far as I can tell.

Vieto hasn't posted enough to give us any real info.

AngrySquirrel has posted very little to no useful content. (And yes I am aware I'm being a hypocrite here).

GoP has only two posts, not much there yet either.

b.i.o is having fun with the role given - not convinced the poem is a good idea given whoever gave the role now probably knows who it is. But I'm not sure that it's necessarily scummy.

mpolo - I think mpolo is town. I think the analysis post looks pretty good, if slightly non-commital (but that's pretty normal for mpolo). Don't think I agree with the vote, but understand the justification.

FAOT - don't see much wrong here - probable town.

roband - I'm a little cautious here - first posts felt like townie roband, later posts - especially the Boomfrog stuff - doesn't look so great. Neutral overall, but will keep my eye on.

Adam H - odd ideas, a little all over the place, but looks a little better now. One of those players who I always think looks scummy, so I try to stay away from voting for them unless they look extra scummy.

Boomfrog - not sure about him yet - probably because he's not quite as active as usual. I will be interested to hear his interesting idea.

That leaves me with the problem of who to vote for. TLC and Conman are easily the most scummy-looking players, but I'm not convinced they're acting differently to how they would as town. I'd bet there's scum between Vieto, GoP and AngrySquirrel - they've all been posting, but I don't think their content is very good. Semi-randomly, because I don't think there's much chance of a bandwagon forming quickly, and in the hope that they'll come back and post more.

Vote: Vieto

I'm going to vote for GoP next if Vieto gives good content and GoP doesn't. :P
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby tastelikecoke » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:12 am UTC

@FAOT: Yes I've been more serious about going for a No-Lynch. And true enough, it gave you a knot in the eyebrow.

However, You're right, FAOT, I'm suggesting a no lynch, But I'm totally not plotting it to influence the town to vote for it. Unlike Adam H I'm quite seeing it as a good idea since it once worked before, whether that's bad or not from your Point of View.

and Mpolo, I think you're the one who's been echoing the lines all along. (And my heart's beating fast, I dunno why.)

First, a reply to me about gifting roles. Then next, to how useless my clarification is. Then how futile the situation we have in Day 1, in reply to roband.

Then a little more after that, you show up with an Analysis, the only thing that actually renders you good at scumhunting. It's good that you have an analysis or something, but really, you're not any better than Conman.
vote: mpolo

But here's another one, webby. With one post, and another post of analysis. And what's about me looking scummy? I presume it must be coming from FAOT's suspicion that I'm pushing for a NL? What about me being the likely scum candidate?
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:53 am UTC

Alright people, let's do this:

Spoiler:
1.Vieto - Almost no actual content as Webby pointed out. - scummy

2. AngrySquirrel - Steering Conman back towards the land of sanity, but otherwise little contribution. I'm sure she is just biding her time, but that doesn't help the rest of us judge her. If she were in my position she'd want to lynch her for lurking D1 too. - scummy

3. GopherofPern - Again, almost no content - scummy

4. b.i.o - lots of very resonable disccusion, and an interesting role. - Neutral

5. mpolo - Actual scumhunting and votes Conman for okayish reasons. - Very slightly townie

6. ConMan - Votes AdamH for presenting bad ideas. However, I know I've already told Conman in Back to Basics that Wine is better then no content and it's clear that AdamH has caused there to be more content then their would have been otherwise. Lynching AdamH because he is the "only one to stick his neck out" is the worst of all possible reasons as sticking you neck out is a townie thing to do. - Scummy

7. ForAllOfThis - Resonable reason to vote TLC. - Very slightly town

8. roband - My "interesting idea" was to keep my vote on Roband and see if a bandwagon would form. I think AdamH's is astondingly good at looking scummy D1, and Roband hasn't played with him before I belive. So I don't actually blame Roband for voting for AdamH, although I do think he is mistaken. And he has been pushing for things to keep going, where as scum I think he'd let the day quietly linger and die. - slightly townie.

9. Adam H - Stirs the pot with bad ideas, but willing to stick his neck out. - townie

10. tastelikecoke - What do you expect to happen if we NL? When has NL been a good D1 stratagy before (besides a deathy)? I think there's clearly better people to vote for the mpolo, at least he did some analysis which is more then most. The last post knocks TLC down to - scummy

12. webby - Decent analysis, but he's good at that. - neutral


Town
Adam H
mpolo
ForAllOfThis
roband

Neutral
b.i.o
webby

Scummy
tastelikecoke
ConMan
Vieto
AngrySquirrel
GopherofPern

Unvote
Vote AngrySquirrel


Until I see some more content from her. I could easily go back to Roband though, and of course agree with webby that more content from GoP and Vieto is needed.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby tastelikecoke » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:15 am UTC

@BoomFrog: geh. You guys would probably mark as the guy who I suggested the NL, so I wouldn't go roundabout it either. I see how it's a bad idea, I just want to get the ball rolling, to see how people would violently react when such an orthodox solution is revealed.

But I'll repeat it again: I'm genuine about asking the reasons why NL is bad, because I thought it's not completely bad. As I saw from the latter posts I'm convinced it's a horrible thing and I should never suggest it again.

Well then, I'll do an analysis soon too, as BF suggested my scumdar's off (and that it's scummy that my scumdar's off.) Just gonna feed my rabbits for now.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:02 am UTC

Again, sorry guys, busy week, yadda yadda, see my post in the other game :)

TLC is bugging me. Arguing NL is generally a bad move, for both town and scum, as it puts a target on you. You don't argue it looking for a NL, you do it looking for reactions. That could make it either townie or scummy, so at the moment I'm thinking neutral.

Boomfrog: Votes for a lurker (of which there are a few.) That lurker happens to be AS, and looking at their posts, they really haven't posted anything. but back to boomfrog, he tested roband, and seems to be acting very boomfrog townie.

Webby: only the 2 posts, same boat as me I guess. Their latest is a long one, but ends up going for the lurker vote on Vieto, which is fair enough. The rest of their analysis post is typical webby. Neutral.

FAOT: going after TLC hard, for both the NL and for lack of other content. Pretty sure TLC is one of the bigger contributors though. Rest of their posts seem normal though. neutral.

Conman: I like their latest post. Gives a good reason for voting for Adam. Previous to that they ask for any vote shenanigans. I know this is sorta a PYP, but this sounds a bit like fishing to me.

AS: They have posted a few times, but very short, and are almost completely devoid of content. They say they will have a hard time finding Adam not scummy, (we all do), goes against NL (pretty general), pokes Conman for his post, which I did beforehand, and has some idle speculation on bio's poem. Goes after another mistake of Conman's. Overall, no real content, aside from questioning Conman, basically just reacting. Scummy.

My flights about to leave, so i'll have to cut this short.

Vote: AngrySquirrel

Pending my further look through when I have time at home.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby roband » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:17 am UTC

So BoomFrog, you previously had me in the 'scummy' third of your analysis and voted for me - now I'm in your 'town' third and you're voting for someone else - but you'd happily come back and vote for me?

I think we've found a scumster who's finding it hard to keep track between applying pressure to townies and making sure his analyses look similar to players he KNOWS are townies... i.e. others have put me down as 'townie', so for BF to not do the same could look suspicious, so he puts me as 'townie' but then says he'd still consider voting for me?

Am I voting for you already? I forget.

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Vote: BoomFrog
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby mpolo » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:05 am UTC

I can see the arguments about AS -- frankly, her failure to post much content is making me nervous. I didn't vote for her on the basis that I'd rather not throw everything on a lynch justified by lurkage, especially not when I had a busy week at work (as TLC mentioned).

My gut feeling on TLC probably moved a smidgeon more towards "scummy", but I'm going to assume that this is more an OMGUS reaction, and will try to discount it.

On the other hand, ConMan's last post and the defenses he is receiving from other quarters has the necessity and rightness of my vote less certain. I'm still not 100% sure on him.

I had convinced myself yesterday evening that it was already Friday evening (imagine my surprise when I had classes to teach this morning…), so we do have a little time to make a final decision that I thought I wasn't going to have.

I'll leave my vote for now, since there is no danger of a bandwagon and I still have some suspicion. I'd be willing to vote for AS (or another lurker) if we don't have something more solid by the time I have to "lock in" my vote.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby roband » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:09 am UTC

For the record, I don't think AS has been completely inactive-lurkery. From memory, she's made posts, they've just not said much.
Looks like she's trying to coast along with the game.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby Misnomer » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:24 am UTC

Votals:

Adam H (1): ConMan
Angry Squirrel (2): BoomFrog, GopherOfPern
ConMan (1) Mpolo
Tastelikecoke (1): ForAllOfThis
Vieto (1): Webby
mpolo (1): Tastelikecoke
BoomFrog (1): Roband

~30 hours until deadline. 7 votes needed to lynch... perhaps...
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby AngrySquirrel » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:40 pm UTC

I don't discuss issues that don't interest me. I don't like encouraging discussion on how to break the game or nag the mod for clarification on every little thing, so when that's going on I will keep quiet. There's also still too many players alive for me to single anyone out.

My notes on players so far:
Vieto - Standard behaviour. Neutral.
GopherofPern - First person to use a smiley. Votes for me for lurking, but sees webby as neutral even though they've (in my opinion) not contributed much more. Gut says scum, brain says town.
b.i.o - posting restriction, but otherwise nothing out of the ordinary. Leaning on town.
mpolo - still annoyed at him for last game. Otherwise seems on standard behaviour. No opinion.
ConMan - His mistakes seems mostly grounded in confusion. Neutral.
ForAllOfThis - pushes. Good vibes.
roband - seems a bit off, I'll keep an eye on him this game, but I can see a couple of reasons why he seems that way to me which doesn't necessarily have to do with the game.
Adam H - Water muddying and quite pointless. Scummy feel.
tastelikecoke - Seems confused. Quite hung up on the no lynch. Then again I don't think scum would be daring enough to poke their head out by suggesting NL as a serious option so more town seeming than scum for now.
BoomFrog - Annoying, so probably pro-town.
webby - 2 posts. Second post has useful content. Okay I guess. No real opinion yet.

Everyone I feel seem neutral, scummy or that I have no opinion on yet, are players I can consider voting for today. Mainly though, Adam H has really bugged me with his muddying of waters this game so my vote will for now go to him.

Vote: Adam H
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby tastelikecoke » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:58 pm UTC

First off: restriction.
Behold, a virgin!
Virgin! Do not be afraid.
You will find
his bosom
in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.


And back to the normal broadcast. I finished my analysis.
Here's what I found.
Spoiler:
FAOT: Generally helpful to town. Much suggestive about general scumminess of each player. townie.

Vieto: As pointed out, there's not much to him lately. He did gave specs on the mafia size. Lurky.

mpolo: Usually replies to queries of the players, which although helpful, it would be neutral for me, but mpolo's analysis shook up the game quite fairly, and the deadline's so so near. that's commendable. townie.

AS: Pointed out Conman's weird conclusions but very sparse. the one liner post on Adam H means she didn't really intend to talk a lot. lurky.

GoP: Not much posts. Only the analysis is what I'll look on. Generally disagrees with the town's current opinion I guess. Neutral since he's not aiming to lurk.

roband: Pushed Adam H, angry at how he suggests bad ideas. Hmm, being pushy even though the evidence isn't substantial isn't exactly a scum tell. If roband is partially just pressuring Adam H it'll be a townie tell. On the other side is scum distancing, and I don't think Adam H's actions agree with that. Townie to me.

Conman: A lot of fluff, most what would be considered overthinking. It's quite likely to be scum's attempt to look townie using thicker paragraphs, and that's not a good thing. I'm thinking that it's more of the paranoia to make content. Neutral to scummy.

webby: The analysis is pretty much comprehensive, but I think some parts are too vague. Neutral.

BoomFrog: Arrogant at first. Then bickers with roband, which is the oddest part.
He votes roband because roband has a very poorly justified vote. But isn't that vote a much more poorly justified vote? Afterwards his conversation with roband shows that his argument is falling apart. Arrogant to scummy.

Adam H: He suggested bad ideas. Scum tell because it might be a move to misdirect the town. Like Conman, he's also utterly confused. But I'm amused he pursued the NL idea, He's neutral except for one thing: His bad ideas. Personally for me, these odd ideas don't tell anything unless people started going for it. Neutral.

b.i.o.: Has Disappeared recently, but he comments and suggest to the situation, similar to mpolo's. But not telling about the post restriction? I'm sure you wouldn't lose your vote there. Neutral to lurky.

I'm really off about mpolo. I guess I'm full of rage because I'm being labelled scum again and I don't want to blame myself.
unvote
Now, who should I vote? The analysis gave me a larger cloud of doubt. And upon further pondering, nothing seems to be resolved to my mind.
I think I should go for Conman. His actions doesn't sit well for me, though it's a very weak feeling.
vote: Conman
I have a lot of time in my hands, so I might go for a better option later.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby Adam H » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:27 pm UTC

AngrySquirrel wrote:I don't discuss issues that don't interest me. I don't like encouraging discussion on how to break the game or nag the mod for clarification on every little thing, so when that's going on I will keep quiet.
...
Adam H has really bugged me with his muddying of waters this game so my vote will for now go to him.
Well, I think the first bit of this has manifested at least in this game as bad town play, at least on D1, and using it as justification for a vote is a scum move. What are you interested in discussing?

If you don't discuss how the game is breakable, you might break the game on accident (That game where we could lie-detect and truthify statements comes to mind). And I'm very sorry, misnomer, if it felt like I was nagging you. I felt like your answers to my questions will have an impact on the game, which is why I asked them...

Hmmm mpolo also seems to think that I've "wasted a lot of time talking about ties". WTF? Did I accidentally ask twice or something? I don't see anything other than that one question...

ConMan wrote:I know if we're lynching people who say or suggest stupid things then I'm up the top of the naughty list, but I know that my ramblings are just plain stupidity whereas I feel like Adam's are really muddying the waters.
What's with the muddy water metaphor? It's not like D1 waters are usually crystal clear. I'm sorry if you feel like I distracted you away from important issues.

That tlc "post restriction" is interesting. Is it worth talking about?
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby mpolo » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:04 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:Hmmm mpolo also seems to think that I've "wasted a lot of time talking about ties". WTF? Did I accidentally ask twice or something? I don't see anything other than that one question...



I was referring to a single kind of rambling post that might make someone think that it was a content post, when the content really summed up to simply asking a question. A minor thing, but could indicate a tendency towards "active lurking". Note, that I'm not accusing you of active lurking, the particular post just kind of stuck out when I was skimming.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby Adam H » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:22 pm UTC

Who rambles, I ramble? :shock:

Well that post when I asked about tie votes, the question was very much an afterthought. My point of posting to respond to something about NLing. But I guess I can see how someone not as in tune with my stream of conscious would think that my entire post was about tied votes.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby b.i.o » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:02 pm UTC

Sorry, am on the tail end of a business trip and have not had enough time to devote to this game. Going home tomorrow, so that'll be better.

At this point, most of the arguments seem to be blaming various people for active lurking...which isn't exactly wrong, it's just that it applies to something like two-thirds of the people in this game. The rest of the votes seem to revolve around people suggesting stupid things (like no-lynches), which I honestly don't think are terribly scummy. Anyone playing mafia on this forum who knows that a NL is a bad idea for the town knows that it's never going to happen anyway, and that suggesting it is just inviting votes. That means that the only people who suggest it are the ones that don't know it's not a good idea, which means that while I still think it's an awful idea, I don't think that voting for the people who suggested it just because they suggested it is a good idea either.

Of course, after saying that I'm going to go be a complete hypocrite and vote for Vieto, who's really actually scummy active lurking guys! I promise! Only two posts from an experienced player that say absolutely nothing do actually make me feel a bit more suspicious of him than anyone else at this point.

vote: Vieto
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby Vieto » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:36 pm UTC

Hey guys, sorry for being inactive. I had 3 exams this week.

Anyways, here is my analysis:

AngrySquirrel - confused by conman, question's bio, opposes NL. Makes shorter posts, but explains non-participation in recent post. Gut says neutral-scummy.

GopherofPern - prior to his big post this page, he had posted less than me. Ends up voting for AS, who is coming off as slightly scummy. Overall, GOP is coming off as townish to me.

Bio - has a post restriction, which doesn't say anything about his alignment. Appears to be trying to sound somewhat neutral on issues, and hasn't really pressed his own opinion that much, with the exception of NL statement, which is common knowledge. Hasn't posted since, so he's coming off as slightly scummy to me.

mpolo - mpolo has been fairly active in the game, and has posted about most of the topics. He initiated the vote on Conman, which combined with his activity is somewhat townie, though he doesn't appear to have too strong of opinions on any players yet. Townish.

conman - Posted a lot from the get-go. First off, his FoS of Bio for a role restriction seems somewhat unfounded. While he later unFOSed, he still appeared to be on the attack of BIO for a bit, but eventually came off it. His vote on Adam H is interesting, as Adam H had recently (and not unjustly) received a lot of attention from his suggestions. It's quite possible that conman was trying to draw some attention away from himself. In short, I can see conman being 1 of 2 cases: he is either scum, or he is not very articulate in his analysis. I'm rocking back and forth on this, but for now I'm going to say scummy-neutral.

after rereading my notes, I actually think conman may not be as scummy as first thought.

forallofthis - moderately active. Is at first suspicous of conman, but changes his mind on that issue. Same story with Adam H. Votes for TLC on the premise that TLC appears to be trying to cause a NL. Coming across as townie, but i may change that after reviewing TLC.

roband - seems to think of conman. initially votes for Adam H due to his bad ideas (I'm going to say neutral). Then he started going back and forth with boomfrog, where I think he adaquately defended his vote, which was one of the first votes in the game. His vote on Boomfrog seems more justified than OMGUS. Likely town.

Adam H - Low content posts until his mass-roleclaim/NL suggestions, but of which are generally scum strategies, and he later says he is against a NL. I'm not sure how to read this, because if he knew that NL was a bad idea, he shouldn't have suggested it, and he only stated that he was against the idea once people told him it was a bad idea. After being voted for by Roband, he spends a lot of his posts being very defensive. He appears to be very scummy to me, although I'll withhold full judgement, as boomfrog has stated:
BoomFrog wrote:Not to mention Adam does "scummy" things like this D1 pretty much all the time.
.

Tastelikecoke - varied gamespec, we start seeing some content in the middle of the second page. I can't seem to get a read on TLC, as he has been somewhat mimicing general consensuses a bit. I find TLC's vote of mpolo interesting, and I had pinged mpolo as town, but I'm not sure it leads anywhere.

Boomfrog - moderately active, where most of his activity centered around attacking Roband's vote. While he does seem a bit townie by initially questioning Roband's vote (which is all fine and good in itself), it is curious that he would think Roband as townish, yet saying that he would return his vote maybe, and I'm a tad concerned about his bandwagon idea. Overall: maybe town, maybe scum.

Webby - 2 posts: some role spec, and his analysis. I would say that his vote for me was justified, but given that prior to that post I had posted 3 posts, I'm not so sure anymore, which is kind of scummy.


I need to think a bit before I cast my vote, but I will cast it sometime tonight.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby Vieto » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:39 pm UTC

edit: ninja'd by bio, so he technically has posted since. However I will counter that while I am an experienced player, I'm not a particularly good mafia player. (though yes, I have been doing something of an active lurk, I will admit)
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby Adam H » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:59 pm UTC

Shit. I hate that I'm 3rd on this, but this will be my last post before deadline so I'm going to have to

Vote: AngrySquirrel

For the reasons stated in this post. Basically, pancake is quiet, and justifies it because pancake doesn't like to talk about things that don't interest pancake. And I know that pancake's scumdar isn't working, so that helps a bit.

(I spent valuable 30 seconds of my life looking up pancake's gender, and dammit I'm going to make use of it! :) )
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby b.i.o » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:16 pm UTC

I'm going to keep my vote where it is (I don't feel like writing out my diatribe against all-player analyses again), although I may switch it over somewhere else before day's end, since it seems likely either AS or Adam H is getting lynched today. My preference is for the latter. I don't really see the argument against AS, and Adam H is annoying me.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:51 am UTC

I absolutely made a mistake in my summary about Roband. I am getting a scummy vibe from Roband in general and had him listed as scummy originally when I wrote my conclusion. However, in my final review of the post I realized that he was the one who kickstarted discussion back up so I changed him to townie, but I forgot to change my summary.

I'm feeling good about vieto for pointing it and slightly suspicious of GoP. It's easy for scum who know I'm town to overlook a mistake.

Anyway I'm not very satisfied with AS's response. AdamH is really a wonderful scum magnet. Has AS ever played with AdamH before?
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby AngrySquirrel » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:24 am UTC

Adam H wrote:
AngrySquirrel wrote:I don't discuss issues that don't interest me. I don't like encouraging discussion on how to break the game or nag the mod for clarification on every little thing, so when that's going on I will keep quiet.
...
Adam H has really bugged me with his muddying of waters this game so my vote will for now go to him.
Well, I think the first bit of this has manifested at least in this game as bad town play, at least on D1, and using it as justification for a vote is a scum move.

I'm not using it as a justification to vote, and I don't like it when my reasons are being misrepresented. I am voting for you because 1) I think it's more likely that you are scum than most others at this juncture. And 2) If someone muddy the waters more than they need to be muddied (and especially if it's on purpose), it's better to get rid of them early, before they contribute to too much confusion, than wait until the more crucial parts of the game.

Adam H wrote:If you don't discuss how the game is breakable, you might break the game on accident (That game where we could lie-detect and truthify statements comes to mind).
It just doesn't interest me. I don't see why I should have to discuss something I don't care about. Note here, that I'm not saying noone else should discuss it. You discuss whatever you feel you want to discuss, just don't expect me to engage in discussions where my only genuine comment is a "meh".

Adam H wrote:What are you interested in discussing?

Votes, vote-patterns, behaviours, who is not behaving as they usually do? Who is behaving as they usually do? Who is avoiding mentioning eachother's names? Who seem coordinated (no nights means scum is already talking, no?) and so on. It doesn't really matter. When I have something to say I will say it, but I don't play on other people's premises.

BoomFrog wrote:Has AS ever played with AdamH before?

No.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:14 am UTC

Bleh, this feels like regular AS. I don't like how she plays D1 generally, but its is normally the way she plays as town.

Just for your consideration AS AdamH is playing the way he normally plays. He is at worst neutral because its hard to read him.

Unvote

Until I have some time to find a batter target.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:19 am UTC

Just in case the deadline sneaks up on me, I'm going to trust my earlier assessment.

Vote TLC

I should be on before deadline to change if needed.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby b.i.o » Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:24 am UTC

My quick unofficial vote count has Adam H, AS, ConMan, and Vieto tied at 2 votes apiece. AS, tlc, and ConMan are not pinging me especially much, the deadline is approaching, and I'm going to be on a plane for most of the rest of the day, I'm going to switch my vote over to the other person in the group I feel okay voting for.

unvote
vote: Adam H
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby tastelikecoke » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:30 am UTC

I see lurkers are saving themselves through an all-out player analysis. But on second thought, it's not really bad. Still going for Conman, Although BoomFrog's OMGUSing my guts out.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby Misnomer » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:53 am UTC

Votals:

Adam H (3): ConMan, AngrySquirrel. b.i.o
Angry Squirrel (2): GopherOfPern, Adam H
ConMan (2) Mpolo. tastelikecoke
Tastelikecoke (2): ForAllOfThis, BoomFrog
Vieto (1): Webby
BoomFrog (1): Roband

Deadline in 5 hours
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby mpolo » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:04 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:Shit. I hate that I'm 3rd on this, but this will be my last post before deadline so I'm going to have to

Vote: AngrySquirrel


Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much…

Seriously, the whole pointing out "I am third and third is scum but I'm not scum but yet I'm third" seems weird. On the other hand, I was considering a vote on AngrySquirrel myself.

Unvote

This because I am much less sure of his scumminess. I need to place a vote, though, and I am on the fence on a few people.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby mpolo » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:08 pm UTC

Oops. I actually wrote all that several hours ago and forgot to hit submit. With the deadline, I'm going to have to vote.

Vote: Adam H

As some have said, he generally seems "spiky", but there are at least a couple of things that seem scummy enough to vote for, at least on day one. I may still be able to review this, so this would be the time for an impassioned defence!
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:57 pm UTC

Okay I don't like the way this lynch is forming up on AdamH.
Unvote
Vote Angry squirrel


Wish I had time to say more but good night. I think AdamH is town.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:58 pm UTC

Conman and bio I urge you to change your vote. I believe AS and mpolo are scum.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby Misnomer » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:03 pm UTC

That's the deadline folks! If you haven't sent in an action, tough you're too late.

The Lynch and Night will be processed shortly
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 1 - Do They Know It's Christmas?

Postby Vieto » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:06 pm UTC

gah, I just woke up expecting deadline to be 5 hours from now :/
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 2 - Winter Wonderland

Postby Misnomer » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:37 pm UTC

Votals:

Adam H (4): ConMan, AngrySquirrel. b.i.o, mpolo
Angry Squirrel (3): GopherOfPern, Adam H. BoomFrog
ConMan (1) tastelikecoke
Tastelikecoke (1): ForAllOfThis
Vieto (1): Webby
BoomFrog (1): Roband


The last traces of the sunset were now long gone, and it was time for Adam H to die. However, as he was slowly led up to the scaffold, Angry Squirrel piped up:

"Hey! This is a boring way to do things! Let's liven things up a bit!"

Reaching into her coat pocket, she produced a strange-looking die, which she proceeded to roll. It came to a rest with a crude drawing of a bottle showing on top.

"Yay!" cried Angry Squirrel, "We'll play spin the bottle!"

The townsfolk looked at each other in confusion, but before they could object half of them were sat down with Angry Squirrel, who had picked up an empty bottle of mulled wine and was now spinning it. Round and round it went, until it came to a stop at BoomFrog.

"Congratulations BoomFrog! You win!"

Suddenly Angry Squirrel grabbed the bottle by its neck, smashed it on the tabletop and stabbed BoomFrog viciously with the broken end. The townfolk managed to pull her away, but it was too late - BoomFrog's injuried were too severe, and he was dead within minutes.

Rounding on AngrySquirrel, the townsfolk made as if to lynch her when suddenly a booming voice echoed around the town, carried by the wind.

"WHAT ARE YOU ALL DOING UP AT THIS TIME???"

The people of Xkcdia looked up to see Old Man Winter standing on top of his fortress, looking utterly ridiculous in his dressing gown and night cap.

"SOME OF US ARE TRYING TO GET SOME SLEEP! AWAY WITH YOU ALL!"

Old Man Winter pointed one of his long, crooked fingers at the townsfolk, and suddenly a snowstorm came from nowhere and lashed Xkcdia, sending the townsfolk running to their homes. But they weren't all to remain there...


The next morning, the townsfolk gathered in the square to examine BoomFrog's body more closely. He had on him a knife, and various toy catalogues.


BoomFrog is now dead. He was The Stressed Father (Compulsive Killer), Town

Despite the activities of the night, nobody else was dead however. Perhaps the baddies had decided to leave the town alone?

Somehow, they didn't think that was the answer...

11 players remaining - 6 to lynch (probably).

Provisional deadline set for 4pm GMT, Monday 27th December
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 2 - Winter Wonderland

Postby AngrySquirrel » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:23 pm UTC

Alright, that's the biggest prompt to claim my role I've ever gotten.

I'm a gambler. If I find a lynch unsatisfactory, I can choose to gamble and someone else than the lynch target will be randomly killed off instead. If I go 3 days in a row without gambling, I die. I figured it would be better to get this over with on day 1, than wait around until a point where I'm stressed and we actually have a good lynch-target. I also suspect there's a chance I might accidentally end up killing myself with this.
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Re: Secret Santa 2011 - Day 2 - Winter Wonderland

Postby Vieto » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:01 pm UTC

again, sorry for not voting. I was going to cast a vote for Adam H, if that matters, but I didn't wake up in time. Turns out it didn't matter.

Ok, so we learned 2 things; Angry squirrel has the equivalent of a semi-mandatory lynch veto/randomizer, and boomfrog was town. Also, there was apparently no mafia kill, which means they either don't have a kill, or they targeted boomfrog.

As for AS's role, it doesn't say too much about pancake's alignment. It is somewhat unsatisfying that we got the equivilent of a NL from this, but AngrySquirrels reasons appear valid enough for now.
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